By CAITLIN MURRAY
Ashton Gotz still lacks an American passport, but it’s looking all the more likely the Hamburg defender will be asked to train with the U.S. Men’s National Team next month.
With U.S. Soccer scout Matthias Hamann overseeing the young German-American’s progress, Gotz is expected to be called in for USMNT friendlies against Denmark and Switzerland at the end of March. His passport likely won’t be in place by then, but he will get to train with the team.
“That way, he can get to know the environment ahead of time so everything isn’t new,” Hamann told Hamburger Morgenpost.
According to Gotz’s agent, the U.S. Soccer Federation is working with Gotz to help him obtain an American passport.
“Jürgen Klinsmann called him and gave him a contact to the federation so he is trying now, with help, to get an American passport first,” Gotz’s agent, Bjorn Gerke, told SBI this week. “Other things will come after this procedure.”
While Gotz is eligible for U.S. citizenship, the process for him to obtain it and thus be eligible to play for the national team might prove a bit complicated. Some of his required paperwork may need to come from his father, but Gotz has never met him.
The Hamburg SV defender has been to the U.S. twice — once with Hamburg’s U-16 squad for a tournament and once to visit an uncle in Chicago — but said he enjoyed it and “the people are very open and friendly.”
Gotz, who can play as a fullback or defensive midfielder, has been with Hamburg SV’s reserve team since 2011 and recently broke into the first team, which was when Klinsmann and Hamann took notice.
“When he increasingly started to be used in HSV’s first team at the end of 2014, it became concrete,” Hamann said.
Gotz plays in Hamburg alongside another German-American who was recruited by Klinsmann: Julian Green, who joined the Americans shortly before the 2014 World Cup and went on to score in the tournament’s knockout round.
“This is an opportunity that I would like to take advantage of,” Gotz told Hamburger Morgenpost. “But Hamburg SV is the priority for me, of course.”
——
What do you think of this development? What do you think of Gotz being put on a fast track to join the USMNT? Think it’s a good idea to bring him in to train with the Americans?
Share your thoughts below.
It seems JK is simply a product of his environment and for logical reasons he trusts that experience. If he trusts the development and resulting “professionalism” of “passport Americans” over MLS products I for one can hardly blame him. MLS has made incredible progress, but still is a toddler.
What about the kids in South America? Seems USSF is ignoring MerSur talent.
The kids in SA are just that KIDS. There are only a handful of these kids in SA, and they are still working their way up the Youth ranks. Their time will come, but it’s not here yet.
You mean like Joel Sonora of Argentina (capped with the US U17s & U20s) and Lipe Fernandes of Brazil (capped with the US U20s)?
We don’t have the numbers in South America, but we are looking.
How this guy gets a fast track to the USMNT and players like Lichaj, Ream, and Spector are not even given a chance baffles me. What is the logic in fast tracking a RB who does not even have a passport on one of the worst teams in the Bundeslinga over 3 Americans who all have experience in the EPL and player consistant roles with their teams. Im all for Chandler, Johnson, and Brooks, but this guy doesnt even have a passport. Klinsmann shouldn’t be fast tracking him to the USMNT. If he wants to play, he should do the process and then be called in. There are better options WITH passports who deserve a look. If they don’t work out and this kid gets his passport, then give him a shot (not a guaranteed spot).
He did give a chance to the first two. And Ream has been called in a few times since the WC…
TGuy,
Lichaj 10 caps
Ream 11 caps
Spector 34 caps
You could argue that these guys might have deserved more caps to make their case to JK but to say they were ” not even given a chance” baffles me and is just bulls++t.
Did Lichaj get 10+ caps under JK? It doesn’t seem like.
Caps under BB doesn’t count when talking about JK “fast track style”.
Why?
Because in my opinion they were not given a real chance under JK, even whey they were playing regularly. Now with Shea is the opposite.
Louis,
As I said elsewhere, Gotz is not so much being fast tracked into the USMNT as he is being fast tracked into a position where JK and his staff can evaluate him with the present team and see whether he has what it takes to go any further with this interest.
Lichaj has already had his chance to make his case.
He has his previous record with BB and Villa. He has his current record with Forest and his time in the USMNT camp during those two games in Europe at the end of 2013.
It is easy for you to sit there and say Eric deserves more of a chance than he has had but you do not know at kind of impression, positive or negative, he made with the USMNT staff and players during his time with them. I do not rate Lichaj but I would not be surprised if he works his way back into USMNT consideration. He still has time to improve and make a comeback.
As for the Shea business, his last USMNT appearance was borderline encouraging but more than anything he plays a position of need, a forward attacking wide player.
Eric remains a right back who does not like to play left back. The US has a lot more viable candidates for those spots than they do for Shea’s position.
Ream, Ream, Ream, Ream. I remember when Ives was his personal promoter as the next big thing for the Nats. Noble effort by a few people on here carry on that legacy.
Ream has become a decent player for club in Europe, but he’s still a defensive liability..even at that level. I’ve watched around 10 games in the past 12 months of his at Bolton and he’s burned too much to consider at the next level. To say nothing of how much he looks like he’s running in mud at the international level.
Ream is an above average passer with below average defensive capabilities. He’s been underwhelming when given the opportunity or in some cases exposed when he’s been called up.
It’s not unreasonable to acknowledge some players are more suited for the club level and their talent (or lack thereof) doesn’t translate to the next level. Ream is one of many examples.
If he’s eligible and he’s good enough, that’s all that matters.
Bingo, you win the jackpot.
