Meetings between the Mexican national team and Panama are always heated, but Thursday night’s clash in the CONCACAF Gold Cup took the rivalry to new, uglier levels.
Fan violence in the stands and clashes on the field turned the match into an ugly encounter as three red cards and one very unfortunate intervention by Mexican head coach Javier Aguirre (and his subsequent ejection) transformed the match into a farce. The final result was 1-1, but both teams lost in the grand scheme of things.
For those who missed it, here are some of the highlights:
Lost in the wake of the ugly Mexico-Panama match was Guadeloupe’s 2-0 victory against Nicaragua, which secured Guadeloup’s place in the semis. Now the unbeaten French territory will face Mexico on Sunday with first place in the group on the line.
What did you think of last night’s match? Were you impressed with Guadelope’s victory against NIcaragua? will you be rooting for Guadeloupe against Mexico in their final group game?
Share your thoughts below.
Ouch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERBBNlLeX6Q
Posted by: Rastafari | July 10, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Sadly, this is not an isolated event for Mexican soccer fans. I remember a friendly in LA late last year between Mexico and Chile (which Chile won) and I remember after Chile’s goal, as Chile’s fans started to celebrate, it started to rain cups, bottles and popcorn all over them, courtesy of the Mexicans.
Too many post to read, some of you are too obsessed with the Mexican National team. As always, great job Ives, you know how to keep your fans coming.
@Bob: Please stop making sense.
Nothing warms my heart more than watching a central/south american game.. the 20 foot chained fences and riot police on the pitch give me butterflies..
Oh the beautiful game..
Thank you Bob.
What Mexico and their fans did was totally classless. But stop attributing things to “The Third World.” Fan rowdiness happens in every nation, underdeveloped or not. Player rowdiness as well! From Aguirre’s kick to Zidane’s headbutt, this kind of stuff happens yearly in the world of soccer, in Europe, Latin America, Africa, Asia AND North America. So stop blaming it on Mexico and its third world-ness or “Latin culture.” Thank you.
Credit to Ochoa, I like that guy.
I hope we smash them in Azteca.
@Mason–Unless I missed something, I think that Christian was just recounting the story. I didn’t take it as any melodrama at all. Just like I don’t think anyone would take you recounting the Ramirez story as being melodramatic if someone was asking about an “incident”.
Christian and TonyT,
I appreciate your thoughtful replies. I can appreciate (although I’m sure that I can’t fully understand) what the pitch means to Mexican soccer. My point is that the media reporting of Donovan’s intent is grossly exaggerated. A few things to consider: 1) I bet he has urinated on the sidelines of his own home field hundreds of times, 2) I would feel a much greater degree of “disrespect” if he were standing in the middle of the pitch doing that in an obvious way. Having seen the video – its clear he was trying to be inconspicuous, off to the side, kneeling down, etc. and his response was embarrassment after the media got it.
I just don’t like seeing any of these things get escalated – its too easy to assume that the rival has the worst intentions. For me – I’m convinced that Donovan meant no disrespect, and I’m equally convinced that Aguirre did not mean to kick an opposing player (let alone intentionally injure him).
Ouch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERBBNlLeX6Q
Posted by: Rastafari | July 10, 2009 at 11:05 AM
I love the female voice in the audio that says, “he asked for it.” with a perfect US English accent
jtd–you probably know this and were speaking figuratively, but “ugly American” refers to the loud and self-absorbed way Americans are perceived as having absolutely no cultural sensitivity in their global travels.
Incidentally, Germans have been called the “Americans of Europe” in their expansive travel habits, but perhaps not so much for their “ugliness”, which seems an American phenonmenon.
I am speaking as a US born citizen who lives stateside. I just grew up in Germany, from age 8 to 15.
🙂
bluewhitelion…
i agree with the general sentiment of your post, but, really, any German speaking of “ugly Americans” needs to look in the mirror or at their family photos.
lived in germany a number of years and, well, generally, they are not a pretty people.
i’d take their social institutions in a heartbeat though. 🙂
Posted by: jtd | July 10, 2009 at 12:48 PM
what Germans were speaking of ugly Americans?
