Top Stories

USMNT 4, Bolivia 0: The SBI Breakdown

Photo by Gary Rohman/MLS/USA TODAY Sports
Photo by Gary Rohman/MLS/USA TODAY Sports

Bolivia was always set to be the confidence-booster, a team that the U.S. Men’s National Team could defeat handily ahead of the Copa America. For once, the USMNT took care of business quite decisively, setting Jurgen Klinsmann’s men up perfectly for what the German-born coach hopes will be a successful summer.

Facing the South American nation in their final pre-Copa friendly, the USMNT never looked in danger in a 4-0 thrashing of Bolivia. Despite unveiling an unconventional lineup to start, the U.S. started with the foot on the gas and never looked back. Gyasi Zardes, Alejandro Bedoya and John Brooks led the way in a complete performances while also seemingly locking up their spots ahead of the upcoming tournament.

In the second half, Klinsmann revealed what will most likely be the USMNT’s go-to lineup heading into the Copa America. Featuring a potent mix of veteran stars and up-and-coming talents, Klinsmann’s first unit shined, while players like Christian Pulisic and Darlington Nagbe fought for their own places in that lineup with standout performances yet again.

Colombia now awaits, and will certainly provide much, much more than lowly Bolivia. However, with the Copa America looming the USMNT is in a position to succeed and riding high after a confidence-boosting thrashing of South American opposition.

Here are several takeaways from the USMNT’s win over Bolivia:

ZARDES SHOWS WHAT HE CAN BRING TO USMNT

Gyasi Zardes may never have the technical ability of the world’s elite, but Saturday’s performance showed that the 24-year-old forward showed he still has plenty to offer the USMNT.

Starting as part of a three-man attack, Zardes provided a pair of goals in Saturday’s victory. The two finishes capped what was likely Zardes’ best performance in a  USMNT jersey at a time where his role has come up for major debate.

His first touch is a work in progress and he is far from a technical wizard, but Zardes offers the USMNT a unique presence that keeps even top defenders honest. Athletically, Zardes is as talented as any, while Saturday showed Zardes’ reading of the game has improved in a major way in recent years. At the end of the day, Zardes is a handful and provides a unique presence that could explode in an instant.

Zardes failed to impress against Ecuador, but provided a major bounce back in Saturday’s win over Bolivia, and it will likely be enough to earn him significant minutes in this summer’s Copa America.

BEDOYA SHINES IN CENTRAL MIDFIELD

Michael Bradley and Jermaine Jones have all but locked up spots in the central midfield, and it appears that Alejandro Bedoya will be the man to join them in the middle.

Bedoya was the star on Saturday, notching two assists in an impressive performance. Played centrally instead of out wide, Bedoya partnered effortlessly with Jones and Bradley, creating a virtually ideal synergy in the midfield. With Bradley staying home, Jones and Bedoya were unleashed to create in their own separate ways while offering defensive support when needed.

The role was a familiar one for Bedoya, although he has generally been played on the wing with the national team. At Nantes, Bedoya has shined as a box-to-box presence, combining his attacking and defensive versatility to offer a presence on both sides of the ball. Bedoya’s passing ability took centerstage on Saturday, but his defensive support is just as vital for a team heading into bigger challenges.

BROOKS,CAMERON LOCK DOWN CENTERBACKS SPOTS

John Brooks and Geoff Cameron played their second game as a pairing on Saturday night, proving that their third match together will all but certainly come against Colombia.

The duo was given extended minutes on Saturday, and looked plenty capable against a Bolivia team that was never truly threatening. Aside from an early Brooks miscue, neither made any sort of mistake on Saturday while maintaining an always-welcome clean sheet. Throughout the past year, the USMNT would have found a way to concede on Saturday night, but Brooks and Cameron kept locked down while forging their partnership ahead of the Copa America.

Cameron’s spot was all but secured heading into Saturday’s match, but Brooks’ efforts likely locked down his starting role against Colombia. After a strong season in the Bundesliga, Brooks has certainly earned the position. The fact that Matt Besler was deployed solely as a left back showed Klinsmann’s intentions, as it appears Cameron-Brooks will be the primary centerback partnership going forward.

Brooks and Cameron still face a significant test, especially given their inexperience as a partnership. However, Saturday’s tune-up showed positive signs, even if Colombia will prove to be a whole other animal when the tournament kicks off.

PULISIC TAKES NEXT STEP WITH FIRST SENIOR GOAL

The Christian Pulisic hype train reached a new level on Saturday night, pushing the excitement surrounding the 17-year-old star to an uncontrollable level.

Pulisic scored his first USMNT goal on Saturday night, becoming the youngest player to score for the U.S. in the modern age. It was a memorable, and totally deserved, moment for the Borussia Dortmund prospect, who took his chance well to blast home the USMNT’s fourth.

