By RYAN TOLMICH
The highly publicized feud between U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Jurgen Klinsmann and MLS commissioner Don Garber appears to be about much more than just comments made about the proper future of America’s stars.
ESPN reported on Friday that Seattle Sounders owner Adrian Hanauer and Philadelphia Union CEO Nick Sakiewicz were among two sources that stated that the league is becomingly increasingly frustrated with advice that Klinsmann is giving the country’s future stars. Chief among the league’s complaints is that Klinsmann has repeatedly told U.S. youth internationals and academy products to ply their trade in Europe and bypass MLS altogether.
“Some of our youth national team kids have reported to us that there have been European agents at their training sessions, and they have been encouraged to sign or look at European options by members of U.S. Soccer staff,” Sakiewicz said. “It’s disturbing to us, because we can’t afford to have our best players leave.
“I find it hard to believe that Mr. Klinsmann can take this approach when he has never seen or visited our academy. I invite him to come and see for himself and engage in constructive dialogue on how to improve the development of our players instead of simply encouraging them to go overseas.”
However, Klinsmann insists that he has given each player individual advice, as there is no single, universal way to develop young players.
“You have to look at every situation individually and help the player to determine what is best for himself,” Klinsmann said. “There are a lot of parts to the picture, things like the player’s ability, what his support structure is like, his past experiences, and his mentality and goals. Some kids would benefit from the environment in Europe, while others are best suited to continue their growth in MLS. There’s no one right answer that applies to all players, and each player’s circumstances change over time.”
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What do you think of the reported disagreement between MLS executives and Klinsmann? Where would you like to see the USMNT’s best young players play?
Share your thoughts below.
If you want to be the best you have to play with the best. I just wonder if MLS understands that. You want American Kids to stay and play MLS here then bring the best from Europe here. MLS can’t even beat the Mexican Teams in club competition in a consistent basis. MLS what do you expect?
Jurgen Klinsmann does not work for MLS owners or MLS so he has to protect his job by making sure the younger talents aspire to play with better competition which will make them better players. Playing with weaker talents in MLS will never improve their game.
For all I know, Fulham’s academy may be the cat’s pajamas, but… many English commentators believe that English training methods are inferior; the English FA is concerned that too few academy products are succeeding at the club level (so much so that the English FA wants to limit further they number of non-EU foreigners who can play in England); several English clubs have discontinued their academies; and, in any case, the number of academy graduates who remain in professional soccer in England is tiny (a survey some time back estimated that only 5% of 16-year-olds tied to professional clubs are playing professional soccer at age 21).
The reality is that producing high class soccer players is difficult. You have to start with literally hundreds of promising youngsters to produce a winning eleven. If nothing else, the US effort to date is simply not big enough — if you count the programs run by professional clubs. (and therefore perhaps we ought not to write off college programs) And unlike in Europe, soccer in the US does not attract the best athletes and so on and on.
If you look at MLS’s experience since inception, its record for developing young players is pretty awful, but still better than what came before. There will never be enough places in Europe for American youngsters to stock a strong national team. Going to Europe might be fine for some, but it is certainly only a small part of the answer.
Mr. Ian,
You act like the Hyndmans, grandpa and grandson, are morons.
I would submit both of them know quite a lot more, first hand, about soccer, European and American, than most of us,especially as it relates to player development.
And I would think Brian Strauss, the leak master, he- who- allegedly- ruined- Boca’s,- Lichaj’s –and- a player- to- be-named- later-or- maybe- never’s, USMNT career, would have a pretty good feel for the USMNT.
You say academies like Fulham produce a low percentage rate of pros in Europe? No kidding?
Compare that, for example, to how many kids go to NCAA Division One A schools on scholarship hoping to get a job in the NFL. There are players from other sources but just for the sake of comparison, there are 128 Div One A schools with 85 scholarships per which adds up to 10,880 players. The NFL has 32 teams with 53 man rosters equaling 1696 jobs. The NFL currently drafts 256 players every year . Of course there are other ways to get a job as a player in the NFL but the point is overall, it is a tough job for anyone, from anywhere, to get. You can do the math. I’m sure similar odds apply to most pro sports; why should soccer be any different?
They say that in Japan they don’t teach their kids now that they bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack.I can tell you it wasn’t the Germans.
I don’t know if that is true about the glossing over of details in WW2 but your posts remind us all of that alleged sort of attempt to re-write history.
With the exception of Landon and Eddie Pope just about all of the USMNT’s leading players for the past four World Cups have spent significant parts, if not all of their careers, abroad, some in Mexico or maybe elsewhere but most in Europe. The 2014 team had a record 10 MLS players ( two of whom, Mikey and Clint could be considered “ringers”) ironically put there by that noted anti- American himself, JK.
Whether this trend will hold true going forward is anyone’s guess. Rubin, Wood, Boyd, AJ, Gyau, Morales, Green, Hyndman, Mix, Yedlin, Jozy, Cameron, Guzan, Johnson and who-knows- what- new- guy, would seem to suggest that the foreign based player influence may well continue into the near future. Or not. Maybe Akindele and Nagbe and certainly Nguyen, will tip the balance back to the domestics.
Regardless, I haven’t seen anyone suggesting there should be some sort of quota either way. That Director from the Fulham academy in the SI article said it best about American players being able to get the best out of both worlds. Anti-European bias such as yours is pointless and just brings down what has been and should remain a vital part of the development of the USMNT player pool.
Seriously, did you read my post?
here’s an interesting read from the perspective of a rising american player…
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2014/11/12/fulham-academy-usmnt-usa-emerson-hyndman-fulhamerica
OR…..Kilnsmann is bringing up in conversation all the issues MLS like to keep quiet but are true (in his opinion):
1) MLS Academies rarely producing starters
2) Pro/rel
3) Stagnating league quality
He may or may not be right but at least he’s putting them on the table. MLS treats them like you treat your mom’s unemployed uncle who lives in the basement, can’t hold a job, drinks ripple and watches porn all day – they act like it’s not there and don’t talk about it.
My take on Klinsi’s attempt to bring the Nats in to the 21st century. —
Fickle Americans are slow to the change..
A lot of American Soccer fans are nostalgic folks who would rather take a step back than press in to the unknown.
White Mericans are intimidated by foreign coaches telling them anything.
Our players aren’t that great. They need training from good coaches.. MLS has two or there top coaches
There’s a lot of uneducated, catch phrase support for Klinsi on here. It is moronic.
How is it moronic?
I oppose Klinsmann as the USMNT coach and he continues to divide US Soccer from fans to investors and it’s not good for US Soccer. This country was headed in a good direction before him and now he’s unjustifiably creating rifts, bitterness, and anger that will have long-lasting effects.
Right now Europe is not a good place for Americans. Look at SBIs Yanks Abroad rewind. Out of 80, 10 are regular starters.
Most are DNP. So its a double edge sword. I was a huge advocate for Yanks to go to Europe but now the tide is not favorable to Americans. Maybe we are not good enough or maybe there is a baisis.
But today no one can say out right the best Americans are in Europe. I hopr this changes but from what am seeing no one is taking chances on Americans in Europe.