Jim
The incident took place on the pitch of Jalisco.
Hence the criticism of Donovan.
Posted by: Christian | July 10, 2009 at 12:16 PM
====
And Manny peed inside the Green Monster. Stop being melodramatic.
bluewhitelion…
i agree with the general sentiment of your post, but, really, any German speaking of “ugly Americans” needs to look in the mirror or at their family photos.
lived in germany a number of years and, well, generally, they are not a pretty people.
i’d take their social institutions in a heartbeat though. 🙂
Too funny…..look at the cop laughing as Perez is getting littered with cups!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/gallery;_ylt=Ajd.Ddq1Jf71j7gOlc8g8aoUwLYF#photoViewer=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cap%3A20050301%3Asow%2Cphoto%2C77ed0cdc825c43cab717c65c30a856c2.gold_cup_panama_mexico_soccer_txdp121%3A1
La Norte, sorry but yes I would say your attitude is racist, if not self-hating. Sorry buddy, but listing three events that I’m sure have happened at other soccer games around the world not just Latin America doesn’t convince me otherwise.
@JCC, you know, you need to stop changing the topic. You need to admit that Aguirre deliberately stuck his foot out to provoke the Panamanian player. He admits to it, why can’t you? Why change the subject to racist insults. You don’t think those people weren’t provoked by Aguirre’s and the players’ bad behavior?
Posted by: KenC | July 10, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Please KenC, show me an exact quote where Aguirre said, “I deliberately provoked Phillips.”
@Frank–Throwing around the word “racist” by not making distinctions between “some” of the people posting here (as opposed to giving the impression that you think that it is all), you are doing the something similar to what you feel that some of the people here have done (and I agree that some of the comments are almost laughable).
Gold Cup being played here ins the States has more to do with the ca$h than anything else. The demographics. The advantadge that you are referring to is an indirect result.
I remeber back in 05 or 03 or 01 (sorry but I am too lazy to look it up) when at least some of the games took place in Mexico.
Even if Mexico could make the full move to CONMEBOL I am not sure that it would because that fed has not always treated Mexico or Mexican clubs with respect or without bias.
Aguirre looks like he is ashamed of himself. Sometimes even gentleman make mistakes. The guy is human.
Hey everybody, don’t worry. Like ChinChin said Aguirre admitted that his PATHETIC, CLASSLESS, SCUMBAG behavior was a mistake. That makes it all okay.
I love that Mexico are terrible now, and I love even more that their players and fans act like they are still a great team. It makes every single match where they suck that much more entertaining to me. We own them.
Jim
The incident took place on the pitch of Jalisco.
Hence the criticism of Donovan.
TonyT – Donovan did not piss on the pitch at Estadio Jalisco. He took a leak in bushes near (not on) a practice field during a training session there the day before the match, which was an Olympic qualifier. It should be noted that the locker rooms at the facility were not unlocked, so there was no alternative place to go. The event was blown out of proportion by the Mexican press and has become essentially an urban myth. This was also the match where Mexican fans taunted the US with “Osama” chants.
@Beto y Chin-Hermanos, les felecito y les agredezco por hacer la paz. Sometimetimes when the blood gets boiling things and when emotions are running high words get exchanged. Cuidense.
Chin–Thanks a lot for the link to the Aguirre aoplogy.
You guys are frickin idiots here and Ives is just an enabler of Mexican hate. Ive’s you need to be responsible and step in instead of instigating. What do yo have against Mexico? Mexico never invaded Peru. You should hate Spain instead.
Also I have been to Raider games that are worse than what I have seen of the Mexican-American fans. And that is the key word Mexican-American. You guys make it sound like all the fans in Houston crossed the border to attend the game. Frickin racists. You guys give this country a bad name.
And Aguirre did screw up and should be suspended for the rest of the tournament. He should be ashamed of himself. However, that was Panama’s game plan since the beginning and the ref let it get a way when he did not Book Perez after that ridiculous late hit on Ochoa.
CONCACAF is a Micky Mouse confederations and this Gold Cup is a Micky Mouse tournament that is always played in the US thus gives a huge advantage to them. Mexico needs to get out of the CONCACAF and join CONMEBOL already.
