By CAITLIN MURRAY
Toronto FC fans will have to wait for an official announcement heralding striker Jozy Altidore’s arrival, but new reports reveal how the deal was done — and just how close the New York Red Bulls got to Altidore.
By Wednesday, with Toronto FC, Major League Soccer, and Sunderland already agreeing to terms to bring Altidore from the English Premier League side to Toronto in exchange for Jermain Defoe, the New York Red Bulls continued to push to move to the top of MLS’s allocation order, TSN has reported.
Although MLS has made exceptions in the past, most notably with Clint Dempsey, MLS insisted Altidore must go through the allocation order, even as MLS reportedly preferred Altidore land in New York and reunite with his former club.
The Red Bulls offered Toronto FC a cash settlement of around $7.5 million, but TFC was not interested in any money — they only wanted Altidore, the report said. The Red Bulls also wanted the Montreal Impact’s top allocation spot, which the Impact appear to have held onto.
Altidore will join Toronto FC on a four-year contract, TSN reported.
Toronto sat sixth in the allocation order behind the Impact, the San Jose Earthquakes, the Colorado Rapids, the Chicago Fire and Houston Dynamo, none of which were interested in Altidore at his asking price, which ESPN reported to be as much as $6 million.
But Toronto FC will still reportedly get a sum of cash. Sunderland will send an unspecified but “significant” amount of cash to both Toronto and MLS as part of the deal to acquire Defoe, according to ESPN. The sum will take into account what the clubs paid for Altidore and Defoe and how much they are perceived to be worth now.
Toronto had paid a reported $10 million transfer fee for Defoe almost exactly a year ago to bring him from Tottenham and Defoe remains valuable, having had a somewhat productive time in TFC, scoring 11 goals in 19 games. Altidore was worth $10 million in 2013, when Sunderland paid that much to buy him from AZ Alkmaar, but Altidore has struggled badly in the Premier League.
Altidore may be more valuable in MLS, where American fans will know the U.S. Men’s National Team striker, but Defoe clearly has more value internationally right now.
These reports, however, are contradicted by a report Thursday from the Sunderland Echo, which calls the exchange a straight swap of strikers with no money involved.
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What do you think of the reports surrounding the Altidore/Defoe swap? Did you expect TFC to receive cash plus Altidore for Defoe? Do you see Altidore fitting in with TFC?
Share your thoughts below.
“Although MLS has made exceptions in the past, most notably with Clint Dempsey, MLS insisted Altidore must go through the allocation order….”
File this under: All’s well that ends well?
MLS did some serious MLS-ing to get Dempsey, but will we look back and say that signing Dempsey opened the door for all these other USMNT players/stars to sign too? We’ll see where this goes; i.e., if the USMNT players get spread out around the league.
Glad he’s gone on to Toronto. Thank God I won’t have to waste any more time watching Sunderland. I don’t know how many hours I sat and watched that dreadful team in the hopes that Jozy would play or score.
Not being forced to play in the style that Gus Poyet puts out there may ge the best medicine for him. I am not excusing Jozy for being sub par in the EPL, but most of us watched his games. How many times did you see Jozy make a near post run. Or how often did he work across the back line looking for a through ball? We never saw any one or two touch play in the final 3rd. It was always check to the ball, fade to the far post, or when the forwards get tired on not seeing the ball, break out wide to the flanks. This was true for all tneir forwards. Poyet is a death knoll to all strikers statistics. It has been true at Sunderland, and from what i have read in more than a few different articles it was true in his last job Brighton and Hove as well.
Jozy seems much more lively in JK’s set up. What he is asked to do may be as big a factor than the horrible midfield at Sunderland.
i agree with your remarks about Poyet’s style but I watched 90% of Sunderland games and Jozy definitely made those runs, over time he made them less and less because Sunderland mids rarely played those balls. Only Borini and Giac (italian players with great vision) played those balls. Sunderland always looked for a direct pass or a (terrible) cross; and this is regardless of which striker played. to repeat from above:
Last season Sunderland’s forwards scored a total of 16 league goals (Borini 7, Wickham 5, Fletcher 3, Jozy 1). Their Midfield scored 19…. again, Sunderland’s forwards scored less than once every other game…… as a group. people blame jozy because was starting a good amount……
This season, over half way through, Sunderlands fwds have 6 goals (on pace for a total of 11) and their mids have 11 (on pace for 21) .
