Photo by ISIphotos.com
When rating the players for the 2009 Confederations Cup, the newly-created Castrol Player Rating Index has taken into account all aspects of player activity, providing us with what is supposed to be a great way to measure the effectiveness and quality of the players participating. Based on the names at the top of the list you would think the system works pretty well. David Villa, Fernando Torres and Kaka are at the top, and deservedly so.
When you move just a notch below those names, however, you'll find a player whose presence has to be considered at least somewhat surprising. That player is Clint Dempsey.
The U.S. national team midfielder received the second-highest combined score for the tournament to date among midfielders, second only to Kaka. Dempsey's rating is the eighth-highest in the tournament, with Michael Bradley the next highest rated American at No. 10.
This development makes us wonder: Have we been too hard on Clint Dempsey?
I say we because I count myself among the many who thought Dempsey looked sluggish and ineffective for the first 255 or so minutes of the Confederations Cup, right up until he moved up top and delivered the U.S. national team's most important goal, the third score in the 3-0 win against Egypt.
After the U.S. team's 3-0 loss to Brazil I posted saying that it had to be assumed that Clint Dempsey would be benched because of fatigue and there were very few objections to the suggestion. No one has ever questioned Dempsey's qualities. He remains one of the team's top attacking players, and we saw against Egypt that he is still capable of his moments of brilliance, but for long stretches in the tournament he has at least appeared to fade and not have an impact.
I will admit that it isn't always to see all of a player's contributions while watching games on television. You don't see what goes on away from the ball and Dempsey's struggles with making an impact (pre-Egypt goal) had as much to do with teammates not finding him as because of his own failings. That said, I'm still a bit surprised to see his rating in the Castrol Ranking be so high.
It should also be noted that those same Castrol Rankings have Oguchi Onyewu has the fifth-lowest rated player in the tournament, with Jay DeMerit sixth. New York Red Bulls defender Andrew Boyens is the lowest rated player in the tournament, a rating that can't really be argued.
So here is my question to you SBI Readers: What do you think of Clint Dempsey's high player rating and performance in the Confederations Cup? Cast your vote:
What do you think of Dempsey's performance so far in the Confederations Cup? Think he can find some more magic against Spain? Still not convinced that he has played well? Not a fan of the Castrol Player Rating system? Think it's actually pretty accurate?
Share your thoughts below.
this ranking is about as bad as the BCS poll
El Tri,
Your days are over. Ours have yet to come.
Azteca will be ours!!
Dempsey is a stellar midfielder for Fulham. His role is just so much larger for the US. He has a lot more responsibility.
He was lucky that he hit the ball with the side of his face. Otherwise he would’ve sent it right to the keeper. Kudos, however, for being there and trying to snap it in.
But he did the same thing against Honduras; messed up the header and, fortunately, it bounced off the arm of a defender allowing Bocanegra to score on a diving header.
Dempsey holds the ball too long and is frequently dispossessed. This tournament, his passing has been short and back to the player who gave him the ball, who is then under pressure, and then loses the ball. OK, he made 2 good passes in the last game. That’s nothing to be praise. That’s the minimum one expects from a National Team player.
He is petulant and has stayed on the ground when not getting a call after a foul, instead of getting back into the game ASAP.
He will take ill-advised shots from distance instead of looking to pass to a teammate for a better attempt.
His attempts to perform Ronaldino-esque moves are as laughable as they are ineffective.
He may be a better forward, but he is not helping control the ball in the midfield and that’s hurting this team.
…and they tend to produce typos as well. “Too” not “to.”
Generally speaking, people who make snap decisions when they’re in a highly emotional state and then feel compelled to “publish” their opinions in a format such as this one are inclined to overreact. And yes, the haters out there have been way to hard on BB, CD, MB, etc.
Great to see the passion. Wouldn’t mind a little perspective and restraint to go with it.
These statistics are only marginal in the developement of a game. Yes Dempsey is not as bad as we have said but he is not the player we know he can be. And his effect on the games has not translatred into as many positives as it has negatives which this does not calculate. Give a statistics person enough time and they can find positives or negatives in any situation you want.
