The Red Bulls pursuit of Chicago defender Wilman Conde has reached a new level.
According to sources within Major League Soccer, the Red Bulls have included midfielder Dane Richards in a large offer to Chicago for Conde, an offer the Fire appears to have turned down.
This word comes just four days after Conde went public with a request to be traded to the Red Bulls in order to be reunited with his long-time coach, Juan Carlos Osorio.
News of Richards’ inclusion in a trade offer for Conde comes as surprise after Red Bulls officials had spent the off-season identifying Richards along with Juan Pablo Angel and Jozy Altidore as three players the club would not trade under any circumstances.
The runner-up for MLS rookie of the year honors in 2007, Richards had been seen as a perfect right midfield option for the Fire but there is a growing belief among league observers that Chicago has no intention of trading Conde.
If not Richards, then who? If Chicago won’t accept a package including Dane Richards then the Red Bulls and Fire are unlikely to be able to complete a Conde trade. One source within the league believes that Chicago ownership has essentially put up a ‘Not For Sale’ sign on Conde, particularly with regard to the Red Bulls.
Conde is in Florida training with the Fire and has yet to do anything more than issue his public trade request on Saturday. It remains unclear whether the Colombian defender is prepared to hold out in order to facilitate a trade, or a potential transfer out of MLS.
What do you think of this development? Fire fans, would you take a package of Dane Richards, Jeff Parke or Carlos Mendes, a first-round draft pick and cash for Conde? Red Bulls fans, would you give that up for Conde? Neutral observers, do you think Chicago is crazy or smart for turning down a package incuding Richards?
Share your thoughts below and PLEASE keep it civil (looking at you Red Bulls and Fire fans).
RBNY…WALK AWAY…lets stick with the guys we have and add an attacking mid…we need some sort of consistency with our players…
Tough call. I do think this is a fair offer, if not in favor of the Fire. The main problem as I see it is the Fire need a strong defensive side as their offense was horrible last year and hasn’t yet proven itself to be much better (I think it has, but we haven’t exactly brought in the 2nd coming of Emilio). Furthermore, we lost our #1 keeper and need to be strong to protect our goal. Our bread and butter was our D last year, so to severely weaken it would be a major hit.
That said, I’d probably do this deal if I were the Fire GM. I’d do right by my player (hopefully gaining some goodwill with players that may look to come to Chitown in the future), upgrade the r-mid slot, grab some needed depth for the D, add $ to search for a differnt int’l defensive player and grab a 1st rounder to stay strong going forward. I think ultimately I’d take the risk (weakening the d and making NY really good) and would make this trade…..although I can see why the Fire mgmt wouldn’t want to.
Ives,
In your MyHerald piece about not overpaying for Conde you state that Mendes and Parke could both start for Chicago. I’m sorry, but is not the case. It is possible that Parke could take Conde’s spot if he left, but the defense would be much weaker. Mendes wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of beating out Brown, Segares, and Robinson this season. Maybe if one of them was hurt, but the Fire have a few guys ready to step in if need be.
Isn’t Conde 25 and Richards 24 about to be 25?
furia yanqui:
I pretty much agree that at this moment, Richards is over rated – he does not cross well at all and he has no left foot (i.e. can’t cut back across the middle effectively).
However, I do believe that he will improve considerably in those areas this year.
He ended last year a MUCH better and more dangerous player than when he started – i guess he has a good practive work ethic.
It’s a solid deal on the Chicago front. I would strongly consider making it.
But if Rolfe really is moving to right mid and the strikers perform, then the biggest weakness is in the back and Conde is the linchpin there.
However, you pick up Parke or Mendes AND Richards and Chicago could seriously go 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 and have both Rolfe and Richards on the field at the same time. That bears some consideration.
I think if I were Chicago I’d pull the trigger on this deal.
Wow. If this is true, I would have taken that offer in a heartbeat. If I were a RBNY fan, I would be sighing in relief that Richards wasn’t taken away.