I don’t really get why there is hatred for JK. He has brought technical play to the backline. First time ever. Yeah, we are no where near where we want to be, but the foundation of passing and possessing has been laid. Combine that with the up and coming talent, there is hope. The success we are all looking for probably won’t come with Michael Bradley and or Jozy Altidore are suiting up. This will take time and there will be a new coach who finally leads them over the top, but all these guys: Bradley, Arena, JK, etc have had a part.
Root for the good guys and enjoy the games.
I’m the first to admit I do not like what Klinsmann has done nor the MLS. Been following MLS and USMNT since the days of Cle Kooiman.
You know what I’ve done to fix all my frustrations??? Stopped watching and stopped following.
Hateraide and frustrations won’t help “fix” anything or bring Bob Bradley back. So just find a new sport like MLB or NHL or NFL. I promise no Germans will take over and expansion will be limited.
Thanks for reading.
“So just find a new sport like MLB or NHL or NFL. I promise no Germans will take over and expansion will be limited.”
I did not know that those sports were limited to only Americans.
I wonder what guys like Ovechkin and Manu Ginobli, Dirk Nowitski, Nene, and Ichiro, Piug and Cespedes think about that?
He’s honestly nothing special I’m surprised this being made into a big deal. Maybe he just really wants to play for the U.S so JK pounced on him.
+100
It’s real simple. There are eligibility rules. If he qualifies by these standards than he can suit . It makes a level playing field for all. Now if you want to call him a mercenary, fine. But there are rules.
For JK not to use the best players available to him, would be wrong. He was hired by US Soccer to win and improve the program. To not the best players because of some standard other than the rules, would be foolish. It’s would be like saying, “We will never use the four corners offense in the last minute because we believe in attacking offense.” Fine, but there are times when you should hold the ball and not drive the paint.
But as usual Slow left arm continues to argue this issue.
Call it what you will; widening the player pool or adding depth to the player pool; the fact is that having options at every position will be critical over the next 3 years. With the potential of competing in 4 major tournaments before the world cup in 2018 (15 Gold Cup, 16 Olympics, 17 Confed Cup, & 17 Gold Cup), the US will need to have 4-6 players for each position.
Right now the depth at Outside Back is very thin:
LB: Fabian, Chandler, Garza, Ream, Rogers, Castillo, Shea (?)
RB: Fabian, Chandler, Yedlin, Lichaj, Alvalardo,
And while I am a fan of MLS…I cannot think of an Outside Back (Right or Left) within MLS who would be worthy of inclusion in the MLS other than Rogers and maybe Ferrell. There are some prospects in Liga Mex. but they are not ready for Sr. National Team consideration.
There will be injuries, there will be slumps of form, etc… Having other players who could be considered only helps the USMNTs cause and strengthens the competition.
You are making too much sense. Is that allowed here?
I’m not sure many realize that Bob Bradley was the first to bring in Jermaine Jones, Timothy Chandler, John Brooks, Alfredo Morales, and Terrence Boyd, as well as Mix Diskerud, Jose Torres, and Edgar Castillo.
Also, there are many players such as Howard, Jozy, Rimando, and Yedlin that could play for another country, but chose to play for the US. There’s no stink brought up about that.
My biggest issue would be if JK was bringing in players that were getting playing time without doing the work. And while Green going to the World Cup could be argued to be just that, it’s not like he started or played major minutes.
I’m sure Gotz will get a solid look, but if he can’t contribute, he’ll just fade back into the background like so many others.
I don’t think BB brought Brooks, Morales or Boyd but you know what? it sounds good. Continue.
Brooks, Morales, and Boyd all played for the U20s while Bradley was in charge of the senior team, at least. So maybe Rongen more than Bradley, but I’d assume Bob was aware of them.
Maybe I’m splitting hairs here but Brooks didn’t play for U20.
Morales and Boyd played for the U23 team that failed to qualify for the Olympics and I think that was already in JK’s tenure.
If the U.S. knew how to develop technical players it wouldn’t be an issue. If our players were good enough a average player on an average team wouldn’t be able to play for the nats. As it stands he will walk in and be one of our better talents
bingo
+100
Since when is bringing in a guy who’s getting minutes in the Bundesliga to train with the primarily Europe-based team before a set of friendlies fast-tracking him? Was calling up guys like Pelosi, Flores, and Sorto in January fast-tracking them?
Well, he doesn’t have his passport yet, so that’s getting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
Why are you bringing up Pelosi, Flores etc.
They were training for the U17 qualifiers. They had nothing to do with the senior team
I hope not, as they’re both 20+years old, same as Gotz. It’s just Klinsmann scouting for the Olympic team like he did in January, no “fast-tracking” about it.
“They had nothing to do with the senior team”
So those guys will never play for the senior team?
Funny, I thought they were brought to camp for much the same reason Gotz might be, to get a feel for what the real thing is really like, just in case they actually might play there one day.
I’m talking in present term.
The US seems to be really prioritizing the Olympics
JK said the January camp and games were going to be used to get a better look at some of the Olympic candidates and that that would be done at the expense of some older players such as Rogers.
In soccer sometimes the future becomes the present before you know it.
Since I have some time to kill today while waiting on a furnace install, I decided to look up the players listed as having at least one cap with the national team from 1968-1973. Over this five year period around 85 players were listed as capped. Among those whose bios were available (many were not), there were approximately 50 who were born outside the USA. The number is likely higher since there weren’t bios on all of them. This makes sense that it would be so high considering that soccer was only played in pockets and at lower participation levels. The point is our USMNT history has had a heavy German influence since WWII. It isn’t a new phenomenon invented by Klinsmann.
