Photo by ISIphotos.com
So how does an MLS team lose to a USL-2 team? There were plenty of factors that went into the Red Bulls’ 2-0 loss to Crystal Palace Baltimore on Tuesday night, but none of them is as important as the simple fact that the Red Bulls team that took the field played terribly.
Yes, the Red Bulls would have had a much better chance to avoid the upset if Dave Van Den Bergh, Dane Richards and Seth Stammler played, but with a second Western Conference road game in six days looming, it made sense to rest those players. Juan Carlos Osorio called on his reserves to show something in what was a golden opportunity and far too many of them wasted the chance.
Instead of making a case for more playing time, too many Red Bulls players showed little as they were outhustled and outworked by an inspired Crystal Palace team. The reality is that the performance shouldn’t have come as much of a surprise.
It has been no secret all season that the Red Bulls roster was thin and in dire need of anywhere from three to five new players. The club is addressing that today with a press conference to announce the signings of Jorge Rojas and Juan Pietravallo, but those signings didn’t come soon enough to help a Red Bulls lineup that was short on talent, and failed to deliver any of the type of effort that has helped the short-handed squad get results in MLS play.
As much credit as Crystal Palace deserves for the win, it didn’t exactly beat a juggernaut. Here’s an interesting stat for you: $425,010. That’s the combined salaries of the Red Bulls starting XI last night, a total that averages out to about $38,637. That is still more than what the Palace players are making but just shows that the lineup they faced didn’t exactly have much star power.
The Red Bulls didn’t play like a hungry group of reserves eager for a better chance and bigger salary. Instead, they went through the motions like the match was a scrimmage or training session. Crystal Palace didn’t see it that way and fought the Red Bulls to every ball and jumped into scuffles at every opportunity (earning several cards in the process). The game meant something to them and it showed.
That didn’t show for the Red Bulls, which was sad considering the pitiful history of the club, and even sadder because of the fact that more than 50 fans made the more than 200-mile trek to Annapolis for the game. Those fans sang their hearts out for 90 minutes (not 70 or 80, but 90) and made the tiny High School field the game was played on sound like a Red Bulls home game.
The singing didn’t help though. Instead, we saw Mike Magee struggle in what might be one of his last matches as a Red Bull. We saw rookie John Gilkerson play terribly after showing so much promise against Chivas de Guadalajara. We watched Juan Carlos Osorio use Chris Megaloudis as the lone forward in a 4-2-3-1 when Megaloudis was in no way equipped to handle that role when John Wolyniec certainly was. We watched Gordon Kljestan struggle badly for 45 minutes in his first action with the Red Bulls (though you can probably chalk that up to nerves).
What we saw was just plain ugly, and unfortunately just another sad footnote for a club that already had enough sad footnotes.
What did you think of the Red Bulls’ loss last night? Share your thoughts below.
Ives, lol, ironic isn’t it?
I’ll be frank; I just don’t like JCO’s style. Even when we win, it’s fugly. I don’t think we’ve scored more than 2 goals in a game all year. I’m a season ticket holder. I want to be entertained, at least a little bit.
I get the impression that even if we got 2 world-class players to open RBP (whenever that is), he would still choke the life out of the game. I admit, it’s almost as if I don’t want him to succeed lest we become stuck with him and that drab style.
I know you can’t burn bridges by calling out the coach every 2 seconds; it’s the nature of your business. That’s what disgruntled readers are for, lol.
Brett, it started with Alejandro Ruiz, a Fire fan, deciding he needed to discuss the Fire in the comments of a post regarding the Red Bulls. He’s just looking to stir the pot. You responded to him and got thrown into the instigating Fire fan’ category, when you really didn’t say anything wrong.
It was an embarrassing loss for the Red Bulls and Fire fans decide to post in the comments section. That’s going to be seen as trolling. I’m not saying it is, but I can see how that would draw a reaction from already-upset Red Bulls fans.
Ultimately, I would prefer not to censor or delete comments, but generally speaking, if I see a post that is written purely to incite, I’m going to delete it. I want discussions to be healthy, and not spiteful rhetoric like you find in certain other sites.
Apologies Brett if it seemed like I labeled you a troublemaker. That wasn’t my intention.
“They are still supposed to be far better than USL2 players or we would have the USL2 players for reserves.”
Wrong. Just flat-out incorrect. Many of the players in USL are guys who refused MLS developmental salaries in favor of more money and a starting spot on a team. Most USL players are guys who would be great “depth” players in MLS and are generally better than MLS reserve players.