Each players case is different. But we have youth in Liverpool, ManU, ect and nothing has come from it. Look at Seba Lleget. I have always read how he was on of West Hams best products and at 22 he has not played a single professional game.
Look at Luis Gil over 100 games at RSL.
So who is helping who?
well then MLS, this is the time to battle and defy those thought and increase the money invested in players in order to attract better talent that can challenge this young stars. Jurgen just doesnt want to say to stop being so uptight with money, you have to take a risk to grow and what better than opening up those wallets.
I am the DON!
I saved MLS back in 1998!
I ushered it through MLS 2.0 and 3.0.
I gave you NYCFC and LAFC.
I saved soccer in the US.
I AM soccer in the US.
Only my opinion counts.
Not Klinsmann.
Not the NASL.
I AM US SOCCER – its past, present and FUTURE!
BWAAAHAAHAAHAA!
JK & USSoccer: “we need our best to be better and playing at highest level”
MLS: “we can’t afford to allow anyone to transfer to bigger leagues…further more its disrespectful to acknowledge progress in US soccer without outside of mls”
Two different perspectives exist in US Soccer represented here by Donovan and Klinsmann. Each has its merits and drawbacks. Klinsmann believes that each individual player needs to compete at the highest level for the US to become a soccer power, a develop the individual and the team will take care of itself sort of approach. This is reflected in the European approach to club organization. Buy the best players and the team will take care of itself. As a result Klinsmann is going to suggest that every player move to the highest level competition possible. Some will succeed and others won’t, but that’s not his highest concern. I think he feels that the best players will rise to the top, a survival of the fittest sort of mentality.
Donovan has articulated an entirely different narrative. He made his decisions based upon what would allow him to flourish and express himself. That meant finding a place where he could be comfortable, teammates he could work with and coaching that valued the collective group more than the individual. Of the great coaching feats in history, Donovan would rather play for Herb Brooks of the 1980 Olympic Hockey Team or Alex Ferguson that Pep Guardiola.
Klinsmann prefers a machine like approach to the game in which the team that plays the quickest and makes the fewest mistakes will always turn out best in the end. Donovan see the game as the whole is more than the sum of the parts, and a team of players with less individual ability can actually overcome a team with greater individual ability if they play as a unit. Donovan sees his success based upon the influence on the team, on full display during last year’s Gold Cup and the recent game against RSL.
Donovan believes that playing playing well means making the team better. Klinsmann believes playing well means being fitter, faster, higher tempo, fewer mistakes than the next player. That explains why Donovan and several other of the US National Team members thought he was one of the best players on the field in the run up to the World Cup. According to Klinsmann’s honest analysis he was just a step behind. They use two different metrics.
MLS is optimized for the development of players like Donovan who understand how to compete in a level playing field. Europe is optimized for the kinds of players Klinsmann like, individually brilliant and able to survive and flourish in a system that weeds out players on an individual basis. Bradley and Dempsey were successful in Jurgen’s mind, but they wanted to come back to a place where unity was valued over individual survival.
MLS is an experiment in soccer, that draws form experience with exclusively American sports. The rest of the world wins championships with money. In MLS the money is kept level and quality of the teamwork and culture get the results. As far as I know, no MLS team has been able to win the Cup without a few years to learn to work together. Schmidt and Arena are the ultimate coaches for the MLS system. They know how to pick players and how to organize them so the team becomes stronger than the individuals.
One last point. Klinsmann won championships with organizations that could out-spend nearly all their opponents. Landon won championships with organizations that built better teams with the same basic resources. I recognize that the Galaxy have more money than other teams. But the point remains the same, even when splashing big bucks for Beckham and Keane, it took Bruce and Donovan to put the hardware in the trophy case.
Easy fix. MLS owners figure out a way to pay the young players competitive money against their Europen counterparts. Omar didn’t go anywhere. Donovan made at least as much in the United States as he did in Europe. When MLS gets to the point where it can pay competitive salaries for its young players, even if they are lower than Europe. I don’t think they will have too much trouble keeping them.
You are comparing a player with a manager and it doesn’t really make a sensible comparison..
How much sense does it make to compare Joe Montana to Bill Belichik?
Donovan was not the one who had to assemble the the US teams he played for.
Bradley and Arena did that.
Unlike clubs, national teams can not go out and buy better players. The U.S. has overachieved in international play because its teams have played like teams and not like an all star aggregation. In the long run the U.S. may attract better athletes to professional soccer but in the meantime the approach followed by Arena and Bradley gives the U.S. the best chance to prosper. I suspect that it is not a coincidence that a manager in the Klinsmann model is little more than someone who gives out the orange slices at half time.
American players are weak. From the time they start playing as little kids they’re treated as they’re God’s gift to football with their perfect fields, matching uniforms and the expensive club fees designed to keep the rif raf out.
Let them go abroad to a real academy so they can learn what real competition is like. Let them see what’s like to have 6 players all gunning for your spot on the field. I’m sure it will be too much for most of thembut it’s the best way to get rid of the weak ones.
Your sentiments regarding pay-to-play are on the money.
As for the rest of your diatribe and over simplification of calling American’s weak and saying most would falter under the threat of competition is ridiculous. American’s may be outclassed in ability, but heart and toughness is something we have a corner of the market on.
I think this is where I say Murica’ now.
actually agree with you here Old School
but Bell, I don’t now what you’re talking about regarding perfect fields…LOL!!! we still play on some DUMPS all the time
and more than the pay to play issue imo is the lack of neighborhood pickup games and street ball type environments to provide stakes-free opportunities for kids to play and develop. academies and structured team environments can only provide so much
Klinsmann is right. If MLS academies can’t produce top talent then young players should go where their potential won’t be wasted.
If MLS don’t like it then they should improve their system.
Let the market do its thing. It’s better for the players, the league and the national team.
Is NASL gonna complain if Ibarra goes abroad? Klinsi doesnt work for MSL.
As Technical Director JK has a duty to comment on this sort of topic.
It is a topic that needs to be debated more than it has.
For a long time US soccer fan, seeing this much high profile attention devoted to it is unusual and encouraging.
And if anyone cares they can dig into JK’s statements on the topic and his actions and see that nobody is saying that if a kid does not pursue the “European option” he will never play a minute for the USMNT.
Any kid, or more likely his support structure (family, friends, coaches, future parasites, etc., I doubt most kids can make this decision strictly on their own) who thinks that is so stupid the kid will never make it anyway.
Every sport has the generally accepted path to success. For the NBA or the NFL it is get recruited by an established pro sport factory ( for example, Kentucky for the NBA , USC or Alabama for the NFL), do well, get drafted, become a zillionaire, impregnate a few dozen women, beat them …but we digress.
Then there are the other ways to make it in a sport. I had not noticed JK being prejudiced against the players who take the more unconventional route.
Besides this sort of thing is self – selecting. Giuseppe Rossi’s family had the wherewithal and the connections to get him set up in Italy at the very young age. Had they not been capable of that then he might have become just another good young soccer playing kid from New Jersey and who knows what happens.
This country is so big and so diverse; it needs as many varied paths as possible. American pro sports have long exploited the college farm system model but that obviously does not work as well for soccer. MLS needs to become more like major league baseball in terms of their many and varied ways of searching for and then exploiting and discarding young talent here and abroad.
