By RYAN TOLMICH
Julian Green’s days as a member of Hamburg appear to be numbered.
The U.S. Men’s National Team winger has reportedly refused to play for the club’s reserves after being sent down to Hamburg’s Under-23 group last week. Green’s reported refusal has prompted a meeting with Hamburg’s front office in what could be the player’s final negotiations with the club.
Green, who denied any conflict with the club in a Facebook post last week, has made just five total appearances since joining Hamburg on-loan from Bayern Munich at the start of the 2014-15 campaign.
Bayern Munich Bayern Munich CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge called the decision to send Green to the U-23’s “regrettable” but insisted that he would not meddle with Hamburg’s personnel choices.
“That’s not what our intention was — we send players on loan so that they can play at the highest level, and develop,”Rummenigge said. “This not the case now. We can’t and we don’t want to ‘stick our oar in’ when it comes to the HSV coach’s lineup. Nevertheless, the development is regrettable.”
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What do you think of the reports? Hoping Green goes back to Bayern? Where would you like to see Green go next season?
Share your thoughts below.
Green hasn’t earned first team minutes, regardless of coaching changes and injuries. That’s the real story here, not the drama between club executives.
How about the possibility that in the whole scope of things in Germany…. Julian Green is just not better than other options? So many assume that because JK took him to the WC, he must be the second coming. He isn’t but scoring that one goal, got JK off the hook for picking him. I think JK just wanted to cap tie him in case he did turn into something.
I’m moving on. You should too.
Raphael Honigstein (German football correspondent to the Guardian/an actual expert on German football unlike most people on this comment section) described Hamburg as dysfunction and the manager as capricious back in Dec 2014. With that being said, I’m not sure if Green should have gone to social media to voice his issues about the situation. However, it is clear to many that Hamburg is a lost cause, where Green obviously sees zero opportunity in playing on a relegation-threatened team and should move somewhere else.
To the boys in the comments, please stop tying this situation to what happened at the World Cup (especially with JK and LD). It’s another bad club situation and any other speculation beyond that is ridiculous.
I ain’t no Bundesliga expert but I do find it kind of peculiar that it’s never the American player’s fault.
Maybe, just maybe , Green is not good enough for the Bundesliga. Just maybe.
it’s going to be a long time before people stop bringing up the ld decision. It was THAT big of a deal. To pretend like it should just be forgotten is disingenuous.
Sancho: There are factors that come into play that determine a player’s chances of making it in a league. Being young on a relegation threatened team with a poor manager does not help him. These facts have established by Honigstein. I’d say he wasn’t ready for the Bundesliga yet and his time would have been better spent in the 2nd division or on a mid table team in the Bundesliga. Anywhere but a team in a relegation fight.
how things can change: Not saying that people should forget the LD issue. I’m saying that it has zero to do with this situation. This issue’s more like what Altidore went through in his club career.
“like what Altidore went through in his club career” – yeah except for the minor detail that Altidore was playing and scoring goals for a first division team when he was three years younger than Green.
Are you talking about RBNY?
So what does that have to do with anything?
By the way , I did not write “exactly like what Jozy went through in his club career”.
This kid keeps shooting himself in the foot. Just because a desesperate coach took him to the WC doesn’t mean the Bundesliga owes him a startin position. He’s just not good enough. He should take the chance with the U21 and make the other desesperate coach have no choice but to put him on the field.
Worst case scenario you catch the eye on a BL 2 coach and get yourself some playing time in a league closer to your skill set.
JURGUNN CALL YUR AGENT AND GET THIS KID SOME PLAYING
This young man needs to come play in MLS for $36,000 per year & get some minutes!!!!
you mean as a returning us hero and make 8 million?
This is beginning to become a travesty! Obviously Bayern has chosen the wrong club to loan him to if he isn’t getting games. Bring him back to Munich for the remainder of the season.
Bingo. Add in the coach that brought him was sacked (as a commenter stated above) and it’s obvious that the new coach didn’t rate him highly or didn’t value him or whatever it may be. bring him back to Bayern II or 3 month loan to MLS for marketing purposes. Didn’t Bayern just partner with an MLS team maybe? can’t quite remember
If he doesn’t want to play for the u21’s what makes you think he’d want to play in MLS?