Yeah… But your name sounds German, so your totes biazed man… You’re probably not even a real ‘Merican.
HE PASSPORT AMERICAN BLOG POSTER
SICK ‘EM SLOW
Hahahaha. Born and raised in Wisconsin. Last time I checked my passport it was issued by the State Department. And, they still spell it America.
I think SBI should get an initial reaction from slowleftarm before posting these German-American passport stories. I mean, sure, we know what his reaction will be, but at least if we have his comments in the body of the story, we don’t have to read multiple re-iterations in the comment section…
You don’t have to read them anyway, just ignore them. And if they quoted me in the article, I’d still comment on it.
I ignore it, but you take up space.
I agree for the most part Slow, saves me from typing lol 😛
First of all Slow is not the only one here that feels like he does. Second of all, lets be honest, the majority of people here love arguing/debating with Slow on this topic. You guys almost live for it. In case you didn’t notice TheFrenchOne, your comment proves it. Your comment was a clear attempt to get Slowleft to respond to you.
While I don’t always agree with Slowleft on his specific criteria of who would ideally be allowed to be on the USMNT, I see where he is coming from and agree with his overall view. For me, it comes down to a case by case basis. The individual cases of Jones, Green, Boyd, Johnson, Chandler, Zeledon, Johannsson, Diskerud, Gotz are all different. Some are more dubious than others.
UCLA Bruin, this is a fantastic comment. Thank you for your objectivity.
The reaction to Gotz is more interesting than the player himself.
I know nothing about this guy except for what is in the article. My reaction is JK is looking at building depth. Which is the whole point of the dual nationals. They are stopgaps until a home grown one comes along, if ever. And to those of you who say he is stunting some “real American’s” growth, that is ridiculous. Because sometimes those stop gaps become permanent.
Name me the “real American “players better than Fabian, and Jones. Is Goodson a better center back than Brooks? Would you rather have had Chandler as depth at fullback or Parkhurst/Evans? Does anyone really think Danny Williams is not a worthy competitor to Beckerman, Edu or Perry Kitchen?
Real American men love competition. It makes them better. If the “real American” can’t develop enough to beat out a guy like Gotz, who does not appear to be any great shakes, then why would anyone want that “real American” playing for the USMNT?
Y’all act like there is an assembly line of international quality players ready to swell the ranks of the USMNT. Dream on.
The US is in the same position as many other second or third tier international teams; they have some areas of strength and some areas of weakness. Making do is a characteristic of all such teams.
Dolo was the default long time right back for the US because he was great but he also had very little in the way of serious competition. So when he finally aged out it was a problem. And it might still be a problem if not for Fabian.
+17
Heard he’s not very good. His performances in the Bundesliga that is. From what is sounds like there’s no rush to cap tie him and based on things I’ve read he is worse than Chandler and Johnson, maybe even an out of position Cameron at RB. If nothing else he’s in the discussion for the Olympic team I guess.
Chandler’s performances for club don’t seem to carry over to the national team. If he’s actually played on the right instead of the left he is a better defender than Yedlin. As for Yedlin his only chance for success at Spurs is at right back not a winger. His technical ability and skillset limits him to an outside back. Maybe against CONCACAF opposition or as a sub he is ok further up the field but not if he wants to sustain a career at a club like Spurs.
There’s something you should know. The Bundesliga is one of the best leagues in the world and if a player plays regularly there, he is almost certainly better than someone who plays in MLS. If you didn’t know, Bayern Munich has won a CCL championship and was runner up in the last few years and Germany won the World Cup with players mostly from the bundesliga.
Have to disagree with you here. Bundesliga is a one team league, all those WC players who won the WC did play in the Bundesliga, for one team; Bayern! It’s not even fun to watch anymore. Thomas Mueller even said it’s harder to win in training than it is to win in the league. Bundesliga is best in terms of business, parity of the mid table teams, bratwurst, and being able to get tickets (affordable too!!), but in terms of play quality give me La Liga, The Prem or Serie A in that order.
Grant,
Bayern get a lot of their players from those other BL teams. So those other teams must be doing something right.
Interestingly Bayern, a multi national unit who, besides Germans, start players from the Netherlands, Poland, France, Holland, Morocco, Austria and Spain. closely follow the EPL model of buying players from everywhere.
Hey GW, no you’re right about that they are definitely a multinational team. Sometimes I wish they would buy outside the BL as well. Their transactions make them stronger and other teams weaker at the same time. I generally disagree with Gary when he says that just because a player is a regular in one league automatically makes him better than another player in another league. There are a lot of ‘filler’ type players in leagues across Europe. I’m afraid Ashton Gotz is a ‘filler’ type player.
Grant,
You are right about Gotz currently looking like a “filler”guy. However, he is young enough so perhaps JK’s people might have seen him when scouting Green and they like his potential. Not everyone is going to be JA Brooks who clearly was either going to be a big deal or a big bust.
This article is mislabeled.
Gotz is not being fast tracked into the USMNT.
He is being fast tracked into USMNT training to see how he stacks up against what the US have lying around. Especially when you are talking about potential, it makes sense to figure out right away if a guy like Gotz is worth bothering about down the line.
After all how many important games have you seen Terrance Boyd play for JK? Just because you are some SBI heralded dual national, it doesn’t mean JK will play you when it counts.
Your comment:
“I generally disagree with Gary when he says that just because a player is a regular in one league automatically makes him better than another player in another league. There are a lot of ‘filler’ type players in leagues across Europe.
