Comments

1. I agree, just like those who don’t like the president and his policies should shut and leave. If you don’t like American, leave, just don’t try and voice your thoughts and opinions, this is America for goodness sake, we don’t tolerate that kind of crap.

2. John Terry looks like a fairy.

3. There was no need to make this law in the first place. It will be struck down on the sole basis that the state is overstepping its boundaries into what is a federal matter. But beyond that, many laws are struck down because of the actual implications of their implementation.

   This law is like waterproofing your house instead of fixing the dam that is about to break.

4. Have you now argued that this law is completely redundant and unnecessary? You could have said this up front and saved us all a lot of grief.

5. It may help to distinguish between the desire to solve the illegal immigration problem (popular) and this particular attempt at it (dangerously flawed). Or, it may not, as statistics indicate violent crime in AZ declining over the last decade. And then, a new AZ law banning ethnic studies courses in state schools? Fighting off MLK day in the 80’s? There is a pattern implied here.

6. But the hyperbole of misinformation about this law might have made it hard to draw a good crowd anyway.

7. Wrong. Do not be arrested for an unrelated crime or try to apply for Gov’t grants when you’re an illegal Canadian that snuck across the border and made your way to Phoenix to get closer to Wayne Gretzky.

8. But we cannot throw out laws because they “might” be misused by crooked cops or whatever. Heck, any cop “might” put a little packet of coke in anyone’s pocket as they arrest them, that doesn’t mean we should allow the sell of cocaine out of fear of some backwoods redneck cop warping the law.

9. agree that the only people being punished are the fans, the majority whom are either Mexican or of Mexican descent, who would have attended the game…

10. He seems like a good coach. However, their league position fell hard this year as they focused on the Europa league. I get that he has limited resources, but what other teams could have accomplished this if they had decided that midtable finishes were acceptible for Europa Cup glory?

11. There are some things that I usually make a point of not discussing. This would be one of them. So I am going to try and leave my personal opinions about the law or some of the posts here alone.

    I am selective about where I spend my money because it is one of the best ways to express you opinion

    If the Mexican clubs don’t want to play in Arizona then they shouldn’t do it.

    They will live. Arizona will live. The people who would have attended the games or worked the games or benefited economically had they played them will all survive.

12. Do not carry a hockey stick in Arizona public as it shows probable cause that you are an illegal from Canada.

13. As would I.

    I believe this law will just exacerbate some serious racial profiling.

    What some corrupt Texan cops have to do with this, is that it is an example of reality. If the letter of the law was followed, we would never have problems.

14. What does some corrupt Texan cops have to do with the rest?

    How can checking legal status of people who apply for aid, jobs, or have been arrested be racial profiling?

    There no bigotry from my part. I for one would triple (maybe even more then quadruple) legal immigration if we could stop illegal immigration.

    I’d gladly send some deadbeat Americans over in exchange for some hardworking immigrants any day of the week.

15. Calling people who support our laws racist or bigots is also BS.

16. Good point, you are the first person to pull up the kidnapping. Arizona has the most kidnappings out of any state in the US and like you said the majority is done by illegals. So if you want then shame on AZ for protecting their kids. The funniest thing about this is that they break the law in the first place to get here and then there isn’t a punishment for doing it. Good for AZ, next state up Texas.

17. There’s no need to go there.

    We’ve had a civil discussion and we should keep it that way.

    Your point about having to provide identification is valid, the rest is hateful and doesn’t add anything of value.

18. I wish I was as smart as you, AKDN!

19. There would be no question on this issue if the Federal Government did what it is supposed to do. Arizona is stepping in to fill the role that the Feds have failed to do. Remember this is about ILLEGAL ENTRANCE into the USA, it is about massive kidnappings and gang violence in Arizona, it is about drug running, it is about HUMAN TRAFFICING and SLAVERY. How that is lost by people against border control is beyond me. Again this is a local response to a lack of Federal support for an issue that has been on going for years.

    Since the Mexican government won’t do anything about it and the USA government is afraid to act, locals must do so.

20. I am a white guy, and I am pretty sure if the cops pull me over for speeding they will ask me for identification. What part of illegal is confusing. Go back to mehico if you don’t like it here and shut up.

21. Anyone for this law is simply not thinking or is, and are bigoted, period.

    Nobody is saying that immigration laws aren’t necessary. They are saying that this law is going to legalize racial profiling that ALREADY happens. You think people follow the letter of the law? You think police follow the letter of the law? If yes, then you’re a moron.

    Just last year, they finished an investigation into an entire police department in Texas that had been fleecing and stealing from hundreds of black people.

    If I had to guess, many people who argue that the law is not unconstitutional have either never been outside of their house, or are using the letter of the law as a shield for their own bigotry.

22. Are you seriously equating this with apartheid?

    But, in some ways, since I bought the “Ain’t gonna play Sun City” record, I do admit participation in the anti-apartheid movement. There are just so many ways to distinguish the two that I would rather watch a soccer game than explain why you are wrong.