To date, Pulisic has never shown any willingness to back down from the pressure being thrust upon him. The 17-year-old has played with the maturity of a player twice his age while demonstrating the technical and physical tools to really shine on the international level. Saturday’s display may have been his first goal, but it was far from his first impressive effort on the field at a high level.

The old saying is that if you’re good enough, you’re old enough, and it will likely ring true at the Copa America. Given his performances, Pulisic cannot be glued to the bench. Jurgen Klinsmann has found himself a contributor, one that is now ready to step into the limelight at this summer’s tournament.

USMNT HAS REASONS TO FEEL CONFIDENT AHEAD OF COPA AMERICA

Bolivia is not Colombia, Costa Rica or even Paraguay, but Saturday’s win and the performances that cam before it should see a confident USMNT into the Copa America.

The run up to the Copa America was certainly not perfect, but the USMNT has answered every question asked of them. A result against Ecuador was an impressive one, while Saturday’s thrashing of Bolivia showed what the USMNT can do when clicking. After a year of up-and-down performances, it was a welcome sight to see the U.S. just go out and dominate someone rather than play down or up to the competition.

For the first time in quite some time, the U.S. picture remains clear. The starting lineup looks nearly set, while the role player seem easily defined. It’s almost certain which 13 or 14 players remain in the mix for Colombia, as the U.S. has seen several standout players emerge throughout the recent camp. That’s not to say this U.S. team isn’t deep. It certainly is, and might just be one of the deepest in recent memory.

When all is said and done, this U.S. team will be judged on the next several weeks, not friendly wins over Puerto Rico, Ecuador and Bolivia. However, the U.S. has put themselves in an ideal position to go out and achieve something over this next month and should enter the Copa America with confidence ahead of clashes with the world’s best.

Comments

  1. Yet another american who is sleeping on Paraguay. If you think Costa Rica is better, your world soccer view is too small.

    What percentage of Yanks has ever watched a Copa America? While it won’t quite resemble what happens in South America, we are about to see something here that will make Concacaf look very small. This is a product of only concentrating on the European continent.

    Reply
    • i’ll admit that i don’t know much about paraguay, but, like the copa america, the world cup is pretty big, and concacaf didn’t really embarrass themselves too badly there. (i think even some conmebol nations were there!)

      Reply
    • Paraguay are a decent side but this is not the late 90s early 2000s Paraguay team. They did finish rock bottom of the CONMEBOL qualifying for Brazil.

      Reply
    • In a game with only 3 subs, subbimg two players at halftime would be pretty risky. Perhaps one but not both until at least 60 minutes.

      Reply
  2. I think a big issue is what formation do we play vs. Colombia. Can we retain possession against them and do we need to have a more defensive lineup? I think I heard something from JK during one of the interviews where he said something about maybe playing Beckerman against Colombia. So, do we stick with the 4-3-3 and engage in what would likely be a shootout and hope we outscore them, or play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1? Colombia is in a whole different class compared to our 3 previous opponents and I;’m not sure the 4-3-3 is viable against them. And if we do play a different, more defensive formation, how does that change the personnel? Let’s assume a 4-4-1-1, with the usual back line of FJohnson, Brooks, Cameron, Yedlin, then Bradley, Jones, and Beckerman and either Bedoya, Nagbe, or Zardes, in the middle with Wood up top and Dempsey in behind him. Or you could have Dempsey line up in the middle, too, and then go forward when we get possession to trail Wood,. So, there still are a lot of decisions to be made and things aren’t set at all for the first game. After that I can see us going to the 4-3-3 for the next two games, but it’s so important to get a result vs. Colombia, the smart bet might be to play defensively first and then hope to win one (plus a draw) or two of the next two games.

    Reply
    • I thought that JK said Colombia is the reason for a playing 4-3-3. Also if US go more defensive line up then there goes any chance of keeping the possession close, I hope they come out and attack and trust the back four and Bradley. I think a 0-0 or 1-1 would be a good start.

      Reply
      • JK clearly hinted that they would adjust according to opponent, now whether that meant personnel or formation Im not sure. I would be disappointed if we dont go at Columbia, but if they play defensively and get a result- then come at CR and Paraguay, I wont complain.

      • Out with the old… totally agree. You cannot have MB,JJ,KB as your midfield. We will sit back and hope to catch one on a long ball for a 1-0. While possible, it isn’t likely. Maybe everyone just hopes for a draw? A draw wouldn’t be bad obviously but bunkering isn’t how we should go about it. yedlin, fj, brooks, cameron. Let MB hold down the cdm, he can pick his moments to go forward. Get numbers foward and try to put a little smart pressure on them and keep some possession.

    • The difference between our 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 is pretty small. You can still play Zardes in that FW/MF role on one side and Wood is good enough tracking back on the other or use Bedoya/Zusi and bring Wood on later as the legs tire. JK has all, but said Beckerman will start against Colombia to disrupt James.

