Good afternoon all. As you await the start of today’s Champions League matches, here are some interesting news tidbits from the world of Major League Soccer.
Before we get to the news, here is my column in Tuesday’s Herald News on how the Red Bulls should approach the Wilman Conde situation. In short, Juan Carlos Osorio shouldn’t go overboard when it comes down to making an offer for Conde. Yes, Conde is a quality defender, but Osorio can’t risk weakening his roster too much. Another interesting tidbit from the column comes in the Red Bulls notes. The Red Bulls are shopping Liberian forward Francis Doe.
Now, onto some news from Colorado, Houston and Toronto:
Reinaldo in Colorado’s sights
Hoping to repeat the success enjoyed by D.C. United last year when it signed Australian-based Brazilian Fred, the Colorado Rapids have jumped into the chase for forward Reinaldo and appear to have first crack at him. James Edward, Real Salt Lake’s top beat writer, spoke to RSL general manager Garth Lagerwey, who stated that Colorado has a discovery claim on Reinaldo.
Yes, you read that right. Apparently Colorado is interested in the Brazilian striker, which means the Rapids may actually spend some money. Between that revelation, and this morning’s word that New England was lining up to use its designated player slot, I’m half expecting to see frogs start falling from the sky.
Toronto takes look at new faces
Toronto FC will bring in veteran Portuguese forward Joao Pinto and Colombian defender Julian Barragan for trials this week. Pinto and Barragan join Colombian playmaker Johnnier Montano and Dutch winger Kiki Musampa on the list of foreign trialists TFC is looking at. One source said the club is also set to look at a Portuguese defender.
Mo Johnston is desparate for an attacking midfielder more than anything else. Will Montano be that player? I think he can be. The real questions are whether Pinto has anything left, and whether a player who once punched a referee in anger should really come to MLS.
That’s all for now. Share your thoughts on any of these stories below.
Houston ponders Dynamo stadium deal
The city of Houston has offered more than $15.5 million to buy land that could be used to build a Houston Dynamo stadium. The city still has to approve the deal AND the city and Dynamo still have to reach an agreement on a stadium. In other words, a stadium is still off in the distance but at least there is something moving in that direction.
I guess I should say, finally, that I think Doe projects at best as a second forward on a bad team or a third forward on a good team. I think he could someday be a 6-8 goal scorer. Whether this warrants keeping him around is a matter of opinion. I personally see 4 better forwards on the Red Bulls and don’t see him getting enough first team action to develop and reach his full potential. So I guess I should say, in the end, I think he could be a useful player, but I wouldn’t be upset about losing him, even if he goes elsewhere and fulfills that potential.
Also, aristotle, I don’t recall Doe ever playing attacking midfield.
Aristotle: Doe only played 8 games, so there wasn’t a huge sample of “early” or late games. His passing was better in the later games than the early games, I agree, but that was more because he was at least making the effort to pass, not because his passing was effective. There’s a difference between learning to be unselfish and pass the ball and actually being a useful passer. Eddie Johnson isn’t selfish, but we all know what his passes accomplish.
Doe is able to get into good positions with his speed, but his ball skills are erratic. He occasionally made nice cutbacks to free himself up, but had a greater tendency to lose the ball. He showed no ability to shoot from distance and often flubbed chances close – in fact, he often had trouble just getting shots off. In addition he’s of slight frame and offers little in the air. Most of the time when he was hooking up well with Angel, it was Angel deftly setting him up with flicks and clever passes – almost never the other way around.
I think that overall, Doe’s play last year was characterized by being enticing but frustrating some of the time, and being entirely absent some of the time. People tend to forget that there were more than a few halves when he just didn’t show up. I think that the kid has some upside, but I don’t think he’s skilled enough to be a significant goal scorer in MLS. It’s perfectly reasonable to say that he’s 5th at the forward depth chart for the Red Bulls. I personally like Wolyniec, a proven goalscorer off the bench, more than Doe, but even if you disagree with that, it’s hard to disagree that he’s behind Angel, Altidore, and Etcheverry at this point.