Tim R, you may not think it’s that big a deal but urinating on the Estadio Jalisco pitch is/was/and will be seen as a huge sign of disrespect because of what that stadium means to Mexican Soccer.
There’s no American equivalent because of the short history of American Soccer so I don’t expect you to understand but don’t try to sweep it under the rug.
Estadio Jalisco is not a bathroom.
Posted by: Christian | July 10, 2009 at 11:55 AM
This is one of those cultural things. I can fully understand the ire of a Mexican national at seeing this. I can also fully understand that Donovan was just taking a whiz. I have whizzed on my own team’s “sacred ground.” If you gotta go, you gotta go. I doubt Landon will ever do that again. If he does, then he needs to be called out for an act he KNEW would be received as disrespectful. As for his initial act, a grown up would recognize, even though their own disgust and feelings of being disrespected are there, they can offer–SHOCK–forgiveness and move on. If you perpetuate this one infraction into inifinity, it will only feed animosity. At some point you have to break with the mistakes of the past.
Always trying to give paybacks ends up with situations like we see in the Middle East, or with our own country’s gang violence, or messy drawn out divorce proceedings. It never serves humanity very well.
Question: did Donovan ever express contrition or regret for his whiz? (i realllydon’t know the answer)
TonyT,
The incident you described did not occur at Azteca, but on a practice filed during a training session, get your facts straight.
With all of the problems with Mexico how can you compare the conduct of the US with them?
That is ridiculous. When US players show a lack of class they should be criticized, however there is nothing like the problem there is with Mexico and it cannot be said this an isolated incident during a game. There is a clear pattern over many years.
@JCC, you know, you need to stop changing the topic. You need to admit that Aguirre deliberately stuck his foot out to provoke the Panamanian player. He admits to it, why can’t you? Why change the subject to racist insults. You don’t think those people weren’t provoked by Aguirre’s and the players’ bad behavior?
TimR, I know the point your trying to make, but if my living room carpet is made out of grass, is it still ok to urinate on it? Yeah I think not. The whole pissing thing is in the past, but still in the history files, this whole issue came up with people calling another team classless and “typical low class Mexican soccer” and this is just some of the comments, I think a lot of the comments made here are ridiculous and border line racist comments. And I say racist because a lot of comments are made out of hate towards another race, towards at Mexican soccer players and fans.
@yankiboy—
Actually, my better half is golden. She’s been to three US games, decked out head to toe, jersey, scarf, the whole nine.
I’ve think I’ve made her a pretty passionate US fan. She cheered for Santino on Wednesday, and I’ve seen her curse Eddie Johnson for loafing on the field.
I think it’s when I’m up watching EPL at 7 in the morning or watching a Guadeloupe / Panama game in Spanish that she’ll say something.
I have no complaints.
speaking of class, there WAS a shining example of that by a Mexican teammember, I think, after the Columbus qualifier this year. Does anybody remember that? I seem to recall a player from Mexico shaking hands, etc, the ONLY Mexican player to do so. Who was that? Was it Ochoa?
JCC,
hey buddy there are many hispanic fans posting the same thing about Aguirre and mexico, lets not act dumb, we may be hispanic but that doesnt mean we have to be blind. in fact as a hispanic we should be more enraged that this guy and these type of people no matter where they are from show such low class. I love my hispanic roots, the food, the culture the passion, but not everything from our hispanic countries are great, we know that thats why many of us came to this country, for a better life. If this happend once in a blue moon then yes people can say racism. but here is a list of things that i have seen this week alone that shows that not all but the majority of hispanic fans and players show no class and no respect for themselves or anyone playing the beutiful game, I am in the minority..
Velez vs Huracan
1) 2 footed dive with intent to injure a velez foward
2) strong kick by a velez forward helps them score the winning goal.
