It all happened very quickly, but both Ecuador and the U.S. Men’s National Team were reduced to 10 men in the blink of an eye in the second half of their Copa America Centenario quarterfinal on Thursday.
After seemingly winning a foul in the Ecuador half of the field, Antonio Valencia appeared to kick his foot out at U.S. midfielder Alejandro Bedoya, who conceded the free kick along the sideline. USMNT veteran Jermaine Jones then got involved in the play, and appeared to put his hands to the face of Michael Arroyo.
The Colorado Rapids midfielder was soon sent to the showers in the 52nd minute, while Valencia also received his marching orders simultaneously, despite some initial confusion.
Despite having a close view from the sidelines, U.S. head coach Jurgen Klinsmann wasn’t pleased with the Jones red card in the slightest.
“Unfortunately we lost Jermaine for the incident, which is an absolute joke, because it was right there and the fourth referee made the decision,” Klinsmann said following the 2-1 U.S. win. “Not the referee. The referee didn’t see it. He followed the advice off the fourth official out there and it’s a disgrace a decision like that.”
Jones will be missed for his tenacity and physicality in the U.S.’ defensive third, but the 34-year-old will also provide a gap in the team’s midfield because of his offensive output.
On Thursday, Jones played provider in Clint Dempsey’s opener against La Tricolor, while also adding a goal in the USMNT’s 4-0 rout against Costa Rica in the group stage.
On top of Jones’ red card and upcoming suspension for the team’s semifinals clash against either Argentina or Venezuela, the U.S. will be without fellow attackers Alejandro Bedoya and Bobby Wood after each player received their second consecutive yellow cards against Ecuador.
“We’re obviously going to be missing Ale Bedoya and Bobby [Wood] in the semifinals so it’s not easy but I think there’s a team that has so much desire to grind it out,” Klinsmann said.
The USMNT will have some good news though, as wing back DeAndre Yedlin will be eligible to return to the defense after sitting out Thursday’s match due to suspension.
Sooo… is the fact that contact wasn’t made matter? Because I swear I heard them say that if a player is not involved in the actual play, they cannot even make a motion or gesture like that toward the face. According to that, contact or not, its an automatic red.
Or is the fact that US is appealing the red, mean that top explanation is incorrect?
So by your logic/possible interpretation of the rule, you can’t point at someone if you’re not involved in the play?
Look, I get we are all trying to figure this out, but these things need be looked at with a macro lens. They need to be understood with regard to timing, intent, and situation. The referees, optimally, should be able to get it right on the field, but sometimes it is difficult without the benefit of slow mo replays. Forget about reading the exact rule. That action is not a red card, and if it is upheld, it is really dumb.
I was the first here to say that they should appeal (if possible), while everyone else was killing Jones for being “stupid” and not having “control”. If he remains suspended, whatever. Point is, that is not, and should never be, a red card.
… if the suspension holds, Jones will be a BIG MISS. I feel WE can cope without Bedoya with Zusi, but Woods and Jones are HUGE losses.
We may see Nagbe in for Jones, with Zardes moving up top for Woods, but I don’t know, based on how JK has set up the team thus far. I would not have picked Besler, but it worked. I’m not sure if WE will cope under the pressure, if Argentina is the opposition in the semi’s.
Wishing the lads all the best, do or die!
I would think WE will line up as follows …
…………… Guzan
Yedlin…. Cameron… Brooks … Besler
Johnson … Bradley… Nagbe… Zusi
…..Dempsey… Zardes
The super-slo-mo replay shows that Jones’s hand was headed toward the guy’s shoulder — as was his other hand — in a “calm down” gesture. Jones was even smiling. Then then guy shoves Jones’s arm aside, so even if it nicked his chin, it was not Jones’s action. In addition, if Jones did get the guy’s face, don’t you think he would have grabbed his face and droppe3d to the ground.