If Conde’s contract is done at the end of the year, then Chicago should go for the trade. Who cares if they look weak for making the deal now. If they don’t trade him, they will lose him at the end of the season and not get anything in return. That is when they will look stupid. three years from now, Conde will be long gone (unless he is playing under JCO in Philly or something) and Richards is running by the Fire on the wing creating the game winning goal against them in the playoffs. I think Dane will be a player like Jeff Cunningham. Around the league for a long time, always one of the top players, but probably won’t get the respect he deserves. Chicago, take Dane, a draft pick and some cash. Then use the cash for a new center back.
kpugs:
I think you might be wearing those proverbial rose colored glasses. You seem to overrate Park, yet can’t see the value of Conde. I’m not agreeing with a lot of the Chicago fans here who seem to think Conde is some kind of superstar, but I definitely think he is good.
Maybe I am being too harsh about Park, but whenever I watch NYRB, (and that’s quite a bit) I never seem to find myself thinking he is playing great. The whole NYRB defense just seems blah. Maybe he’s just getting lost in the middle of it.
Our offense relied on Richards so much last year. His speed enabled others to get open…granted he often did very little once he got past a defender, but we needed him last year. Who would Osorio replace him with even if we did trade him because there is no one on the roster that can do as good a job as Richards did last year.
Based on some training camp reports, it doesn’t appear that Conde is all THAT unhappy with the Fire. I’m sure he’d like to join up with JCO but perhaps the Fire believe that he’ll be content enough to stay and contribute.
Steve, I’m a neutral fan, and I just don’t see all the hoopla about Conde. Is he a good player? He seemed to be a pretty good player. But were his 7 games indicative of someone who is worth the number 2 guy in rookie of the year, a first round pick, a 2nd player, money …… and in some circles people even asking for an international spot to boot? That’s nuts. Because NY has a need for defenders, I would make the Richards/Conde swap if I were NY. However, in a vacuum, Conde and Richards seem to be two players of equal value (at best for Chicago). Giving the Fire something more for Conde would be a mistake for NY.
Depending on the particulars, this is a deal I would would have strongly considered. However, it is being reported that Chris Rolfe might be moved to the right midfield spot permanently. Considering the glut of forwards the Fire seem to have suddenly and this revelation (if it is true), then the hole Richards would have filled is no longer the gaping problem it previously was.
With a drop in talent between the pipes, Chicago’s only real need is to keep together a strong defense. Losing Conde would require acquiring a replacement, and while doable, isn’t necessary while they have him.
Reports from training seem to indicate that Conde is going to be a professional and fulfill his contract (nobody seems to be sure what exactly the terms are) with the Fire. If so, then the Fire are right to be content with their roster and turn down offers that aren’t exceptional from NYRB.
Basically this offer shows the Fire to be in the drivers seat and proves it will be their decision when and how to deal Conde.
Furia, Conde is something like 3 years older than Richards and has played, what, less than 10 games in the league?
Don’t give me that crap, Richards seems to improve every game and his ceiling is way up there.
Conde has reached his ceiling. Comparing them is ridiculous, even though Richards currently isn’t “great.”
Aristotle, Jeff Parke has been the most consistent player for this team for the past four years my friend. Just because he’s not Oguchi Onyewu doesn’t make him inconsistent. He’s a solid, reliable, above average MLS center back with a knack for clutch tackles–nothing more, but definitely nothing less.
Mendes I agree is quite inconsistent.
RB fans are saying that Conde is not so good … But what of Richards? Is he so great? Yes, he is fast, a scary dribbler in fact, but he seems to have no shot and no crossing ability. I think we have yet to learn if he truly is the next Beasley or the next Johnny Torres.
He has been a pro for all of one year. (In contrast, Conde has played in the Copa Libertadores). Let’s see if he doesn’t go thru a sophomore slump.
Make all you want of Conde being a malcontent, but look at today’s Chicago Tribune — he is already trying to make nice. I suspect JCO tampered, talked Conde into doing all this for his own selfish purposes, all the while promising Conde more money in NY … and now we will see if JCO’s plot will come to fruition.
David:
I just don’t see it. I think Richards will be even better this year, and will be one of NYRB’s most important players. I see Park and Mendes as average at best, if they ever settle into any consistent form at all. Besides, Richards can be so much fun to watch. You take your eye off him for a second and he can be running in on the goal.
Just leave him be, let Chicago keep him. Please Mr. Osorio, please. If he wants out that bad let him go play in some other country, don’t trade your firstborn children for this guy.
I’m a TFC fan, living in Illinois, with a burning hatred for all Chicago sports teams, especially the Fire. If this offer was real, then once again the brain trust of a Chicago team has demonstrated they know not what they do.