100% agree Derek…these people are jumping on the bash Dempsey bandwagon but a fact remains..he is our best player in tight spaces… he wins more 50/50 then everyone but Bradley and Gooch. He goes on little streaks where he is ultra confident… Scoring goals in big matches is like his gift.. against Liverpool to keep Fulham up in 07, two to steal a point from Chelsea, goal in Cuba, goal in the WC, goal to keep us alive in the Confed Cup… figure it out people…
I think Dempsey is a super Forward and a miserable midfielder. I’m suprised Bradley is risking his poor defense and iffy passing ..let alone positioning.. in the midfield. But with 2 central/defensive mids covering for him it might work. My take is that it hasn’t worked well post red cards in italian and the brasilian match.
When he was pushed up top, me did/does great (enough). I’d rather see Freddy Adu (yikes!) or Torres playing midfield over Dempsey. But, clearly Bradley has trust that he’s more versitile then either of those guys (or his other forward options).
I am not saying Mexico is a top team, but my point is the US isnt either. You might own us in the US, but not in Mexico. Just to conclude, the reason we lost that game in 02 was because we were 2 confident against a bunch of american youngsters, but if that game was played 10 times, mexico would win 9 of them. Face it, even though Mexico probably wont win a world cup in my life time, the chances of US winning it are even more remote. You are NOT a soccer country! Baseball? Basketball? Football? Maybe…. Just because you created all those sports.
People expect magic from him, at all times. If he doesn’t score, he’s terrible, even though no one on the team has done much scoring, ESPECIALLY during the run of play.
Attacking players lose the ball sometimes because you have to take some chances. He’s taken a few in bad positions, but losing the ball around midfield shouldn’t be catastrophic as it was when we were down a man.
In general, he is one of the stronger guys to HOLD the ball, and he wins 50/50 balls.
Too much criticism from people sitting at computers and former National team members.
Let’s get behind Clint and the entire team for Spain. We have a chance to make some HISTORY!! We’re going to need subs. That is for sure.
He is a good player, but I thought he should be benched, so he can be put a bigger effert.
i think teddie boy eddie hit it on the head…since dempsey is one of our most flashy and arguably OUR best creative player (him or donovan)…we as US fans have overrated him…on the grand scheme of things internationally…hes a decent player…if he valued possession more and was a slightly better decision maker he could do more with his potential because athletically speaking he would be a better player centrally…but he turns the ball over so much that unless you put him all the way up top…it becomes a liability
My two cents on Dempsey: personally, I really like watching the guy. I think the expectations for him are too great. Americans say, “Hey, he starts for a Premiership team, so he has to be really good.” Well, Dempsey (in a tie) led Fulham in goals last season with … seven. That’s not a significant number, especially compared to the number of goals you’d see from team leaders elsewhere.
The reality is that he’s one of the Americans’ best options to score a goal, but he’s not going to be a goal scoring machine just because he plays in the most visible European league to Americans.
Landon Donovan being ranked behind Dempsey and Bradley just goes to show how retarded those rankings are.
Dempsey has been terrible. He has been terrible for many, many games. Just look at how many times he set up shots and goals for the other teams by losing the ball, all the while not contributing anything but one header goal in the Egypt game. The fact that he still starts and plays 90 minutes a game every game instead of giving someone else a shot just shows how retarded Bob Bradley is.
I could be wrong here, but it looks like the ranking system is giving significant weight to the number of passes completed. That’s the only difference I can see between the highly-rated defenders, such as the South Africans, and the lowly-rated American defenders. Basically, the South Africans have had to make twice as many passes as the Americans, so that magically makes them better defenders.
I love this guy!!!!!! But he has lost the ball and not tracked back on D as much as you would like over the last 5 games. So maybe he is tired or frustrated with his teammates. Whatever the case he just has not been that good. Whoever The goal takes some of the sting out of it but still an ok perfromance so far in these 3 games.
I like the idea of having him play up top and Benny/Adu/Torres in his midfield spot. Prolly Benny just like in the Egypt game. I was a little perplexed with that sub but after thinking about I like it. Then you take out Jozy and bring in Charlie when the D is gassed. I like that alot!!!!!
Athough I think starting in the midfield and then moving could be good to. Charlie is a livewire it seems like and if he learns from the last game that squaring the ball sometimes is ok them we might see the begining of something special. Thre stikers that bring diferent things and can be dangerous. All three have no fear shich is kinda good (Eddie Johnson Hello).