I was dreaming of seeing Jermaine Jones lay a crunching tackle into Messi… sigh…
Anybody who thinks that is a legitimate red card, regardless of the rules in place, is as soft as my duck feather pillow. Players put hands to others’ faces in games all the time. Is it stupid? Sure. Should they be doing it? Probably not. But it’s gamesmanship, and rarely even results in a straight red. I would argue it’s not even a yellow, but sure, in the heat of the moment with emotions running high, give him a yellow. A red is preposterous, especially after see that slow mo replay. Those of you saying it was a close-fist push/punch? Probably part of the new generation of soft parents.
Didn’t Messi basically choke a guy and not even get a card this season? These things shouldn’t happen, of course, but they do, all the time. And Jones should be smarter, sure. But if any of you softies have ever played in competitive games, you can’t judge behavior while relaxing on your sofa. In the moment it is difficult.
If the action or behavior is part of obvious scuffles, and is not close to causing an injury (such as a legit punch, bad choke, eye gouge, whatever), let it go.
Soft card as Jones has a habit of bringing up a hand and patting the guy on the neck or cheek. It was the other player that came at Jones which made his instinctive response appear to be some kind of push.
Before I comment on the red card, clarification regarding my thoughts on Jermaine Jones: In my opinion, in big games that he has been involved in for the USMNT, I think he’s the best overall field player we have ever had. Having said that, this move with his hand at Valencia’s face was absolutely idiotic, and, is a detriment to the team when they play presumed Argentina.
Regarding replacements for our missing crew: Nagbe needs to be in. I have noticed that a lot of commenters do no know what his strengths are, or how he usually plays. He is first and foremost a skilled, possession player. How many of those do we have? And, did we need that in the second half of the Ecuador game? I guess it depends on one’s viewpoint, however, I believe the best defense is to keep the other team from having the ball, something the US has never been able to do, but Nags is king at this.
Should it have been a red, should it not have been a red, and I understand it is the heat of the moment before I say this, but this presents a lesson that hopefully Yedlin learned in the Colombia game under different circumstances: in certain situations, keep your hands down or behind your back. You never know what a ref is going to see and what they are going to call. Don’t allow them the possibility of making that decision.
In case anyone was curious, Here are the Argentina players currently on yellows: Cuesta, Banega, Mascherano, Fernandez, Gaitan, Rojo, di Maria.
wow. they might actually end up worse off than we did. especially at the back, they’re really not that deep.
Plus Venezuela will probably turn the midfield into a slaughterhouse. Will Argentina keep their cool?
Plus the US will have two more days of rest.
Ives (on Goal.com) and SBNation are both saying Jones would be out for the tournament because this is purported “violent conduct.”
That would be totally ridiculous. I might just join up with the conspiracy theorists if that happened,
Jones was standing up for his man. Bedoya could have been seriously hurt by Valencia on that kick out. You want a guy that has your back out there.Jones is a warrior. Hope he wins his appeal.
It looks to me like Jones was going to put his hand in the other players face (like many players do) with no force at all, just putting it in his face, and the other guy slaps his arm forcing jones’ hand to fly to the side and barely, if at all touches the other player. If he made solid contact then the other player would have been on the floor holding onto his face like it fell off. How this is a straight red but bobby wood getting cleated in the chin on a flying boot is terrible.
Disappointing all the way around. I do not think it was a red card, not sure he actually touched the guy and when there are a bunch of players around any bump in the back pushes you into the guy you are yelling at. That said, Jones should know better. We keep praising him as the veteran leader, but if that is the case you need to know not to do anything stupid. He put his team in an awful position, and almost cost us big time.
You guys are so biased. It was closed fist and hit him right in the face. Only someone with complete blinders on can’t see that there was contact. I get it. We wish that there wasn’t contact but come on…both replays clearly show it. Maybe it was unintentional, but a boneheaded move nonetheless considering the circumstances. Even if it was just a yellow he would have been suspended next game anyways.
Agreed, he tried to be sneaky about it, but it happened. Hate it because Valencia was clearly going to be sent off, his kick at Bedoya was out of frustration and wasn’t really malicious, Ale was going to be ok. Ecuador was frustrated and we had them right where we wanted them, it was a dumb decision by JJ, worst case push him in the chest and back him off. Not to mention the ref continued play while JJ was still 50 yards from the tunnel and that is when Wood got his second yellow.