This is unbelievable. Uneffingbelievable. First we overcompensate those whining fools for a coach THAT DIDN’T WANT TO BE THERE.
Now we are going to overcompensate them for a defender who’s best quality is that he’s left-footed?
Unless I was watching some other Wilman Conde play for Chicago last year, this is a complete and utter joke and all we have done so far this offseason is make the Chicago Fire a BETTER TEAM. Is Alexi Lalas still secretly pulling the strings here in Jersey?
As a Fire fan, that’s the player I wanted all along. I think Richards would slot really well on the right side of our midfield, and if Conde doesn’t want to be in Chicago, ship him out.
Queensman – I don’t think that Conde is the best defender in the league, but he is IMO included amongst the best.
To inkedAG, if Conde’s contract is due to expire after this year, the Fire would still possess his MLS rights for 2 more years. So just waiting for the offseason won’t work.
btw – take into consideration also that Jozy and Dane are best friends on the team. Maybe Dane has some pull to stay . . .
Conde appeared to solve a lot of problems for the Fire. Richards was great last year and may have an even bigger upside. Parke’s been inconsistent, but definitely would play a role on the backlines of most MLS teams. In the abstract, Conde on one hand is outweighed by Richards/Parke/cash/first round pick.
But would they help *Chicago* in particular? That’s the only question that matters. And frankly, I’m not certain. Chicago’s backline was an absolute mess before Conde.
aristotl – Parke is super underrated. And Doe, though he did show us flashes last year, was still unproven on the pitch in my eyes, so i am a bit to the DONT CARE camp when it comes to Doe. Mendes, I will grant you, is blown up in my mind to a better defenseman than what he may be. But he was solid all season, and for MLS, he is up there in the ranks.
In summation – Doe: no attachment, leave as you wish. Richards: Dont wanna give up unless the deal makes us measurabley better. Conde – Worth a look and sacrifice if we can land him.
THAT trade is exactly what I mentioned on your earlier Blog entry on Monday Ives.
Richards, some other player, 1st round draft choice and cash is what I thought would be an acceptable and reasonable deal for our team.
I’m not sure the deal is totally dead if RBNY offers enough/more cash. Richards definitely needs to be part of the deal, along with the 1st round draft pick. But HOW MUCH cash is probably the deal maker or breaker.
Throwing in Mendes, Dema or Park will also be necessary but not the main ingredients needed for a deal. Richards, 1st rounder and enough cash to help sign one of our several international trialists will make the deal work.
If that happens, I’d say adios Conde, and good luck when RBNY fires JCO if he doesn’t get the team to the MLS Finals.
wow..i’m glad this was rejected by chicago. keep the damn team and improve on it JCO.. don’t start ripping it apart piece by piece in order to get new players.
I think all that is needed is patience.
I read the threads the other day and if memory serves, Wilman Conde is under contract for only this upcoming season. Once the season is over, his obligation is fulfilled and he can go wherever he wants. Despite NY’s history, I believe JCO will be here for the 2009 season. So, when Conde is free, snatch him up. No need to give Chicago a thing and in a year’s time, we get who we want. Why break up our team for one player? If RBNY were to get Conde, it does not automatically mean a spot in MLS Cup. And if we were to get him and he has a spell where he doesn’t play up to expectations, the amount of bitching and the amount of Fire guffawing will know no bounds! Why take that risk? There’s a lot of games and a lot of other players involved who will get the team to the Cup, if we even get there at all.
As Metro/RBNY fans, we are used to writing off seasons. While this situation is not a write-off, I am sure that there is someone on the team currently who can play Left back and do it reasonably well and then, when the time is right and Chicago is out of the playoffs, Wilman is ours. Win-win, no?
I would hate to see Richards go. I cant see why Chicago will keep Conde thou, why keep a player that does’nt want to play for you. That can mean problems for them on the field, ruin team chemistry, etc…
That may be a fair deal on paper.
In reality, however, I think it is invaluable to have a strong center back, not only to anchor the defense but also to build the attack calmly from the back forward. There are precious few players like that around here –just look at our national team, where against the best teams our defenders can only destroy opposition attacks and hoof the ball out of bounds.