3) fights left and right
4) the diving whoa the diving
Us vs honduras
1) honduras players diving left and right
2) fans throwing beer onto the field
3) honduras fans throwing up gang signs and trying to pick fights
Panama vs mexico
1) aguirre going for the player
2) panama players diving
3) fights in the stands
4) players faking injuries.
seriously is this racism???? why can’t we talk about candians? or americans?
because they rarely cause trouble and never to this extent. the one thing I love about my team (US), is WIN, LOSE OR DRAW they never disgrace our country or our sport to try to win, cheat or get even against a player. That is something I would never give up for anything. Even when there are some bad apples (clark, conway) the federation makes sure they learn there lesson so it does not happen again.
yankiboy–good thoughts. As a player and as a fan, I am harder on my own teams if they act stupid. I get rather embarrassed.
I must admit that I have also reacted out of emotion, rather than self-control, which appears to be what Aguirre was doing. I can understand his reaction, but we still can’t condone his action.
JCC, I am all for being vigilant against racism, but I am not quite comprehending what appears to be a hair trigger retort to almost anybody who critiques Mexico. I didn’t see most of the game yesterday (except the last 15 that stretched into 30~) so I can’t reflect on Mexico’s team play or attitude, but I did witness Aguirre. I saw the usual shoving, etc, that ensued, which is to be expected. Sounds like Panama were “dirty” in key parts of the game, and if that happened to me, it would be hard to keep it cool. But “keep it cool” is what we are called to do, especially the coach. he didn’t. His actions, as representative of El Tri, are what has earned my ire. That is added to many instances of the TEAM acting like sore losers vis a vis the American team. It is a systemic problem with them.
Tim R, you may not think it’s that big a deal but urinating on the Estadio Jalisco pitch is/was/and will be seen as a huge sign of disrespect because of what that stadium means to Mexican Soccer.
There’s no American equivalent because of the short history of American Soccer so I don’t expect you to understand but don’t try to sweep it under the rug.
Estadio Jalisco is not a bathroom.
From bags of urine to batteries to coaches assaulting players, CONCACAF has a l-o-o-ng way to go to clean up its act. Do you think UEFA would continue to allow the shenanigans that too often characterize play in this region? It’s no coincidence that the head of the federation shares a name with the folks who gave us Daffy Duck.
I think people should understand one thing we want to win in sports to gain respect from our peers and fans but I think respect is also earned when we lose with dignity and class!!!!! Clearly not the case last night.
Finally, a comment with brain behind it!
Thanx BlueWhiteLion!!!
Posted by: John89 | July 10, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Thanks! Next time my wife accuses me of being brainless, I will show this affirmation! 🙂
Mexico has really sunk low! Although Dos Santos looks much better then Adu has.
JCC,
I initially thought Aguirre was going for the ball and gave him the benefit of the doubt earlier in these posts. Now I tend to believe it was a deliberate act based on his quotes.
If Scolari punched a Serb player, I hope he was banned too. I like a coach with passion, you just can’t let it spill over into some sort of violence. I can’t tell you how much Bruce Arena annoyed me with his arm waiving at refs. It was so passionless and dull.
Posted by: Erik | July 10, 2009 at 11:09 AM
RIGHT ON, Erik–we are targeting the behavior and naming names. It’s not a matter of being biased against a team or ethnic group.
ChinChin
No pex bro … estoy deacuerdo contigo el Chepo era el ideal … paro ya vez q brillantes son los directivos … y la verdad seria un muy buen escarmiento que no fueran al mundial, pero imaginate un mundial sin Mex , nooo seria como ir a la playa y no nadar , perderia todo el interes, pero en fin , take care !!
It’s too bad that it happened, as it is embarrassing for the region and the tournament. Aguirre is an ass-clown — not amount of apologizing excuses that sort of thing from a coach. The ref gave two suspect red cards to Panamanians, and then failed to card Perez for his blatant foul on Ochoa. Although, myself, I wouldn’t have given a card there either, simply because the roll on the ground antics, like those employed by Ochoa there, annoy me.
Bottomline, El Tri was out-coached and drew with a seriously inferior team. A bunch of fans got drunk and paid good money to watch the team they love stink it up. I understand — I’m an Astros fan. But throwing things on the field and at players is inexcusable. It’s not racist to say as much.