I stand corrected!!!!!!!!! Another website had a super slow motion replay of the incident. While it is still unclear whether JJ would have touched his face anyway, it was clear from the replay that the Ecuador player, in an attempt to swat JJs hands away from his face, actually hit JJs arm forcing it directly into his own chin. Mea Culpa Jermaine…FORGIVE ME!!
No kidding? Do you have a link? Maybe just maybe the card will be rescinded, I doubt it, but we can hope. I guess I should apologize too, sure looked like there was contact though it was minimal.
I don’t think they will let me link but it starts with Stars and ends with ripes. It’s in the article about the appeals.
Gracias
Bad call or not, there’s no need for Jones to get involved there. Could have hurt us last night, but definitely hurts for Tuesday. He’s a great player, but needs to keep his cool better.
Regarding the lineup, I’ve been wanting Nagbe on the field the last two games; hopefully he’ll get in on Tuesday.
Industry standard my whole watching life- never seen a red for that without an egregious dive/simulation involved. To completely alter a game and tourney for a team for THAT is utter nonsense. That said- JJ was pretty stupid. No need.
As much as I love Jones, I actually think Wood is the bigger loss for an Argentina matchup. His hold up play would be critical to try to maintain any possession at all. The threat over the top and on the counter- huge loss. I am actually inclined to think Nagbe is not such a bad call in the middle for that game. Lets face it, we will be chasing a lot, need rare chances at ball control against a swarming team and Nagbe, again, can burn on the counter.
Yedlin comes in so only 2 starters needed. He may put Yedlin in midfield. JK has already opined on USA’s youth. They are unproven and need to go overseas. Thus he has relied on veterans. Besler was a suprise starter so doubt any of us come up with ultimate lineup,
I believe the rule states that it’s an automatic red when a player away from the play(off the ball)makes contact with another players face. From the replay it looked like JJ barely grazed his face but the Ecuadorian player didn’t react after the supposed contact so I’m more inclined to believe he didn’t hit him. It should be appealed if possible bc losing Jermaine will leave a big hole in that midfield against the likes of a Argentina(assuming they make it through)
Not the only one either. DIdnt we lose Wood and Bedoya too? I have no idea how JK will come up with 3 different starters. Im guessing Beckerman for Jones, Zusi for Bedoya and no idea for Wood. It would be stupid to try and play Wondo in that role. Maybe the play a 4-5-1 with Nagbe in the middle somewhere? Guess that’s basically a 4-4-2
If I have any disappointment in this tournament it’t the lack of minutes for the two young skill players on the bench. This screams loud and clear that JK wants runners and bangers over skill players. In the end, this will take us only so far and it most likely ends against Argentina next week. We cannot beat them with bangers and down 3 starters to bood. Messi can take the night off
The young uns will get their time. And nobody expects us to defeat the Argentines. So I look at it as a learning experience and everything from Tuesday on is gravy.
Dempsey Zardes
FJ Nagbe Zusi
Bradley
Besler Cameron Brooks Yedlin
This lineup limits a loss of cohesion in the group
– Besler played left back last night and I thought did well
– FJ gets moved to Left mid. Still on the left side where he’s been most of the tournament. And isn’t this where he played at Gladbach anyway?
– Zusi starts where he’s pretty much been subbed in at 3 out of 4 games.
– Zardes preferrerd position is a striker. Only Klinsmann uses him as a wing player.
– Trial by fire for Nagbe
I like some of the ideas above, one tough thing about the loss of Bedoya is that he would have been key in the area of the field Messi likes to prowl. Not sure what Besler will do out there on him.
I like a classic 4-5-1 for just this game with the back 4+GK being what they were in games 1-3. Put Beckerman and Bradley in DM roles and lie up Zusi, Nagbe and Zardes across next. Cap it with Clint.
This gives you 9 field players who can defend. Zusi, Nagbe and Zardes can go end to end for days and give speed to the counter. Dempsey would be tasked with a lot of hold up and finishing.. Bradley would be a little more attack minded than he has been, but not an out and out attacker. Beckerman gives us essentially 5 Backs against a potent potent group.