I’m sure there be a BL2 that would like to have him. He already wasted enough time with Hamburg. No need to make the situation worse.
Boggles my mind how small the US talent pool is. JG can play in the WC for the US(albeit limited time) but is being sent on loan in Germany and then down to the U23 squad. He is not the only player that exemplifies this but certainly one who has been put into the spotlight. Given the US has now moved on to the round of 16 in the last 3 World Cups it makes you wonder how much additional talent you really need to be successful beyond the round of 16.
The Manager who brought Green in for the loan was fired at the beginning of the season. Green then was injured. If I was Green, I would cancel my loan and return to my parent club. It’s a season long loan in a club in a relegation battle. He is not in their future plans. This actually is similar to Jozy’s spell in Spain when he was loaned out to the 2nd division team who were in a promotion run. They did not really need him at the time.
It just sounds like everyone is still mad he went to the world cup and not Landon Donovan. Get over it already.
For the record, Sunderland sucks. Their style of play sucks. Asamoah Gyan left Sunderland for the Middle East. He scores a lot of goals there and still scores in International play. Jozy scores for Toronto, he will score for the US in bunches. Leave him alone too.
agree with some of this but let’s be real clear here: no one has it out for Julian Green because of the LD snub. BS
I love how that’s the go to now…if there’s some real reason to look at JK and go “wtf dude?” there’s now a chorus blaming the questioning on the LD fiasco. BS. plenty of other things to discuss in those regards outside of LD.
get over it already
“no one” ?
Now that is naive.
The vitriol against Green is a joke.
I don’t know more than any one else whether he’s got what it takes (now or in the future) to be a true difference maker in the Bundesliga or on the USMNT or wherever. That said, what’s happening here sure feels like we have people actively rooting against Julian, which is beyond stupid.
If that helps you sleep at night, then have at it; but I find it detestable.
Hope the kid’s situation resolves itself in a positive way for him and for US fans.
For reals.
Dunno what’s going on at Hamburg but it’s obviously a club in chaos and free-fall. Trying to extrapolate anything from that is…pointless.
Personally I agree with those who think a stint in MLS or a B.2 side would be good for him. Let him develop a bit over the next couple years, get regular games, and let’s see where he is when he’s 21, 22.
Giving up on him now is…premature. By probably 6-7 years. If he still can’t crack through to the 1 by then maybe he’s not as good as Klinsmann thought, but it’s just WAAAAAY too soon to make that judgment.
yea man it’s like the second a player has a bad moment in their career people start the murmurs of “another Freddy Adu”, like this is the Salem Witch Trials……. lol he’s freaking 19. let him play and grow (physically…..)
+ 1
Stuff is starting to get downright ugly around these parts.
Amen. What’s worse is that these are the same type of people who believe the U.S. is under achieving if they don’t win the World Cup. It makes so sense. Turn off your computer and go outside for once, or go back to fighting it out with someone on a pointless YouTube video.
whoever is rooting against him is pathetic, period
but that’s a very different discussion than the one centered around him being chosen for the 23 last summer
Unfortunately, most people don’t see a difference, which is sad.
Anyone wants to be mad at JK for taking him.. fine, legit question, defensible position, voice your displeasure…etc.
But why anyone would want him to fail is just sick- ridiculous
I think it’s cool that we have a kid who is saying “been there, done that and I want more!” This inferiority complex of just take what you are given does not work for the kid. I commend and respect that. He wants to fight for what he wants, all he asks for is a chance. I don’t have any beef with that.
Green pretty much dominated in the Regionaliga and proved himself. I don’t really see what point it’d serve playing at that level any longer. He should have gone to a good Bundesliga 2 side rather then a club in chaos.
Well it’s settled then, Julian doesn’t want to develop himself at the highest level. Klinsy is not impressed.
Come home to MLS, Juilan!
If Green can’t make the bench for a team that got drubbed by 8 goals, he’s probably not that good. Outside of nice run and shot against Belgium (seems more like a fluke than , Green has looked small and over-matched physically. He should be playing in a U21 league until he doesn’t get pushed around or stops getting injured.
He’s played at that level before and done extremely well (15 goals in 18 starts). He needs to find some where in between perhaps to continue his development.