Overall Clint is a good player and he needs to keep playing since he brings qualities that are not found in abundance on the team. I hope the goal gave him a second wind.
from fifa.com
Distance covered:
USA monopolise the podium when it comes to South Africa 2009’s hardest-working players, and Bob Bradley has particular reason to be proud of his son and star midfielder, who has covered an average of over 12 kilometres per match. Incidentally, the best-placed Spaniard in these standings, Xavi, lies a lowly 37th, underlining the European champions’ ability to let the ball do the work.
The leaders: Bradley (36,426 metres), Dempsey (34,855), Donovan (34,263)
Harkes and Dellacamera are watching the game like we do: TV. I wouldn’t put any stock in what they have to say.
No, we have not been too critical. Dempsey has not played well in South Africa or in recent qualifiers. But, one of the reasons he has been criticized is that he is among the best players we have. Whether he is tired, misused by Bradley, both or something else, he has generally been poor of late for the Nats.
I looked at the Castrol ratings earlier today. They seem to measure touches primarily. This measure makes Dempsey look worse. To have touched the ball so much and to have done so little is disappointing.
“lies, damned lies and statistics”
he had an excellent goal at the perfect time, but otherwise he just hasn’t been very effective. if he’s that high on the list and onyewu and demerit that low, then i think there is something wrong with the formula. the best way to determine a players value is by watching him play, not using some contrived formula.
I’m afraid my fellow US supporters have always overrated Dempsey. He’s a decent player and has a nose for goal. But I seriously doubt the opposition is worried he is on the other team. I frequently read posts discussing Dempsey’s creative abilities, but these skills are infrequently on display. There’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s nothing wrong with accepting that Dempsey is just an OK player when compared to other players in the league in which he plays and also on that international stage.
It’s also funny that anyone who dares criticize him are called haters. Seriously? Grow up. Differences of opinion are allowed.
We’ve been getting really biased television play by play on U.S. games this tournament. Harkes commentary on Dempsey’s play has been overly negative such that his commentary has slanted the entire American fans perception of Dempsey as a player. The foreign observers are seeing an entirely different game than the one Harkes and Dellacamera are calling.
The ratings aren’t good, and it’s not hard to figure out why: they clearly over-value goals and punish the defense collectively for goals against. Everything else (presumably distance run, percentage of passes completed, etc.) seems to be incidental. You can tell exactly how each American separated himself from the pack: Dempsey and Bradley scored from the run of play, Donovan had an assist and scored from the spot, Jozy drew a PK, and Spector had an assist. And the defenders (plus Howard) got grouped together even though they were not equally at fault for the goals. I like the idea of trying to use statistics in soccer, but these statistics aren’t any good.
That index is dumb- Clint’s number is high because he has played a lot, has a lot of shots and a goal. How can anyone be in the top ten and have only complete 66% of his passes. That is dreadful. It also doesn’t take into account what those missed passed have led to, how often his man is leading the attack for the other team or how many times he has tried to pull a Zidane move that has prematurely killed a US attack. Ives I would hope you just put up this topic for a conversation starter because to think Clint is putting in the extra work when the cameras are on Bornstein and Lando on the left side of the field is absurd. Were all watching the same games including the last two WCQ and Clint has been just awful over there. His attitude and lack of fire angers me more than lack of productivity.
I don’t know, I sort of view Dempsey as the Brett Favre of the USMNT: one of our best talents who does a lot of great things on the field, but occasionally (and usually in an effort to create something) makes a bonehead play. Can be frustrating, sure, but we still need him on the field, in my opinion. Some of his actions lately — the gaffe against Honduras, for example — merit some criticism, but I think we’ve been a bit hard on him. He’s nowhere near as out of formt as, say, Beasley.
While I am not certain whether he should be ranked so high, the criticizm on this & other blogs, as well as from that blowhard Harks on ESPN, has been off base. Admiteddly, Dempsey looked sluggish at times, and he has over-dribbled in a couple of plays. But I think we’re seeing the effect of fatigue on a player who had just finished a full season of play at the EPL. He may also be trying too hard to assume a dominant role on the team.
But those instances are far outnumbered by the instances of Dempsey working hard in the midfield, making passes, tackling, etc. Also, those who claim that his goal was easy should remember that we don’t have too many players that could have made that header look so routine. So, I’ll take the good with the bad.