Is probably the most insightful one I’ve read on SBI in some time.
People on SBI constantly label players based on the league they play in rather than on the actual player and the situations he played in. Luis Suarez and Wilfried Bony scored well in the Netherlands as did Jozy yet no one devalues their Dutch goals the way they do Jozy’s.
The general SBI mindset about the USMNT is a fantasy league one i.e. that the national team should be an All Star 11. Most here ignore the reality that a soccer team is a group of players with complementary skills so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
So when you are talking about “filler” guys like Gotz, it would seem really important to see how well he fits in with the gang as soon as you can.
Absolutely right GW! On the NT I’m sure personalities and leadership qualities are taken into consideration as well.
The Bundesliga a one team league? Maybe in terms of title contenders this season but Wolfsburg would take a most PL and La Liga teams to the woodshed. Leverkusen just beat UCL runners up Atletico Madrid. Schalke is probably close to Arsenal’s level. And don’t forget about Dortmund, winners of 4 straight in the BuLi, who have the talent to get a result against any team in the world.
Random Question: What was that one kid’s name from Germany… I think he was a U-17 (?) captain for Germany, but was eligible to play for the US and played a few U-20 games. This had to have been about 5 years ago? What was his name and/or whatever happened to that kid?
Fabian Hurzeler?
That’s it! Thanks. I always wondered what happened to that kid.
He’s still plugging away at TSV 1860 München II.
I like that we are expanding the pool. Wondering if he will complaint for lack of instructions as a Def Central Mid like Will Trapp. Nice to see competition for mid fielders.
Gotz is a fullback, mostly RB and RCB.
i agree we’ll likely see him at fullback (if he joins us), but i believe he has played in midfield occasionally.
You are correct, he has play some but not enough to say he can do just fine in an “A” game. Come to think of it, JK likes to put players at different position, with JK anything is possible.
Of course, all passport Americans are on the fast track. That’s how JK has built a USMNT full of Germans that isn’t any better than the USMNT under Bob Bradley and plays the same way.
You can argue that the results are similar, but the style of play is VERY different between the JK and Bradley eras.
What games are you watching? This team bunkers just as much, if not more so, than BB’s teams did.
What games are you watching?
All of them. For example, other than the Portugal game, this team parked the bus for the entire world cup. And I don’t mind that if that’s what it takes to win but then I don’t want to hear what a genius JK is and how revolutionary he is as a USMNT coach.
What he hasn’t realized is that if these passport Americans are actually a significant upgrade on what we already have in the player pool, they aren’t going to pick the US. Instead, you have a guy like Gotz who is basically saying he’s using the chance to play for the US in order to improve his career. What do you expect when someone has been here twice and now is going to pull on our national team shirt? Why should be care? Personally, I’d rather have a guy who actually cares about playing for his country, even if he isn’t quite as good.
Why bother having national teams if you can just recruit a bunch of guys from wherever? What’s the point? And I know we aren’t the only ones to do it (i.e. Spain/Costa and many other examples) but we are the only ones to do it to this extent and that’s only happened since JK joined. And it’s pretty sad and embarrassing.
Yeah I really don’t think you have been watching the games. If we parked the bus we would have given up the lions share of possession which we didn’t. I get you don’t like JK and love true Americans but give it a rest or at least find a leg to stand on.
vs. Ghana 59%
vs. Portugal 52%
vs. Germany 63%
vs. Belgium 48%
vs. Czech Republic 49%
vs. Ecuador 57%
vs. Honduras 40%
vs. Columbia 60%
vs. Ireland 58%
vs. Chile 53%
vs. Panama 38%
Yea the USA rarely gives up the lion share of possession. We really showed Panama whose boss!
(sources FIFA and ESPN)
I don’t think you know what lion’s share is nor can you read.
@That_Guy (since the reply button isn’t working for nested comments)
You realize that possession is a ratio of passes complete vs. actual time of possession, right? It doesn’t often tell the whole story.
Also, out of 3 legitimately good performances on that list (against Portugal, Colombia, Czech Republic) we had a possession disadvantage in 2 of them.
Why bother having national teams if you can just recruit a bunch of guys from wherever?
I think that’s pretty insulting to servicemen/women and their children to call them from “wherever”. Next thing that will be said is: “they’re not American enough.” when in reality they’re more American in some respects than many of us with no attachment to the military/service.
‘Next thing that will be said is: “they’re not American enough.”’
it sounds like you’re new here…you didn’t catch slowleftarm’s euphemistic “passport americans”?
Yes, I’m new to SBI.
So someone who’s been here twice and has never met his serviceman father is “more American” than people who’ve lived here all their lives? That’s a good one.
And the whole point of what I wrote is that he isn’t American at all, let alone “American enough.”
The kid has a father and his father is an american serviceman. It’s not like he grew up thinking his dad might be the local butcher.
He’s probably always known about his american connection. That makes him an american.
Not to be an a$$ but, have you guys heard of the saying, “if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it … ?” Well if a kid is the product of some short-lived fling between his mother and some guy just dropping by the country, but then the guy leaves and never takes an interest in him and never even meets him, does he really have a father? I bring this up in response to Old School saying, “I think that’s pretty insulting to servicemen/women and their children to call them from wherever.” Old School, with this particular case (Gotz) I am willing to bet all my money that you are more offended than Gotz actual “father”. Geez, talk about a stretch!
Is President Obama Nigerian or American?