      Reply
  3. although the scoreline was nice, i was actually more impressed with our performance against ecuador.

    bolivia was reminiscent of our 5-1 game against scotland, where the opposition looked like they were only interested in the paid vacation. there were many times where we played sloppy passes that would’ve been punished against better teams, the amount of space our mids were given didn’t really give us any new information about them, yedlin had one of his worst defensive games in a while, and pulisic clearly showed that he’s not quite ready for a central role. (i still think he should start for us, on the wing.)

    on the positive side, our defense got more reps together, pulisic got off the mark, and zardes learned that he just needs to forget the whole trapping thing and one-time that sh!t.

    Reply
    • yeah, bolivia didn’t mean much, but I was less than impressed with Ecuador… Again, something about our spacing was waaaay off in that Ecuador game… they had a man advantage in all phases.

      Reply
      • oh yeah, didn’t mean to imply that we looked great against ecuador either (i addressed that in another post); was just saying i found it more impressive than this game.

    • I was in attendance…I was stunned by how bad Bolivia was, but I didn’t see anything too concerning. Maybe they should have cashed out one of their two great chances, but that’s part and parcel of being a bad team.

      I agree that aside from the goal, Puliscic was less impressive in this contest than previous USMNT. But Wood was great, Jones too when he applied himself. Bedoya was great in moments and solid the rest of the minutes. Bradley was smart and in control. Zardes may have learned how to contribute on this level, or at least taken a lesson towards that and the defense was solid except for the odd bad giveaway- but nothing like the out of position disjointed defense we have seen most of the last two years.

      It was a fairly good game, Bothe Zardes goals resulted from fantastic plays. The only “meh” goal to me was the sneaky set piece, everything else was generated by good plays from the US. (Maybe Bolivia needed to thump it long out of their corner instead of working it out on goal 4- but in a friendly your squad may as well work on that and then thump it ourt once the competition begins (which is why we see more tight results in competition anyway)

      Reply
      • we did look great. my point was that it was hard to take away any positive information from that game because the opposition looked totally uninterested.

        bradley, bedoya, jones, zardes — they would all look great and make pretty passing plays against the rochester rhinos as well, but that wouldn’t tell us anything about how they’ll do against colombia, paraguay, or costa rica.

      • Correct. And as you could imagine lining up across from Brasil and Bolivia are two different things.

      • Against Brazil he was more of an 8, not a 6. Against Bolivia he was again an 8. The only difference was he was one of two pivoting 8s in a 4231 vs Brazil and a sole 8 against Bolivia. He has never been asked to play the beckerman role which a lot of people insinuate when blaming JK for starting bedoya at “CDM”……

        My point is very simple…..selective, narrative-fitting reasoning is never useful.

      • Revisionist history. Bedoya was playing as a 6 against Brazil and said after the match he had never played that position ever in his life. Playing someone at a brand new position against Brazil seems like a bad idea no?

    • wait, you were serious? you’re completely wrong on this one.

      call him a 6, 8, 23, or 0 — if we’re playing brasil, the double pivot players are always going to play as defensive mids, basically shielding the defense. against bolivia (again, i can’t believe you’re seriously saying these are comparable), he clearly had license to roam with bradley covering behind him.

      and — i can’t remember if i mentioned this — it was BOLIVIA. i actually think bedoya could’ve played the “beckerman” role against bolivia — hell, he probably could’ve played the “guzan” role. just because i can play striker against my 6-year-old’s team doesn’t mean i can do it against the u-23s.

      “…selective, narrative-fitting reasoning is never useful.”

      listen to yourself, man. i originally thought you were trolling just because the bedoyavbrasil decision was pretty indefensible.

      Reply
      • lol hey man, asking a 10/7 that works hard on defense to play 8 (even a pivoting 8) still isn’t that crazy in my book. I’m sure if I took the time I could look up examples of 10/7s playing a pivoting cm. (lens for Sunderland comes to mind. He was used as a cam, winger and pivoting Cmid with mvila this season….crazy right…? 🙂 )

      • To put it differently, a player’s skill set determines his position(s), not the other way around. So if I have a player that can possess, cross, pass and works hard on defense with sufficient speed I can play him at the 10 or 7. But because he works hard on defense I could consider putting him at CM (8) if need be, only because of his skillset.

        Now take another player who can possess, pass, cross but maybe isn’t as good defensively; I’m less likely to play him at cm8. (My rough example here is Pulisic or zusi, they both play 10/7 but aren’t as good defensively thus would be a mistake playing at 8).

        Point being, bedoya at 8 is perhaps less than ideal but surely doesn’t show bad coaching……..

      • “To put it differently, a player’s skill set determines his position(s), not the other way around.”

        Sounds like a 16 year old kid high schooler speaking to a u6 squad.

      • I think you missed the point, John Madden. It is so obvious, just like any other sport or athlete that it comes across like some young know it all kid preaching to 6 year olds. You mean to tell me if you throw a centerback up top they don’t automatically acquire all the skills of a forward? OMG.

