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Red Bulls address drug suspensions

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                                                                            Photo by ISIphotos.com

Just a day after Jon Conway and Jeff Parke were suspended for 10 matches for violation Major League Soccer’s substance abuse violation, the Red Bulls addressed questions about the situation. Head coach Juan Carlos Osorio and captain Juan Pablo Angel addressed the media about the suspensions. Two people who did not address the situation were Conway and Parke. Both players were absent from the team’s training session in Montclair on Friday and neither has yet to make a public statement regarding their suspensions.

Here are some of the highlights from the interviews:

Red Bulls head trainer Rick Guter stated that substance the players tested positive for, androstatriendione, is not tested for by all American pro sports leagues (the NBA and NFL do not specifically test for it). Androstatriendione is a metabolite of the steroid boldenone, meaning it can trigger the production of boldenone in the body. Guter also said that the supplement that led to the positive test for androstatriendione did not have androstatriendione on the list of ingredients.

There have been conflicting reports on what exactly Conway and Parke tested positive for. The clearest explanation is that they both tested positive for androstatriendione, which is a metabolyte of the steroid boldenone. The players did not test positive for boldenone.

Osorio said the players were notified of the failed test more than a month ago but the team was not told about it until Tuesday. The players did not notify Osorio, who was informed of the suspension on Tuesday night. He stated that he was disappointed at not being told and that the team would have handled the situation differently if it had known about the suspensions.

Guter also said that the players did not come to him with the supplements in question. Players have come to him in the past to inquire about supplements and players have access to a hotline they can call to find information on supplements. Guter also said the team has been drug tested as a group three times this year. The team will not identify the supplement that caused the positive drug tests.

Osorio confirmed that Danny Cepero will be starting in goal on Saturday. Cepero has beaten out Terry Boss and Caleb Patterson-Sewell for the starting nod.

Red Bulls player union representative John Wolyniec stated that team officials are not supposed to be notified of failed drug tests until after the appeals process and punishment is determined, so the players kept the information to themselves as part of the standard procedure regarding failed drug tests.

Wolyniec stated that players are given lists of the actual chemical substances that are banned, and not supplemental products that may contain the banned substances.

Juan Pablo Angel on the suspensions:

“We were very surprised that Jeff and Jon tested positive,” Angel said. “As a team, we want to first of all offer them our support. We’re all behind them. I’m sure we’re going to miss them because they’re very important members of our team and very important characters in the dressing room.”

Here is the the lineup we are likely to see on Saturday against Columbus (or at least the first-team lineup that went through the paces on Friday:

—————Kandji————Angel————

————————-Magee——————–

Van Den Bergh—————————–Mbuta

———————–Stammler——————

Goldthwaite—-Jimenez—-Boyens——-Leitch

————————-Cepero———————

Jorge Rojas, Dane Richards and Gabriel Cichero did train, but not with the first team.

“We’ve got to respect and understand the drug policies of MLS,” Angel said. “I think it’s a wake-up call for all of us to be more careful of what we put in our bodies.”

Comments

  1. Such a horrible crime, buying supplements at a drug store. Besides, it was probably the trainer, not the player, who bought it.

    I like how the MLS probably knew about Quaranta’s drug problem, but didn’t do anything about it. Take a few supplements though…now that deserves a punishment.

    Parke and Conway are scapegoats. Plain and simple.

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  2. I mentioned Mark McGwire yesterday because the situation is similar. Androstenedione wasn’t banned by MLB or the NBA at the time (1998), but it was banned by the NFL and NCAA.

    My point is, there are sometimes going to be differences between major sports organizations over what’s banned or tested. The fact that some currently do not test for androstatriendione might be interesting — but in the end, it has no relevance for MLS players.

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  3. Anybody else staying away from Team Disaster for this game? Osorio has got to have an ulcer by now. Conway is toast now to RBNY. Parke is probably on his way as well. We’ll see what happens over the winter. Playoffs or not my expectations are nearly zero for this team this year. Only thing to look forward to is the incoming DP. Hope Angel stays!

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  4. Why does everyone keep questioning why they didnt tell the team? Can you even read?

    “Red Bulls player union representative John Wolyniec stated that team officials are not supposed to be notified of failed drug tests until after the appeals process and punishment is determined, so the players kept the information to themselves as part of the standard procedure regarding failed drug tests.”

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  5. I think Conway and Parke owe the team and fans an apology for the lamest of lame excuses. “I bought it at GNC” is so weak that I’m embarrassed for RBNY.

    Every team’s training staff should have a list of all the approved supplements right next to the training room door. If the supplement isn’t on the list, you don’t take it. Simple as that. If there is a new supplement you want to try you run it by the trainer who does research and either approves or denies.

    The only folks that get caught in the “but, but I bought it at GNC” lie are the athletes looking for something “extra” – basically, cheaters.

    Conway and Parke were looking for something beyond the approved supplements. They found it, and were subsequently found out.

    Conway and Parke were cheating and they knew it.

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  6. …..So T.O. and Marbury and take GNC products, but soccer players can’t??? Good God Almighty!…….