Walter Tymczyna- clearly you dont know whats truely on the line…. USOC matches mean so much more this season then before…
ives- dunno if my other post went through so im sort of re-typing it…
are you refering to the “open forum” as smack?? it always comes up and gets a bit old (not just on your site, but other sites as well)… you have a whole slew of people posting from different areas supporting different teams…. theres no way to stop it from happening… my sarcastic jab was merely to point that out…
outside of the “open forum” jab, i havent posted anything that would justify the term “troll”…. i didnt start talking about the fire, i responded to it… anyhow, just b/c this is ABOUT the Redbulls doesnt mean mentioning another MLS side in the same competition does not deem trolling… my posts were thought out and reasonable…
I’m not shocked. Most of the players on the starting suck so what makes you think the bench is any good. These other divisions hit the streets hard for talent. the MLS just waits for talent to come to it. The MLS needs more scouts out there hitting the local men’s tournaments.
This is an open cup game. Nobody cares…
League matches count. Save our starters for those matches.
I don’t care if they are reserves. They are still supposed to be far better than USL2 players or we would have the USL2 players for reserves. In fact maybe we should after seeing this. It’s pitiful. I expect us to win this match 10 out of 10 times with our worst players. This competition should have been a strong focus for the club since, let’s face it, it would be our only change to get into the Champions League. We certainly aren’t making a case to attract JPA to stay after his contract is up and if I’m him I would run. I’ve had enough with this club. But I’ll still support them, just not financially in any way.
I was at the game last night. Crystal Palace played the best game that I have ever seen or side play. Our boys were up for the game. It was by far the biggest victory in our 1 1/2 year history.
Some would say that we “overachieved” last night but the truth is that our club was designed to be able to compete with MLS Reserve clubs.
Yes, we are a USL2 club but our roster was assembled with more ambition than a lot of the other clubs in our division. Our owners don’t have the money to compete USL1 (especially the travel expenses) but our management selected players who they believe play at a higher level than most USL2 players and there are some guys on our club that could be playing in MLS. Guys like Mbuta, Brooks, Harada and Marsall. Last night our keeper Nelson looked like he should get a decent look from MLS again.
As a long time DC United supporter, I have almost no love for the Empire Supporters but besides some of the usual obnoxious, looking to start something types that are members of the group–I have to agree with Ives that the ECS performance was way better than the RBNY player performance. ESC reprezented. Even down to serenading your side after a very disappointing loss and knowing that they had a long ride ahead of them. They waited for the players and coaching staff to exit the locker room area and they showed mad love to their side. It’s not like I hadn;t seen supporters show love to their side after a loss before but after that sort of loss–I give the devil his due. ECS brought the flava last night. Big time Props. Maybe Osorio should have dressed some of the ESC. I think they would have represented the colors better.
I disagree with the assertion that Mega isn’t capable to be the lone forward. He was one of your best players on the field last night. He was a bigger offensive threat than anybody else wearing an RB jersey. He played lone forward for an incredibly out gunned Puerto Rico side in the away leg of the PR-Honduras WCQ series and was effecient in his role (although it was complicated when TFC’s Velez got sent off). In the home leg in Bayamon, he played well and he earned his goal. His performance (and ex-Metro Villegas)exceuted PRNT DT Colin Clark’s offensive game plan brilliantly. If dude can do that against a full Honduras side in a WCQ, I have to believe that he can do it in MLS. I just think he needs more time to develop.
Ives states that you guys starting XI last night gross $425k. Our starting XI gross (very educated estimate based on knowledge of our club and the typical USL2 salary scale)about $115K (not including youth camps, offseason employment-some guys who go off to play MISL or in a league abroad). So while we clearly didn’t face your “juggernaut”, it was still a David & Goliath encounter. That’s not gloating. That’s just helping to give the salary imbalance additional perspective.
Yesterday Dane Richards was quoted in another newspaper up there as saying that he didn’t know anything about our club. That really surprised me. His ex-Clemson teamate, Alan O’hara played for us last year. Had he checked, he would have founf out how scrappy our boys are and that we returned the nucleus of our team from last year. Sort of seems like RBNY slept on us. After Osorio’s Chicago disappointment in Carolina last year and reading an interview he did prior to the match, I honestly expected to see him start fewer reserves last night. While I know that our boys would have still given their all, no matter who RB dressed, good thing for us that he didn’t.
Coach, Osorio gave young players a chance to play and they didn’t deliver. You can blame him if you choose but the players need to make the most of the opportunity.
For someone who uses coach as a nickname you sure seem intent on casting blame on coaches. What’s that about?
Brett, to be fair, I have a post up about Open Cup results in general, and then this one about the REd Bulls loss specificially, so for you, as a Fire fan to come to this post and comment does smack of trolling. You can do it, but don’t act surprised when people react the way they do.
And Green, it can sound however you want it to sound. Would you prefer a lengthy piece detailing the stunning display of soccer put on by Crystal Palace? I’m sure you would enjoy that but I’m not sure how many readers were looking for that one this morning.