23. There you go again! Is that all your side has to offer on the debate? The false claim that police are going to stop people and demand to see papers?

    As said time after time, if you’re arrested you have to give the same info everyone has always given when arrested. If you apply for gov’t aid you have to give the same info ever given. If you apply for a job and don’t have a soc sec or visa or guest worker proof then here’s the real change: they don’t just look the other way. They turn over their info to the police who will, most likely, then just look the other way.

24. I would agree that it’s both, but you’re wrong for correcting me, for it certainly is sports-related when it involves a decision by two football clubs.

25. That’s the thing. Every person HAS had to prove citizenship every time they have to give a social security number or driver’s liscense (which by virtue of the law will now only be held by legals). Every time you’ve had to put a passport number or show a passport as you have reentered the country you have gone through the same thing.

26. So, Paco Torres played something like 60 minutes in Pachuca’s 2-2 draw with Toluca in the “away” leg of the semis. Anybody see him play, have any impressions?

27. Sounds like a real fun state to visit. Everyone constantly walking around waiting to have their papers demanded of them or face arrest. Real sensible way to spend the day. Or is there an intent to exempt certain people from this screening? Every person inside state borders must have papers on them? or only certain people? How does one decide whom to paper and whom to arrest? hmm…

28. If you are going to resort to hyperbole (“no human is illegal”) Than what about other such statements? “Everyone on earth is not a United States Citizen.” As you can see, these broad brush strokes don’t really contribute much to the conversation.

    But the real point behind this post is that these clubs are from a foreign country and they are trying to score points with their fans by standing up to “El Gringo” or “Blanco”. Far from having merely having no shame, they act as emboldened and entitled meddlers. The real reason that they have these games is partly because the fans are here and partly because it’s not safe to play in their own country with anyone with money being shot in the head or kidnapped these days.

    Yes, the idea of “Papers Please!” is troubling when it’s intended to seperate out members of a population who are citizens, but is this law intended to do that? I am just no seeing that. Certainly not to an extent that should allow these foreign clubs to tell Americans what laws are good and what laws are bad. We let the Chinese do that with our trade laws and all it got us was Wal-Mart.

29. Oh, and when the cop pulls you over for that broken tail-light he is supposed to run your liscense and registration to make sure they didn’t just luck upon a wanted criminal right?

    Same thing. If you don’t have a liscense or registration what happens to you?

30. No, he’s way off, actually. Mexico reformed its immigration law in late 2008, and repealed the sections allowing prison sentences for illegal immigrants. Link to the immigration law (Spanish language PDF) at my name.

31. You’re missing the point. The government officials (cops, social workers, etc.) must have ALREADY had a reason for contact.

    Just walking down the street and spotting a hispanic person doesn’t mean they can ask for papers. The person in question must have already been arrested, applied for gov’t aid, had social workers sent to check on their children, or applied for a job.

    The only thing in the bill that would require a judgement call would be that cops can now give a citation to someone for blocking traffic in public for blocking the road to allow day laborers to jump on their truck. This would require the cops to decide if the truck is obstructing the road or not, a judgement they make when issuing a normal traffic citation that is now just accompanied by an additional punishment.

32. So, the bar to compare US domestic policy with is Mexico? I have higher expectations for this great nation than that.

33. Cool, GULF breezes, actually. If you want to have a convention in Florida you’re better off in Tampa then Miami or Orlando in terms of weather. Not any other major Florida cities that could hold the event.

34. You people realize that a lot of Mexican-Americans are sick of illegal immigration in Arizona too right? I’m Mexican(who’s parents immigrated LEGALLY) and I support the law – looking at the crime statistics for Arizona, the kidnapping capital of the united states, and you’ll see the vast majority of it is done by illegal immigrants.

    But if you think this is a racist, white republican issue then I invite you to look at opinion polls of hispanics in arizona, you might be in for a shock.

35. Rory, I think that’s the basis of everyone’s argument, is that the police decide who is suspicious by having “probable cause.” Unfortunately, the officers Judgement is based on perception, in this matter, and could easily swing it in their favor by stating that they were at the SOCCER game that featured two MEXICAN teams and they looked of MEXICAN descent. Would that stand in a court of law? It very well could. Could you guarantee that these police officers would not set-up posts right outside of the stadium looking for probable cause? By the way, having a tail-light out on your vehicle is enough probable cause to pull you over, and then of course that gives the officer the opening to ask about your legal status. I think the argument is that there is too much power placed on these officers, and because of the fact that this law is highly based on personal judgement, it could potentially violate people’s civil rights.

    It is wrong to believe that because the government has not done more to solve the illegal immigration problem, that whatever law we do have is better than nothing. Also, please do not forget that the the Republicans had full control for eight years and did nothing, so do not blame this squarely on Obama or the Democrats like other ignorant people might do.

36. That’s right, the NFL, an American company told Arizona what to do and they caved. That’s still problematic from the “sports and politics mixing” perspective, for the NFL should not have a role in state law anymore than BP should have a role in drafting off shore oil regulations, but at least we took care of that problem in house.

