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Luck and its role in the Red Bulls dream run


Here we stand, a day after one of the exciting, heart-stopping and unforgettable playoff games in MLS history and there are plenty of people, both Red Bulls fans and neutrals, who are still scratching their heads at the improbability of the Red Bulls earning a place in the MLS Cup final.

Notice that word, earning. Whether you’re one of those "they didn’t deserve to be in the playoffs people" or not, you can’t really argue with the fact that the Red Bulls endured and overcame an incredible amount of adversity to reach this point.

I will offer a more thorough breakdown of the match, as well as some behind-the-scenes notes on Monday (two cross-country flights in 30 hours have wiped me out), but for now I wanted to discuss the role that luck played in last night’s Red Bulls victory:

I had touch on one sentiment I’m hearing a lot of, that the Red Bulls were lucky to win last night. Nobody on the Red Bulls denies that, and several people ranging from Juan Carlos Osorio to Dave Van Den Bergh said as much. Apparently some people forget that luck is part of the game and the Red Bulls worked hard enough and played well enough to take advantage of it. While Real Salt Lake had tons of close chances, and hit the post three times, the Red Bulls fought and clawed and played better than some critics are acknowledging this Sunday.

What some observers are failing to realize as well is the fact that the Red Bulls have had more than their fair share of bad luck in the playoffs through the years. From the last-minute penalty call that helped D.C. United beat the MetroStars in that first series in 1996, to the offside calls (one made, one not made) that cost the MetroStars in the 2000 Eastern Conference final, to the Bob Bradley years, when New England and D.C. United benefited from the MetroStars bad luck in the form of shaky calls (along with some poor play), or the late goals that crushed the club’s playoff hopes in 2005 and 2006.

If anything, the Red Bulls have been due for some playoff luck for some time, and this year it has come in droves, both against Houston and last night against Real Salt Lake. On some level it is funny to hear Real Salt Lake fans bemoan their bad luck when this year has marked just their first foray into the MLS playoffs. Enduring playoff heartbreak is a rite of passage and last night’s match will go down in the history books for both RSL and Red Bulls fans. When Real Salt Lake’s time comes, it will be made that much sweeter by the agony endured last night at Rio Tinto Stadium. I mean really, who will forget that game and it’s heart attack-inducing suspense, and for RSL, its heart-breaking finish?

So before you go complaining about the Red Bulls good luck you might want to think about the fact that it took 12 years of misery, a dozen years of bad bounces, blown calls, blown leads and terrible luck to get to this mother lode of good luck the Red Bulls have been graced with. Luckily for the Red Bulls and their fans, the team has come together and played well enough to make sure that this good luck didn’t go to waste.


  1. Great pic…those Colombians always make me feel warm and fuzzy inside! This is quite a cinderella story which is great for MLS in its short history. You people need big picture thinking abilities…a 1.1, 3.0, 1.0 shows versatility and strategy, mixed with grit and fortitude. We make our own luck every day!!!

  2. Anyone who thnks Red bulls are lucky STAND ONE NOW, Exactly if the red scum win this championship, this will no doubt be the worst championship team ever. Surpassing LA’s 2005 championship team. 2 Druggies getting banned (no droped points for the team) 3 posts that DC hits against columbus to keep red bulls in the playoffs. Getting owned by Houston, yet somehow score a 3-0 game after numerous chances created by the dynamo. 3 posts hit by RSL to send the red bulls to MLS cup. LUCK IS CLEARLY ON THERE SIDE, Qhile I was always a believer that one makes his own luck, I now am against that believe. Red bulls have show nothing spectacular throughtout the year, got smacked against chicago in there win/or die game, and looked like // against the houston and RSL and still get a victory. Are they the worst team in the league NO, that goes to Toronto. ARE THEY the luckiest team in the league CLEARLY.

    2008 Championship for NY=Fluke

    I guess every dog does have its day.

  3. Players fall down and lay there in every league around the world. It happened countless amount of times during both the Euros and World Cup. Players now that it takes time of the clock. It’s a strategy. I’m not saying it’s a good one but if you notice Leitch got a yellow and he hobbled for the remainder of the match. The ref needs to step in and get those guys off the pitch if they want the game to continue. But until FIFA makes some universal rule, sorry, you’re going to see this in every league from MLS to Premier to Serie A, etc.