In terms of Dempsey’s natural position, that’s open to debate. He is quite successfull at Fulham playing in the middle (tackling, setting up others with passes), but he has been complimented there by more consistent scorers on that team (Zamora notwithstanding:). May be it is worth a try in the next game to have Dempsey play forward.
I’d need to know more about the rating system.
I’m assuming the ratings include pass completion %, distance traveled, tackles, and total shots/shots on target/goals..but I couldn’t guess to what else is considered.
I would assume by his high score that turnovers aren’t calculated or negatively-weighted properly because Dempsey has had a ton of them.
One thing this rating system is guaranteed not to show is how soft a player he has become. He is still brave in the air and challenges for the ball, but he has developed the annoying habit of flopping. I’m not sure whether his coaches have asked him to do this to earn more set plays, but it is infuriating to watch him flop and lay on the ground waiting for play to stop. I brag to all my foreign football buddies about how American’s don’t dive like Europeans and then have to eat crow when Dempsey goes around doing his best Steven Gerrard impression.
Most disheartening has been his tendency to take too many touches on the ball and eventually give it away in dangerous positions for the other team to counter.
I do not think we have been “too hard” on him. He is our talisman at this point in time, being our only field player to play regular minutes and produce in a top league, so it is natural we expect him to impact the game more than he has.
I’d like to see him stop trying to be C. Ronaldo already. I nearly spit at my TV when he pulled off a “rabona” (for those who don’t know, it’s the kick where you take your kicking leg and strike the ball with it being in a crossed position behind your plant leg) and ruined a potential scoring chance against Brazil, one of the few times we had players running forward in numbers. It was needless, showboating play and we have no room in our game for that.
Yes! Clint is a solid player and deserves a lot more credit than he is given!
I didn’t have a chance to watch the Egypt game until today, and from what I read, I thought Dempsey had an awful game. Apparently people forgot about the two chances he created in the first 15 minutes…
Honestly, Dempsey isn’t being utilzed correctly on this team. He has always performed well for the National Team as a second striker. He is not really a good right midfield player.
Ask yourself this? On the wing, do you want a semi slow dribbler or a speedy guy who can get in crosses…
Dempsey is not that speedy winger type so GET HIM OUT OF THAT ROLE.
Dempsey did have 2 quality passes to set up strikers in the first half. One was the long ball to Donovan (the one where he passed instead of shooting) and a cutting ball to Davies or Jozy (can’t remember)
DWE4…yea, but not really.
“The majority of Clint’s completed passes fall into 2 categories: quick lay-off passes to teammates <5 yards away; and careless 5-20 yard passes that put his teammate (and the ball) in a dangerous situation, usually resulting in losing the ball."
From the index:
Long passes 13
Long Passes complete 9
Long Passes completion rate 69.23%
Medium Passes 78
Medium Passes complete 47
Medium Passes completion rate 60.26%
Short Passes 33
Short Passes complete 26
Short Passes completion rate 78.79%
It looks like he makes far more medium passes than short lay-offs. And 60.26% is hardly "usually" anything for medium passes. He is pretty low among all players, but has a better MP completion percentage than Bradley or Feilhaber. Plus, some of his "long passes" have created big opportunities. His LP completion percentage happens to be better than Pirlo or Fabregas. What does all of that mean? Well, not much. I am just saying that the statistics DO offer SOME insight.
The real problem has been his decision-making on the ball in the middle-third of the field. My heavens he has done some stuff that made me cringe-really tough giveaways.
On that note, I don't think he is physically fatigued. I think he is mentally fatigued IF AT ALL.
I’ve always thought of Dempsey as a poor man’s Cristiano Ronaldo.
A tall player with some flashy dribbling tricks and good instincts who nonetheless will be invisible for the other 90% of the game. I, for one, think it’s good for the US to have a player like that.
Maybe Dempsey is tired but tired of playing out position as Mr. Bob Bradley does with his player. Dempsey I think he wants to show the big clubs that he is ready and maybe he is trying to do too much, I think he is thinking of making goals so let him become a striker and let him play next to the goal and pair him with other striker like Altidore or Davis. Davis has the speed and control on the ball, altidore has the height and body to be the attacker. And for the Ranking I think is a little bit off cause Donovan have been the heart & soul of this team. He has been up, middle and defence. SO my player of this team is Mr.Landocake
Dempsey, one of the best players on display?