So regardless of people’s feeling’s of Jozy being “terrible”, Sunderland does not feed their strikers proper service….. those are just facts. Just because Jozy supporters bring that point up doesn’t mean it’s rose-tinted viewing.
So RBNY were willing to pay Toronto $7.5 million to get Jozy but were unable to get a deal done to trade up into the 5 spots ahead of Toronto in the allocation order. Why not pay one of those teams a few million to move up. I call BS. Jozy didn’t go through the allocation. He was given to Toronto because they were willing to trade Defoe.
But shouldn’t they get to keep Jozy?
I mean they paid $10 Million for the player that was traded to get Jozy.
I don’t get to trade in your car for me a new car and me tell you how much I’m gonna pay for your car after the deal.
Hes not very good in any phase of the game. Maybe worth a shot in fantasy soccer.
If Jozy goes to TFC, who do you think will the most goals in MLS next year?
Jozy
Wondo
Wright-Phillips
Dwyer
Nguyen
Martins
Zardes
Dempsey
Keane
Kaka
others?
What about Villa?
Last I heard Villa was staying at Barcelona.
Last I heard, you have no idea what team David Villa last played for.
HAHAHAHAH +1
Jozy.
As I said, he’ll have Gilberto to combine with, and Michael Bradley to feed him. I think Jozy scores 20+ goals if he stays healthy.
lionard pajoy, obvs
from a pure attack standpoint, I’d say Martins: nothing much has changed there, so I’d see him still posting big numbers. However, Seattle have a lot of work to fix its back line, and since solid defense determines to some extent how much offense you can mount, I just don’t know how much time Martins will have on the ball.
I’m ok with Jozy’s move to TFC, and Dempsey and Bradley last year. It’s obviously great for the league to pay good money for its USMNT talent. I’m not as bothered by this trend of USMNT players returning to MLS
My only concern is this: Would any of teams in the top European leagues ever make a bid to bring them back? Or is this decision to return to ML basically the death knell of playing in Europe? With Dempsey, obviously he’s on the wrong side of 30. But what about Bradley and Jozy (and Besler and Gonzo to a lesser extent)? By signing these big contracts in MLS, have they also signed away any realistic hope to play in Europe in the future? I suppose that a good showing in WC2018 would improve one’s fortunes.
MLS is going to ask waaaay to much money for them and nobody in Europe is going to pay them what they’re making at home so, yeah, their Europe careers are over.
Offseason loans to any BPL teams that are struggling or possibly any bigger clubs in the Championship.
Donovan to Everton and Dempsey to Fulham are good examples.
TheFrenchOne,
Unless they are willing to take pay cuts, their European careers are probably over.
For example, Jozy will be 29 at the end of his deal and even if he breaks every MLS scoring record worth breaking between now and then the European clubs will be able to find a younger, cheaper and just as talented if not more so striker with more sell on value.
I used to call it the Freddy Adu corollary. In his case it was younger, cheaper, more professional, more coachable, more talented players.
Of course , if Jozy is willing to take a oay cut all bets are off .
The other avenue is if Jozy has a fantastic Copa America , Confederations Cup and World Cup.
but contracts are usually not played out fully, hence the current move for both defoe and jozy. So let’s go best case scenario-ish; Jozy plays two seasons for TFC in MLS, breaks single season scoring record both seasons, shows that he just didn’t fit with Sunderland, he could possibly attract another Euro team, any league, that would want a 27 year old striker with confidence. It would just come down to if the team was a good fit. but that’s best case scenario. but it is definitely possible that he moves to another league in a couple years.
Like most things in sport it will come down to performance and money.
NooooooOOOoooooooOOO000OOOOooooooo!
Until he signs and JK says: “I am ok with it I guess.”
I wonder why other teams that had no interest in Altidore (at least at the salary he wanted) did not make the deal with the NYRB? That seems like a lot of $$$ teams passed on just to keep their spot in the allocation order with no idea of who might be available at some uncertain time in the future.
Totally agree.