  4. For those still saying that NY didnt “deserve” to be in the playoffs…have a look at RSL record will ya?

    As for Leitch…you wanna talk about gamesmanship..then mention Yuriy’s blatant dive in the penalty area…

  5. For any RSL fans who whine I’d say, your team didn’t get it done, they lost, they deserve to lose. On the other hand, on the RB side, I’ve got to think you want to go with a different strategy than to give the other team an extraordinary number of chances and depend on Cepero and the post to keep the sheet clean.

    I’ve seen two halves of RBNY playoff soccer – 2nd half in Houston, and second half Saturday, and while RBNY didn’t give up a score in either, they could easily have allowed 7 or 8 with the way they defended – and don’t forget some recent blowout losses by the team.

    Luck was getting into the playoffs after DC hit the post twice and crossbar once in the final game.

  6. The Red Bulls sscored a goal, Real did not. There’s your game. The winner advances, right? They won, they go to the Final, and deservedly so. End of story. Yes we HAVE endured alot of pain over 12 years. DIE HARD fans have been dying pretty hard indeed. Not the prettiest game? No kidding! Bulls haven’t had a fantastic midfielder in forever, but at least they’re finally playing as a team, and nobody is making any huge mistakes. Historically they have always beaten themselves, defensive breakdowns and whatnot, but no more. We played well enough to win, while unfortunately Houston and RSL did not. **The only thing that has remained consistent in this league since it’s inception, and remains true to this day, is the God-Awful refereeing. Wow they are clue-less. Where do they find these guys?? Some of those calls, Christ! I just hope it’s a different guy for the final.

  7. I think it can be argued that luck plays a role every year in the MLS playoffs. In fact, I think the Red Bulls current playoff success is as lucky as Houston’s back-to-back Cup wins. As with other American professional sports, there is the regular season and the playoffs. Each team starts from scratch once they qualify for the playoffs and any team can win, especially in an evenly-matched league like MLS. How many other sports leagues can count every team still eligible for the playoffs going into the final week of the regular season? Until the MLS champion is determined by the Supporters Shield alone, we will continue to see “luck” play a role in MLS.

  8. And the comment on “boot the ball” I wonder how many on this board still play the beautiful game in their adult age. I’m sure a few do but I’m sure a lot don’t or never have. The reason for the “boot the ball” tactic was simple. Break up the momentum or chemistry that RSL was trying to build. It’s not a great strategy and it leads to ugly football but it is one that works. “When in doubt, kick it out” is how the old saying goes. Teams do it to regain their shape and slow down the pace of the game. Again, if you’re running a lot in your own half because you’re in a defensive shell, you get tired and booting the ball simply becomes a way to regain composure to prepare for the next onslaught. Again, it’s a strategy that may have backfired on Osorio and the Bulls but it’s still a strategy that they played and it happened to work. Will they do this next week? Probably not. I’m sure Osorio and crew played a 4-5-1 toward the end because they were looking to get out of there with a win. I’d love to see more attacking soccer with flair but it takes an incredible amount of endurance and stamina. And maybe Osorio knows something more about his players than we do.

  9. Those still hating or doubting that the Bulls should not have been in the playoffs to begin with. Why is it that the Pittsburgh Steelers won the Super Bowl in 2006 as the worst team with the worst record and played an awful game against Seattle yet no one probably has any issues with that? It’s simple, the Bulls are the lowest seed and yet we have cries of “it’s so unfair.” Y’know what’s unfair, the fact that teams who are top in the league think they deserve a “W” without having to play 90 minutes of football. If MLS moved to a single table and the top 8 teams played each other it would be 1 vs. 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5. Now certainly there would be lower ranked teams beating higher ranked teams. Upsets would happen. This is what makes the playoffs exciting. Think of it in terms of the group stages of big tournaments. Sure, better teams get past the first stage but there are still NO GUARANTEES. I mean, Spain was not guaranteed to win Euro 2006. And look who won 2002, GREECE! They weren’t even picked by the “experts.” So shut up and enjoy the final and the “unknowns” that exist in playoff sports. That’s what makes it exciting. If you want a guaranteed outcome then start watching WWE.

  10. As a devoted DC Utd fan, let me say – Of course, luck played a role here.

    Some will call it luck – others call it opportunity. In the end, fortune favors the prepared.