Ives- im not saying that either… my whole point was directed at the Fire taking the game “seriously” b/c they played players like Marmol, Frankowski, Carr, Nyarko, Barrett, Rolfe and Blanco… i stated we played a reserves squad, bar Rolfe and Barrett….
i agree being home helped, and i agree having 2 exp. players helped as well… noones arguing that..
nicholas s.- then stop with the “this is a NY topic, stop talking about other things” posts…. its an open forum, thus, the topic will change from time to time… get over it
Sorry, but, 9 paragraphs of what the losing team didn’t do reads like excuses from this side of the screen.
Own up, maybe the reserves just aren’t gonna cut it against any team, regardless of league.
So Claudio Reyna can turn up for a pickup game with Steve Nash but not this match?
Ives to be fair.. chicago has been much better on the road this year.
And I was suprised especially where NY sits in the table that they would not try harder since a champions cup spot rests with the winner
Seems like you’re letting Osorio off the hook too easily.
“…they were outhustled and outworked..”
Does that not reflect on the manager a bit? And a 4-5-1 yet again?
Crap players, crap attitude, crap tactics … and no accountability.
So depressing.
Brett, nobody is arguing that Chicago’s roster is deeper than the Red Bulls. That’s pretty clear. I would also argue that playing at home didn’t exactly hurt Chicago and having Barrett and Rolfe start didn’t hurt either (the Red Bulls needed at least one attacking starter there, either Richards or Van Den Bergh, to give the attack some life).
I apologize for my outburst earlier. Anonymity on a message board says nothing about one’s “manliness,” I should know this better than anyone else. It’s just that I’ve been under a lot of stress since I my gender re-assignment and the meds to control my raging hormones haven’t kicked in yet.
Green, they played terribly. Passes weren’t sharp and effort in general wasn’t there. Yes, Palace did the job, but the bunker and counter deserves only so much credit. They got the early goal, packed it in and sent long balls to their fast guys up top.
All it would have taken was some patience and thought to break them down, especially with the man advantage, but again, passes weren’t sharp and skill was lacking and nobody on the Red Bulls showed any creativity.
And Alejandro, it wasn’t about not taking Crystal Palace seriously or not. It was about making a choice between resting players when he could and Osorio chose to rest them on Tuesday.
looking from the outside, what i don’t understand is why is rbny resting players. it’s not like houston, new england ,etc. that are playing superliga and champions league on top of their normal league games. so that’s what 2-3 extra games ? if you don’t want to get embarresed then play all your cards.
Well, it wasn’t just the Fire.
Kansas City ended up subbing in Claudio Lopez and Trujillo when they were down 2-nil. They ended up with 3 goals between them.
Red Bulls had none of their top players on their bench. Point is, Osorio didn’t take their opponent seriously enough and paid the price.
brett
thanks for the condescending reply, i could do without it. thanks.
Played terribly or outplayed?
Give credit where credit is due.
nicholas s.- arent you aware that this blog is basically an open forum?? is this your first experience with an open forum?? topics change quite frequently….
talking (briefly) about the fire is still connected to the topic…. people complain about the thin squad and using of reserves, when other teams went the same route and were successfull…..
Alejandro Ruiz- the difference is Renya and beckham start when healthy….
Marmol is the only player that will probably start when healthy… Frankowski, Carr and Nyarko are not starters, they are reserves… subs…. players who dont start….
majority of the fire squad that played (bar Rolfe and Barrett) are reserves… blanco had 3 min…. not quite worth recognizing….
Roster was thin = excuse
Fact is, MLS teams have *VAST* budgets compared to USL2 teams …
And for the love of God, this is about New York. New. York. Can we please discuss how to get this franchise on track without people feeling the need to invoke the Chicago Fire?
I love it how whenever kpugs is pushed into a corner he resorts to petty name-calling and whining about people not using their “real name” So your real name is “kpugs”? And we’re supposed to put more credence in what you say because you signed up for an account with a gmail address and give a link to a blog with no posts? Get real dude, and get over the fact that your team lost.
this is embarrassing. What is wrong with this franchise?! It’s NYC, the media capital of the world. What better for the league than having success in New York?!
How can this franchise be run SO poorly that every player it trades away blossoms after leaving, they are wasting a Beckham-esque signing by letting Captain America have a DP slot and they can’t put a USL2 team in it’s place in a tournament that would grant entry to the CONCACAF Champions League.
Last year, with Jozy and Angel on form, I felt so excited about the future of this team and we’ve done nothing but regress since then.
mike – lol mike, i think anyone who fielded the fire squad could make the RBNJ starting XI, perhaps a few ride as super subs :P… j/k, anyhow yes, at least frankowski and marmol could start for the redbulls, nyarko and carr could, but would probably ride the pine….