      • Wham- don’t blame me for you not understanding how that simple concept applies to this context. All I can do is explain, if you only see the surface level of my point then that is a personal problem. Thanks for the friendly debate. I look forward to more dialogues in the future!

      • Oh, DLOA, see I am not blaming you for not “understanding” something along the lines of “water is wet” I blame you for sitting way up on that tall white horse thinking you’re the voice of reason. your know it all(which you don’t), I’m right, you’re wrong demeaning attitude really is lame… and to think you are having conversations with people on SBI who need to be told, “Your skill dictates your position” is hilarious.

        If I had to compare you to someone it would be the guy who became a fan of the game through low level refereeing, that is how you come across, like your knowledge comes from TV and books not actual experience. If I am wrong, then I guess it is even worse you come across that way.
        Keep killin em with kindness DLOA

      • Wow thought we were having a good friendly debate. When did I say “I’m right you’re wrong”? Don’t confuse my personal confidence in my statements with intent to belittle you. I believe either you or louisz were first to call me an ldiot in an above comment. I thought that was a bit much but I can’t control your level of respect.

        To be honest, I don’t mind one bit if you don’t think they are similar. That’s debate. But if you think I’m crazy for thinking so then I am glad to give you facts that support my theory. If you then take offense then I’m sorry you took it that way. I have said nothing today that was meant to be offensive or downputting.

        For personal context, amongst my peers I’m have a rep for being too matter of fact. If someone asks if I wanna go to XYZ for dinner, I’ll reply “sure”– meaning affirmative, positive, yes, etc. and they might interpret that as snark or secretly not wanting to go to XYZ, just because sometimes some people can be sarcastic when saying sure….

        So I’ll admit that fault. So my “ok, got it” lines are far from snarky and sarcastic. More literal as in ‘ok got it… You disagree, it is what it is.’

        So in the future I’ll try to be less literal and more in tune with societies common interpretations of text dialogue. :)… Again, I mean that literally and sincerely… Perhaps I’ve already failed…lol

      • Your self confidence doesn’t shine through in your comments, if anything it’s some insecurity you have. But That’s a personal issue as you might say, so I won’t go there. You are talking about jozy and Clint again. This is about about your comments to others that are talking down and belittling. You didn’t belittle me, no need to apologize. You couldn’t if you tried. Just To be clear :):):)

  4. Geoff Cameron is shaky. He is the weakest link. I fully expect him to cost us at some point. Personally I would start Birnbaum over him.But Klinsmann has seemed to favor him for sometime now.

    Reply
  5. Not sure why my other comment did not show up but here it is again….

    I like Bedoya as a starter but I think Jones and Bedoya are too similar in style to play together in front of Jr. I like the idea of Jr., a hustle guy like Joes/Bedoya and Nagbe as the string puller. The only problem is the Jones is so great in his hustle/energy that it is hard to keep him off the field. Maybe he can become our new Cobi Jones, the late game pest with too much energy to contain by tired legs.

    I also think there needs to be a bigger debate about Dempsey vs. Wood up top centrally. I get why Dempsey is there, and it is always hard to argue against him in big moments, but Wood looks like he is playing so much better right now and looks to be connecting with his teammates up top better. Not sure which way to go but I think it is a toss up right now between the two.

    Reply
    • Jones and Bedoya are neither that similar nor that different. However, Jones is better defensively, while Bedoya is better offensively, in my opinion. While neither of them will glamour you regarding their dribbling or trickery, they still create a solid connection with each other and Bradley. Now, I would certainly not mind using Nagbe to take over for either of them, but the likelihood is that Bedoya would be the odd man out at present.

      I fully agree with this. Dempsey is a big game player, but half the time I just see him lose the ball or fall over and complain to the ref. Granted, he does get hacked down a lot, but I just don’t see that movement or energy that you would want to see from a forward in a 4-3-3, especially centrally. But, as you said, it is hard to argue excluding him considering he still has a lot of skill and is always present on our rosters and starting lineups barring injury. His experience and craftiness are what keep him in the lineup, but I’m not sure how long that continues as we can certainly be more dynamic without him (I think).

      Reply
      • In my opinion, Dempsey gets hacked because he is slow to the play. Also, if he is going to be challenged cleanly he will resort to purposely tripping over a challenger’s leg and have the expression “why did you foul me?”

