Toronto FC just traded first-round draft pick Pat Phelan to the New England Revolution for an international roster spot through 2010.
Could this deal be a prelude to Toronto FC receiving a player from the Chicago Fire for the allocation slot the Fire can use to sign Brian McBride? It is entirely possible. What player might that be? Toronto had strong interest in Justin Mapp, while Wilman Conde would also be a good addition for Toronto.
In the meantime, New England makes out by acquiring a versatile and highly-regarded rookie in Phelan, who can provide cover both in the back and in defensive midfield.
It will be interesting to see what trader Mo Johnston has under his sleeve and just what the Fire will give up for the chance to add McBride to an already loaded team.
Share your thoughts on this deal, and what you think it means, below.
Also NY can’t just pick up Conde for free after this year, I believe, seeing as we own his rights in MLS? Does that make sense?
But allocation $ alone won’t be enough. Mo is not going to give the title to Chicago this year and next for $$$$. He is going to want a top player in exchange.
Conde to TFC… and then traded to NY.
Posted by: Trex | June 04, 2008 at 02:44 P
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For what? NRYB has no depth up front to deal for Conde.
MLS Fan- far be it from me to 2nd guess Mo if he mentions Conde… its clear cut that conde is either out of the league or going to NY next season… therefore ive pointed out in a couple of posts that i agree a triangle of trades between NY, Chi, and TFC is quite likely….
However, i wonder how much JCO and the redbulls are willing to give to get a player that they can pick up for free in Jan??
and ive said from the get go that Mo will probably go for Allocation, as he probably doesnt want his limited Intl’ spots being taken up by average MLS players
Conde to TFC… and then traded to NY.
TFC is getting straight money. Or moeny and a draft pick. Or at most Barrett money and a draft pcik depending on home much they’re hurting at striker.
Any and all deals are ok by me, as a fire fan.
brett – The point about Conde is he is only signed through this season and has already made it known he only wants to play for Osorio and was looking to leave MLS. You don’t give it up for a guy who is unhappy and looking to leave at the end of the year. Especially when this position is the deepest on the roster for TFC. Frankly draft picks don;t mean a lot to TFC (see they just traded their #11 overall pick for an int’l slot) given the roster rules. Allocation $ is the only $ that matters (plain cash means virtually nothing as the team is likely the most profitable in MLS).
HerthaBerwyn- and there in lies another problem…. mapp is still young and as long as he stays healthy could very well be with the fire for quite some time….
Ossington Mental Youth- i think Hauptmann’s hate for NY may be pushed aside to pick up mcbride, especially since its no secret Conde is probably gone at the end of the season anyways (whether it be to NY or abroad)… Its all possible
MLS Fan- i wont go so far to say that Nyarko is off limits… i will say Soumare is off limits tho… and if the fire were smart they’d hold onto Nyarko as well… apparently they are pretty high on Nyarko…
altho itd be a risk for TFC to pick up Nyarko, as he’s untested in the MLS… he’s a prospect, nothing more… but i guess Nyarko is possible, especially since he wouldnt count toward TFC’s cap… i just hope the fire dont drop him or soumare…
Jerry brings up a good point.
Could it be possible that Chicago will rid of a striker AND Conde (simply for the room)? I know Hauptmann hates NYRB but does that go so far as to not free cap space?
Despite being only 23 Mapp has been with the Fire a long time. IIRC Bob Bradley traded Dema from Chicago to DC for him. Hes a main piece of the young core. Id be loathe to disrupt the long term for a year and a month or two of an aged hero. I trust Klopas and Hamlett.
This deal has cleared the way for TFC to get either GA players from the Fire roster who don’t count against the senior roster limits (Nyarko or Soumare). TFC has 2 int’l (non-Cdn) slots open right now but no senior roster spots left open. If indeed this deal was to clear the way for an int’l player from Shitcago then they would not have promoted Jarrod Smith to the senior roster which filled the 1 vacant snr roster spot they had from dealing Phelan.
Jerry- quite possible, but im sure you’d have to drop ALOT of $$ and allocation…
id actually be ok with the deal, despite my disliking for the redbulls now:P
jloome- it is not rolling over to take the allocation money and draft picks in this situation… Mo isnt going to want an average player (ie. Mapp and Barrett) he’s going to want to get the most Bang for his Buck… and allocation is the way…
on top of the DP he’s going to pick up eventually, he’s going to need another 1 or 2 quality players to assist… allocation is the way to beat the Cap… therefor mo would be looking into the future of the team rather then the immediate present…
what forward do you think youd grab?? Rolfe?? he’s not for sale… FACT!… Barrett?? possible, but as ive said he’s a average MLS forward… if you picked him up, who would place the beautiful passes to him like blanco.??
about this comment about conde “but there’s simply no point to Toronto signing him. We’ve got much better options already.”
pls tell me who you have thats better then Conde?? the Fire have the best defense in the league currently and the Fire fans are still screaming to get Hamlett to start Conde (depsite our quality play in the back line)… he’s one of the best defenders in the league, and you’re foolish to think otherwise…
What about a 3 team trade? Allocation spot to Chicago, Conde to NY and a combination of cash and allocation to toronto. The Red Bulls just got 10 Million for Jozy. I’m pretty sure Mo could use some of that $$$.