    Congrats to the RedBull and Crew for both taking advantage of their opportunities and their luck to arrive at the final.

  11. Ives, I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Angel concussion saga during last years playoffs as part of the bad run of luck. From what I saw, the RedBulls gave the Revs all they could handle in that game.


    Don’t say the word “posts” for awhile…Salt Lake fans are still a bit sensitive. 🙂

  12. Here’s where I have a problem with the Red Bulls win on Saturday. (I was there) Chris Leech and others faking multiple injuries that ate up at least 6 minutes of precious time throughout the second half. Then the fourth official awarding 4 minutes of stoppage time despite multiple substitutions and bookings on top of all the injury faking. The ref finally gave Leech a yellow for wasting more time in added time with another “injury.”

    If you are going to play ugly, that’s fine, but get off your butts, stop rolling around like you’ve been shot in the leg and play the d*** game. It was pathetic. It wasn’t just bad luck that kept RSL from getting the equalizer, it was what some people would refer to as “gamesmanship.” I call it cowardice.

  13. Since they were up 1-0, Osorio decided to spend the rest of the game bunkering down and trying to stop RSL from scoring. Somehow, they absorbed all that was thrown at them and the Bulls won.

    If the Bulls were either losing or tied (instead of being up 1-0) they would have played differently. They would have been trying to possess the ball and would have been looking to score.

    I’m a Bulls fan, and am very happy to see my team in the final. Next up, the Crew – a quality side that I hope we beat.

    Hats off to RSL. You gave it your best shot – you played hard and you played well.

  14. Red Bull did not deserve to be in the playoffs PERIOD!!!!!!!! they had a losing record!!!!

    outside of that they have played well the last three games.. none the less this will always have an astrix next to it for me.

  15. Here is to hoping that RSL will go out and get us our version of JPA…somebody who can score the clutch goal when needed. Movsisyan turned it on late, but we have not had a consistent scorer. Also, hopefully Espindola can stay healthy, because when he was playing, he was by far the most dangerous player on the field.

  16. The sweetness of this victory I cannot begin to express in words, as I’ve followed this Metro/RB soap opera since 1996, often numb, most years in a bitter, degraded, miserable silence. In the run-up to the most important game of Metro history, I’ll try to abstract it a bit for my own sake, as I see the game now…

    The critics will critique. The haters will hate. The whiners will whine. The commentators will try to give insight and words to the indescribable: the anxiety and anticipation we feel as we hope, wait, and silently pray for our teams to score. In the aftermath, the reporters will do their best to inform, encapsulate, analyze, celebrate, or condemn the last match. Luck will be both celebrated and cursed. The refs will be blamed no matter what they do. The purists will claim a stake on higher ground but will become realists when their teams win. The poseurs and fair weather fans will claim eternal allegiance at the first sight of victory. And the true hinchas will rejoice it all as if the Almighty himself parted the November clouds and declared ‘let there be euphoria’ from way on up… This is the true beauty of this sport we love, not only the depths of the contradictions within it (which mirror our own), but the fervor with which we live them. This game is the only one to me that is perennial artwork in flux, a chess game that is forever changing boards, strategies, and adversaries… and it will always be up to the beholder to endlessly judge, proclaim, opinionate, celebrate, and suffer. This is why we love this sport.

  17. I think what gets lost, is how poor of a game it was from supposedly two of the best teams in MLS (conference championship, right?). There was surely excitement…however, the poor display of soccer was on full display. From the inept finishing, on both sides (but mostly from RSL), to seeing a professional team like RBNY consistently kick the ball long with 25 minutes left in the game…simply showed me how far MLS has to go. I understand MLS is not the EPL, but I did expect more from two conference championship clubs.

  18. RSL fans should be ashamed of the actions of a few “idiots” that threw the smoke pellets (or whatever they were) on the field during the run of play. The Referees of that game should all be re-read the Laws of the Game and Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game. When an outside object enters the field of play, especially one that has the potential to be dangerous and truly interferes with play, the referee MUST STOP play and restart with a dropped ball. I’m not talking the stupid streamers here either, although they do have the potential to interfer with play by causing a player to trip. Shame on the referee for letting play continue prior to clearing that garbage off the field.