+1
not only that, SBI Troll, but you also for got to close your parentheses…
Not to make too many excuses but this seems to happen far to often. I think the club taking the player on loan should get a percentage of the next sale or contract. Unless the player is going to walk on and score you 15 goals, where the incentive to develop and give a player minutes? Perhaps they isn’t speaking directly to Greens situation as Hamburg just need anyone to help them stay up.
This hamburger is still undercooked.
wow, judging by your usual intellectual comments I’m surprised to see such a weak attempt at humor…. L….o……L……….
I figured corny end of the spectrum when I typed it, but I have to break the mold occasionally. You can’t be relentlessly rational.
” You can’t be relentlessly rational.”
haha touchè my friend, thou art forgiveth
what a mess, I feel for the kid.
One of our best 23 last summer? I’d laugh it wasn’t so painful. Maybe he’ll become one of our best 23. good luck to him
I love him for the goal he scored, but it’s insane we took this kid to the World Cup.
Nothing insane about taking him. I have no problem with it. Teams often take young highly rated prospects to these tourneys all the time. He went, learned a ton, was fortunate to see the field and…what else? Hmmmm…Oh, yeah scored a WC goal – something that many greats cannot say they have done. No hype here as I think the kid has a lot of growing up to do but he was taken because of his potential and he showed well so I don’t see the insanity in the choice.
hey Chris, agreed. just look at the arguments put forward defending the choice over the other options available. weak and at this point, fully exposed as wrong
“the arguments put forward defending the choice over the other options available.weak and at this point, fully exposed as wrong ”
Wrong? Hardly. Landon (or EJ or Boyd) might have scored that goal but Julian actually did .
The reality is JK said he wanted Green for late game instant offense and that is exactly what he got. Green scored a goal that put the US back in the game with Belgium and gave the team 13 minutes to try and take the game to penalties.
And Clint nearly did. Green did his part so JK’s decision to take Green to Brazil for late game offense proved to be correct..
And assuming Green gets over this loan fiasco and he should, he should be a much better player for the US in 2018 for having gone to Brazil.
wrong big time. that you continue to refuse to acknowledge this fact is sad imo
What fact?
That it was in your view, wrong to take Green to Brazil?
That’s your opinion, not a fact. I don’t agree with you. I saw it as a gamble. One that worked for the reasons I have already mentioned.
The decision that shocked me besides LD was Yedlin. That worked out so well people forget how far out in left field that decision seemed to be at the time
the Yedlin move was great! no one forgets the situation in that one, no history revisions are out there trying to pretend it’s not what it is, or other forms of rhetorical BS. good on JK in that move, horribly wrong on JK for the LD one. can you go there?
The reality is that Green was brought in as a desperate move for fresh legs against Belgium.
To claim that Klinsmann saved his “instant offense” for the 105th minute of a knock out game is a bit far-fetched. If he was truly brought to the World Cup for “instant offense”, then why bring in a full back (Yedlin) to play the outside wing position vs. Portugal instead of Green? Why not bring Green in for “instant offense” against Germany when the US attack was so stagnant? Why not sub in Green before full-time vs. Belgium rather than the last 5 minutes of additional time?
Did he make a great run and score a nice goal? Yes. However, all evidence points towards Green being subbed in late in the Belgium match as a desperate move by Klinsmann, not a brilliant one.
I want Green to succeed as much as any other USMNT follower. I wish that he was/is the player than Klinsmann wanted everyone to believe. But he has failed to impress 3 club coaches enough to get on the field.
No doubt he will be a much better player in 2018 than now, because he just is not that good right now.
SDinC,
“To claim that Klinsmann saved his “instant offense” for the 105th minute of a knock out game is a bit far-fetched.”
Are you saying that going into a World Cup a manager is supposed to know exactly when he will have to deploy his ace in the hole? A manager can’t always control all the circumstances of when he can sub in a player.
“If he was truly brought to the World Cup for “instant offense”, then why bring in a full back (Yedlin) to play the outside wing position vs. Portugal instead of Green?”
Did you think Yedlin did a nice job when he came in? I thought he did. I’ll bet most everyone did. I thought Yedlin made more sense as a sub in that situation than Green would have.
“Why not bring Green in for “instant offense” against Germany when the US attack was so stagnant?”
Because the US needed to win, tie or at worst only lose by one goal to advance. So JK played it conservative. Oh and the US advanced.