    Posted by: Rich Bull NJNY | October 17, 2008 at 02:59 PM

    Really? You’re going to argue that the NFL and NBA policies are the stadard MLS should hold themselves to, seriously? Have you seen the NFL / NBA freaks of nature? Those are clean sports alright……

    They cheated or f’ed up! No excuse I’m glad the league threw the book at them.

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  7. Wykell, just a few points.

    1. It does NOT say that the players are prohibited from telling the team or that they’d be suspended or fined. Ives column says that the team isn’t required to be notified until the appeals process is over and punishment decided.

    2. You’re right about Bobby vs. Barry Bonds. But no, I didn’t mean Marion Jones, I did mean FloJo who held a very public press conference to deny claims of using performance enhancing drugs. I used those two examples because those were both individuals who there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that they deliberately doped and that it definitely helped them. So two guys who make a lot less money, aren’t stars, didn’t have sudden upgrades in performance, and their story is that it’s accidential, don’t you think it makes sense to go public? Provide an explanation.

    3. You misunderstand my point about the confusion. Sure, there is a supplement that you can buy over the counter that supposedly could generate a positive test result. And as I said, I don’t rule that out. But from the info that the team has released, there is still apparently some gaps or confusion. The players have had a month to put together a “it was an accident, we took this additive and the ingredient isn’t on the label” story. And maybe it’s true. Or maybe they deliberately used performance enhancing drugs.

    Soccer is a physically demanding sport. I can absolutely get looking for supplements to boost endurance, recovery from injury. I bet half the players in the league do legal things to try to help their bodies (taking vitamins, getting massages, taking additives, special diets). But only TWO players get dinged for drug test results? And even then, not on the first or second tests earlier in the year but the third one (which was probably sometime in mid-August)?

    Also, to put this in perspective, my understanding is that 3 track and field athletes received 2 year bans for taking an over-the counter additive (Novedex XT) which does exactly what happened in this instance (Androstatriendione as a metabolite of boldenone). So first, that tells you that this is serious stuff. Second, I would think that Rick Guter (as a former USMNT trainer) would definitely be up on this.

    Could this just be an innocent mistake? Possibly. But for a bunch of reasons, I’m much more cynical about it.

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  8. @ Rich Bull NJNY: the reason there are questions about JPA and Rojas earlier in the post is because Ives was putting the info up as it came in. The original post did not include JPA’s comments.

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  9. the reason everything is so secretive is because the substance they consumed is Red Bull energy drink. If it ever got out that Red Bull was on the banned list it just wouldn’t be very good for MLS ownership for obvious reasons.

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  10. Some of the early questions (Rojas, JPA)were answered in Ive’s post….read it again!

    I still say the punishment is WAYYYY too harsh, and these guys need to appeal the appeal! It’s soccer, not the freakin Olympics. I mean, Andro? So T.O. and Marbury and take GNC products, but soccer players can’t??? Good God Almighty!

    And the timing caould not be worse! Playoffs start in two weeks.

    RBNY/ Metros: screwed yet again.

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  11. I’ll blame both players for at the very least making a stupid mistake and not clearing it with their trainer, but I can’t blame them for not informing the team. Look at it this way:

    If YOU were facing a supension from your job and were going through the appeals process, would you inform your boss right away? Knowing that he would definitely bring in a “temporary” replacement that would most likely compete with you for your job upon your return? I know I wouldn’t… and I think most people who say otherwise are fooling themselves.

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  12. John, your “thinking” is rather flawed based on all the actual “facts” that have been reported on – here’s my thoughts on yours…

    1. Both players knew about this a month ago and didn’t tell the team. That’s bad.

    — They were following league rules, and if they DID tell the team or JCO, they could have been subject to further fine/suspension.

    2. Both players could have gone public and pleaded their case. How many times have you see a Bobby Bonds or FloJo or someone else try to make that argument: “I didn’t know”?

    — Two parts to this one. It’s Barry Bonds, not his father, and Marion Jones, not Florence Griffith-Joyner. Neither of those two now deceased persons were ever accused of taking performance enhancing drugs. Part two of this answer is this: look where that got those two – Jones is stripped of her medals and BOTH of them are facing possible jail time. Going public is a GREAT idea…

    3. We don’t know the details about what product probably because the team doesn’t know all the details. And, to be a cynic here, if someone did decide to try to boost their performance, do you think they’d admit it?

    — The team might not know all the details, but if there was an appeals process, the league surely does, and would state whether or not this particular banned substance was something that could or couldn’t be bought OTC in a nutrition store. Their official statements lead us to believe that it actually IS an OTC supplement that they were purchasing, not something they were trying to hide from anyone

    4. If you look at the timing, if they were notified a month ago, that means they had to have been tested no later than mid-August and possibly earlier. That was right about the time when JCO was basically saying “we’re turning over this roster–I’m bringing in new players.”

    –Because Conway must have been terrified about losing his starting position….