If MLS did a better job developing players, paid the good ones better & didn’t have contrived player acquisition rules, they wouldn’t have these concerns,
Dandy Don & The Greedy Gang should look to the bard for inspiration:
“The fault lies not in the stars but within ourselves.”
I think once we all get behind the fact that successful national teams have top domestic leagues, things can really improve. And being a top domestic league means you are winning your regional competitions. Once we start winning CONCACAF champions leagues, and copa sud america, that’s when we will start winning world cups.
Maybe I should rephrase it to say World Cup winning nations have top domestic leagues.
+1 I don’t understand how people can imagine us winning a World Cup without a strong domestic league. Or why we would want to try We are a wealthy country with a large population. This should be an advantage!
But it can’t be done in a day… or a year…. or 5 years. Nonetheless MLS can and will become a top league. Patience will pay off. Look at how far we’ve already come.
another great post, you’re on a roll
Define “top league”.
Colombia is a potential World Cup contender. At the very least they appear to have a much larger pool of top players available than we do at present.
And I would say the majority of their best players play abroad.
They have a population of about 48 million, that is about 10 million more people than California.
So how come they have more and better players than we do?
I’ll give you a “Soccernomics”-borrowed answer. (If you have not read the book, I think you’d really enjoy it…. I didn’t even agree with many of the conclusions but it’s very good)
The authors fairnly convincingly model that the quality of a country’s players (and NT performance) is driven by three factors (1) Population (2) Income and (3) Experience, for which they use NT games played as a proxy.
We are badly deficient compared to Colombia (and most countries) on (3), and we are not not exactly getting the full value from (1) yet either, but we are catching up on both. A strong domestic league and underlying development system allows us to maximize our significant advantage on (2).
That’s the basic logic, anyway.
Cheers.
Mr. Ali,
I have not read Soccernomics.
The three factors sound sensible enough but I can think of a number of significant exceptions.
1. In terms of population, in 1992 Denmark, a small country with a league that even then was not exactly a powerhouse, won the European Championship, which is what the Euros used to be called and in 2004 Greece, another fairly small country did the same thing. The Euros are arguably the second most difficult tournament to win next to the World Cup. Neither of those two countries is presently what they were but they both have a history of producing quite a few top players for European clubs, Greece less so than Denmark. And I would add Scotland who for many years produced many fantastic players. In fact Scotland along with Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland arguably provided the majority of the great players for the great so called “English” clubs (like Liverpool) of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. And then those little countries just seemed to stop producing so many great or even good players.
2. In terms of income , Landon Donovan said that Liga MX Clubs are significantly much better funded than MLS clubs in all the areas where it matters; so in that instance, assuming LD is on target,where is our Income advantage? We let Mexico outspend us?
3. In terms of experience, that one makes sense. The Europeans have the World Cup and the Euros, so they are on a two year cycle. At the very least this keeps their teams sharper than the US who are on a four year cycle. The World Cup is the only tournament that matters to the US. I am not as familiar with Copa America but I would imagine it keeps Brazil, Argentina and the other South American teams as sharp the Euros do the Europeans.
Three years plus is a long time to be building a team for a tournament.
I have recently been reading a lot of revisionist history about Gold Cup being as important to the US as the Euros are to the Europeans but this is BS. We only send our A team to it if winning it qualifies us for the Confederations Cup (which only matters because it is the best dress rehearsal tournament for the World Cup). Therefore, I will respect the Gold Cup as much as the USSF does.
The incorporation of Copa America and the Olympics and possibly the Confed Cup into the USMNT’s cycle this time around represent a significant upgrade. Perhaps that is one reason why JK may be keeping these veterans around a little longer than SBI people want them kept around.
My hope is that the increased competitive atmosphere will allow JK to field a much more coherent, battle tested unit in 2018.
MLS is well on its way but I suspect people are being overly optimistic about when it will become a “top” league. And I think the USMNT can still do major damage before MLS reaches that status.
If you look at the US as a club team, all it ever does, competitively, is play short tournaments. Seven games total to win the World Cup. Short tournaments are basically playoffs and American sports fans all know anything can happen once you get into the playoffs.
GW, Denmark and Greece are the outliers. Germany put two teams in the champions league last year, and they just won a World Cup. Barca, was crushing it around 2010 when Spain won, and inter won champions league in 2006 when Italy won a World Cup.
Brasil club teams won six copa libertadores during a ten year span which saw brasil play in three finals.
Argentina club teams won ten copa libertadores during a twenty year period which saw Argentina play in three finals. And it was an argentine team that won the most recent copa libertadores, and which nation was in the finals?
Denmark won with a hot goalkeeper, and the event was held in neighboring Sweden, and it was peak times for Danish football. They had played in the third place game eight years earlier, and at the time, it was only eight teams in the event anyway, so the odds are more favorable.
Greece played great defense and had portugals number, a team which they got to beat twice in one tournament.
A top league is where it is at for success, especially a lasting success, that churns out talent, and an identity.
Dikran,
Outliers?
BFD.
You can turn up your nose at their success because it wasn’t stylistically quite up to the high standards a connoisseur like you demands, and you would not be alone, but I have no such inhibitions.
Who cares how they won? I certainly do not. Do you think the Danes or the Greeks will give back their trophies because their style was not pleasing to some? They won it didn’t they?
The Netherlands produces many more top flight players than either Denmark or Greece and, for the last forty plus years, are consistently a challenger for the World Cup but guess how many major tournaments they have actually won?
One, the 1988 European Championship, 2-0 with a wonder goal by Marco Van Basten. And the Russians had a left back named Rats, an all-time great name.
Usually, the Dutch are too busy stabbing each other in the back to bother with their opponents so the fact remains that Greece, Denmark and the Netherlands are tied for major honors won. Years from now no one will ask about how well their domestic leagues were doing at that point.
If I’m the USMNT manager my job is to get us as close to winning the World Cup as we can manage, as soon as possible. Unlike you, I don’t buy that the USMNT is incapable of doing serious damage in 2018 unless MLS is at a certain level.
MLS can lead, follow or get the f**k out of the way. In Brazil, Wondo scores that makeable shot and Belgium are dead and the US are in the quarters, flawed outlier squad though they may have been. It’s unlikely they beat Argentina but who knows?
I would be perfectly happy to be an outlier while doing serious damage at the 2018 World Cup.
“A top league is where it is at for success, especially a lasting success, that churns out talent, and an identity”
MLS has plenty of smart people with brains and money. They can take care of themselves. The USMNT needs them and they need the USMNT, whose success only raises the game’s visibility in this country. The USSF and MLS need each other. Both wear big boy pants and they will figure it out. In the meantime I expect the manager of the USMNT to do his best for his team.
gw,
excuse me, im a fan of the USA. ill take the win anyway we can get it. turn my nose up? what the F are you talking about?
did you know that the same year Holland won their one major senior tournament, psv just so happened to be club champions of Europe?
if the USA win in 2018, and they could, well my guess is that MLS is a top league, and we will probably have won two of the next three concACAF champions leagues, and one or two teams will have done damage in sud America.
If these things come to fruition, we will be in a stronger position, than if they don’t.