37. If every person who is within AZ borders must present papers to prove citizenship upon request “during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county”, with no exceptions, and all who fail to present papers are arrested and sent camping with Sheriff Joe – no exceptions, then I guess it’s alright, just insane. But if there is judgement about who to paper, who to arrest, and who to leave be, then it is insane AND bigoted.

38. Right, because I’m the only one talking politics.

    Or actually, you’re just mad that I have responded to the ridiculous fear-mongering of the other side who are trying to conjure up images of the gestapo stopping anyone of color and demanding “your papers are not in order.”

    I would normally agree with your desire to keep politics out of here, however, Pachuca has specifically cited a political law as the reason for their cancelled trip. So in this case, Politics is very much a part of this discussion.

39. No human is illegal. As for the state of Arizona (same state that refused to recognize MLK day for years, stereotypes, anyone? anyone?), this is just the beginning. Their governor has ensured that her name and the state will live in infamy…hope the few MLS teams that held pre-season games in Arizona will follow-up and pull out of the state until the Nazi Germany law is repealed. In a country in which one of 3 LEGAL immigrants is a minority(a in 2 in just about 20 yrs.), this law serves as nothing more than a timely reminder as to how racist a protion of the Americans are…

    Why in times of economic crisis, we always look for someone else to blame(jews, blacks, immigrants)…read about Father Coughlin during the Great Depression and his anti-immigrant speeches…history repeating itself…as we all know, Father Coughlin was on the wrong side of history…now, this Arizona law is on the wrong side of both history AND demographics…at least it will prompt Congress to enact a just immigration legislation!

40. Everyone has conquerors and conquered in their ancestry? So, what? Take it all the way back to the first vanquished caveman and sign the deed for earth over to his progeny? What’s you point. This is about a sports club scoring business points with it’s target market while meddling in another nation’s affairs.

41. If they are gonna continue this stupid law I hope we start arresting people that look like illegal Canadians.

    Good for Pachuca. The Arizona law is a continued attack on people Latinos specifically and all of color from the state with a history of racial profiling issues and a demonstrated problem with people of color as evidenced by its refusal to honor Martin Luther King’s birthday. I don’t know how politically smart it is to attack the fastest growing ethnic demographic in the country. But if Republicans want to shoot themselves in the foot by demonizing Mexicans more power too them. U.S. soccer/MLS should do the same as Pachuca. Especially considering their piss poor history of appealing to Latinos and other people of color.

42. Slyboy, do you always tell other people what to do or think? I will decline to follow your advice when you say “Never” followed by anything. I cite opinion polls because they are consistent within Arizona and within the Nation. Your ancedoctal family story does little to change the reality that most Americans think the law makes sense.

43. Yeah, much better to be in the cool dry breezes of Tampa Florida in August than Houston…

44. Why would I need to read editors/journalists take on the law when I can read the law itself?

    Specifically, your sources claim it’s unconstitutional NOT because it will discriminate (which it won’t) but because it’s a duty of the Federal gov’t to enforce this particular law.

    Never before have states tried to enforce the federal government’s own laws when the feds have refused to do their duty, but that doesn’t mean it’s unconstitutional.

45. It’s a funny way to stand up for the Mexican Arizonans by depriving them of a soccer game. Most people who voted for the law probably never even heard of this game.

46. If you’ve ever read the law you will notice that it doesn’t allow random stops for paper checks.

    But if you are booked for another crime, applying for a job, or applying for government aid, you will have to show you are a citizen. The process will be simple and is already done in all of these circumstances but there is no follow up if you can’t comply under current policy (a policy of ignoring the federal law).

    1) what is your social security number. If you don’t have a social security number please fill in your visa, guest visa or passport information.

    2) What do you mean you don’t have any Soc Sec number or legal documentation you are an American?

    If you are being arrested already you will have another charge put against you. If you are applying for a job or government aid you will be rejected and will leave with your other information being turned over to the law who probably won’t do anything about it anyway.

47. In the Eighties many Americans and American companies boycotted and protested apartheid policies in South Africa. How would you feel if South Africa banned the US soccer team from participating in this year’s World Cup?

    People need to speak out against bad/wrong policies and it doesn’t matter what country they come from.

48. This.

49. Be glad Italy didn’t send you to jail on questionable murder charges like that one American girl.

50. Read this if you don’t think this law is violating other laws and people’s rights:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/23/law-profs-on-arizona-immigration-bill-its-unconstitutional/

    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/04/26/is_arizona_immigration_law_constitutional

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003549-503544.html

    http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-440442

    http://www.heraldstandard.com/news_detail/article/1239/2010/april/29/new-arizona-law-is-constitutional.html

    Do you want me to continue??

    Seriously, if you don’t see this law as a violation of your rights, then I guess your blinded by something else.

    And as for illegal immigrants: most pay taxes and take job no one else does. I totally agree about securing borders and preventing illegal immigration. But I DO NOT agree on having their and my right violated because we might look “suspicious”

Comments are closed.