    I for one, am pissed – pissed at the league and a little pissed at the players – if there was an appeals process, and the league didn’t just half-ass it, it means the players had to have been at least slightly complicit in what they were doing, and didn’t ask enough questions. When you are getting paid to play a sport, it becomes your job to make sure you are in compliance with the rules. Granted, these rules might be super difficult, but come on now, we’re paying you to PLAY soccer, the least you could do would be to run that particular supplement by a team trainer familiar with the substances list rules…

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  13. Seems the punishment of 10 missed games and 10% of salary is harsh given the supplement did not list ATD as an ingredient.

    Perhaps the players were wrong not to ask Guter about the supplement before taking it, but I think it’s reasonable for a person to believe that a supplement doesn’t contain something if it’s not listed in the ingredients.

    On staying quiet, it’s clear from Wolyniec that the players followed policy and the club and Osorio were informed at the appropriate time. I wonder though, if they have already had an appeal, why was the ruling so harsh given it doesn’t appear they took the steriod deliberately or could reasonably have believed it was in the supplements they were taking.

    I’m not against MLS making examples of players (I can’t even count how many times they’ve mentioned “setting precedents”), it just sucks that it’s our players and just before the play-offs. MLS should be more lenient in cases of accidental use vs. cases of deliberate use — I’d definitely like to know where they stand on the accidental vs. deliberate question.

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  14. It’s tempting to make this a case of “poor players accidently taking a supplement and without their knowing end up violating a technicality.” Here’s my thinking:

    1. Both players knew about this a month ago and didn’t tell the team. That’s bad.

    2. Both players could have gone public and pleaded their case. How many times have you see a Bobby Bonds or FloJo or someone else try to make that argument: “I didn’t know”?

    3. We don’t know the details about what product probably because the team doesn’t know all the details. And, to be a cynic here, if someone did decide to try to boost their performance, do you think they’d admit it? We’ve had claims of people eating poppy-seed bagels when they flunk their drug tests, claims of over the counter medicine or blaming the trainer. I’m guessing that the team can’t give us much detail because the player’s story doesn’t make a lot of sense at this point. They’ve had a month to come up with an over-the-counter supplement as an excuse.

    4. If you look at the timing, if they were notified a month ago, that means they had to have been tested no later than mid-August and possibly earlier. That was right about the time when JCO was basically saying “we’re turning over this roster–I’m bringing in new players.” If I was a guy who wasn’t a star, I could see the thinking “okay, maybe I need something to try and give me an edge.” Or if a guy was gimpy and felt he needed to get healthy right away or run the risk the coach would bring in someone new (Cichero?) to compete for his spot.

    So while I don’t rule out the “we’re innocent and ignorant, it was just a supplement” position, the combination of the timing (both when they could have last taken it and flunked the test) combined with the failure to notify the team makes me think that Conway and Parke may not be so innocent in this one.

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  15. Conway and Parke are part of this team and I feel that they wouldn’t knowingly go out and hurt the team. Have they made a mistake, sure, but it seems to be a honest one. And for not telling the team…I work union and in order for it to succeed you need to adhere to its policies and rules (Woly’s comments about the players revealing the notices). The RedStarMetroBulls are all about futility, embrace it and revel in our ability to screw things up (with or without help!!!) Success in Futility!!!

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  16. Joe K: All true. An honest mistake could easily have been made. But the players’ silence and the team’s near-silence make it impossible to know. All we do know is that they’re the first MLS players who ever tested positive. Assuming they’re not the only ones who ever took a nutritional supplement, then they were either very unlucky, or misinformed, or reckless.

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  17. bootsy — according to wolyniec (read the full article), they’re not allowed to tell the team or team officials, including osorio, until the punishments have been meted.

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  18. Paul: the list is probably many many pages long, and contains the banned chemicals, each long names, varying by a few affixes here and there. Androstatriendione is NOT androstendione (mcgwire’s drug, now federally illegal).

    Likewise, each supplement has a list of chemicals a page long. cross referencing, while obviously necessary, is a long process and prone to mistakes. The players union should take it on themselves to generate the list of good and bad supplements.

    Further, they could have asked some pro trainer: which supplements are good and are legal in the MLS, and the trainer only knew other pro sports rules, where ATD is legal.

    sure, there are mostly bullshit arguments, and ultimately you can’t get out of your responsibility, but you can see how a MISTAKE could be made.

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  19. Ives: Not that it matters very much at this point, but I’m still confused over what the players’ claimed mistake was. They tested positive for androstatriendione, which is a metabolite of (that is, it is the results of your body’s processing of) a steroid, boldenone. What was in the supplement they took? What did its label say? What kind of advice or guidelines about such supplements does RBNY give the players? All this goes to the question of how foolish or reckless (or, if they knew what they were doing it and did it anyway) duplicitous the players were.

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  20. What about Rojas and Richards? Are they not getting back in time from their games with the national team or simply not getting enough practice time this week?

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  21. Not sure, maybe it was an honest mistake. If it was such a mistake they should have brought it up to their coach. It definitely does not look like whatever the drug was it was helping them on the field.

    It is good to see the MLS has a pretty strict policy on drug use.

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