Wouldn’t be the best thing for Jozy, but can you really think that the Colorado Rapids wouldn’t be a better team if they bought Jozy?
makes sense, TFC had the chip that made the deal go thru they get Jozy. unless they want to sell him to whoever has the lottery ball — but they don’t
good to know NYRB is willing to spend $7.5m lets see them use it somewhere else.
If RBNY is willing to $7.5m to acquire a player, they can get a DP defender, which is what they actually need. They already have a DP striker. He may not be as good as Altidore but there are other needs this team should be addressing.
I’m glad you pointed this out. I hope NYRB will end up using that money…even as a DC fan.
yeah, as another dcu fan, i’ll +1 this, too. wouldn’t want the rivalry to get boring. hope nyrb spends it all to lure back rafa marquez.
Yup. Let’s get a real quality centerback on the roster, please.
Jozy will break the single season goal scoring record every year starting with 42 goals in 2015.
in Toronto? :))
He’ll be lucky to score 3 in 2015 and probably all of them when they play vs RBNY
*Michael Bradley will break the MLS record for assists as well.
All returning players must go through the allocation order.
Wait no: All returning players must go through the allocation order unless you are a DP.
Scratch that: All returning players must go through the allocation order unless you are a DP making over a certain amount of money.
Um no: All returning players must go through the allocation order unless… we feel like not putting you through the allocation order.
I’m glad they nixed the threshold clause to be honest.
I guess I don’t know what I am talking about, but wasn’t there some kind of rule before that if a player returns to MLS his former club has 1st choice rights to him??
Only if they retained his rights after he left MLS (e.g., by not selling him for transfer fees). Red Bulls sold him to Villareal for $10 million in 2008.
Not if he is transferred out for a fee… and if he’s wearing a silly hat… on a Tuesday.
Of the three, TomG has the best answer.
It depends on whether or not there was a transfer fee involved. Since NYRB got one when Jozy left, they no longer controlled his rights.
It depends on whether it is the third Thursday of the month and a full moon. If it is not a full moon then he is subject to the allocation process. If it is a full-moon then he is available to whichever team MLS want him to go to that is willing to pay big bucks (this is what is known as a “Dempsey Moon”).
I still don’t really understand this. Sure, I can understand thinking that Jozy will turn his form around and succeed in MLS, but it seems odd that Toronto is so keen to get him. I mean, he’s not a draw in Canada just for his name, right?
I’m sure TFC fans will be thrilled if he bags a ton of goals and the team wins games, but if neither of those things happen, then there’s no secondary benefit to having two of the 4 most popular American players in Toronto. At least in NY or another US city, the club would sell a ton of Altidore jerseys and get the kids coming out to see him, win or lose.
Agreed! What gives Canada?
Yes, us Canadian soccer fans are complete morons that do not understand the importance of signing a US International in his prime. I’m sure Lionel Messi would be a lot bigger draw around Rosario than he is in Barcelona.
Oh and we Canadians do not buy kits. Nope not at all, and we certainly won’t buy the kits of one our designated players…you know because he’s ‘murican!
And Toronto, the team with the second highest attendance in the league certainly won’t come out to see him win or lose…because we have proven over the life of the club that we only support winners…oh wait…
With all due respect to the Red Bulls, even with Tim Cahill, BWP and bloody Thierry Henry they still finished below the TFC attendance figures. Are you honestly saying that Jozy Altidore is going to bring in more supporters than Thierry Henry?
Jozy is coming to a team that wants him and made a deal for him. The whole allocation process across the board is an amateur hour joke. Jozy is going to play with Bradley which can only bode well for the US Nats, and he is going to play for a side desperate to love him and see him do well. We bloody sing Danny Dichio’s name for pete’s sake.
Just because he isn’t in a ‘big’ US market means squat. The MLS is a North American league, not an American league. time to think beyond your own borders.
Settle down there, buddy. Sounds like you have a whole list of insecurities that you’re bringing to the table. Not one shred of that was in my original post, but I’m glad you felt like flaming away. At any point did I say that RBNY was a better supported franchise and deserved Jozy more?
The point isn’t that Canadian fans don’t understand the sport or wouldn’t appreciate a good player. It’s that for the kind of money TFC is turning down they could have their pick of players that are far more marketable. The level of support for TFC has been consistently high regardless of the team being a train wreck. Is Jozy going to add to that more than a world famous star? Because for the kind of cash we’re talking about they can go world class, albeit someone older. Jozy’s made his name as a USMNT player, but no one thinks he’s at the top level.