Dikran,
The fact that PSV had a nice season in 1988 is nice. I don’t think you can necessarily directly link that to the Dutch winning the 1988 European Championship, though I’m sure it did not hurt. If the Dutch players on PSV had not been at Eindhoven with Hiddink they would have been at Real Madrid, Barca , Milan or some other top Euro club.
The Dutch have been producing lots of good to great to all time world class players since the late 1960’s long before the 88 win. The ability of their clubs to find and develop players is one thing; the competitiveness of the teams in their league is another thing.
Over the years Holland have been to three World Cup finals, have a third and a fourth place finish, have been in three Euro semis since 1988 and in general are always a threat to win any competition they choose to enter, assuming they are not stabbing each other in the back.
So their player development system, their academy system, whatever you call it, has been consistently productive at a very high level for nearly half a century.
The Eredivisie itself has not been nearly as competitive. This is the league that all of SBI laughed at for letting Jozy score all those goals right about the same time that their national team was losing the 2010 World final 1-0 to Spain.
By SBI logic how can any league where Jozy excels be a top flight league?
By the way, my definition of a top flight league is one where the top World class players such as Messi. CR7, Lahm, Pirlo, Bale and so on are willing to spend the prime of their careers.
For example, let’s say Rubio develops into a monster, scores 41 goals for Utrecht, leads them to the Champions League and becomes the center of a tug of war between Real Madrid, Barca, Arsenal, Chelsea, you get the idea. And let’s say he spurns them all to sign with the Colorado Rapids.( I know allocation and all that but bear with me). Or say Gyau leads Dortmund back to respectability and they sell him to Bayern, like they always do, but the Dynamo hijack the deal and bring him to Houston at the insistence of their new manager, Jose Mourinho.
People like you and me don’t really identify who the top leagues are. The great players and the great managers do that by voting with their feet. When a scenario like what I described above happens on a regular basis then I’ll think about MLS as being a top flight league.
And while it helps to have a top flight league , you don’t absolutely need it to have a competitive national team. After all, the BPL is arguably the best league in the world and England suck. And Colombia and the Netherlands do not currently have top flight leagues but they do have top flight teams. And both countries have a long history of producing many talented players ; in their case if their domestic leagues aren’t doing so hot, the Colombian players just go to Brazil and Argentina and everywhere in Europe while the Dutch players go everywhere else in Europe.
Dude!!!
You make a number of very fair points (agree with most of them)… I wish I had more time today to continue.
I do think you, in particular, would really enjoy Soccernomics. Give it a read sometime if you have the chance. It isn’t perfect, but you are hitting on a lot of the same points. Good food for thought.
Cheers.
I honeslty dont know why MLS is worried about losing players to Europe…I see them losing more players to Mexico honestly.
Furthermore, I think its absurd that they feel that the USMNT staff should “promote” thier product. The USMNT Staff should not have their advice filtered by what the MLS execs want. Most of those guys have never played the game.
MLS should look at themselves and ask “What can we offer these playes to make these players stay with MLS”. The answer to that question can be Money, Guarenteed Playing Time etc. Point is, they need to offer something to make these players stay. Griping at JK makes them look and sound like an Ex-Girl friend.
I also believe that MLS’ byzantine rules and lack of personal freedom disuade players from signing.
MLS needs to remove their blind folds and realize that Soccer is a global sport. Like in all businesses, you must improve your product to have people buy it.. Griping does nothing.
USSF Technical Director should be working hand in hand with the league that oversees most his player pools development and not stepping on toes.
The interests of MLS and the USSF are not always aligned.
If MLS discovered that it would be cheaper, more effective and efficient to set up an academy in some Central American country and it produced a bunch of great players for their team they would do it in a heartbeat, even if it meant Real Americans were losing jobs and playing opportunities.
A certain amount of friction between the two organizations is normal and is to be expected..
Klinsi is right, MLS couldn’t properly train and develop a poodle.
If I kid want to learn to kick run and hack, stay in an MLS academy
Two points:
1. There is zero evidence so far that those who went to Europe at 16, 18 or 20 did better than those who started out in MLS. If anything, current numbers would back the opposite
2. No matter what you think of MLS, you definitely have to feel for the owners who are investing money in developing young players and then someone suggests to them not to sign with the team or the league. Imagine a corporation hiring a hundred paid interns (who mostly learn as oppose to produce) and then hearing that some third-party source instucts them all to join competitors after they are ready to contribute?!
It’s competition, for sure.
I understand that they don’t like it, but competition forces businesses to constantly strive.
Investing in developing young talent *should* be a valuable enterprise. Problem is, MLS ownership teams appear to have little idea of how to actually realize this value just yet. Some of this will come wth time– MLS has to modify the blueprint used by European clubs, which is not really practical (or even legal, in some cases) to ensure they aren’t just churning out free agents. But this can be done.
Right now, they have got to kick the habit of getting hosed on their transfer dealings with European clubs. There is no excuse for some of the terms that have found their way into these contracts. You can’t let things like that become a benchmark.
truth hurts 🙂 MLS needs mentors and klinsi is one of them. i can be one to 🙂
God I hate Sakewicz…and this is coming from a die-hard Union fan. Let the kids sign where they want. At the end of the day, the players should decide what they think is best for them.
My word that was a lovely move.
Europe also means a horde of young capable players competing for a limited number of places. It means an endless stream of coaches who come and go about as frequently as the no. 10 bus. It means clubs with managements of varying quality and finances of varying strength. More young players get lost in Europe than find good situations. Signing with a European club is a huge risk. Just ask Adu, Shea or any number of others. If Jurgen had sufficient pull with European clubs to guarantee US players real playing time, it might be worth listening to him. I doubt that he has that much clout.
This is where the cheap valuations and ill-advised transfers can be really damaging. Jozy might only have 2 league goals in 65+ EPL matches, but it also begs the question “how did a forward who doesn’t score get so many games?” The answer (at least in part) is that he was expensive…. at least for Sunderland. Internal pressure to justify financial decisions is a far better guarantee of minutes than a phone call from Jurgen.
Cheap players have no advocates in the organization. Yedlin has a big mountain to climb at a place like Spurs, who aren’t particularly struggling for transfer cash and are always drafting in new competition. Nobody is getting fired at a big European club because a $3.5 million American didn’t establish himself as the starter.
Cry me a river.
Look at Mexico
How many Mexican players have been overpaid and under-challenged in their comfortable domestic league? It stunted the growth of the national team. Only in the last generation do they have a number of players trying to follow in Hugo’s footsteps.
Bradley, Dempsey, and Donovan made great comfortable decisions for themselves and their families. Klinsmann doesn’t want any of his guys too comfortable, he wants them to be constantly striving.
The American player owes Garber’s cartel absolutely zero obligation
“The American player owes Garber’s cartel absolutely zero obligation”
Only if their club team took no financial/coaching assistance from MLS, which is of course very few of them. If an MLS team is involved at the local club level, it not benevolence, it is a combination of marketing and vesting rights.