    • For the next month the familiarity between Jones & Bedoya will allow them to work together in a satisfactory manner. After this tournament I would hazard a guess that Nagbe begins to be inserted more often as a starter with either Jones or Bedoya moved to the bench and used as an impact sub (my vote would be Jones but thats just my opinion).
      Similar situation with Dempsey. The fact that he tends to drop deep (almost like the top of the diamond in a 4-4-2) will allow Clint to remain a key element over the course of this tournament. Once over and other strikers return to form and the pool (Jozy, Johannsson, Rubin, etc….) I would expect there to be more of a forward rotation employed. We cannot expect Clint to remain our main offensive threat mush longer.
      I would expect Beckerman, Wondo, & Orozco to be pretty much finished after this tournament. They’ll be replaced with any number of players depending upon who is playing well for their clubs…
      Kitchen, Williams, Morales Acosta, for Beckerman
      Johannsson, Rubin, Gyau, Agudelo for Wondo
      Villafana, Chandler, Payne, Acosta, Miazga for Orozco (depending on where you see him playing)

      The next Camp Cup Cake should be very telling as to who JK rates from MLS. If he can find another player or 2 to add to the depth it would be very helpful.

      Reply
  6. I agree that Bedoya has solidified his spot, but I am not sure if Jones and Bedoya together is the right duo in front of Jr. Don’t they seem like the same type of player? Wouldn’t Nagbe be a better compliment to the hustle of Bedoya or Jones? It is a good problem to have because Jones has made his case to stay on the pitch no matter what, but I would love him as a high energy sub to annoy and frustrate opponents once they are a bit tired.

    The other thing that is not mentioned in this article is the role of Dempsey as a false 9 and whether it is better suited to Bobby Wood right now. I love Demps and everything he has done for us, but Wood looks so much more dangerous in both moving and speed of passing in the central attacker role. Wood also seems more in sync with his teammates where Dempsey seems to play his own game at his own pace. Just like the midfield, I am not sure of the right choices, but I think they are our main discussion points right now.

    Reply
    • I think Jones is more of an all over field destroyer, and while there are some similarities to Bedoya, this also creates symmetry. I dont love Bedoya and of course am excited by Nagbe, but when you play a three player mid-field- that features a talented attacking player as the furthest back (Jr.) than it is good to have hard running box-to-box mids out there with him so too much of the defensive onus isn’t put on him.

      (side note: I hated Jones as the “6”-he never really took on that role- but am loving him box-to-box rather than last mid back.)

      On Dempsey, I think his false 9-ness helps Wood attack ahead of him. I also think Jurgen would rather have Jozy there

      Reply
  7. For the first time in quite some time, the U.S. picture remains clear. The starting lineup looks nearly set, while the role player seem easily defined

    Unless:
    1) Somebody gets hurt
    2) Jozy limps into camp and JK reverts back to starting him. That will undo any progress we’ve made while making our offense useless

    He should still carry Lee Nugyen and forget about Zusi or Wondo or even Beckerman

    Reply
    • How does jozy taking over for Dempsey slow down any progress? lol. Since the Davies incident we’ve been lookin for a striking partner for jozy. Dempsey is too similar to jozy for that to work. So as Clint ‘expires’ jozy can take over, leaving
      Jozy – wood -zardes
      Zardes – jozy – wood
      Jozy – wood – Pulisic
      Pulisic – jozy – wood
      Etc….

      Johanason, Rubin, ksweat, Morris waiting in the ‘wings’

      Reply
      • Player A has a great shot, can score from fks, always willing to make the next pass to allow for a better shot. Plays tough, draws several fouls a game. Not the quickest in the bunch, likes to have a speedy striking partner to play off of. Prefers to play centrally but can suffice on the wing as he did early in his MLS career. Occasionally tries fancy Flicks.

        Player B has a great shot, can score from fks, always willing to make the next pass to allow for a better shot. Plays tough, draws several fouls a game. Not the quickest in the bunch, likes to have a speedy striking partner to play off of. Prefers to play centrally but can suffice on the wing as he did early in his MLS career. Occasionally tries fancy dribbles and flicks.

        Now you tell me which player is which………… Exactly

      • Can score from free kicks? Willing to make the next pass? Exactly?
        Did you just generically name 90% of international level players?
        That was either you showing your true ignorance or some odd form of sarcasm (which would also hint at your ignorance). Just to make sure, in your description the only difference is player B tries fancy flicks AND DRIBBLES while player A only attempts fancy flicks?

        Sandwich A has a nice crispyness to it, soft bun, pairs well with french fries and ketchup.
        Sandwich B has a nice crispyness to it, soft bun, pairs well with french fries and ketchup.

        Sandwich A is a hamburger
        Sandwich B is a chicken sandwich.

        The only similarity between those two is they are supposed to score goals, and more often than not play centrally. Their touch, their creativity, their movement, their energy, their temperament, personality…etc are all different. Questions still stands.

      • Nate, that honestly made me guffaw…

        Wham, ok so you asked me to show the similarities in their game and then mock me for showing sinilR qualities…? Cool…. Makes sense…..

        And I just described 90% of intl strikers? Haha ok…. Suarez isn’t fast and is always willing to pass… Right….. Ronaldo loves to pass too…. And is so slow…. Haha.

        My only point is that jozy and Clint never made the best pair because they were both similar, not the same, but similar. I surely hope u don’t need help understanding the difference between sinilR and the same….