Conde, for me, is equal or even better than Bocanegra and Onyewu in this sense. The only better center backs I have seen in MLS are guys like Lubos Kubik, Marcelo Balboa or Eddie Pope at his best.
The only drawback is if he is unhappy and doesn’t play to his best abilities. Maybe the Fire’s public declaration of love for him now will placate the big baby who has been crying for his favorite blankie.
Chicago fans are nuts. I keep reading about Fire fans expecting a kings ransom for Conde. The fact is that Conde is the one who wants out, not NY who is begging for him. Add to that fact that Chicago seems to want DP value from a guy noone had ever heard about at this time last season, and who played a TOTAL of 7 regular season games last year, getting tossed out of 1 of them.
Now they are suddenly claiming that he is the best defender in the league. Absolutely laughable. Weren’t the Galaxy fans claiming that Abel Xavier was the best defender in the league after his first 7 appearances last year? A few appearences later, and most of them would now dump him on the side of the street for Greg Vanney. Fire fans are delusional.
Wow. I’m glad NYRB was turned down! (Idiots!)While I’m sure Chicago means to be mean by doing this because of what happened with Osorio, they have actually helped NYRB a lot. I think if NYRB trades Richards, they will not only be a dull team, (I mean even more!) they will have a good chance of being last years RSL. I think they are looking pretty bad right now, as it is.
This was Richard’s rookie year, and when he was on, he was exciting to watch and he caused havoc. There are very few players of this type in the league. I like Conde, but don’t take what could be the best part of your midfield and give that away. How are Altidore and Angel going to get the ball, just through Reyna’s dazzling service? I’m disliking Osorio more each day.
I can’t believe someone said they are willing to give up Richards AND Doe in a trade, but not Park or Mendes! I have to agree with Fire fans on one thing, a lot of NYRB fans seem to be delusional about Mendes and Park! For crying out loud, they were on the bench quite a bit at times. How good are you when you can’t crack NYRB’s defense? I’d give up Park AND Mendes before I would let Richards go! Even Doe has a good chance of helping more than Park or Mendes. It’s amazing how we all watch the same games and can see things so differently. I don’t have a bias either way if anyone is wondering.
Trex – Richards for Conde doesn’t make the Fire better than they would be if they kept Conde and put Rolfe or one of the intl invitees on the right.
As a Red Bull Fan, I wouldn’t lose sleep over the offer that was on the table, but at the same time I am starting to agree with others who said I think we should walk away at this point. Especially if they don’t accept a Richards package. Talk about holding a grudge by the Fire front office. If I were a Fire fan I’d want them to do whatever they could to make the team better. If they decided this trade wouldn’t do that that’s one thing, but if they are just blindly saying “Not for sale” that is ignorant and short changing the Fire fans IMO. What are we in grade school again??
I am with J1m… Just walk away from this deal JCO! PLease!!
I think it is all bad Karma.
I think Osorio should back off now and focus on building his team without Conde. I think he is nuts for even considering Dane Richards. He was a rookie last year, this year should be his year to make an impact.
i don’t think he should do it.
As a Fire fan the latest offer was acceptable.
maybe too late for as the fire now have intl wingers in camp (besides signing Frankowski).
However it seems Hauptman is rightfully stepping up to the plate and waving his middle finger at the tampering N J Metro Bulls.
I cant imagine NJ offering anything better.
This means 2 things:
1. The Fire deem Conde invaluable and thus eyeing a legitimate championship run (Conde should realize its more legitimate than NJ’s).
2.The bad blood between the clubs is at a boiling point to where even a miraculous Juan Pablo inclusion would be turned down.
If no trade goes through, its no harm no foul. Conde is considered a big name already in the league. So he will be looked at as such by the current roster.
If they are looking at giving up so much, maybe j1m is right.
Osorio might want to keep in mind that offering a bunch of your current players for one former player is not likely to garner much loyalty in your new team. If no trade goes through what are these guys to think?
I think New York should walk away from this. Let’s find another player with Conde’s talent and bring him to the league. It’s better for everyone.
I don’t think Conde is going anywhere soon. Richards is a good start and has a bright future. As for Mendes and Parke, they stink (yes, they do) and they’d would not be able to start for the Fire. Brown, Robinson and Gutierrez (Diego can play as an ANC or SW) are better and the Fire also have T&T intl Osei Telesford waiting in the wings.