Klinsi has no obligation to the MLS, other their voting interest at USSF who pays him. However, MLS has not obligation to Klinsi to not schedule games on international breaks, or release “injured” players, release players for non senior team call ups or deal with him at all. The EPL hardly deals well with the various national team coaches, and players are always “too hurt” after consulting with their manager. I think that Klinsi has antagonized MLS unnecessarily, and it is going to come back to bite him.
While I don’t think any of this is “staged” or any such nonsense, I think now is a great time for our FA and League to appear completely separate. There is a battle brewing between the USSF and FIFA. While Gulati has done a great job of giving Blatter nothing to work with, Blatter might very well come after MLS if he thinks he can get leverage (for example, by challenging the legitmacy of league ownership rights in player contracts). He used to pick on England using this kind of strategy and I wouldn’t put anything past the guy.
But at some point the animosity will become a problem if the tone continues on this path. There is mutual value to be had.
Or if he threatens to de-certify MLS as D1 in a closed pyramid.
He’s made statements about pro/rel before
I think both segments have good points in their own respect, but I also have great disdain for MLS/MLS ownership believing it must possess the ability to control the message from the National Team manager and any philosophy he may have, if it differs from their own.
In fact, since they referenced agents: If I’m an agent, MLS and their heavy handed bullying, controlling nature and obscure system would be enough to make me look elsewhere for my client. I haven’t even brought up the salary issue, either.
If JK’s words are enough to rattle the foundation of a league, perhaps the league should look at itself and determine what flaws still exist to dissuade players from leaving. Spoiler Alert: JK isn’t the problem. After all, this is a league hellbent on parity. If players want better competition, they have the professional freedom to do so. That is a good thing.
I’m glad MLS has designed a new logo, but it needs to embrace it’s mumbo-jumbo about what the crest means and actually evolve into the next phase.
Complain all you want about MLS and its imperfections but MLS has done far, far more for US soccer and the National team than JK could ever do. Right now he is still a big name with an unimpressive coaching record who is riding the rising tide.
Highest winning percentage of any USMNT manager in history.
+1
Sure he does. But it could be argued that was going to happen. US soccer is light years ahead of 1996 era.
I am not a hater, but he is turning me into one. He is not visiting the MLS academies ? Anything else we should know ? I am starting to think the answer might be a big YES.
Sure he does.
Yes, he does.
But it could be argued that was going to happen.
Or it could be argued he was fighting a losing battle considering our best player (according to people who pile on JK each chance they get) was vacationing in Cambodia and we can count on about two fingers the amount of times Dempsey and Donovan were made available at the same time, on the same pitch.
You guys are hilarious. There’s always a but when your narrative fails.
what was my narrative ?
I didn’t have one.
I think he has done a good job. I think that whoever was in charge probably would have done the same.
US soccer is advancing quickly. Very quickly.
“I think that whoever was in charge probably would have done the same”
“probably” is not the same as actually doing it.
Porter was “probably” going to qualify his vastly superior Under 23 squad for the Olympics wasn’t he?
You saw how that went.
So? I mean, really? So what? As I said, he is riding a rising tide. He got less out of the US pool than he should have. Are you really going to claim that there is some step forward in the quality of our play or the tactics that he is responsible for? The 2014 looked a heck of a lot more like 1994 than it did like 2010 (or better yet 2009) and it is far, far behind 2002. And yes, it was great to win in Mexico and Italy, but those games were hardly a step beyond how we have performed in the past.. And, least we forget, until snow in Denver and crappy Jamaican marking, we were in serious danger of winding up in that 4th place game. But if you think winning some friendlies offsets all that, go right ahead.
So? I mean, really? So what?
So…the whole “unimpressive coaching record” narrative agenda is so inaccurate and I can provide one fact, not opinion, to debunk it.
So, yea.
Here’s a fact: Bob Bradley’s winning percentage in games that count (Gold Cup, Confed Cup, World Cup and Qualifying) is higher than JK’s.
You have to give equal weight to friendlies if you think JKs higher overall percentage actually means anything.
Appreciate you doing the research and I respect your counterpoint/response. However, your agenda to paint JK as nothing more than a big-name with an unimpressive record misses the mark by a wide margin.
For the record: I enjoyed BB as a manager and think they’ve both done an exceptional job with different demands.
Bob Bradley was not really fired for bad results, or because Gulati felt he wasn’t getting enough out of our limited talent pool. Bob did fine– maybe even inconveniently well.
But winning percentage in the short run was not what Gulati paid the big bucks to Klinsmann for. He probably won’t be fired for results at all, barring a spectacular nosedive. He wants to revamp our development system, and wanted somebody with previous expertise to do it. He has been fairly candid in this regard (not that you have to like it or agree)
The development overhauls that Germany, Spain, and Belgium undertook took about a decade to yield material results at the senior level. Might want to pull up a chair,.
I almost wonder if that Confederations cup final and beating Spain almost set the bar up too high for Bradley.
I think most people like and appreciate Bradley. He has been fired twice for reasons probably not merited by results. But coaching tenures don’t last these days… his run with the USMNT was really quite long by most standards.
Mr Quakeland,
BB handed over a team in serious need of a rebuild. The back four was in shambles, the dynamic duo of Dempsey and Donovan were both aging and with uncertain futures, and they had just been humiliated in an embarrassing massacre in the 2011 Gold Cup final.
If you doubt that just read any number of SBI articles and posts on the topic just prior to JK’s hiring.
You take for granted that just because there were a lot of promising new players ( Juan Agudelo, Teal Bunbury, Mix Diskerud, Eric Lichaj, Stu Holden (coming back from injury) on the horizon that anyone could have molded those players into the team that did quite well in a very tough World Cup in Brazil.
Unlike you I don’t think past performance is any guarantee of future results especially in a tournament as difficult as the World Cup. Ask Italy or Spain or Uruguay or England. You act as if getting out of any World Cup Group let alone one as difficult as the US had, should have been taken for granted just because we did it in 2006 and 2010. You take this as an easy thing to do. Why, because you paid JK 2.5 million? Putin paid Capello 11 million and that got Russia 2 draws and a loss and third place in his Group.
Okay, with the deepest pool in USMNT history. I actually dont have a problem with the coach. I have a problem with the USSF technical director, it just sucks that they are one in the same. Maybe that needs to change which doesnt mean Jurgen’s ideals still cant be heard but a different man who carries more respect as an AMERICAN can carry far more clout than a German masquerading as an American.
I don’t think his record is unimpressive but I don’t think it’s a huge improvement from Arena or Bradley.
Another factor that is often overlooked is that JK is also technical director of USSF in addition to his role as national team coach. Part of his job as technical director is to work with MLS Academies on player development because they are an important part of our player development system.
Another factor that is often overlooked is that JK is also technical director of USSF in addition to his role as national team coach.
I think this deserves more insight and discussion, you’re absolutely right. Admittedly, I have zero idea what it means: Is it a ceremonious title or does it have applicable actions within the system.
However, just because his philosophy is different, doesn’t mean it’s wrong or harmful. I’m not stating that’s what you’re saying: I am stating people suggesting that have already made up their mind on anything JK-related.
“I am stating people suggesting that have already made up their mind on anything JK-related.”
that is you in my book, Klinsi’s Alan Dershowitz 😉
Clearly my minor in math in college was a waste of time.