        Clint is a ‘playground player’. His toughness is sinilR to Jozy’s toughness (exemplified by winning more fouls than most strikers…so there’s ONE difference than 90% of intl strikers lol)
        They both have exceptional shots with Jozy’s being slightly more powerful and clints being more finessed.

        They both like to get the ball running at goal but are less likely to make the first run. They’d rather link a 1-2 with a faster striking partner (think Davies with jozy or Landon at rw with Clint in center)

        They both are high soccer IQ guys that play ‘total football’ and always look for the ‘shwetty’ play, hence, openness to pass. I cannot say the same for a Diego Costa etc

        So again here I am explaining how they are similar players and that jozy taking over in the middle for Clint as he ages out is a great plan. That leaves zardes, wood and now Pulisic to fight for the outside spots Clint can start through this ear and jozy can sub on for Clint as he tires. Then perhaps by next year jozy can be the starter with Clint subbing on like Klose did in his recent elder years.

        My initial point was that just because the forwards are starting to figure out the hierarchy it doesn’t mean that jozy is or should be thrown to the gutter. He still compliments this team.

        Zardes-jozy-wood
        Nagbe- bedoya
        Bradley
        FJ Brooks GC yedlin.

        Bring on Pulisic, jones and Clint…. (1 wide mid, 1 d mid and 1 striker/mid). Seems like a pretty sensible lineup for the future………

      • Aside that both have played the 9 by themselves, I don’t see any similarities.

        JA – At best has average speed.
        CD – Is as slow as molasses.
        JA – Has a terrible aerial game, he needs a blown coverage to score a gimmie.
        CD – Has a descent aerial game.
        JA – Is not a very technical player, I think he only has one attacking move, and that is cut inside a shoot.
        CD – Has an arsenal of moves although at this stage of his game, the moves are slow and defenders get time to recover.
        JA – Will get foul and continue.
        CD – Will drop to the ground at the first sign of contact.
        JA – has a decent dead ball shot but doesn’t get to try it often enough.
        CD – Will try many times and connect every once in a while.
        JA – Has no idea where the ball is going to be.
        CD – Has a good sense where the ball is going to be.
        JA – is 6’1
        CD – is 6’2
        And that is the closest you will get at these two being similar.

      • DLOA it is very difficult to keep on track with you, but I will do my best. Your initial statement was that Jozy should take over for Clint because they are basically the same player. I believe 100% Jozy needs to be with the team, it looks more and more like it will be as a bench player but I can’t predict the future. However to say that Jozy and Clint are the same is crazy. We ALL know what we are going to get out of Jozy and Clint, we have watched long enough.

        I am not mocking you, I am making light of your generic, rhetorical response. Because just flat out answering the question wouldn’t have been nearly “clever” enough, for a football lad such as yourself.

        “And I just described 90% of intl strikers? Haha ok…. Suarez isn’t fast and is always willing to pass… Right….. Ronaldo loves to pass too…. And is so slow…. Haha.”

        –Not really sure what any of that means, skip.

        “Clint is a ‘playground player’. His toughness is sinilR to Jozy’s toughness (exemplified by winning more fouls than most strikers…so there’s ONE difference than 90% of intl strikers lol)
        They both have exceptional shots with Jozy’s being slightly more powerful and clints being more finessed.”

        –Don’t confuse Clints chip on his shoulder toughness with Jozys physical stature. Jozy is more like a big teddy bear. He has gotten better at playing as a real target and using his body, though.

        “They both like to get the ball running at goal but are less likely to make the first run. They’d rather link a 1-2 with a faster striking partner (think Davies with jozy or Landon at rw with Clint in center)”

        –What they “Like” to do and are actually capable of doing are two different things.

        “They both are high soccer IQ guys that play ‘total football’ and always look for the ‘shwetty’ play, hence, openness to pass. I cannot say the same for a Diego Costa etc”

        –Are you the deciding factor on IQ? and dope, “shwetty” soccer lingo. Diego Costa I would actually in a sense compare him to Dempsey, never Jozy. And the fact you are questioning Costas soccer IQ makes question any credibility you might have. Diegos selfishness around the goal doesn’t tell me he has a low IQ, maybe his wild retaliations would tell me he isn’t the brightest upstairs, but that’s a different deal. Jozy is a sub par passer and creator.

        “So again here I am explaining how they are similar players and that jozy taking over in the middle for Clint as he ages out is a great plan. That leaves zardes, wood and now Pulisic to fight for the outside spots Clint can start through this ear and jozy can sub on for Clint as he tires. Then perhaps by next year jozy can be the starter with Clint subbing on like Klose did in his recent elder years.”

        –So again I guess I am here to say how is that going to work out when Jozy needs to sit underneath? I am all for them both being subs at the next cup, that would mean our youngsters really stepped up. To think the torch needs to be passed from Dempsey to Jozy is something I don’t really get.