Observe also that 3 of the top 7 players are South African. And that Jozy Altidore is ranked far above Onyewu and Demerit.
They will, of course, build better indices in due course.
But this is laughable.
Completed passes CAN BE a stupid statistic. The majority of Clint’s completed passes fall into 2 categories: quick lay-off passes to teammates <5 yards away; and careless 5-20 yard passes that put his teammate (and the ball) in a dangerous situation, usually resulting in losing the ball.
Statistics be damned: Every time he gets the ball, I yell at the TV, "Okay Clint, how are you going to mess this one up?" And he does.
Maybe I should keep my own statistics, but "Clint Dempsey" and "awesome pass" haven't appeared in the same sentence for a long time.
The Castrol numbers are stupid. Dempsey has been ineffective for a year. He scored a nice goal. I hope that breaks him out of his slump. However, he's been the US's 4th best midfielder in these matches.
Try again:
Is anyone else concerned that since Bob has not used many subs that our players are going to get worn out against Spain? (Dempsey’s fatigue aside)
Dempsey hasn’t looked tired. He just hasn’t looked like the player we’ve seen in the past. Actually, I don’t think fatigue is an issue for him. Just because he finished a long season in England doesn’t = he’s tired.
Where are you guys getting this fatigue stuff? Hell, if that’s the case then Onyewu should be dead considering he’s started most matches at Standard and that included their run in UEFA Cup, Belgian Cup et al.
It’s good to see Dempsey score and hopefully it’s the start of something great but I’m not buying the he’s fatigued crap.
I’ll go with my own eyes, as opposed to any rating system that has Dempsey amongst the best and Gooch amongst the worst.
I anyone else concerned that since Bob has not used many subs that are players are going to get worn out against Spain? (Dempsey’s fatigue aside)
It’s amazing the extent people will go to disagree with objective analysis. Your eyes fail you; that is why there are measurable statistics.
Gooch has stopped a lot, sure, but if you *must* use your eyes, watch how many headers and clearances go right to an opposing player, or out of bounds, or are just booted down the middle of the park.
Now, watch Dempsey, and try to *see* what he is seeing – a run, a turn, something, that players of the caliber of Danny Murphy or Simon Davies can make, but Sasha Kljestan cannot.
Then, go and look at how this Castrol Index works . . .
Folks:
Ratings & rankings only matter in one sport: Division I-A football (joke).
The rest of it is garbage.
I’ll just say this:
DEMPSEY IS NOT A MIDFIELDER!
Leave him at forward and nowhere else.
I would be interested in an article covering John Harkes’s performance in the broadcast booth. As an announcer, his hindsight bias is atrocious (e.g. “If the ref gives it, it’s a red card.” or if the shot misses, “he should have passed there” or if a pass fails to connect, “he should have been more aggressive there”).
Also, the next time I hear him waxing rhapsodic about the heart of Tab Ramos and Tom Dooley, I’ll barf.
@ abe:
you really did outperform us in that 2002 world cup, didn’t you? and yeah, you got out of group in 06, but it was the weakest group and you barely survived.
and last but not least, WE OWN YOU. so piss off, loser. piss off by a score of 2-0.
Settle down, Abe. Let me give you something you obviously aren’t use to……facts. You see, your comment about the US not playing well in an “official tournament” doesn’t exactly hold water considering they BEAT MEXICO IN AN OFFICIAL TOUNAMENT!!!! Unless of course, you are suggesting Mexico is not a top team. In that case, well…you said it not me. Secondly, despite not playing very well, the US made it out of a group that includes Brazil and Italy. Nobody, including the majority of Nats fans (myself included) thought that to be possible. I think most fans of the US give Mexico their due when they succeed. How about doing the same?
Maybe Dempsey is like one of Billy Beane’s gems in ‘Moneyball’. A player that is not the most eyepleasing player, but when the stats are counted he is the guy you want on the field because he increases a teams chances of winning… either way, when Clint is on form he is an exciting player to have on the team.
EVERYONE…
El Tri Rules! = Troll.
Disregard not because of Dempsey comment but ignorance that results in xenophobia.
He’s no Freddy Adu, I’ll tell you that.
Right, Ives? I know you have my back!
It’s not that Dempsey is disliked, he certainly is a continual player for the US team. He just looks tired and needs a break. Give Torres or Adu a chance. Just like Guzan stepped in for Howard last game.