Jozy in a US city, however, would add a ton of value to the franchise apart from what he can do on the pitch. He’d be a much bigger draw at RBNY than Cahill or SWP, and he’d replace a big portion of what they lost in Henry. Not all of it, but a lot. And RBNY has a lot of seats to sell and room for growth. TFC not so much.
Jim, you seem to be forgetting that Jozy WILL play almost half of his games in the US (the away games, less Vancouver and Montreal). That will increase the revenue for TFC wherever they play (and the home team). Also, I’m not sure who you think TFC would get instead that would be a bigger draw, but it is apparent that they are quite happy with having Jozy and Bradley together.
I know it sounds crazy and xenophobic but I just don’t get as excited hearing Jozy and Michael Bradley are coming to town with Toronto. I am more likely to go out to see Dempsey or Jones.
If they were wearing a Columbus, San Jose or Philadelphia uniform I would be more likely to see them when they came to town, there’s just something about playing in your home country.
Mark,
Aren’t Canadians supposed to be nice?
Some the details currently appear to be conflicting.
It’s funny that TFC wasn’t interested in the money…
well i guess it was his only choice since hes too old to go back to holland. The premier league was just to fast paced for him and probably the german would have been as well. I think he’ll do good but not the scoring machine you expect form someone that is gonna be extremely overpaid.
I sure hope that Altidore’s asking price of $6 million is for the duration of the contract. Seems like a lot of money for a striker who hasn’t scored much recently.
I think you’ll find there are many players in the dutch league over 25. Not many earning $5m-$6m a year though.
Ajax have 3 field players over 25 and PSV have 2
Yup. And Ajax and PSV are the only teams in that “league”.
I think he’s going to break scoreboards.
He’s got the kind of strike partner up top in Gilberto who he can combine with, and he’s going to have a guy behind him in Michael Bradley who will feed him. Bradley’s got a great eye for the through ball and chip over the top and he knows exactly how Jozy likes to be served, and that kind of chemistry is worth just a whole lot more than people realize. Nobody, I suspect, is happier than Michael Bradley he’s getting Altidore at TFC.
It’s got another benefit too, because Defoe was a shoot-on-sight, often ridiculously selfish poacher, and that kind of negated part of what Bradley does so well, which is late runs into the box. Jozy is not a pure hold-up guy but he can do that very well, and he knows where and when MB likes to show up. And he’s not even close to being as selfish as Defoe is.
With Bradley and Giovinco feeding him, he will have better service than he ever got at Sunderland.
He’s not too old. He’s too expensive.
Dutch teams prefer to buy low, develop a player with promise, shine him up and sell high. Which is precisely what AZ did with Jozy.
You will never see a Dutch team win another piece of continental silverware again. You will also never see a Dutch team in trouble with Financial Fair Play. They make too much money over the sale of players.
Jozy was not too old.
The single biggest thing about this transfer is the money in reference to Jozy’s salary and in reference to the money Sunderland wanted to recoup on their investment.
Jozy was not a free agent so it was not just a matter of Jozy and club X agreeing to a deal.Sunderland has a big say as well and from the sound of it, TFC represents the best compromise for all parties concerned. Getting Defoe means they can possibly salvage something from a very bad deal for them.
As for Jozy, “beggars” ( ironically at about 6 million per) can’t be choosers. I’ll bet he would rather have gone to France.
Also, I am very much invested in player development and have some strong opinions on it…
Klinsmann should calm down about where players are playing. Players should play wherever they can get to their next level. That does not mean they have to play in Europe, and that does not mean that MLS cannot be a great place for players to develop, even international players.
New reports have Klinsman fine with Jozy playing in MLS. He rather have him play in a CL team, but playing time is better than sitting. I think the link I saw was for ESPNFC
Yeah, but it was clear he was disappointed Jozy didn’t go to Lille or the Bundesliga. At this point he is saying he is just happy Jozy will be playing. He also said that while saying it’s pretty much a done deal so nothing he can do.
It would be simpler if everyone just read the article:
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/01/14/jurgen-klinsmann-talks-jozy-altidore-usmnt-transfer-advice
One thing people keep forgetting is that Jozy was on the second year of a four year contract so he wasn’t a free agent.