        “My initial point was that just because the forwards are starting to figure out the hierarchy it doesn’t mean that jozy is or should be thrown to the gutter. He still compliments this team.”

        –You’ve attempted to make many points… I don’t think Jozy should be thrown in the gutter at all, I also don’t think he and Dempsey should be considered interchangeable. If we have a must win game today, for me Dempsey starts Jozy Doesn’t. If Dempsey cannot start for any reason, Jozy still doesn’t. Jozy at the end of the day is a Target forward, who can barely put the “target” in target forward, he loves to run onto balls over the top and that works great against low level concacaf teams. Dempsey can play target, wide, underneath, facing goal, back to goal, has touch and vision, can combine, get in behind, create and not to mention he whines a lot. To me, that doesn’t sound like Jozy Altidore. At all.

      • Louis Z

        “Aside that both have played the 9 by themselves, I don’t see any similarities.

        JA – At best has average speed.
        CD – Is as slow as molasses.”

        Ok so another way to say that is niether is a fast striker….. Which is what I said…

        JA – Has a terrible aerial game, he needs a blown coverage to score a gimmie.
        CD – Has a descent aerial game.”

        Again, niether is great in the air….. Again, this means they are similar, not the same.

        JA – Is not a very technical player, I think he only has one attacking move, and that is cut inside a shoot.
        CD – Has an arsenal of moves although at this stage of his game, the moves are slow and defenders get time to recover.”

        Ok, so you’d agree that one player only tries fancy flicks and the other tries fancy flicks and some fancy dribbles…. Which is exactly what I said and again very similar but not the same. Both are willing to try things one just tries more but still isn’t a ‘neymar’ type. So so far I’m 3 for 3 in showing how you’re only agreeing with me lol.

        JA – Will get foul and continue.
        CD – Will drop to the ground at the first sign of contact.”
        lol so assuming the ref calls each consistently wouldn’t this mean they both draw a lot of fouls?aka a similarity? Haha….

        JA – has a decent dead ball shot but doesn’t get to try it often enough.
        CD – Will try many times and connect every once in a while.”

        Cool so again, they both can shoot, one goes for power one goes for finesses….. Again pretty similar as in having good shots compared to not having good shots (like wondo… lol)

        JA – Has no idea where the ball is going to be.
        CD – Has a good sense where the ball is going to be.”

        Sounds a little subjective but sure buddy, now we’re discussing what a player knows in their head…… How strong is that argument really tho? Lol

        JA – is 6’1
        CD – is 6’2″

        Hm that’s pretty similar without being the same….

        And that is the closest you will get at these two being similar.”

        So you mean “DLOA, now that I look at the facts I concur, they are similar styles players with similar defecencies……”

        Cool glad we can politfully agree 🙂

      • Wham- no worries brother, perhaps my initial connect confused. I responded to someone saying that bringin bask jozy after he’s healthy would be a bad choice. I merely said he’s in prime position to take over for Clint. So I never said they were the same (tried to explicit say just that as well…hopefully this time it clicks).

        Here’s my point. Let’s say Clint retires after copa (unlikely but for arguments sake), let’s say zardes and Pulisic are battling for one wing spot. That leaves wood on the other wing spot (unless u go bedoya on the wing…) so then who plays centrally? Morris? Rubin? AJ? I believe jozy has the upper hand in those position battles due to talent.

        Now as for Clint and jozy being similar, what I mean is if the coach says “ok we need a striker that plays physical, looks to connect with his wingers, has a strong shot, is willing, at least slightly, to try fancy things, draws a lot of fouls which relieve pressure during the buildup, and is a solid veteran.” Well if Clint isn’t the answer then the next best person on the roster that fits that mold is jozy. So sure, the two players kind of go about doing that job in different ways (i.e., similar, not the same”), but they still are most comfortable in that role, more so than the others. Wood is good on outside slashing in, Morris is a lesser version of jozy that runs a little bit more. Rubin is more Charlie Davies/wood than a Clint/jozy. Same could be said for AJ. Clint and jozy are our most (perhaps only) good physical strikers. Their ‘means’ may vary slightly but the ‘end’ is similar: physical, pass happy, great shooting, slow strikers. This:

        SIMILAR BUT NOT THE SAME

        Thus leading me to question the original commenters statement that bringing jozy in after Clint would be a bad idea….

        Makes more sense?

        And re Costa: never said he has a low IQ. Just that he is selfish and isn’t likely to make that extra pass for an open teammate. Sometimes having a selfish striker is good. Jozy and Clint are not like that (which I brought up Diego to show that I wasn’t just describing 90% of intl strikers).

        Re: Suarez. Again, you acted like my list of traits were applicable to 90% of strikers so i listed two great intl strikers that don’t play similar to Clint/jozy. I could lost more if you really need me to? Lol. There as many different types of strikers. But the fact that both Clint and jozy are physical, relatively slow, pass happy, high soccer IQ, team oriented, solid passers and win a lot of fouls leads me to believe they are similar styles players where jozy could take the baton from Clint.