“This screams loud and clear that JK wants runners and bangers over skill players. In the end, this will take us only so far and it most likely ends against Argentina next week. ”
WHAT!?
The Young Guns have to EARN their spot with not only Skill and IQ, BUT ALSO with grit and grind. That is the difference in being good and GREAT! Belgium has skill but lack heart… Turkey has quality but no grit… The Netherlands have soccer IQ but lack drive.
Each of those teams could win but are deficient. It takes it all… not one or the other.
The kids have skill and IQ and as soon as they can BEAT OUT the J. Joneses and Dempseys of our squad they can have a role in our squad.
I can see why the fourth official thought that. Was a chaotic situation with another guy getting a card in the scuffle. Anyone else think Paredes should have had a straight red for his assault on Wood?Somewhere around 64′
Yes, if merely motioning towards somebody’s face draws a red card it only seems fair that actually kicking somebody in the head (when you have no chance at fielding the ball) should draw a red card as well.
The rule is what it is. I get that but what bothers me is the lack of consistency on the nature and severity of the penalty.
In one case, a player can directly and intentionally kick at someone in the face or kick them as they are out of bounds and it’s a yellow, but having a perceived movement of a hand to a face is a Red.
Nobody seems to be able answer my question if they red can be appealed. Not only is the rule utterly ridiculous, but as already mentioned, I don’t even think contact was made. That isn’t even a foul in most games around the world, including my Sunday beer league, so it’s outrageous. Haven’t read the rule but if it says contact, not sure why it can’t be rescinded.
Don’t see how anyone can claim that’s a legit red. There are instances like this in virtually every game. Only reason I think it could be a yellow is because of the fiery situation in which it occurred. Ref bailed out Ecuador as they should have suffered due to legit two yellows.
Looks like the US is considering appeal. That is good news.
We all knew that sooner or later Jones was going to do something like that in an important game. There was absolutely no need for it. We could’ve been playing a man up for the remainder of the game.
It was a nonsense call by the 4th official and he didn’t even touch the guy. The angle shown on the broadcast is not the best angle.
Doesn’t matter whether he touched the guy or not, according to the new rule.
i didn’t think it was controversial at all. he smacked/pushed the guys face; it’s an automatic red, no matter if it’s the center ref, linesman, or 4th official who sees it. what they got wrong (among other things) was that valencia should’ve also gotten a straight red.
NO he didn’t. There are several alternative angles out there to view but on the main highlights on youtube fox soccer channel you can see he doesn’t even make contact with the guy.
I’m not positive. But I thought I heard that the official rule is, if a player is not involved in the actual play, he can’t even make a motion/gesture toward the face, or else it’s a straight red.
I guess had Bedoya jumped back up and done the same thing, it wouldnt have been a red??
sorry, i said that wrong — “he smacked/pushed *at* the guy’s face”. mac’s right: contact isn’t required for it to be a sending off.
we can talk about how it’s a dumb rule, but there was nothing controversial about that call (unlike a lot of the other calls last night).
I saw it the first time and reply confirmed it! Little contact was made but Jones had a closed fist that grazed the opposing player. What was he thinking? Tough guys let there play speak for them not after the whistle b.s.
I also thought it was red UNTIL another website had a super slow motion replay of the incident. While his hands were near the face, it didn’t look like there was going to be contact or certainly not the level of contact that actually occured, until the Ecuador player swatted JJs arm in an attempt to get it away from his face and actually ended up swatting it directly into his own chin.
Jones plays with ferocity perhaps only matched by Dempsey in attitude and drive. Unlike others, I’ll take this momentary lapse in judgment while acknowledging the countless matches he’s the difference maker between winning and losing because of that very mentality.
On the horizon, it looks like Brooks may be passed that torch, too. I’ve noticed he also plays with that same aggression and teams need it. Not all 23 need it, but you need some lions on your side.
I agree 1000 %
Having lions on defense is a bit scary lol….Brooks has been amazing though
Ugh, seems like the refereeing in Copa is so much inferior to that of the Euro tournament
If you saw last years Copa this wouldn’t surprise you.