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Double F – Double S- yes, im a fire supporter… and yes i know RB’s are a bit precautious on selecting a academy youth… but they need to do something… bring up 1 or 2 of them once your team makes cuts…. JCO has to have some form of concept of their abilities…
I love how the RB fans are trying to make our reserves into our starters.. Its not our fault we have a deep team in chiacgo.
Sounds like the Red Balls need a mediocore defender like Conde, to complete their mediocore club.
Well I was referring to Cup wins by MLS sides, and also….it doesn’t take a magic 8 ball to see the Fire will win their 5th and 6th Cups before Maccabi and Bethlehem Steel.
Anyway, by your logic….Claudio Reyna is a “reserve” player for Bulls. So was Beckham last year for the Galaxy.
Depth is key for any MLS team that wants a strong showing in both MLS competition and the Open Cup and this result makes it clear that the Red Bulls are seriously lacking in talent outside a starting 11.
whomever is cut…like magee…is his money guaranteed now and not off the cap?
We should have played our “starters” (as if we have a true Best XI) last night, and thrown the reserves out against Colorado. Period.
Even so . . .our bench shouldn’t be losing 2-0 to a 3rd division team, even if CPUSA isn’t the average USL-2 side.
*********
Oh, and Brett (“Fire”, I presume), ask Matt Kassel how smart RB is when it comes to academy talent.
See? I can do it too. Wow, that was hard. It’s hard to remain anonymous while posting stupid annoying crap and not having a brain or any confidence whatsoever. Oh wait.
Great post, Ives. Your apologist card has officially been revoked.
Brett-
Sure, Marmol, Nyarko, Frankowski, and Carr are technically reserves, but would they all be reserves on RBNY?
Agoos has a tough job ahead of him, glad to see he’s making some progress with the two players signed.
Ives, I can’t remember ever disagreeing with you before, but there are no excuses AT ALL for this one. The same way there is no excuse for the past two draws in the league, both should have been wins. This team is subpar at best.
Hey “Bob Bradley,” I was just wondering what it’s like being a coward who anonymously posts in blogs without daring to list their real name or any contact information? Not even that I disagree with you. But you are a pus sy. Stand by your opinions, or why bother posting?
The reason why the Red Bulls lost is because I don’t like the weather in Baltimore and not enough Colombians live there.
Alejandro:
technically, the Fire have the most Open Cups in MLS with four. however Maccabi Los Angeles and Bethlehem Steel FC have five apiece.
Well put Ives!
Ives was there anyone in Crystal Palace whom the Red Bulls should take a closer look?
two questions:
1) why the need to play with a lone forward against a team that is less talented (on paper, at least)?
2) why does Mike Magee still have a job? He disappears from games and is literally invisible most matches. He also doesn’t have any physical assets that suggest that he is suddenly going to improve.
If the Red Belles were a “successful” team then slacking off and not taking the US Open Cup seriously could be understood, on some level. But they’re not.
Btw, it’s been almost a full season collectively that Osorio has been a manager/head coach in MLS and my impression of his ability is that he’s probably one of the most qualified ASSISTANT coaches a manager could find for his staff. As for MANAGER, not so much.
Fearless Prediction: Osorio will be fired shortly after the 2009 season and will never land a manager position in England.
Alejandro Ruiz- Marmol is coming off an injury…. hasnt played a game in …. well he hasnt played a game yet…. Carr hasnt seen much of any time this season… Frankowski has been injured much of the season and Nyarko has seem a couple end of game minutes…
those 4 are all reserves ATM….
leaving Barrett Rolfe and Blanco…
Barrett and Rolfe didnt start against SJ, b/c it was clear Hamlett was intending on using them in the USOC… blanco came in at the 87th min, so i wouldnt be blowing that out of proportion…. Barrett has been lack luster for the past month missing quality opportunities…
so Barrett and Rolfe were are only regulars to see any form of time…. everyone else you mentioned either is a reserves (currently) or saw 3-5 min (blanco)….
perhaps other teams should take the USOC more seriously, especially with whats on the line….
judging by what you said, i dont think anything needs to be added…. it seems to me that RBNJ wasnt hungry enough… perhaps you guys should dive into your academy sooner rather then later….
Ummm…it sounds like they weren’t taking the cup too seriously at all. Compared to Chicago.
Who started Marmom, Barret, Rolfe and Carr. In the 2nd half(Winning 4-1) they subbed in Frankowski, Nyarko and at the very end Cuautehmoc Blanco.
But I guess that’s why Chicago has more Open Cups than anyone else. It’s not rocket science people.
🙁
Enough said.