“Why not sub in Green before full-time vs. Belgium rather than the last 5 minutes of additional time?”
It was not the last 5 minutes of additional time. Green came in at 105 minutes, meaning there were still 15 minutes left.
Fabian was subbed out in the 32nd minute. So JK was forced to be very conservative with his subs especially knowing that the game might well go 120 minutes.
Wondo was the second sub and was the first “instant” offense sub. It ended 0-0 in regulation and would have ended 1-0 for the US had Wondo scored with that chance in injury time. And of course Wondo should have scored and maybe Green never gets a game and you have no worries. As bad as it looked the US were in that game to the end and could easily have won it.
Are you saying JK should have subbed in Green for Wondo and then Green would have scored that chance? Well maybe but Wondo and Clint were the two US players on the field at that time most likely to bury that chance if you go by their skills and stats but it doesn’t always work out does it? Hindsight makes all of us geniuses doesn’t it? One of JK’s instant offense subs fails and the second succeeds.
When Belgium scored the first goal in overtime Green started to warm up and was actually waiting to get in when Lukaku made it 2-0. Green scored two minutes later.
Was that a desperation move? Sure but so what? Explain to me what difference that makes? You bring a guy for just this sort of situation. The situation comes up. You put him in the game. He scores.
Tell me what is wrong with that ?
First, Green is/was not the USMNT’s “ace in the hole”…lol. Let’s get that straight. I do not believe that any manager in the World Cup, including Klinsmann, would have pointed to a 4th division player of any league as his “ace in the hole”. An”ace in the hole” would be someone like Chicharito for Mexico or Lukaku for Belgium. A proven player that you plan to bring on in any match to create opportunities. Note, any match. Green was desperately brought on as fresh player in the 105th minute in the USMNT’s final match. Not as an “ace in the hole” or “secret weapon”.
Lol…again far-fetched.
Does it matter how Green made it to Brazil? At the time, no. Any player would be crazy to turn down a gift like that. Were unrealistic expectations created by being given that spot. Absolutely.
That’s is the premise of the entire article and argument here. Why has he not succeeded during his loan stint? He is not that caliber of player yet. Is that really an argument anymore?
Again, I want Green to succeed. Anything that makes the USMNT stronger, I am in full support of.
so because he was warming up that means he was coming in? No. players warm up and do not enter the games ALL THE TIME! JK had to insert him there. you keep trying to use the choice to bring Green as some sort of move that history has justified as correct. come on man, you’re losing credibility quickly
Nothing is wrong with that GW. That’s exactly right. This whole argument is bizarre. Green was precisely the type of player you want to deploy in late-game situations — he’s fast, decent with the ball, and naive enough to try something stupid. Klinsmann used him in precisely the way he would be most useful — i.e. bringing him in late in the game when the team was down a goal and needed offensive punch. And he scored. If anything, the goal was a vindication of the decision to bring him, but even short of that, there’s no logical way to argue that the decision was definitely wrong.
*I should clarify, I don’t mean all late game situations. What I meant to say, but didn’t, was late game situations where you’re down and need offense.
beachbum,
DeBruyne scored for Belgium at 93 minutes. According to accounts afterward that’s when JK decided on Green. Julian got up and began prepping to enter the game. When a player is subbing into a game it sometimes takes several minutes before they actually let him get on the field. He was standing on the sidelines waiting to get in at 105 minutes when Lukaku did his “Beast Mode” impersonation by running over Besler and scoring. That was when the ref finally let Green on the field for Bedoya. Green then scored two minutes later at the 107 minute mark.
You should look that up and confirm that I have it right.
He’s still better then Brad Davis and we took him so…
Really? Better than Davis?
You are proclaiming a player, albeit a talented prospect, who has yet to excel at any level above U23 for any sustained period of time to be better than an MLS all-star.
I am not a Houston nor really a Brad Davis fan, but I couldn’t let that proclamation slide by without some sort of explanation.
I can’t speak for Jack above, but YES Green is more talented than a 32 year old Brad Davis. With that said, I’d have rather taken LD and Boyd over both of them. When Boyd was 19 he was a highly talented prospect. People were patient with judgement and he slowly matured into a solid young forward. Had Boyd gone over Green I truly feel Green would have still chosen to play for the US after watching the WC. JK could have used the u20 WC, Gold cup and/or Olympics as bait. Just my opinion. And in terms of LD over Davis, they were both old yet one obviously had a better career and was a better player.