        One question, if jozy and Clint were our only strikers would you say they’re styles compliment each other as starters? I wouldn’t. Jozy will replace clints team presence and role and now that we have speedy guys to link with jozy it will be closer to the jozy/Charlie duo that had success

      • If I am being honest, no it doesn’t make more sense, you’ve backtracked and changed your narrative. I know you’re never wrong so we can just do the whole agree to disagree thing.

        Your last question- if Jozy and Clint were our only Strikers… It’s all relative, style, what formation, yadi yadi. I would say they aren’t the BEST compliment but I would have no problem with them being on the field together (assuming, like you said, they’re our only options). Ask yourself this, does Jozy compliment anyone really? That’s not a slight, an honest question. You think about Toronto, Gio beside him, still doesn’t get the job done.
        I don’t think anyone can replace Clints team presence(good and bad), he is a different breed and again that goes back to the difference in mentality, demeanor, ability. Jozy is a one trick pony and only in the right situation he can perform. I pull for Jozy I really do because you could always see the potential. I believe you will see the younger guys surpass Jozy, maybe then Jozy will become the ultimate impact sub?
        Basically when Clint is gone, if Jozy is expected to be the guy that can replace him and what he brings to the table we may be in big trouble my man. If Jozy can take a leadership role that is great but he will never fill clints shoes on the field.

      • DLOA, now you are taking the argument to the very basic to be correct, might as well say they are both from human species but is cool. We continue with the next discussion.

      • Wham, I appreciate debate so no worries. I think perhaps I’m being unclear in my exact point and you seem to be latching onto less important sections of my points; also I’m sure my comments have been long and disjointed being that I’m replying from my phone and it’s hard to scroll up to find the specific sections I’m referencing etc. sorry 🙂

        Who does jozy work well with? To answer honestly, Charlie Davies, wood, even zardes in a front 2. He actually does work with Seba well if you watch them play. It’s the TFC midfield that leaves something to be desired surely. Delgado, osorio, cheyrou(or his shell of his former self) haven’t really been the greatest consistently. Most of the attack stems from Bradley playing long balls….

        But the actual link play of Seba and joz is good. Several assists or passes leading to assists etc. they’ve been close friends from the start and it shows on the field.

        Back to the point tho. Jozy prefers a faster run-making partner. Clint is not that. Clint is more similar to jozy in the idea that he thrives with a speedier striker, esp in his older years. Sure they go about their games differently, but what they bring to the table has some certain overlap. Way more overlap than other players.

        Break the striker pool into ‘speed guys’ and ‘slower, more physical guys’. Clint and jozy have always been in the former category.

        Break the pool into “strong, physical” vs “smaller quicker players”. Same- both are the former.

        Break the pool into selfish vs unselfish. To me both are unselfish tho Clint can have tunnel vision (Jozy’s goal where Clint dribbled to long and had Pulisic open the whole time)

        Break them into wingers vs central. This is a tough one because both have and can play both positions but both players seem to prefer a central role.

        I think u see my point. Am I bein overly basic in my categories? I don’t think so. Just my perspective is less “what they do” and more “what they can do well and how that fits a certain system being used”

        Yes Clint has more ‘playground’ in him and jozy tends to pass too much when he should shoot. Clint has an edge. Jozy doesn’t play like you might imagine by looking at him. Yes they surely have differences but they surely have more in common with each other than some of the other strikers. THAT was my point… Never that “they are exactly the same in every way!” Lol 🙂

        Cheers

      • No I don’t see your point, I see what you’re trying to say, you don’t think Jozy and Clint should should be on the field together and Jozy will become the new Dempsey when he “expires”. Which I don’t agree with, clearly. I also notice you throw up a lot of smiley faces and passive aggressive words when you’re trying to deflect and back track. Not sure why I even engage, I need more self control.
        Cheers indeed.

      • So now you’re judging me based off your speculative assumption that someone else feels belittled by a comment of mine? Ok got it…

        Ok so now you’re positive that my smiley faces are passive aggressive rather than just a smiley face? Glad to know what I think. Got it… lol

        🙂

      • couldnt read this whole thread even though it was great seeing Dloa get rained on L….O……L…. Jozy and Dempsey are obviously not even close to similar besides the fact that they both score goals for us. One is a somewhat versatile/ technically capable player vs the other who gets by more on athleticism and plays better with his back to the goal.

        DLOA, every time u lol someone u sound really cool (in a 12 year old girl who just got the Internet kind of way).

  8. Everyone keeps qualifying Pulisic’s goal as “in the modern age” does that mean there was someone younger scoring for the US in the 30s? If so, why have I never heard of him?

    Reply
    • If I remember correctly, one of the commentators during the Bolivia game said that US Soccer did a poor job of record keeping pre 1990 so our records of the years before the “modern era” may be unreliable.

      Reply

Leave a Comment