  19. I agree they deserve to be there, but it is so hard to root for a team that plays like my high school JV team. Watching them gives me memories of all the unknowledgeable soccer parents at my high school games yell ‘boot it’ everytime the ball came near their son! I mean it was pretty bad. They bypassed the midfield on just about every play! Poor Angel was just running around aimlessly because the ball never once came to his feet!

  20. The more that “fans” say that RBNY doesn’t deserve to be in the final, the better for NY!

    Those that believe that NY shouldn’t be in the postseason should send their comments to Don Garber. NY didn’t make the rules.

    All the Red Bulls have done is beat the two-time champs, and survive another strong team on the road.

    Style points don’t win championships. Outscoring your opponent does.

    If Columbus wins on Sunday, they’ll deserve to be called champions. JUST LIKE NEW YORK.

  21. Luck? Skill? Deserving? Ugly football? Cynical football?

    These arguments are inane. Skill was the primary factor at play in that game. Finishing is a skill, defending is a skill, passing is a skill. Luck is a myth.

    Movsisyan tightened up and missed a sitter, his great skill didn’t overcome nerves (and I do think he is a great player). Will Johnson couldn’t catch up with that ball and put it into the net, he could only put it onto the post. When he had his shot Morales couldn’t tuck it into the corner.

    Dane Richards received a beautiful pass from Rojas was wide open heading toward goal, made a bad touch and allowed defenders to catch up with him – his skill cost him a goal. John Wolyniec hit a volley low and to the near post that Rimando saved (barely) if he had hit it to the upper corner, Rimando would have needed even better skill to stop it.

    See where I am going with this?

    Tactically, did I like the way New York played in the second half? No, but it is something you see all over the world and it can be effective. Bunker and play counterattack sometimes it works. Look at Concacaf, 3/4 of the teams in the region play that way against the US. The real test of a team is there ability to break down a bunkering defense. That is one of the reasons that the US scores so many goals off set plays in qualifying.

    Osorio chose that as the tactic and ask the team to execute the strategy in the second half. They executed the strategy and prevented RSL from scoring. Was it pretty? No. Is the tactic indicative of the skill level of the team? No. If you were ahead 1-0 and had a chance to go the the final and win your first trophy would you do it too? Why couldn’t they string together a few passes to relieve pressure – because they didn’t want too. They wanted to try to play safe and boot it out. Was the Red Bulls winning goal lucky? Absolutely NOT.

  22. i am happy for NYRB. Long time coming. Here is a tired, but true sports cliche about their run this year: “They did what they had to do.” They scored when they needed it, the scores counted, and they went through. JCO is to some degree vindicated. For this year, at least.

    Barcelona USA will beat them, though.

  23. As a DC United fan, I know a thing or two about luck. We’ve been on both sides and at the end of the match what counts is the final score.

    Real Salt Lake played well enough to win, but could not put the ball in the back a the net. Which is the difference. Kudos to the NYRB and to Columbus for playing in their first cup title. Good luck to both.

  24. Agreed luck goes both ways. Theyve got a pretty good run of it this year, but not in the past and we’ll see about the future.

    One great thing about the RSL game is that at least it wasnt a blown call and it wasnt just one player who couldnt deliver.

    RSL has no one to place blame on. They all fought hard. Subs who came on did well. No one blew a sitter, its just none of their chances found the net. Morales, Johnson, Findley, Borchers, Duechar, Morsysian, etc.. all had chances, but couldnt quite do it. It wont be 11 guys thinking about a call by the ref, or 10 guys thinking about a play by one guy. It will be each guy knowing they fought hard, but things didnt go their way.

  25. Hitting the post isn’t unlucky if its just an ordinary missed shot, like the one that nearly tied the game at the death. Hitting the post is only unlucky if the ball ended up on the post rather than in the net due to something unintentional and unexpected. The Red Bulls were outplayed by RSL, however, and they were fortunate (but not lucky) that RSL couldn’t find the net, particularly as it seemed their all-in defense strategy was a disaster that was almost always happening.

    RBNY is fortunate to be in the finals, not lucky.

  26. I’m (unfortunately) a big FC Dallas fan, but watching that playoff game the other night was pretty exciting. I only got to see the first half, but anyone who would think that goal was luck is ignoring the textbook near-post/far-post runs Angel and Vanden Bergh were making. It threw off the reactions of both the keeper and the CB to the cross. I thought it was a great play. I can’t speak for the rest of the Red Bull’s season/playoffs because that was really the first time I watched them in a long time, but it certainly was a good game.