@uclabruingreat
“the guy leaves and never takes an interest in him and never even meets him, does he really have a father?”
um, yes. yes he does have a father.
and old school wasn’t merely defending gotz’s father, but servicemen and women everywhere who had the temerity to have children while in a foreign country.
@Old School As an ex-service man and veteran I do not find it insulting so please don’t try to speak for me. And I wish people would realize that the question of all this recruitment abroad for players with little ties to the US by Jk has nothing to do with if they should or should not be allowed to play but more with if this is an attempt to cover up the ever more showing inability of Jk to build a solid team. The inability to work with and mold players. The inability to get them to perform to the next level something our previous coaches were able to do. 1-2 players I would deem acceptable but trying to recruit almost an entire whole team from abroad that’s the other extreme and isn’t good coaching.
Daniel
“if this is an attempt to cover up the ever more showing inability of Jk to build a solid team. The inability to work with and mold players. The inability to get them to perform to the next level something our previous coaches were able to do. 1-2 players I would deem acceptable but trying to recruit almost an entire whole team from abroad that’s the other extreme and isn’t good coaching.”
You misunderstand the job of a national team manager. By and large they do not “work with and mold players” and “get them to perform to the next level”.
BB did not do that. Maybe you could credit BB for molding and developing Mikey but maybe Mikey’s mom had more to say in that.
BB and JK both took/take the best of what was/is out there and tried/try to fit them into their teams. By the time a national team manager sees you, you can either play or you can’t. Neither one of them had/has the time to fix you or “coach you up”. If Zardes goes on to be a star are you going to tell me that JK had more to do with his success than Arena, the Galaxy coaching staff and players( like Keane, LD and Magee) and UC Bakersfield?
JK is doing what he was hired to do in his managerial role i.e. give himself as many options as he can possibly have within the rules.
And those rules do not limit him to “Real American Men” who play in MLS. .Even Del Bosque did not turn his nose up at taking Diego Costa to play for Spain, the reigning world champs, in the World Cup in Brazil. Talk about cojones. If you don’t like the rules write a nasty but respectful and thoughtful letter to Sepp Blatter not JK or SBI.
Don’t take my word for it, just do the math.
Clint Dempsey averaged 42 appearances a season for Fulham. Throw in the practices and exhibition games and then compare that time to the amount of time he spent with the USMNT over the same period. Did Clint develop more with Fulham or with the USMNT?
BB did not mold and develop Dempsey, Landon, Dolo, Boca, Gooch, Howard or any of those guys Nor did he mold or develop Jozy, Davies or Demerit etc., etc. At best he would gradually bring along a guy like Davies until he was ready.
BB did do the “Brek Shea thing” with Benny, a head case as a younger guy, but all he wound up doing was salvaging a journeyman international career from Feilhaber who could have been a star. BB’s only other attempt at “molding and developing” was with coach killer Adu and that was a failure when you consider the amount of time BB spent on Fredinho and the return he got from him. There is a case to be made that the Adu experiment eventually was a factor in BB’s firing.
JK is molding a team. You just don’t agree with his approach.
“if these passport Americans are actually a significant upgrade on what we already have in the player pool, they aren’t going to pick the US.”
this might be hard for you to believe, but some people actually like this country.
Ok, maybe for some of the recent recruits, that wouldn’t be ridiculous but this guy has been here twice in his life. So now anytime some dude visits somewhere and “actually likes” it he can suit up for their national team?
This goes back to my original point: if you are just going to let whoever play anywhere they want, why have national teams? It’s the same as club football then.
“So now anytime some dude visits somewhere and “actually likes” it he can suit up for their national team?”
we’ve gone over this, sla:
1) gotz isn’t (potentially) eligible simply because he visited the usa, but because his father is a us citizen.
2) no, a player can’t just play for any national team they want. they have to meet the minimum qualifications set by fifa and each nation’s citizenship requirements. it’s not even remotely the same as club football.
i understand your concern about what a mockery the international game could become, but it just isn’t reality (yet). why not wait until it actually happens to wage your campaign?
“Instead, you have a guy like Gotz who is basically saying he’s using the chance to play for the US in order to improve his career.”
You’re upset that he said this out loud, right? Because pretty much everyone plays for their national team to improve their career. They’re professionals (Morris excepted).
We attempted a different style of play between major tournaments but then executed at Brazil a very similar defensive counter style.
If JK could he would play a different style but since the player pool is basically what BB had he’s forced to play the same style. this is why we see JK grasping to find players that fit his system of choice – Miguel Ibarra or forcing call up of Shea when he’s not in form.
This cycle is his to show that the system he wants to play has developed and the players in who have been playing this system from U-23s on down can deliver. These junior teams are the ones to look at for JKs influence on US soccer. It’s too early to use the senior team as a measuring stick. How the US does in in the run for the Olympics and how the U-20s do will inform my opinion of how he is doing.
I’m not here to back JK, it’s just the way I see it.
I think your too easy on him with the national team seeing how there are plenty of other coaches who have done really well with really poor teams in 1 cycle. As for the youth teams. I don’t really think Jk has anything to do with that. One year you just happen to have a good crop and other years you don’t. You look at the sub 17 in 2013 under his tenure they didn’t qualify. This year they changed the format and they shouldn’t have an issue. You look at the sub 20 in 2013 they earned 1 pt. in the group stage. Worst performance of all participants. This year with a new format they qualified but not at top of the group. Both in 2013 and 2015 the sub 20 has been coached by Tab Ramos. So again I don’t think Jk has anything to do with this of coarse if they do well you can bet everybody will want to tie themselves in to the success.