I’m glad that Colorado, Toronto FC and New England are stepping up to the plate to invest in additional talent.
Joamiq:
You and I must see different things while watching Francis Doe play, and it’s kind of silly to say that:
“The guy couldn’t link up with Angel or anyone else for that matter – he is utterly incapable of passing the ball.”
I know what I saw. I think you judged him way too quickly. Your description of him is probably accurate if you just watched his early games, but he was clearly evolving. Probably because of his coach telling him he was doing just what you were describing. He improved greatly as far as being selfish and not passing the ball, and DID start to hook up well with Angel over a period of several games. If he continued on that path I think he could be a valuable player. As far as him being fifth just at the forward position, that’s a little ridiculous. Most of NYRB’s players are journeymen players at best.
All news out of Chicago states that Conde is accepting the situation as best he can and is still training with the team. He knows tanking it or throwing a temper tantrum will not help his cause. He would pretty kill any chance of ever going to Europe or playing for his national team.
Conde will not be going to NJ and he will play for Chicago this season. Our idiot GM is no longer in charge of these decisions anymore. I think the owners feel he screwed up so badly on the Osorio deal they can’t trust his judgement. Frank Klopas has the final say. Klopas is a smart man. No way in hell anything less than Dane Richards will even be considered. Offering us high salaried crap players will not help your cause at all. If the NJ Metrobulls really want this to happen they will offer us up an all star caliber player. Either one of their own or finding a third team to make this happen.
Oh, and Kiki Musampa is Dutch, of Congolese descent
A few things:
1. Mendes proved last year that he is a very good central defender. None other than our man Ives thought he deserved to be an All-Star last year. If you assumed (for standardization’s sake) that all teams in the league played with 4 man back lines, Mendes would probably start for the vast majority of them. Parke is not quite a standout, but is a solid veteran MLS defender who limits his mistakes. He would probably start for close to half the league. I can’t think of a single MLS teams that wouldn’t love to have either on the bench. People who think they wouldn’t make many MLS starting lineups obviously don’t watch them or the rest of MLS enough. Don’t mistake a lack of media buzz for a lack of ability.
2. Drew, Ted: The defense started the year overwhelmingly strong. Its subsequent failures were not the fault of Mendes and Parke but rather were due to
a. the trade of Dunivant for Goldthwaite
b. the injuries to the entire back line (but especially Freeman)
c. the mediocrity of Leitch
d. the lack of ANY defensive cover (Goldthwaite, Leitch, Freeman, Mendes, and Parke were the only defenders on the roster for most of the year, meaning NY often had to start two middies in the back due to injuries)
e. the injury and subsequent failure to return to form of Waterreus
Before all of these things went wrong, the defense began the season with an MLS record shutout streak.
3. Aristotle: I have NO problem with shopping Doe. The guy couldn’t link up with Angel or anyone else for that matter – he is utterly incapable of passing the ball. He could occasionally get himself into dangerous positions, but that’s it. He’s not very talented and he’s the 5th choice forward on the Red Bulls.
No, not a Belgian…nope.
If Chicago offers Conde for Richards, as a RB fan I’d take it in a heartbeat. Richards is a fast, yet average soccer plyer. He has no idea what to do with the ball and lacks touch. His crossing stinks and he dribbles himself out of bounds at least twice a game. The newest version of Miles Joseph if you ask me. I’d get Conde and take a chance on Doe. He showed enough in limited appearances to make me think that he wouldn’t be a huge dropoff from the average Dane.
I don’t see why people rate Parke and Mendes so high… If thy weren’t the problem on D, then what was? Nobody played well in the back four last year, with the exception of Stammler when he was rotated back.
I’d say they are average defenders, but they don’t compare with the Parkhursts, Robinsons or Conrads of the league.
Conde would be a serious step up in talent on the defensive side of the ball. RBNY shouldn’t trade away too much to get him because his inclusion wouldn’t change too much. Probably more than any other aspect of the game, defense has to be played by a team. Sliding in an All-Star caliber centerback will help, but it’s not going to change too much.