(WC semifinal + WC round of 16) = unimpressive coaching record
Thanks for clearing that up for me,
You misread. Stick to your math minor.
Owners are upset because academies that identify American players are unable to profit from selling them or watching them grow on an MLS first team. MLS needs players like Yedlin, Gil, Adu, Jozy, & Bradley to start here in order to build the league. If all of the prospects went to Europe basically for free when they are 14 or 15, MLS gets nothing and is unable to grow. Even though I want more of our players playing in Europe, MLS can develop players too needs talent to grow as a league.
Regardless of where you come out on the debate, what should concern JK is the simple fact of pushback. US coaches at age groups and senior teams rely on MLS for players. Only for certain senior games is a call up mandatory. When I hear this kind of pushback I fear that courtesies and ease of access could be reduced.
They can’t go abroad before 18 unless they’re dual citizens per FIFA rules. This should promote domestic development but you have to have the club infrastructure to exploit the local monopoly.
MLS is growing, and is able to support more high level players than ever before, but if anyone is still laboring under the delusion that this is the best place for the elite level youth to develop into elite professionals, …
Aside from dumping an incredible amount of money into the league specifically earmarked for academy development, I’m not sure how much more we can be doing to progress our level of youth development. The only thing we need to do is be patient, let the 5 or so players from each age group go to greener pastures to continue their development, and continue to increase the volume of the youth player pool. When we can produce good MLS level players for a dime-a-dozen, we won’t have to worry about letting the elite players leaving.
The issues that MLS owners have with JK might have more credence if MLS did not have such a tight salary cap or DP limits, or if MLS helped develop a true on-field superstar for a true top club. “Europe” is, at least, four world-class first division leagues, a number of top flights just behind them, and a bunch of other strong teams scattered in somewhat lesser leagues, many of which are better than MLS in quality and all of whom pay more that MLS. Young American talent who want to find a well-paying job playing soccer (particularly those with European passports) will, more often than not, have a much easier time of trying to find a spot in Europe’s cornucopia of opportunity than they will here amongst twenty-odd cap-restricted MLS teams. If MLS could offer Europe-type wages to its full rosters, then taking the chance on staying may not prove so risky. As it stands, however, JK is almost certainly right to encourage better young talent to try to find a place in Europe. And MLS is only encouraging that behavior by overpaying American internationals who didn’t quite make it there or are past their prime to come home. If MLS has a “saftey school” attitude towards US talent, who can blame young players for noticing that?
So JK was doing this to get the players to make more money ?
Gotta say I disagree with that very bizzarre opinion.
The upside of Europe includes more and better development opportunities and more money with it, especially at a younger age. Its part of the same equation.
..and more professional freedom. Something no player should undervalue.
“Europe” encompasses a lot of clubs playing in a lot of countries at a lot of different levels. What you’re saying if true for many clubs in Europe but not all.
I would say some clubs in Europe not many,
Wow, who wants to have to choose between Jurgen or the MLS owners? Surely a need for another option here. Jurgen talks a lot and every once in a while, some of it makes sense, sort of. Any young player who pays attention to him does it at his own risk. The MLS owners, on the other hand, are a bunch of exploitive cheap skates, who could help the men’s national team by raising salaries across the board, stop paying overage foreigners outrageous sums and further limiting the number of players not eligible for the USMNT, but who probably won’t.
If there is a quick answer to the development question it has to do with playing time. There is no point is signing for a club where you are going to be stuck on the bench, or on the reserves or on loan somewhere else. You learn only while you are playing. I suspect for most players that means MLS in the short term, but as Jurgen the Master has revealed to us, every case is different.
So basically you agree with what he said but because he cut Landon Donovan you have to go on a circuitous JK bashing tirade to kind of admit it?
Saying every case is different is just a step up from clearing your throat. I suspect that I agree with Jurgen about a variety of things: soccer balls are round; each team fields 11 players and so on, but that doesn’t make him any less of a narcissistic gasbag. Leaving Donovan off the team was stupid, but hardly Jurgen’s only crime. His pressure on Dempsey to leave Fulham was moronic. The playing opportunities he wasted on players who were never going to play in the WC, either because of age or lack of suitability were amazingly numerous…and so on.
Jurgen has made a few mistakes. He has also done a lot of things right. Show me a legendary manager and I will name multiple embarrassing transfers, tactical blunders, and misfires that they vomited out. It doesn’t make them okay, but they are scarcely misdemeanors and hardly uncommon, particularly during a growth period.
I think the biggest flaw in his encouragement of young players to go to Europe is not giving them more specific and targeted advice. The transfer market can be a predatory place and MLS clubs have made us look like amateurs on several occasions (Seattle should be banned from talking to Spurs until they get some better information on market conventions). It is not one-size-fits-all in Europe and some expensive mistakes have been made that JK probably has his fingerprints on (although there are many in that boat)
It looks like he and the USSF are coming around to this now and looking for ways to give more comprensive support here. Another lesson learned
No coach is perfect and “learning on the job” has become a crime in this country. I suppose I’d sympathize more if we were having bad results, but that hasn’t really happened.
Learning on the job is something you do at Preston North End.
Moyes’s first team…and he still holds the record for wins adjusted to games played.
I think you may be overestimating the sexiness of CONCACAF coaching jobs. It is a perceived wilderness with low revenues/pay and considerable travel obligations. The top UEFA coaches are not blowing up Sunil’s phone.
Our choices are basically Americans or a European who has burned out his demand at top European jobs (see Mexico’s comedy experiment with Sven).
JK was hired to rehaul our development practices, such as the one he helped implement in Germany (as well as those implemented successfully by Belgium and Spain). These are nice precedents but there is no roadmap. Mistakes will be made but turning petty mistakes into capital offenses is a waste of the investment, particularly when they aren’t even reflected in results.
As it happens, the German team got better because the new arrivals from East Germany convinced the newly unified German FA to adopt the methods East Germany used to develop young players.
Mr Woodville,
Funny, I thought West Germany was doing okay before unification.
Are you talking about Yedlin’s sale price to Tottenham. Seattle was facilitating what Yedlin’s people thought was the best location for him. Plus they got to keep him for a while by discounting him some. You think Seattle needs the money? Yeah right, I think that is what Adrian’s frustration comes from is because we have proven that we will help a young talented kid like Yedlin grow into a BPL desirable player and obviously Jurgen has been in Morrs’ ear….not like Morris father and Adrian arent on a first name basis with Morris father being a club employee and a long time one at that (club doctor). Who is to say that Morris father didnt like the way he was pushing Jordan to go overseas? Adrian really isnt an over zealous, spout off type of guy. Morris can learn just as much from Seattle as he can not playing for a club that isnt invested like Seattle is, in his development. Furthermore, there are only so many teams in Europe (especially outside the big 4) that have two attackers that he can learn from like Dempsey and Martins. Morris is in good hands in Seattle, if he so chooses. Better than being another piece thrown at the wall hoping he sticks at Bumf’ington FC in England’s 2nd or 3rd division.
The sale price for Yedlin can be disputed– I think it’s low but I can let that go. But talk of “needing the money” is irrelevant. Looking like a chump will get you treated like a chump. It’s never good to be the sucker at the table, no matter how much money you have to throw away.