Sunderland had more than a little to say in where he went and I’m guessing they wanted as much as they could get, in money and players, back for a bad deal..
It is possible the TFC deal was the best compromise for all concerned. That is not the same as saying Jozy absolutely wanted to come back to MLS but when you play as badly as he has, well beggars can’t be choosers.
I don’t think anyone forgot that. From what I’ve seen, everyone seems to understand Sunderland was the key in Jozy being sold and not loaned. Jozy didn’t even want to go to TFC.
Altidore won’t get to “his next level” by coming back to MLS. unless his next level is mastering step-overs in slow motion. Playing against weaker competition MAKES LOOK better but just like with everything else, without challenge there is no improvement.
Step-overs in slow motion… lol :'(
That is not true. Some things can flourish more when playing against weaker competition: creativity, confidence, consistency, etc. These things will then make you a better player when you play against higher competition. The things I would worry about in terms of development when playing a a lower level are speed of play, positioning, etc.
To expand on that:
Your last comment is “without challenge there is no improvement.”
“Challenge” is not something that is based solely on the players around you, and it should come more from within than from anywhere else. No reason Jozy can’t be challenged in MLS (from himself, from his coaches, from his teammates, and, yes, from his opponents [they are not going to lie down and let him score]).
I agree that playing against weaker competition can help develop creativity, confidence, and consistency …….whey you’re 13. If you don’t have it by the time you’re 25 you’re not getting it.
Altidore is not looking to improve, he’s looking to get paid. He could still improve his game but not as much as he’d have in Germany or France. That’s not what MLS is all about and that’s not what he’s after..
Take two steps backwards to take one step forwards.
Why do you say that these things cannot be developed at 25? The development track that people generally talk about is based on athletic ability. A player may “peak” at 27 or so in terms of speed and athleticism, but other aspects of their game can most definitely continue to improve. I am sure you have plenty of experience in the field though…
I can see that Jozy’s Nats game will be improved from week-in, week-out work with Michael Bradley. Those two are a good dou for the Nats already but imagine after a year of playing together weekly.
Mr. Lamb,
Name the players who have developed these characteristics after the age of 25.
You can name players who first came to prominence after that age but more often than not those players were in situations where their skills and abilities , the entire package, were not properly utilized or appreciated and then a late move brought those skills into the spot light.
Often this happens with a position change.
Franz Beckebauer went from being a great attacking midfielder to an immortal attacking sweeper after he was 25. Of course we are talking an all time great here not Jozy. Perhaps Jozy would make a good center half or fullback.
Anything is possible but development in soccer players is very much like development in most fields especially athletic ones, i.e the sooner you start the better, the tougher your competition the better. And of course, the better your teachers are, the better you will be.
Dempsey has spoken often about how as a kid his playground games were often against grown men who were not particularly nice or kind and gentle. Dempsey on the field has often come across as a pr++k. There’s probably a good reason for that .
Jozy, who unlike Dempsey often comes across as much more warm and fuzzy, could become a “smarter” player. Maybe he will realize that TFC is his last chance saloon and respond appropriately. His biggest problem is his mental fragility. He is too hard on himself, too much of a “team” guy when being just a little more selfish, like Clint, might be more useful.
He might remain that way forever or maybe he finally figures it out at TFC.
All I know is the one guy who got the most out of Jozy, Gertjan Verbeek was a renowned hard case and at AZ Jozy learned everything he needed to know about being a striker:
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/07/11/commentary-why-jozy-altidores-dutch-education-puts-him-position-perform-sund
He just forgot them when he got to Sunderland. Sunderland should have hired Verbeek to get Jozy back on track. I don’t know if Greg Vanney,and his staff is equal to Verbeek and his staff. I doubt it, but really all they can do is get Jozy to remember what he learned in Holland. If Jozy can do that he will be okay.
If he can’t then he is toast because he isn’t 21 anymore learning how to be a striker from a great teacher like Verbeek.
you are joking, right?
“Perhaps Jozy would make a good center half or fullback.” whhhut?
He has proven that he can make a good forward. His last 150 games? shows what he is capable of. He has been very good for two years in Holland and he has been very good for the US national team. He has been in a bad situation and played poorly at Sunderland. He was behind some VERY good strikers at Villareal, and had some decent stints away from there. He was an okay player (he his job) as a 19 year old or something on a Hull team that was horrendous. He did not immediately latch on to another team, but that has as much to do with his massive contract as anything else.