The real problem here is the Mexican national team and its clear lack of confidence and tactical acumen. They are not struggling for lack of talent. they struggle because they lack leadership, resolve, and a coherent, sensible playing style.
Beto-
Perdon bro, yo tambien estoy super enchilado! Deberian de haber puesto al “Chepo” de la Torre. Y si asi siguen la verdad que NO VAYAN AL MUNDIAL!!!
As a US fan – I want every advantage over our most skilled rival. BUT I don’t want a non-CONCACAF team (Guadaloupe) beating the best teams in our region.
Easy TonyT – its a soccer field made up of grass and dirt. All athletes relieve themselves outdoors when they think they are unwatched. Its not a matter of disrespect – its a matter of logistics. The fact that the media filmed it and made it into a huge “statement” is about the media – its not equivalent to someone urinating in your living room.
Tim R, you bring up a good point that has been ignored. That foul on Ochoa set the tone for the night and Perez should have been red carded or at least yellow carded in order to nip that kind of play in the bud.
As far as the play on the field, I really have no issue with it.
Each region has a different style of play. Central American is VERY physical, with a lot of melodrama. That’s okay. Last night was a typical Central American match. As US fans we should be used to it by now.
Just like you know what an Italy game will play like, or a South American, or African, or the few different styles of continental soccer (France/Portugal or England/Germany styles).
Mexico, for the most part plays that Central American style. It’s frustrating, because honestly, if they played to thier players’ technical and creative strengths, without getting caught up in the typical Central American foolishness, they’d be an enjoyable side to watch. But that’s another story for another day.
The blame for last night lies directly at the feet of:
A. The referee
B. Javier Aguirre (literally)
C. Fans who feel it’s okay to throw stuff at players
Last night was reminiscient of the last Guate qualifier, where a bloodied Eddie Lewis had to be protected by riot shields to get to the locker room.
Wow…Javier Aguirre’s actions in this match are a PERFECT metaphor for the frustration that Mexican NATS are feeling. There has NEVER been a better opportunity for us to win in Azteca. This next qualification match will be a lot of fun!
Well yankiboy-
Here’s something classy for you to see, Aguirre admitting his mistake (in more ways than one) like the gentleman I know him to be, and once again trying to reach that high standard that I know for a fact, his parents set for him-
http://www.mediotiempo.com/futbol/seleccion-mexicana/reacciones/2009/07/10/pido-perdon-a-todos-me-equivoque-y-no-volvera-a-suceder-aguirre_24224
Respect!!!
Lost in all of the ballyhoo is the fact that Panama got exactly the game they tried to get. If Perez had been carded early in the game for going into Ochoa after the ball was out of bounds this all could have been avoided. I’m a little bemused by the Panamanian coach crying about the roughness of the game when their tactics instigated it.
I get really angry about these tactics when they are initiated by Mexico against my team (US) – but have to be fair that they were on the receiving end.
Dave really? Sticking your foot out in front of someone is not going to get my attention, but pissing in someones house on the living room floor or in the corner is another, why dont we all go and piss on your walls and see how you like it. You dont go and piss on someones sacred grounds when theres is so much history there. But I guess theres more history to be added there now. You can add a national team coming to your house and pissing all over it. Very Classy huh?
Mike, I agree that Aguirre should be suspended, I’ve never said the contrary. But what bothers me are the comments that say “Aguirre should be banned, typical low-class Mexico.” Once you add that last part, it no longer seems like an attack on the individual, but instead it sounds like an ulterior motive to add some sort of racial element to the discussion instead of just leaving it at Aguirre’s actions. Bringing stuff up like immigration or typical Mexican this or that adds nothing but anger to the mix.
for ChinChin , que no tengo nada de Mexicano ?? cada que pirde la seleccion me encabrono como no tienes idea, mi pasion por el futbol solo ve directa hacia la seleccion, pero viendo que es dirigida por un tipo que ni ganas de dirigirla tiene y es asesorado por un pendejo que hace trucos de brujeria ?? asi crees que quiero que la seleccion avance ?? para nada, prefiero q los eliminen de la copa y que rectifiquen las cosas para no perder el 12 de Agosto contra EUA ok !!