More to the point, it’s the one-sided terms that reek of amateurism. Spurs ditched all the risk/liability on Seattle…. I can think of no precedent for this structure, which isn’t actually a transfer (Yedlin is still registered with FIFA as a Sounders player) so much as a cheap option.. They should be paying Seattle a premium for this, not a discount, since:
1) The fee was not paid in cash upfront. This is standard for int’l transfers. It is “paid incrementally” as though Spurs need some sort of layaway plan. But it sure helps in the case of….
2) Yedlin suffers a catastrophic injury. Spurs are totally off the hook in this case. Again, amateurish. This should have been a sale and loan-back..
I don’t know who “Yedlin’s people” are but they shouldn’t be driving the bus, anyway. MLS owners have tremendous power over players compared to other leagues. They could easily have told the teenage kid to go pound sand while the procured a better deal.
I don’t know much about the Morris situation, but I hope they learn something and do better (or at least something the rest of the market wouldn’t laugh at)
JK is like a bad soccer blog commentor. He has never visited the Philly academy ? Which other ones has he not visited ?
Just about to drop off the Klinsmann wagon. It isn’t going that fast with him on the brakes.
Kids should listen to him though. Europe is always better. Like a Euro snob commentor. Next thing you know he will start talking about Pro/Rel….
And what’s so remarkable about Philly academy that merits a visit from Klinsmann? If MLS truly cared about youth development they would have continued to finance Chivas USA’s academy, which sent 7 players at the U14 national team camp. As of today, these kids are completely abandoned by the MLS, but the president of the defunct club club lands on his feet by being offered a newly created position with the USSF, where he would be telling young players to sign professional contracts with MLS instead of going to Europe.
One, it appears he is telling people to go elsewhere. How is he coming to that conclusion ? Like I said he is a bad soccer blog commentor, with no more knowledge, but all the conviction. Euro is better.
Two, he is the USSF technical director. Maybe you didn’t know that….but he does and there really are no excuses for him in that regard.
I’m curious as a fellow blogger: Have you visited their academy to sing their praises? If so, can you please provide glowing details of the operation, overall system and probability of success?
+1, lol
I have been to it, and I have been to some European academies/facilities. Philly’s youth setup is on par with very high level European academies. You name it, they have it.
In any case, Klinsmann owes it to his employers to at least make a token appearance at every single MLS youth academy considering their importance to the development of the American talent pool.
word
reply Old School? something tart and condescending perhaps? as if you actually add value?
So if they are on par in terms of facilities, then what ingredient is missing that prevents them from producing world class players? I think it comes to coaching.
You assume that technical director’s job is to tour all youth academies. There are 88 USDA clubs, including Philadelphia Union, which makes expectations to visit every single one of them unrealistic. Klismann has visited these clubs, but not all. By the way, his son plays for one of them so he is well aware about the level of youth coaching here. And Klinsmann has both played and coached in Europe at the highest level so it is naïve to suggest that he does not know how they train in Europe. There is a big gap between MLS set up and European clubs and Klinsi knows it. MLS brass is in denial.
Please go into details about the gaps. Be specfic.
See what I mean Old School ? You are completely on the wrong side with your comment. My point is people are making judgements without knowing the facts…and the Philly guys says that is Jurgen doing that.
Your point is that you agree with me and I am one of them ? Great. I agree…another guy that agrees with you throws out that Europe is better. LOL.
Money… Money is the big differnce. You get into a European Academy, you aren’t paying training, league, travel and coaches travel fees. I can’t speak for the Philly Union Academy but I know the training cost for our local academy is $5000 before league/tournament fees and travel costs. Most academies here are pay to play. My son isn’t old enough for the academy and his soccer training fee alone is $2500 a year. We spend an additional $500 for a conditioning trainer, $1500 in league and tounament fees and about $2000 for travel. Not to mention needing banker’s hours to get to traing that starts at 4:30 and is 45 minute away.
Eurosnob – I think you are confusing two separate types of clubs as the same when you lump MLS academies in with the USDA “academy” system.
don lamb, MLS academies are part of the DA system, i.e., play in the same leagues as other development academy clubs. For example, Philadelphia Union’s U17 team is in the fourth place in their division, right behind PDA, which is not an MLS academy.
That does not mean they are the same thing.
Should we really believe anything Nick from Philly says? has anyone ever been given a reason to believe that he’s not a jackass?
Um Chivas academy is continuing from all the reports I saw (Sport Illustrated, etc)
For a year, then it will disband with the hopes that LAFC will reform one.
Why wouldn’t they? It’s a no brainer.
Does philly even have their own first-team training ground?
Without knowing more than what is in this article, it’s hard for an outside observer to know whop is right here. Be that as it may, Klinsmann’s response is the proper one; every case is individual and not one answer applies to all players. The benefit of European soccer is likely a bigger paycheck and more exposure worldwide. If MLS would get off their wallets and raise the stupidly low salary cap, then the first problem could be obviated. If they are losing good young players to Europe, they are mostly likely largely at fault. Heck, they have even been losing good young players to Mexico
I have to agree with you. There’s a real disconnect when expansion teams are paying 100M+ cash directly to MLS and yet the league just “can’t afford” to pay a median salary of what $65,000/yr? (I don’t know what the actual number is.) And it’s not just the players and fans that are going to be left frustrated now that teams like NYCFC and LAFC have deep pockets and yet are totally hamstrung, having the ability to only 3-4 high quality (i.e. “designated”) players. This year’s CBA could be a knock down, drag out that could easily cancel the whole 2015 season if the league doesn’t raise the salary cap exponentially.
So JK was just looking out for the kids pocketbooks ?
The next bargaining agreement is going to be quite the fight. The cap needs to go up at least 3-4 times what it is now. And maybe for only 3-5 years, the league is growing much more rapidly now and even a 3-4x increase will look small in a few years. Take a look at this chart that’s been circulating:
http://screamer.deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283
MLS is 22nd in AVERAGE salary. Average is skewed greatly when the top 5-10 DP’s probably account for something like 25% of MLS salaries, the average salary of everyone else has to be pretty terrible. The big part is that in income per club, MLS is 12th in annual income per club. So something isn’t adding up between the old agreement and new revenues. I’m sure some of that extra income is going into development and USL Pro second teams and such, but salaries and cap have to go way up soon.
Wont even go close to that. It was a parity league and would still like to be. So unless they figure out a way for Americans to care about soccer ( and I don’t mean the casual Euro watchers )…no way it will go up that much.
I think the players will probably get a nice increase, but the MLS strategy is a different bet from most any other team on this list.
The single biggest differntiating strategy of MLS compared to other, more established leagues is the belief that growth will be more sustainable and successful in the long run if the majority (if not all) of the teams are profitable (parity is a first cousin of this philosophy).
Much as you can argue that DP’s skew average wages, remember that the wage skew between the “haves” and “have nots” in any top European League is enormous and ever-widening (throw in transfer fees and it’s even worse). And unlike the DP and salary cap rules, this disparity is probably irreversible now. Most European teams lose money and have utterly abandoned the idea of winning the league.