Could this this portugues defender TFC are looking at be Nuno Valente? He will be out of contract with Everton come season end!
I stand by my list.
My rationale is that many of the holdovers on those teams are mediocre to poor players, and though many teams have added rookies or acquired some new players, you never know whether or not these guys will pan out. Parke and Mendes are proven MLS players. Are they stars? Absolutely not, but they are reliable vets.
I can understand that some may doubt their ability since the RB defense is often leaky, and while they bare some culpability in that, there are numerous reasons beyond those two as to why that is. Ives could write an entire post on what was wrong with the defense last year, but I am comfortable saying that Parke and Mendes played fairly well for the most part.
Musampa is Belgian, I think from the Congo… I’m pretty sure I remember that from his days at Man City. (He’s a pretty good player at times)
I gave Juan Carlos Osorio the benefit of the doubt up to now because he seemed to do a pretty good job with Chicago last year, but now I am really beginning to wonder if Chicago isn’t better off without him.
I appreciate that he probably knows latin players better, and he can certainly build his team around them if he wants to, but I am beginning to think that he is doing it to the detriment of his team.
RBNY has so little talent that they really can’t afford to be wasting it. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought Doe showed real promise as an attacking midfielder and in particular was was really starting to link up well with JPA. I don’t think he has much value right now but I think it’s quite possible he could be much more valuable after this season.
If Doe is being shopped around I think it’s more likely they are just getting rid of him for very little. I wonder if Osorio would be doing this if Doe was a latin player. RBNY has so little. They lost Joe Vide and now probably Francis Doe. I guess it’s all about the mighty Reyna again. I really am starting to feel sorry for RBNY fans.
does anyone know who new england is looking at to bring in as their dp? it sounds great
look…josh is talking to himself!!! 😉
“Josh, here’s a list of teams either Parke or Mendes could start for, excluding Chicago who would be on this list otherwise:”
LA – true, but they did just trade for vanney, sign babyaro and draft two defenders
Dallas – Doubtful, there is one spot open in the back 3, and i dont think either of them is better than Dallas’ current options
Toronto – I would disagree with this. I think they drafted good defenders, and are still looking at others..plus marshall and boyens arent worse than parke and mendes..I would say they are equals
RSL – I said other than RSL
New England – No
KC – Agreed, but only because I have no idea who is on that team anymore
DC United – No, they just signed two guys to add to their current roster
San Jose – No, they spent their early focus on those defensive positions”
You would have to be a complete homer to think that either of those guys would start on most of the the teams you listed, allow me to provide my thoughts above. Look I get this is a NY/NJ focused blog, but you guys can’t have such blinders on about a couple of defenders on a mediocre team
Let’s see….Conde is “the perfect player to fill the team’s most pressing need”, but they should only give up a choice of two fair MLS players at best to get the guy?
honest question here – considering NY had the best forward tandem in the league, can it be safely assumed that they didn’t do better last year b/c their defense was subpar? isn’t that an indictment on the play of parke & mendes?
why would the fire want to trade it’s 2nd best player for anything less than ny’s 3rd best (richards)? just as ny doesn’t want to overpay, chicago doesn’t want to give conde away just for depth. i suppose i get your point ives, but there’s always a counterpoint in these negotiations…which is probably why conde is still w/the fire.
@Josh,
I agree Parke or Mendes would be valuable to most MLS teams, but most likely in backup roles.
To think they could step into many, let alone most, MLS lineups borders on delusional.
Josh, here’s a list of teams either Parke or Mendes could start for, excluding Chicago who would be on this list otherwise:
LA
Dallas
Toronto
RSL
New England
KC
DC United
San Jose
These guys are not future national team defenders, but they are good MLS defenders and they would be valuable to most MLS teams. And neither have huge cap numbers which adds to their value.
Posted by: Mark | February 19, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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Forgive me for any typos …. it is hard to see straight as I am laughing so hard. You need to get a clue if you think that they would start for half of those teams.
Pretty excited about all these trials, little skeptical of Pinto tho (tho there have been quite a few people who suggest otherwise).
My god this season may turn out brilliantly for TFC.