  27. still not convinced… And now we lametro and little nick joining in against me…. Snifffff I’m crying. Buaaaa…

    look; take your red bulls and your views of football

    ^***}## you have a real team hahaha to be proud of.. With a huge history of winning hahaha go to joisy to watch them ..enjoy..

    I will never support this team and hope ny comes out with another franchise… So enjoy it while it lasts cause after the final its me who will be laughing last… And for the RB its back to reality Mmmuahaha

  28. there should be no questions of “whether they should be in the finals”… they may have barely scrapped into the playoffs, but they turned it on when it was needed….

    a road demolishing of the defending champs, a road win in RSL… i think Redbulls game arrived in just the right time…. would have been no different if the fire beat NE last year….

    congrats to the redbulls…. never thought id say this, but for obvious reasons, im hoping CLB wins -.-

  29. I have to say this was very lucky, but its a great win nontheless. The RSL fans were rowdy and the field was painted as narrow as a bowling lane to negate Richards and VandenBerg on the width. The fact that the field was that narrow is a crime and RSL took full advantage of home field. Hats off the RBNY for holding on in the 2nd half.

    But you cannot see it is not deserved, they had a great road victory last week and this one was pure toughness.

  30. Roberto you obviously have no education about soccer in america, or in general for that matter. Open up your eyes and realize that these are two teams that have never made it to this stage of the playoffs…EVER!!! With your mentality the eurosnobs can also say…Columbus, thats the team that is led by a washed up argentine that couldn’t make it in his home country any longer (remember everyone that is not my way of thinking that is roberto’s way). Listen I am a diehard redbulls/metros fan from day one so nothing would please me more than to see them win. But to say that columbus has to win for the sake of MLS is wrong.

  31. I felt so bad, as a season ticket holder of the Red Bulls for the past 5 years, winning that game. It just felt so undeserved. I hate the argument that since we scored one goal, the Red Bulls deserved it. We all know as soccer players and fans, that soccer could be a very unfair game and yesterday it was just that. Of course it’s nice going to the final but I have to admit, RSL, without a doubt, played a much better brand of soccer than the Red Bulls “boot it up the field” play in the second half. It’s just frustrating to see that when they have the talent to play a more attractive style.

  32. Excellent post, Ives. Luck is part of the game. After 12 years of a lot of bad luck, it’s finally time we had some good luck. Who cares how ugly the play was? Love the analogy above of Terry slipping on his PK costing Chelsea the Champions League. Here’s to hoping our luck helps carry us through one more game.

  33. When Greece won the Euro’s in ’04, they bunkered much more than RBNY has in it’s last two games. Still I remember the response being overwhelmingly positive.

  34. Beaten by four goals, but that was back in May against a team still fielding Reyna, Altidore, Freeman, Parke, Conway, etc.

    On the other hand Chicago was beaten 4-1 at home by FC Dallas (who didn’t manage to make the playoffs) less than two months ago. Does that mean Chicago were unworthy? Obviously not.

    On a positive note, we were the only team to beat Columbus twice this season. For whatever reason nobody has bothered to mention this ahead of the MLS Cup.

    And to Roberto: f*ck off. Maybe you’re obsessed with what everybody thinks, but we’re not. We’re in the f*cking final. We’re proud because the young players have stepped up and because we’re “real” fans.

  35. Roberto, you my friend are and imbecile. There is a reason for a playoff after all. Thats to give all the teams that qualify, and the Red Bulls last time I checked did qualify, a chance to win. The Playoffs is the reward you get for posting the best 8 records in the regular season. Nothing more nothing less. Why not change the format to the Champions League, or the freaking World Cup? Playoffs are for teams that can grind those needed results to win in a short time. Houston and Real could not do, NY found a way. And if you still have a problem with a “lower skilled team” winning a playoff, then Europe needs to get rid of the Euros.

  36. ..roberto you surprise me even more.

    you want 1 reason? how about Western Conference Champions !! im sorry that you have such a hard time living in reality where.. you know.. games are won by teams putting balls in the net..not by how “creative” the teams play.

  37. It was an ugly win no doubt, but at the very least more of the complaints about the Red Bulls not deserving of their win in the semis should certainly be spent criticizing the horrid finishing by Movsissyan et all, no?