“development in soccer players is very much like development in most fields especially athletic ones, i.e the sooner you start the better.” That is not true. Most often, the players who develop the earliest do not make it to the top.
“the tougher your competition the better.” This is absolutely true…all other things being equal. But how often are all things ever equal?
“the better your teachers are, the better you will be.” duh. Are good coaches limited to Europe? Are all big club coaches good for all players?
You lose me when you start psychoanalyzing Dempsey and Jozy since that is something I simply have no understanding of.
“all they can do is get Jozy to remember what he learned in Holland.” Why can’t Jozy be taught something new in MLS? Better yet, why can’t he learn something on his own from his own experiences?
(fyi – These are rhetorical questions.)
Your last sentence makes it sound like it was ages ago that he was playing for Alkmaar when in fact it was just two years ago that he left as one of Europe’s rising stars.
Mr. Lamb,
“you are joking, right?”
I have no sense of humour so I never joke. Jozy would make a good center half or fullback.
“He has proven that he can make a good forward. His last 150 games? shows what he is capable of. He has been very good for two years in Holland and he has been very good for the US national team. He has been in a bad situation and played poorly at Sunderland. He was behind some VERY good strikers at Villareal, and had some decent stints away from there. He was an okay player (he his job) as a 19 year old or something on a Hull team that was horrendous. He did not immediately latch on to another team, but that has as much to do with his massive contract as anything else.”
Fine, these excuses are ancient history already.
” Are good coaches limited to Europe?”
No, but I notice Jozy found a great one in Verbeek. Is Greg Vanney as good? Maybe he can be but I’d like to see a track record. Can you name me the great players MLS coaches have produced? LD was great the minute he set foot on an MLS field which was after he had signed his big contract and spent time with Leverkusen by the way.
” Are all big club coaches good for all players?””
No one ever said they were.
” Why can’t Jozy be taught something new in MLS? Better yet, why can’t he learn something on his own from his own experiences?”
(fyi – These are rhetorical questions.)”
Jozy does not need to learn any new skills in MLS. In terms of skills he learned all he needs to know in Holland. He is tasked with recovering his former goal scoring self from Holland. If he does that everyone will be happy. And this is the bare minimum of what he must accomplish. After that, everything else is gravy.
And no one said anything about him not being able to learn on his own but you would hope that TFC , an organization with a history of questionable moves, will help Jozy as much as possible given how much money they have in the guy.
..
“Your last sentence makes it sound like it was ages ago that he was playing for Alkmaar when in fact it was just two years ago that he left as one of Europe’s rising stars.”
It was ages ago. Two years ago Sir Alex was managing Manchester United and they won the EPL title It is a cliché but it is also very true; two years is a freaking eternity in soccer.
Ok, he was not seeing time in England. That is a problem and he had to move.
The part that I think about – he ripped up in the dutch league. For argument sake, most, if not all, people will say that dutch league is a step above MLS. Fine, fair. But defensively?
From the highlights i saw out of the dutch league on Jozy and more recently, Ice Man…..
The level of Dutch defenders = MLS defenders.
I would argue that there are better defenders on the top MLS sides than the average dutch teams that Jozy faced there.
I guess bottom line, my point is that Jozy, as a forward, is not dropping a level compared to the dutch league.
What do you think? Fair assessment? Maybe it is looking at glass half full. I am excited we get to watch Jozy play again and get on that scoring streak again.
I think that the Dutch coaching philosophy emphasizes attacking, then possession, over defense. It’s easier to defend against a team that is not active in the attack versus a team that is throwing numbers forward, creating space, having players barrel down the wings, etc. It is probably way more difficult to be a defender in Eredivisie than it is in most leagues. Especially when there are so many forwards that can make you look so bad.
I notice a lot of talk about X league being better than Y league and questions about the Bundesliga and La Liga: are they really better than the EPL? Trite, in my opinion. X league is DIFFERENT from Y league, it’s not better or worse. There’s way more talent in Europe than there is here at home; however, I’ve begun watching MLS exclusively. Why? I care about the player development here, I have a limited number of hours to watch soccer on the weekends and the rivalries mean more to me than Barcelona/RM or This London Team vs That London Team.