“there are plenty of other coaches who have done really well with really poor teams in 1 cycle”
Like who?.
Say what you want, but without the German/Americans last cycle’s team would have been a decent step down from the 2010 team.
There’s a lull right now.. No one has replaced Landon, Clint, MB90, Cherundolo, Boca, McBride etc in their primes.
You should be thankful. We’d be in dark days otherwise.
I’m shocked you’re first to comment. SHOCKED I TEL YOU!
Just a fluke. I happened to be on the site when it was posted.
Cow pucks.
That’s how JK has built a USMNT full of Germans that isn’t any better than the USMNT under Bob Bradley and plays the same way.
I remain in the belief that people dislike Klinsmann for reasons other than his coaching and that ends any conversation before it can begin. The topic almost becomes reminiscent of political discussion between Democrats and Republicans. No one is listening to the other side of the debate, they’re simply focused on being louder and repeating their talking points more.
JK accumulated more wins than any coach in USMNT history in a shorter period of time against harder competition, friendlies and locations. To say the team plays the same way is pretty absurd.
+1
The teams don’t play the same way but unlike Klinsmann, Bob knew the strength’s and weakness. USMNT shots on goal and scoring opportunities are lower than they were under Bob. And while Klinsmann puts more emphasis on playing out of the back the team is only marginally better at that aspect. Bob overstayed his welcome but he played to the player pool’s strengths, counter attacking soccer which can be called more attacking than what Klinsmann’s team has shown. We pass the ball for the sake of passing it, in our own half. And when pressured our players crap their pants. Talent issue that Klinsmann can’t fix this is true. But at least Bob didn’t try to fit square peg in round hole.
I predict a disappointing Gold Cup followed by Klinsmann blaming everyone else but himself once again. He will probably have had enough and then take a club job in Europe.
The next coach should be Jason Kreis if you’re going American.
But at least Bob didn’t try to fit square peg in round hole.
Memory has a way of being selective.
Robbie Findley and Jonathan Bornstein are some of the worst Nats in recent memory. They were absolute liabilities to their team. Ricardo Clark is an honorable mention, too, and those three names are just a few that immediately come to mind.
Bradley’s teams were tough. I really liked him as a man/coach, but let’s not be foolish and proclaim either coach is without fault in that category.
Who are you saying should have played in front of them? If anything, Bradley was too worried about similar replacements. Him playing Findley was trying to replace one round peg/ speedster up top (pre-accident Davies) with another (nowhere near as talented) speedster. And for all that people (rightly) remember Bornstein for almost single-handedly losing the 2011 Gold Cup for the US after Cherundolo got hurt, he was surprisingly decent in the Confed Cup and was only playing in the World Cup because Onyewu wasn’t 100% fit.
People criticize Bradley for playing too many defensive midfielders, but at least he played them as defensive midfielders. Klinsmann’s had defensive midfielders on the wings and in the back, and you could even argue that pushing Michael Bradley forward so much is another attempt to play a d-mid out of position. Bradley wasn’t perfect, but the square peg complaint isn’t fair, IMO.
MO EDU WAS BETTER THAN RICO
SPECTOR WAS BETTER THAN RICO
PACO WAS BETTER THAN RICO
BOB NEVER CHOOSE ANYONE BUT RICO
ADU WAS BETTER PARTNER THAN FINDLEY FOR JOSMER
DEMPSEY WAS BETTER PARTNER THAN FINDLEY FOR JOSMER
COOPER WAS BETTER PARTNER THAN FINDLEY FOR JOZY
GOMEX WAS BETTER PARTNER THAN FINDLEY FOR JOSY
BUDDLE WAS BETTER PARTNER FOR JOZY THAN FINDLEY
BOB BUNKER NEVER CHOOSE NO ONE BUT FINDLEY
BLIND SQUIRREL FIND MORE NUTS THAN FINDLEY FOUND GOALS
I agree with FRANK
Charlie Davies’ only eventually got in the 3rd confederations game after injuries and poor performances.. Holden wasn’t a center midfielder under Bradley.
r. benjamin,
BB brought Davies along carefully, like he usually did with most everyone. Charlie went to Copa America 2007, then went back to Sweden and was really doing well with Hammarby. Ching was hurt so they paired up Conor Casey with Jozy and that was okay but not what they wanted. Finally, they went with Charlie, who BB already had an idea about since Charlie had been very hot in Europe and the rest is history.
You are implying that BB lucked out and just stumbled across Davies at exactly the right moment when the reality is BB had been bringing Charlie along the whole time.
Bob Bradley is a very good manager not some i++ot who just got happened to get lucky with one of the most selfish j**ks ever to wear a USMNT shirt.
Blind Squirrel is my favorite blues singer.
Guy,
BB and JK are both good managers but they were asked to do different things. Your criticism does not take that into account.
BB, an excellent manager, took his player pool and built his team around what his available players did best And once he found a system that worked ( the Confederation’s Cup team) he stayed with it and built on it. He did this because:
1. He was not secure in his job, despised by fans like you, in danger of being canned and results mattered.
2. The player pool was still mostly what Arena had or at least in that mold. And BB knew this because he ranged far and wide capping as many new players as he could.
The USSF gave JK a different job. They wanted him to win with BB’s mostly aging leftovers and they wanted him to transition the team to a different style at the same time.
What you have seen is in games that don’t matter as much, usually friendlies, they experiment and in games that matter, they revert back to what they know they can do well.
JK said they would revert in games that mattered, so no one should be surprised at the disparity.