  38. Roberto, you my friend are and imbecile. There is a reason for a playoff after all. Thats to give all the teams that qualify, and the Red Bulls last time I checked did qualify, a chance to win. The Playoffs is the reward you get for posting the best 8 records in the regular season. Nothing more nothing less. Why not change the format to the Champions League, or the freaking World Cup? Playoffs are for teams that can grind those needed results to win in a short time. Houston and Real could not do, NY found a way. And if you still have a problem with a “lower skilled team” winning a playoff, then Europe needs to get rid of the Euros.

  39. why was my last comment removed? I didnt say anything different than what that guy with the absurd user name said… Yeah mastershake!! He even insulted me for my opinion which is true; the possible MLS champ was beat by a “real” team at their giants stadium by 5 or 6 goals I don’t remember… My question to all these loosers is what is it that makes you proud of this team? Huh? Give a good friggin answer…. Convince me.

    mastershake I feel sorry for you really

  40. Ives,

    First of all, thanks for calling out Lalas!

    If the Red Bulls win the title, do you think people will have the same disdain as they do for that Galaxy team a few years back? Randall touched on it, but no one else has commented on it. I remember LA taking a lot of heat for being undeserving, but they made a run just like New York. Writers (I won’t mention names) and fans blasted LA and the playoff format. Will those same people blast the Red Bulls?

  41. Red Bull isn’t there to entertain, they’re there to win games. Look at the players this team is working with. It’s win or go home time. You go with a strategy that gives you the best chance to win. That’s how you get inferior teams to beat superior teams. A little luck won’t hurt either.

  42. To be honest I have no problem with fellow fans or neutrals saying how lucky RBNY were this weekend. It’s the haters I can’t stand.

    You see, the haters are crybabies. They ONLY care about doing anything they can to whine and moan, and act like children to anything related to RBNY. That’s just how it is. It is those same very people who would be taunting the Red Bulls if their own team was in its place, no matter how much luck was involved. The people that can’t see both sides of things bother me, but an honest neutral spitting truth does not.

    I am biased and don’t hide it; at the same time I am able to see both sides of things, no matter what, even if my temper gets the best of me.

    Bottom line is they ARE lucky, but what about Chicago ousting the Red Bulls in 2000? On 2 ridiculous blown calls? Is that not luck? But no one cared because it was the MetroStars, literally. We are the most hated team in the league, which is almost crazy given the number of championships held by other clubs such as D.C., Houston, etc. This is our first time past a conference final, and yet it seems like MLS fans hate RBNY/MetroStars with more passion than any of the other 13 teams.

    It makes sense, kind of. After all it’s “New York,” even though it’s really Jersey. But it’s specifically these unreasonable haters doing it. I have no problem with a rational D.C. fan explaining a point and pointing to luck. I do have a problem with a mindless fan literally making up fantasy stories and posting them publicly because they are nothing more than bitter, whiny little b@tches.

    And for the record, that whiny little poosay that posted earlier still hasn’t bothered to drop me an email.

    Also, Adam, great point. I’d like to toss in as an aside that I disagree with Leitch completely. I HATE with a passion any player stalling for time by faking injury. I hate it. The MetroBulls haven’t done much of that over the years, but in this sport I think that’s just lucky for me as a fan who hates it. I know everyone does it. But a good ref, as we had this weekend, notes it and that’s why we got that crazy 4 minutes.

  43. Ah, the Red Bulls didn’t earn enough style points to advance! Perhaps we can get rid of this silly ‘team who scores the most goals wins’ rule, and find something fairer.

    I propose the hiring of a panel of judges, whose purpose would be evaluating the aesthetic value of the game played by each team. Combine the score of each judge (based on a 1-10 scale); throw out the high and low scores, and the team with the highest average wins.

  44. Camjam, I agree that the play was ugly. but it was effective and thats all that matters, RSL had COUNTLESS opportunities to put NY away..yet they failed to convert them. Dont blame NY for RSL’s inability to convert.

    NY was playing on the road at altitude with a team full of rookies and benchwarmers..with a possibility of going to overtime…i expected them to play counter attacking football.

    Lets not forget we beat DC 4-1,Houston 3-0..twice,LA 5-4 in 2007, Crew 3-1..

    ugly games happen all over the world..its just the nature of the game.


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