Richards, an Intl slot (not dp), draft picks and allocation money. No other “available” player on the RBNY roster is even worth a used pair of shin guards to the Fire.
Angel and Altidore are excellent (though Altidore will be unavailable for long stretches). Reyna may be able to dig deep and find something left in the tank. Richards has promise at a position the Fire has been desperate to fill. And that’s it. There isn’t another player on the RBNY roster who could compete with their Chicago Fire counterpart. Mapp and Segares are better on the left – it isn’t even close. Gutierrez, Pause and Soumare have got the def. mid covered so stop forcing an old Dema Kovalenko on us. Whether the Fire play 3 or 4 in the back, no Red Bull can play with Brown, Conde and Segares and Robinson has as much promise as Richards. The Fire have Blanco, Rolfe and Frankowski up top with Herron, Barrett and Carr as subs. Busch and Cervi are a drop from Pickens but is Conway better than Busch – probably not.
The only things RBNY has available that is worth anything to the Fire is Richards, intl slots, draft picks and money.
If the Red Bulls improve on this offer in anyway, well, I don’t want to say anything right now.
We hold the cards! Conde would be a HUGE get, but let the situation play out, you don’t come with an offer like that. How stupid can a team be?
As a Red Bulls fan, I’m pretty upset with Osorio right now.
I’m a neutral observer, and i hope chicago keeps Conde. That being said, I think getting Parke, Richards, a first round pick, and cash for Conde is a great deal. And I also think that having a key cog in your system be a disgruntled one who wants out can wreak havoc on a team.
But still, I hope chicago keeps conde. The only reason for this is so that Chicago can keep some iota of pride and dignity. As an outside observer, Chicago has looked like a total pu$$y this offseason. It’s embarassing really, they’re like a little kid being bullied out of his lunch money on the playground by some big aryan-looking exchange student from Austria. Chicago NEEDS to show that they won’t be bullied by NYRB again. They need to take a hard stance with Conde and tell him that if he wants to see the field at all this season, it’ll be in a Fire kit. Have some respect for yourself, Chicago, no matter what deals they throw at you, tell RB to shove it, tell Conde to stop crying and play. Unless you can negotiate a deal for Angel or Jozy, not like it would ever happen.
As a NY fan, I am glad deal was turned down, but I think Chicago made a poor decision. Richards, though predictable, is a force defences must account for, therefore freeing up other players in the box.
Ives, any idea if Dane got a raise this year?
-Mike
As a Revs fan with no preference between the Red Bulls and the Fire, I think that Chicago should make this deal. I believe this deal would be solid for Chicago since Conde has apparently tied his future in MLS to Osorio. What happens if Osorio leaves RBNY for some reason in the next two years to coach elsewhere in MLS or overseas? I can see Conde wanting out of New York just as he has decided he wants out of Chicago.
If that scenario plays out then Chicago has Richards, Jeff Parke or Carlos Mendes, a first-round draft pick and cash. If Conde and Osorio do stay in NY for some time then Chicago still has Richards, Jeff Parke or Carlos Mendes, a first-round draft pick and cash. Not a bad gamble considering coaching tenures in NY.
IVES – “Fire fans, would you take a package of Dane Richards, Jeff Parke or Carlos Mendes, a first-round draft pick and cash for Conde? Red Bulls fans, would you give that up for Conde?”
#1 – I dont care what round or what pick he was found, but Jeff Parke NEEDS to stay in New York. The combination of pure size that he, Brunner and Stammler would provide to the D would be unheard of in this league.
#2 – Any Chicago fan would jump at that trade. It stinks.
#3 – As a Bulls fan, I wouldnt mind Richards and Doe being involved in a trade. Hell, throw the two of them and a first rounder, or second. But no Parke. Even Mendes, who I loved as a defender last year, would be too much to add to this. If Mendes is included, take away any picks.
#4 – Chicago. Ugh.
That’s the one chip on the Red Bulls roster that was of ‘fair’ value and not ‘untouchable’.
If that package is accurate then I think the Fire move into cut off your nose to spite your face territory to not work it out.
I’m a Fire fan and now its a fair deal.
Well I think a couple weeks ago I would have taken it. But now with the public request , and Luis reporting that they will most likely play Rofle at right mid after signing Frankowski(s/p) and the other players on trial I think we need Conde more then a Right mid