And this dichotomy of style will continue until JK replaces BB’s leftovers with a team composed mostly of “his” players. If the USMNT were a college football team you’d give the new guy a couple of recruiting classes to get his team really together but apparently you expect instant results.
Or maybe you wouldn’t.
You forgetting one thing. He has big Sunalati as his number 1 fan. So no matter what results he gets he will never be under any real pressure. There is a huge segment of media that are pro Jk regardless of anything. As far as coaching in Europe I don’t think he’d really get any good offers from Good Teams since their all looking for the Pep’s and Simone’s etc.. But after him I would love for us to get an Argentinian Coach those guys work and put their nose to the grindstone without making excurses. Beilsa, Pekerman, Sampaoli, etc or how about the Columbian Pinto.
“You forgetting one thing. He has big Sunalati as his number 1 fan. So no matter what results he gets he will never be under any real pressure.”
It certainly helps to have the Sunil behind you but he has only one vote out of the 14 on the USSF board. I don’t know if they go with majority rules or if they have a need a unanimous vote. That was one reason it took so long to get BB fired and JK hired in the first place. And if Sunil is so persuasive, ask yourself why it took him so long to persuade the board to hire JK in the first place. Sunil never wanted BB, he just settled for him. Sunil first wanted JK back after the 2006 World Cup. JK has to please the majority of the USSF voting board not just Sunil.
You want JK fired but why would they fire him?. He has had a successful World Cup. He is building a new team for the next one. The USMNT is already in the playoff for the next Confederations Cup. As far as I can tell the awareness of and the popularity of the USMNT is at an all time high. Losing a bunch of experimental friendlies and upsetting the SBI domestic illuminati lobby is not enough reason to get fired.
“As far as coaching in Europe I don’t think he’d really get any good offers from Good Teams since their all looking for the Pep’s and Simone’s etc.. But after him I would love for us to get an Argentinian Coach those guys work and put their nose to the grindstone without making excurses. Beilsa, Pekerman, Sampaoli, etc or how about the Columbian Pinto.’
What makes you think any of them want the job or would take a different approach from JK?
JK makes 2.5 million. The average annual salary in the EPL is more than that.
Arena and BB had similar records to JK as USMNT manager and it resulted in how many offers for jobs from big clubs in Europe?
JK is rumored for other jobs but that is because he had a preexisting record and reputation in addition to his US record. In other words he actually managed a national team to third place in the World Cup.
How many of your candidates have done that? And before you talk about how anybody can easily guide a team like Germany at home to that place talk to Phil Scolari.
Old School, you can say that “I remain in the belief that people dislike Klinsmann for reasons other than his coaching”, but I can say that I am convinced that people like you like Klinsmann for reasons other than his coaching; like the fact that he won a world cup AS A PLAYER, and because he’s European/German, etc.
Bottom line is people like you are forgetting the most obvious factor here, which is that in sports (like in life) its all about “what have you done for me lately?” Just like Bob Bradley was celebrated when we almost won the Confed Cup but then everyone wanted him out after that loss to Mexico in the Gold Cup; Klinsmann and the USMNT have stunk up the joint since last summer. That is where the criticism comes from. It is that simple. The fact that people think we did great in the world cup baffles me. Our group was the “group of death” on paper, but then the tournament actually started and we found it that the paper was wrong. We got dominated in every game except the Portugal game (yes even the game we won against Ghana we were dominated from start to finish).
I think what you also seem to forget is Bradley’s team got smashed the first two games of that Confederations Cup and were lucky Italy took a nose dive after beating us. Otherwise they wouldn’t have made it to even the semis.
That is true CO, but it is irrelevant to my argument above. I am not debating who was better between Bradley and Klinsmann. My argument is that its all about current performance, and there is a very obvious reason for the Klinsmann hate right now. It has everything to do with coaching performance, unlike what Old School suggested above.
That is true CO, but it is irrelevant to my argument above. I am not debating who was better between Bradley and Klinsmann. My argument is that its all about current performance
As the saying goes, Not to be an a$$, but you’re the only one having that argument. I wasn’t debating current performances and nor was the original post that began this topic.
Stop chasing your tail in a discussion no one is having.
UBG,
“Bottom line is people like you are forgetting the most obvious factor here, which is that in sports (like in life) its all about “what have you done for me lately?…… Klinsmann and the USMNT have stunk up the joint since last summer. ”
What you are saying is you care more about the USMNT’s performance in the seven friendlies post World Cup than the World Cup itself.
That is an interesting way to evaluate a team and its manager. That would be like evaluating Bruce Bochy and the San Francisco Giants based on how they do in spring training this spring.
The US has played a total of 11 World Cup games in the 2006 to 2014 World Cups. They had 12 goals.
2006 Clint, Zaccheroni (og) 3 games , 2 goals
2010 Clint,Landon,Mikey, Landon, Landon 4 games, 5 goals
2014 Clint,Brooks, Jones, Clint, Green 4 games, 5 goals
Scorers: Clint 4 , Landon 3, Mikey, Jones, Brooks, Green
You ask how JK has made this team better? Simple
.
In the BB era if Landon did not show up the US did not win a big game.
What JK, as a manager, has done best for this team is make it more of a team and not so much a Batman and Robin, Landon and the Pussycats kind of deal. Maybe that is why the goals gets spread around.