This seems like a pretty flawed model to me, particularly for a fledgling league like MLS, where you can’t count on fans to stick around to support a bankrupt loser in an emerging sport– 100 yr old European clubs can stay afloat like this. Nobody’s great grandfather was a Galaxy fan… the league and its teams won’t survive famine.
Why not look to the NFL for a more suitable and sustainable precedent? It’s is far and away the world’s most successful sports league, in spite of being heavily concentrated in only one country Every team makes money, and every fan can envision a day they win the Super Bowl within a fairly short window. Nobody likes slow growth, but you have to find ways to succeed where others will fail, and a profit-focused model is unique and consistent with what has worked here.
What this dude said. 😉
Do we WANT to be Europe? We see Europe as amazing…I see it as awful. I see 3-4 genuinely elite teams in England, 2-3 in Italy, 2 in France (and one of them is actually in Monaco and plays in front of 8,000 fans), 2 in Spain (and one of them is financed by the Spanish government), 1 in Germany…it goes on and on.
The top teams all have much the same model. They spend insanely, they buy all the best players in their home countries and then the best ones from their neighbors, and they play in leagues with absolutely no parity. They’re like stacked Little League teams, put together by those egomaniacal dad-coaches everybody else hates.
How is that fun, for the fans? How is that sustainable, over the long term?
Ali Dia, excellent post. some refuse to understand these things. our development academies are just starting. for the long run their development is key to US soccer but perhaps not for Klinsi’s team in the here and now.
it is interesting that Klinsi has not visited to see what’s actually going on
and I’ve not heard him say the below before–that’s what I’ve been saying since he took ove–as the chorus, led by him, has said the opposite:
“You have to look at every situation individually and help the player to determine what is best for himself,” Klinsmann said. “There are a lot of parts to the picture, things like the player’s ability, what his support structure is like, his past experiences, and his mentality and goals. Some kids would benefit from the environment in Europe, while others are best suited to continue their growth in MLS. There’s no one right answer that applies to all players, and each player’s circumstances change over time.”
+1 Yes I think Klinsi is learning a few lessons here, and that’s a good thing. When I think of some of the 17-18 year olds I knew at that age (especially some of the athletes), I think at least half of these kids were nowhere near ready psychologically ready to do take on something like moving to a foreign country to compete for a professional career. But some certainly were (one did– John Thorrington, who Man U brought over). This will be true in the long-run, as well. It will never be 100% MLS or 100% Euro.
Raise the cap too much and the player salaries and all of sudden you are going to be pricing out American players by the boatload. All of sudden you will League One players, Championship players wanna be coming over in droves since they can get “like” money to what they get at home without the media grind of a relegation battle and all of that. Many more BWP’s will be coming. Sure that may be good for the leagues playing styles and level of play but it also hurts the average American player. Maybe you price out the next Lee Nguyen or Chris Wondolowski. Its a double edged sword and it has to be done carefully. Players deserve more, no doubt and in the case of the league minimum…quite a bit more. Just it could backfire on the American players in this league
Don’t forget there are already limited spots league wide for international players. Unless the league finds ways to get players green cards much, much faster there will always be a market for US born players when total internationals allowed in the league is limited.
The players’ primary goal in the 2010 CBA was to see the league minimum become a living wage (before that some players were making $15,000/yr!), which just goes to show how far the league has come in a very short time. Thankfully, Donovan and the Players’ Union held their ground and were successful. The goal for the 2015 CBA should be not only a bump in the league minimum but of utmost importance, the ability of MLS teams to compete with Liga MX teams in CONCACAF Champions League. In order to have MLS and Liga MX teams on a level playing field someone needs to calculate the average payroll of Liga MX teams and then insist that MLS raises its salary cap to match it. The journey to becoming a top 10 league begins with the ability to challenge for the CCL. I am probably not the only MLS fan who gave up and stopped watching/attending CCL games years ago because MLS teams have zero hope of winning it.
Meh. So you want a bunch of teams to start taking financial losses so that we can win a wildly unpopular tournament that almost nobody watches or takes seriously.
What’s the point of paying more for the players, when many of the good ones don’t even play in this tournament? Exactly who is the audience we are trying to impress with this? I promise you Europe does not care, and the non-soccer watching American public cares even less.
The Donovan/Beckham Galaxy teams hardly had “zero hope” of winning– they just didn’t use Donovan or Beckham. Why bother? Let Jack McBean run around in Salvadorean rain for 90 mins in front of 500 people.
If we can find our way into the Libertadores or Sudamericana, maybe this has merit. But I can’t think of a single player, coach, or investor who would refuse to associate themselves with MLS because they haven’t yet won this horrible thing. Money down the drain.
I point out winning the CCL as simply the possible upside that comes along with matching the Liga MX average team salary. I agree that CCL will probably not generate much interest here any time soon. It’s just that MLS can’t keep paying one player 8M and three of his fellow starters 50k each and hope to have an on-field product that can compete with Liga MX teams. I’m not advocating ending the DP rule–sky’s the (salary) limit right!–it’s just that because Liga MX salaries are higher overall it translates to a better product on the field.
Right. Because in addition to the ability to control player movement and salaries that their cartel status gives them, the owners need the exclusive right to whisper in the ears of their academy players about where they should sign (and put the team in place for a future transfer fee).
With respect to Mr. Sakiewicz’s comments, I wonder how many players his club’s academy produced that are playing for European clubs?
All due respect, but like some of our players did better by Traffic or their foreign destinations? Adu’s career-killing Benfica loans year after year? Agudelo’s career-crippling obsession? The years Garza spent in the wilderness? Shea being bounced around England?
The common denominator with MLS is that a contract binds you someplace, and you should pick wisely where you contract. You can be bound to a foreign owner just as foolishly.
I think the better point would be MLS has a half cooked development process, and a veteran emphasis. Coaches are concerned with first team level players and see kids as a risk. The pipeline to the first team is not well built. I’m actually with JK on that point, some players benefit, some disappear.
But I think JK and you finesse that the same thing happens in Europe. The corollary to, you may be stuck in a contract, is only x% of people signing pro deals really take off.
Especially with the new collective bargaining agreement up for review, there’s a real obvious fix the league can implement if they’re serious about keeping their young guys: instead of adding another DP slot, they should instead add a number of “homegrown exception” slots.
Make the number, say, $100K. Anything past that, a team can pay without a hit to their cap. Especially with these Gen Adidas contracts dwindling, teams need a way to keep the top young players at home without breaking the cap – and taking a huge risk if the kid doesn’t pan out. But with any kid who qualifies through the homegrown rules, they should have the power to add sweeteners without distorting the cap. This would encourage teams to invest even more heavily in their academies…and know they can then sign these kids without a great deal of risk.
In most cases, this wouldn’t be a $500K sweetener. But you take some 17-year-old, sign him to a homegrown contract, and know you’ve got the ability to add, say, an additional $75K signing bonus to his $100K base without taking money away from your veteran players or messing with the salary cap, and it’d make all the difference in the world to a lot of these kids when deciding whether they’re going to sign at home or abroad.
Rather than declare war on Klinsmann, MLS owners just need to decide they’re going to make it financially viable to keep their top young players. Especially with the CBA up for renegotiation, now’s the perfect time to do that.