Ossington Mental Youth said this in the first thread about Jozy to Villa
“They moved Smith up to senior roster as well.. Im willing to bet we either go for Mapp or another Striker, send away Cunningham and sign a DP striker (not McBride) and get a money Allocation from Chicago…”
one of the only TFC fans who is making any sense…. while we may be putting loads of goals away, we also have blanco setting us up for them… Rolfe is our only quality forward, and quite frankly, he’s not for sale…. Barrett is improving yet stil growing as a player… Nyarko is unproven… herron is old and gets no time with us… Frankowski showed quality when he wasnt injured… Carr is all speed and little technical abitlity…
quit dreaming and look at the facts
“TTN Chicago fans. There are other teams in the league. We’re not going to take COnde, we have the second strongest (and maybe strongest, since half those goals were in the first two games) defense in theleague, with more depth than we can handle.”
Who are “we”?? Toronto? I am not sure which team in the league could not use a Conde on their team. Chicago can use Conde on the team!
If you think Johnston’s going to roll over and take it, I think you’re both delusional. I think you’ll see a hell of a fight on the ownership group (in which MLSE is a fairly heavy hitter, just on buying power) to force a ‘weak’ deal for an allocation.
And there’s simply no way — no way on this earth– that Conde winds up in Toronto. We may end up owning him for eight seconds before he heads to another team, but there’s simply no point to Toronto signing him. We’ve got much better options already.
Ditto with MApp. really, we have one international spot left thanks to trading phelan, and if you think it’s NOT going on a striker in some respect, you’re delusional.
jloome- sorry i couldnt resist….
Wolfe?? well Wolff is in Germany (technically spain for the time being) and Rolfe is not an option…. he means too much to the fire to trade…
if its a forward, the best you’d get would be barrett, but i dont see that happening either….
kebzach- with all the hassle of signing him and the fact that Guit and CJ are bound to retire soon, i think we’ll be keeping onto Marmol… cant believe anyone would think that:D
jloome- you seem to be missing the big picture… McBride wants to play with the Fire… you have little negotiating options… its deal through the fire or see McBride retire…. and seeing as you opened a Int’l spot, i see you dealing with the fire…
conde, mapp, and robinson seem to be the best options… IF Mo decides to take a player… i stand firm that i wouldnt be shocked if he picked up allocation and d.Picks….. as ive said above (and many times before), its a smart move….
the best defense in the league?? please dont make me laugh…. perhaps the 2nd best, but not the first… sorry, the fire have you well beat there
Marmol to tfc
ATTN Chicago fans. There are other teams in the league. We’re not going to take COnde, we have the second strongest (and maybe strongest, since half those goals were in the first two games) defense in theleague, with more depth than we can handle.
We’re also unlikely to take Mapp, although he’s a darn good player, because we have midfield depth, too, particularly on the left.
The only thing Chicago has to offer us is strikers, and not much at that. So it’s much more likely if we trade his allocation it will be for a role-playing striker (Barrett or Wolfe) and high draft picks, cash.
I highly doubt it will be a midfielder or forward, as that would make no sense. It MIGHT be for Mapp on the assumption that Edu (who is proving a better attacker than holder) is going to Europe in the next two seasons. But I doubt it.
honestly, i stand by the fact that Mo may end up just picking up Draft picks and Allocation…. rumors have it he’s looking for a DP, and with all that allocation money he’ll have he can go out and buy himself a quality player to suit up with the DP…. if the DP is used on a striker or Playmaker, then the allocated spot can be used for the opposite….
i suspect a DP forward, and an allocated playmaker…
Paul- in all honesty do you think Conde will resign with the fire?? i dont think so, regardless of his play and how we do… if Mo accepts Conde, i say we do it…
we have Robinson and Woolard still… i know Woolard is a rookie, but he’s gotten some playing time…. and lets not forget we still have Marmol…. but yes, i agree CJ and Guit are soon to be retiring….
Jarrod Smith, who has been useful so far to TFC – potting a couple of nice goals, is now a senior player and we have an additional international roster slot that we can use for either somebody we get from Chicago for McBride’s allocation or simply use it to add some roster depth down the road. We are not as deep up front as we should be. The back and midfield are sorted. Now we need a striker and a DP striker as well. Come on Mo, prove me wrong….show me you are not totally lost.
Ossington- he’s doing much better this season with 4 goals and 3 assists… he still has some chances that he blows, but he’s been having a better season…
with Chad you will get a player that works hard the entire time he’s on the field… he’s had an issue with dehydration but i think the great people at gatorade has fixed that problem…. altho id be surprised if Barrett goes… i think Hamlett is pretty high on him, and with McBride only around for a season and a half we’ll need depth… Rolfe Barrett and Nyarko are our current future… so i dunno if he’ll be brought into this trade..