There is an old saying that in battle you fight for the guys in your unit not for the generals. And JK’s team seems very tight with each other. Every single new guy, it seems, talks about how he is welcomed and accepted by the team. Some of you worry about a “mercenary” attitude with the dual guys. I see no issue there but if there is one do you seriously think guys like Mikey and Jones would let it get in the way? I don’t.
UBG,
“Bottom line is people like you are forgetting the most obvious factor here, which is that in sports (like in life) its all about “what have you done for me lately?…… Klinsmann and the USMNT have stunk up the joint since last summer. ”
What you are saying is you care more about the USMNT’s performance in the seven friendlies post World Cup than the World Cup itself.
That would be like evaluating Bruce Bochy and the San Francisco Giants based on how they do in spring training this spring.
The US has played a total of 11 World Cup games in the 2006 to 2014 World Cups. They had 12 goals.
2006 Clint, Zaccheroni (og) 3 games , 2 goals
2010 Clint, Landon, Mikey, Landon, Landon 4 games, 5 goals
2014 Clint, Brooks, Jones, Clint, Green 4 games, 5 goals
Scorers::
Clint 4 , Landon 3, Mikey, Jones, Brooks, Green
How JK has made the USMNT better?.
In the BB era if Landon did not show up the US did not win a big game.
What JK, as a manager, has done for this team is make it more of a TEAM. It does not revolve around the LD and Clint duo, the Batman and Robin model.
Maybe that is why the WC goals get spread around.
The old saying is that in battle you fight for the guys in your unit not for the generals. And JK’s team seems very tight with each other. Every single new guy, it seems, talks about how he is welcomed and accepted by the team. Some worry about a “mercenary” attitude with the dual guys. I see no issue there but if there is one do you seriously think guys like Mikey and Jones would let it get in the way? I don’t.
GW & Old School,
I’m glad you and are here fighting the good fight. Some of these claims are absolutely ridiculous.
To evaluate any coach on the result of Friendlies is foolish. To state that the team plays the same way that it did under BB shows an incredible lack of analysis. If you can’t, as a fan, discern the major differences between BB and JK in just about every aspect of coaching, listen to the players when they discuss the topic.
You can criticize JK for his head games, his handling of Boca and LD, and his bravado, but he’s increased the player pool immensely, he’s overhauled our youth system, and he’s created a sense of competition for starting positions.
Whether these changes will have a positive impact on the future of the program is yet to be seen, but to argue that the man has done nothing or that he’s BB reincarnated is far fetched and out of touch.
“he’s increased the player pool immensely”
source?
“he’s overhauled our youth system”
in what way?
“and he’s created a sense of competition for starting positions.”
i can see this, but it was always going to happen when players retire (one of whom was boca, who i believe was handled poorly). there also needs to be a balance between ‘creating competition’ and ‘building chemistry’.
It’s interesting that you ask for a source for JK expanding the player pool in the comment section of an article about JK trying to add a player to the pool, but I’ll expand anyway.
One of the big criticisms of BB was that he had his favorites and rarely shookup the roster, formation, or tactics. He’d select a guy (Findley, Bornstein, Rico) and stick with him. This often gets forgotten because in the latter stages of the BB era he brought in guys like Torres and Adu, however, his tenure was not known for flexibility.
In the JK era, it’s been quite to the contrary. JK brings in new guys all the time, regardless of league or even professional status (Jordan Norris). Guys like Bedoya, Zusi, Garza, and Besler were given chances and took advantage. Again, whether or not this is a positive for the team is questionable, but it is happening. You can see it in the projected 23 for the Gold Cup article posted today.
As far as the youth system, overhauling the American youth system was a major talking point for JK before he even took the job. Google: Klinsmann, USMNT, Youth.
@crocajun1003
yeah, i was kind of looking for some numbers that i could compare your “immensely” claim to.
and yes, everyone and their mother knows that overhauling the youth system has been one of klinsmann’s talking points. you claimed that he had already done it, which, i’m sure you’ll agree, is a little harder than just talking about it.
Finally someone making sense. Agree 110%. I dislike the guy for his results and his behavior and comments yet when I say something bad about this Jk fans get all butt hurt. So who’s really bias the one’s who say hey guys maybe Jk isn’t doing the best job or the guys who blindly defend him on everything regardless of results.
Imagine this team without German reinforcements.
2014 would have been brutal.
Why don’t you give it a rest or at least come up with some new angle? All of us regular readers know your opinion ad nauseum and I’m tired of reading it.
It’s hard to imagine a more divisive, toxic opinion, Slow. I know you’ll keep yammering away about it and may even have convinced a few, but the decision to bring dual nationals onto the team was made decades ago. Time to move on.
I’ll agree with you that the play hasn’t been a vast improvement and not the exciting style we expected when Jurgen was first hired, though we have seen him experiment like before the World Cup with the 4-4-2 diamond and recently with the 3-5-2. But this argument that it is wrong for taking German-born players, insinuating that more American-born, MLS-based players should be considered is absurd. For instance, look at our backline. There aren’t many quality American options. You could rattle off some young names like Sorto, Sarkodie, and O’Neill. But quite simply, those type of players don’t have the extensive experience the German-born players often have with youth sides and such, nor do they play anywhere near the same level of competition currently. Until our domestic league grows to the point where the newly established institutions like MLS youth sides and Generation Adidas begin to obtain players and athletes that would otherwise be playing other, more popular sports at younger ages and train them in soccer, we will occasionally have to secure the services of players like this. And I don’t mind, nor do I have some weird, arbitrary definition of what an American is to begin with. If you can help expand the sport in this country, more power to you. And on the flip side, you get to explore your American heritage. It’s a win-win.