Josh, here’s a list of teams either Parke or Mendes could start for, excluding Chicago who would be on this list otherwise:
LA
Dallas
Toronto
RSL
New England
KC
DC United
San Jose
These guys are not future national team defenders, but they are good MLS defenders and they would be valuable to most MLS teams. And neither have huge cap numbers which adds to their value.
Based on the few games I have seen Parke and Mendes play in, I am struggling to name many teams they would start for outside of NY. I think both are avg in skills, and neither have blinding pace or big size. I dont think either would start for Chicago in particular, and this is a Dallas fan, really the only team I could see would be RSL. Even Dallas, with as poor of defense as we had, those two would both be on the bench.
I don’t really care if RBNY gets Conde or a similar player in terms of on-the-field performance, BUT it will be GREAT if we get him for , say, Leitch & Magee & a bag of magic beans, just to see the posts by Papa Bear, Khan, & the rest of the kilbasa gang. That could be some classic stuff.
Toronto is heating up. Isn’t Huckerby (sp?) coming in as well? From drought to flood in under a week!
It looks very exciting for us in T.O.
TFC seems to be taking a huge step forward with trial players – I noticed Kiki Musampa was playing in one of their recent pre-season matches. Hopefully he can get signed and strengthen TFC’s sides.
Wow, Mo is getting serious. And good for Colorado.
Ives, I agree completely on Conde…he dug this hole himself. RBNY should adamantly refuse to overpay for him and whatever happens, happens.
The more this drags on the more overrated he becomes. Not that he isn’t a good player, but he’s not as good as this whole mess is starting to make him seem.
Ives,
Do you really rate those RBNY defenders over Robinson? Since I imagine the Fire will play a 3-5-2 again because of all the defensive mids we have. So you could pencil in Sagares and Brown in and really if Conde left I would think Robinson would step into the starting role
I think NY should trade Angel, Altidore, the new stadium, and a log of taylor ham for Conde. It only seems fair.
“Between that revelation, and this morning’s word that New England was lining up to use its designated player slot, I’m half expecting to see frogs start falling from the sky.”
Next thing you know, Houston will sign a designated player!
Yeah, Fernando texted me awhile back and now I have a claim on me. I almost was considered a youth academy player, but then MLS found out Colorado wasn’t LA or NE so the rules couldn’t be bent.
Fuego, I think Conde is a great player but once an MLS team gives up more than two quality players in a deal it will affect their depth and roster strength. You and your fellow Fire fans may not rate Dema Kovalenko, Seth Stammler, Carlos Mendes or Jeff Parke but all four are solid veteran players who could start for a lot of teams.
And I never said the Fire should take a certain offer from the Red Bulls, just that the Red Bulls should be careful not to overpay and wind up offsetting the value that adding Conde would bring.
“could someone explain the discovery claim system”
Each team can file 9 discovery claims per year. When a player signs for the league (or wants to) he goes to the team that placed a discovery on him. IF more than one team wants the player, it goes to the team highest up the list- usually which ever team finished worse off last season. Teams can pass on signing the player if they are higher up on the list and don’t want him.
ok, how about a 3-way trade, send Doe to SJ (they need forwards), SJ sends an extra defender to Chicago, and Chicago sends conde to NY. Some money and or draft picks and maybe some other players to even things up.
“In short, Juan Carlos Osorio shouldn’t go overboard when it comes down to making an offer for Conde. Yes, Conde is a quality defender, but Osorio can’t risk weakening his roster too much.”
Conde is better and more valuable than all but two Red Bulls, Angel and Altidore. “Can’t risk weakening his roster too much” how? By trading players of lesser value for one with substantially more ability?
Can someone explains this ridiculous discovery claim system, and why MLS has it? What keeps a team from filing a claim on every player playing in South America or Europe?
If we (The Rapids) spend some money on a goal scorer then things are definitely changing in the Mile Hile city, with the solid defence of last year, the best reserve team and Brazilian we may just be building something here that the rest of the MLS may have to pay attention to.
Hasn’t Kiki Musampa also been trialling with Toronto?