La Liga, League Un, Bundesliga, EPL, MLS…they’re all different ways to say the same sport. They each have their own merits and people can decide to watch them or not. The level of technique in MLS can be annoying to watch sometimes, but overall it’s much better product than when I’d go to watch the Miami Fusion in Lockhart Stadium.
Since they never play each other in serious competition we will never be able to rationally compare Dutch league teams to MLS teams.
If you follow their careers you will eventually find more Dutch league defenders on Champions League and World Cup teams than MLS defenders.
And if you follow the World Cup you will realize that the Netherlands is not a bad team and 99 % of their guys started in the Dutch league. I think it is safe to say the Netherlands has a far better and deeper talent pool than the USMNT..
If you rank the strength of a league by how many top class players it produces there is no comparison between MLS and the Dutch league,
Robin Van Persie and Luis Suarez or BWP and Dom Dwyer?
A straight swap would be fair. TFC and MLS getting a good deal if they are getting significant amounts of money in addition.
I think Sunderland is paying MLS for Defoe. I think that is a better deal for the MLS than a straight swap, particularly with the salary Jozy demands. He is a 25 year old guy, he needs to keep his salary as high as he can.
Fair? DeFoe scores goals.
So did Jozy when he was in MLS. At age 16.
Nobody scores goals for Sunderland.
Totally agree. I THINK only Aston Villa has scored fewer, which is evidence enough that it’s not necessarily all on the player.
Just means both teams have bad strikers. This is not evidence that Jozy’s scoring problems are a result of Sunderland’s “playing style.”
I can’t wait to see Defoe, a player who was still on the fringe of the English National Team, struggle to score and be completely forgotten at Sunderland.
Last season Sunderland’s forwards scored a total of 16 league goals (Borini 7, Wickham 5, Fletcher 3, Jozy 1). Their Midfield scored 19…. again, Sunderland’s forwards scored less than once every other game…… as a group. people blame jozy because was starting a good amount……
This season, over half way through, Sunderlands fwds have 6 goals (on pace for a total of 11) and their mids have 11 (on pace for 21) .
So regardless of people’s feeling’s of Jozy being “terrible”, Sunderland does not feed their strikers proper service….. those are just facts. Just because Jozy supporters bring that point up doesn’t mean it’s rose-tinted viewing.
and what’s more (and in response to joamiq’s point below), most of borini’s goals came when he was playing wide, like johnson.
the only forward who scored with any regularity last season was wickham, who got hot over a period of 7-8 games, and hasn’t really done anything since. and notably, most of wickham’s goals came when playing in a two-forward formation, which poyet only played after jozy was dropped, and has since scrapped altogether.
The only reason I watched Sunderland was to see Jozy when he played and to see if he would get on the pitch when he didn’t start. One of the best things about this trade? Now US fans won’t need to watch a truly gawdawful Sunderland team.
+1
If Jozy was scoring at the rates that Borini and Adam Johnson are scoring for Sunderland, nobody would be worried about him.
There is no basis to that argument. Maybe I’m missing some stats but whoscored.com shows Altidore is scoring at a better rate than Borini (who hasn’t scored at all lol) and not that far behind Johnson. The disparity in minutes is so drastic there is no way to say Altidore wouldn’t score as many goals as Johnson if the minutes were switched. Number of goals =/= rate of scoring.
Borini hasn’t scored at all. Altidore has nearly the same # of mins and at least scored once. Johnson has a total of 5 goals but has also played 4.5x as many minutes.
Johnson = 1359min w/ 5g = 1 goal every 271.8min
Altidore = 304min w/ 1g = 1 goal every 304min
Borini = 388min w/ 0g
Sure, if Borini had wanted to come back to Sunderland. He decided he’d rather stay at Liverpool.
Adam Johnson has 10 more shots than Jozy and 4 league goals. Not exactly burning it up.
I’d say the over/under on Defoe going in cold to Sunderland would be 6. I’d take the under, and not due to his age or skill level. It’d be because of the team around him.
MLS was a different league back then. We should see how good Jozy is this second time around.
I heard TFC is getting six million dollars for Defoe and Jozy Altidore. Sweet Deal for MLS and TFC