The Fire are not loaded in defense; Guti and Brown are both on the cusp of retiring, so Conde (and $300.000 transfer fee)would be way overpaying for a 36 yr old McBride. If Mcbride can be had without wrecking the team, well and good; if not we should pass on McBride.
Thanks Brett,
Judging by your report I wouldnt doubt Barrett could be an option. How is he for shooting in general? We have a tendency to try to walk goals into the net, rather then shoot them from reasonable distances…
I don’t see Mo giving this up cheap…and I don’t see Chicago giving up the farm for him either. TFC don’t want crap players that wont help…they’re a competitive team now and are really just missing a DP level striker themsevles.
Send us a miss-fest like Barrett is of no intere4st given we already have Jeff Cunningham to miss 90% of his shots on goal. Mapp would be a valuable commodity but hardly something we need given our depth at ML (we have 5 good options including Laurent Robert).
Carl Setterlund- under the Revs system im sure Phelan will pan out just nicely… the Revs have a knack for pulling young talent that come through in their own…
Ossington Mental Youth- barrett is a work in progress…. he’s not going anywhere, despite what Fire fans may want…. he’s got the work ethic of McBride, just not the tools yet… hopefully he’ll come through
Barrett tends to miss simple goals, yet has a nack for still being an average forward in the league… he’s shown incredible growth since last season… he’s placing his shots rather then trying to force them through the keeper… i see the fire looking at him as coming through in this season or the next…. and with the likely hood he wont see europe calling anytime soon the Fire have an average forward that stands a good chance at scoring any moment….
Hah, I do love being a Revs fan. I know we keep coming up short in the MLS Cup, but it is a model organization. We all knew that McBride deal would happen at some point and someone might need to offer a little help to make it happen. I’d be interested to know who made the phone call, Nicol or Mo? Here’s to hoping Phelan pans out big-time.
Elliot, thanks for the straight facts.
Hows his history?
I gotta say i dont follow the fire much so i wont know the details of some of their players…
ill reiterate the point that TFC currently has second least amount of goals against and a deep defense and deep midfield (couldnt hurt to have another winger ;)) as well as a lack of strikers. This will play heavily into the trade.
@Kingsnake – LOL!
OMY,
Barrett does waste some chances, but he’s got 4 goals and 3 assists in nine appearances this season.
He’s productive (by MLS standards) and has a good engine – as they say.
He would be a good pickup for most MLS sides, despite the insufferable whining from Fire fans.
Herron to TFC 😀
probably going to be Conde, altho like Ives stated, Mapp is an interest…
BUT, if Conde was infact going to NY in the process then what is NY going to offer TFC?? obviously not Angel, and with talks of Jozy going abroad VERY soon, their options are limited…
i see TFC getting a player like Robinson or Conde and keeping them… but i wonder if TFC could get Conde to resign?? i dunno
Sorry lads, if Barrett is as bad as you say he is, im certain Mo knows and wont be going for him. Mo has done well for us so far so i dont see that changing quite yet.
Conde or Barrett to TFC. Chicago should do it, no question. Definitely give up Barrett before Mapp. I am predicting that McBride will be a goal machine with Blanco, Thorrington, Rolfe, Mapp, etc surrounding him. I think I’m becoming a Fire fan…
Package Conde and Barrett.
Ives,
I am little bit unfamiliar with this allocation thing in MLS. Have you written an article on the explanation for the allocation system? If so can you post a link. Not sure I quite understand why McBride can’t just be sign by Chicago Fire or any other team directly.
kpugs – i agree. I think Barrett leads the league in blown scoring opportunities. If they kept that stat anyway. Gordon over in LA may give him a race for the title.
g
You know what’s funny, I spent so much time trying to explain to people who don’t understand MLS that McBride will play wherever he chooses that I didn’t even stop to think that Chicago fans might not even want him!
Ha, not only that, but it seems so obvious that Chad Barrett should be the man they poison Toronto with. He’s got “decent” stats but is just such a bad player. If he had half the talent most people think he does he’d have 15 goals this season by now.
Conde to TFC.
I hope it’s not Soumare.
I really want McBride to come to the Fire.
But at the same time, we already have a loaded roster, and I don’t want to lose too many big pieces like a 23 year old Justin Mapp.
If we can keep all our big pieces and add McBride, while maybe getting rid of draft picks/cash/bit players, you might as well etch The Fire’s name on the Cup.
Come on Fire!
I would rather have a young Mapp than a 36 yr old McBride. I would rather see Carr, Robinson,Barrett, Frankowski, Herron or someone other than a starter for him. I would love to see Brian in a Fire shirt but not give up the young nucleus of our team.
Conde I can deal with being delt.. Mapp being delt i think would hurt more with thorrington being hurt alot and it would prbably also mean that rolfe is back to playing a mid role.
Chicago: Bend over and grease it up. Here comes the big one!
Should be interesting indeed.
Gotta say im a bit sad to see Phelan leaving (although he never played a game but it was nice to have a stacked defense).
If we get Conde im willing to bet hes headed to NYRB (we all know he wants to be there). Id argue Mo is looking to grab us a striker and send off Cunny. Maybe Im wrong?
Either way im quite excited…