“Better” and “more talented” are not synonymous terms.
From what little I (or anyone else for that matter) has seen of Green outside of training, I would probably agree that Green’s talent or skill set may be better than Davis’. But, given the limited exposure Green has had outside of the Bundesliga U23’s, to state as fact, at this time, that Green is “better” than Davis I think is a stretch.
The Bundesliga isn’t really set up with U23 sides like in England. Clubs have second teams that play in the Regionaliga, that is the forth division. Not that high of a level but it is all ages.
DLOA,
“Better” or “more talented”?
How about the player that fits best into what the team wants to do?
On SBI so many of these debates over players boil down to “better” stats and “better” league, as if you were picking an All Star or a Fantasy League team.
The last time I checked this was still a team game and what really matters is does the player fit in and make the USMNT better?
I like Boyd, he is better in the air and bigger and stronger than Green. But he has never looked good in a senior USMNT shirt. And he is competing with Jozy.
Green on the other hand is competing for a spot that no one has yet locked down. And unlike Boyd he has been productive in a meaningful way. He had a few anonymous friendly appearances and then came on the field in the knockout round of the World Cup with the USMNT down 2-0. Within a few minutes, he scored and made it 2-1 with 13 minutes left. He gave the USMNT a fighting chance to tie Belgium and take the game to penalties.
That actually happened. There is no “if he had been given the chance he would have done this “. He actually scored. Nothing theoretical about it.
That goal is actually a big deal because since the start of the 2006 World Cup the USMNT has played 11 World Cup games and scored 12 goals; 1 own goal( Zacherroni), 4 by Clint, 3 by LD, 1 by Mikey, and 3, all important, by JK’s hated Germans, Jones, Brooks and Green.
The point is to date Green in his short career has done more in real terms for the USMNT than Boyd has done. Going forward from here who knows?
Maybe Green never wears the USMNT shirt again and Boyd supplants Jozy. Whichever one makes the team play better when he is in it, that is who will play. Like Lippi said, it’s not the best 11 but the 11 who play the best together, or something like that.
It’s like Jozy, he’s had an uneven and mostly poor club career but usually the USMNT does better when he is has been on the team. Which is why I have little issue with the man.
“The point is to date Green in his short career has done more in real terms for the USMNT than Boyd has done.”
Let’s not let one good run/goal overshadow the fact that Green has done nothing else noteworthy while in a USMNT jersey.
this is true as well…
SDinC
You act as if Green did a bad thing.
That game and that goal did not make Green a USMNT regular but at this point the World Cup is the single most important thing the USMNT does so what he has actually already done is worth more than you give him credit for.
Green has played in a World Cup.
Many great players, Ryan Giggs and George Best for example never have.
That is noteworthy.
He has scored an important goal in a World Cup .
Zlatan Ibrahimovic has never
scored a goal in the World Cup, important or not.
That is noteworthy.
He is a good prospect for the future who has already done a lot for the US.
Instead you act as if he has some contagious disease.
GW, I think you’re started to read too much into peoples comments. He never “act[ed] as if he has some contagious disease.” he just basically said you gotta fairly look at the whole picture. Imagine Brek Shea had somehow made it over Davis or someone, and say he played in stoppage time vs BEL instead. say he scores that goal too ( i know this is pretty funny what if… lol) but would you view Shea in a similar light to how you view Green–in terms of USNT contribution etc? not coming at you just curious in a friendly way. haha
At the time, I valued Green’s goal as much as anyone. Loved it! Acknowledged its quality. There is nothing wrong with scoring a great goal. Green just hasn’t built on that one run/goal. For the sake of the USMNT, I want to be wrong.
I choose not to overvalue the goal based on what is best for the USMNT going forward. How is Green going to make this team better going forward. I like everyone else expected some quality play since then. It just hasn’t been there, either for club or country.
SDIC,
“I choose not to overvalue the goal based on what is best for the USMNT going forward”.
That is a fancy way of saying you are choosing to be a Debbie Downer. I realize in the current environment it is unfashionable to credit JK for anything good but that should not cause Green’s accomplishment to be undervalued.
“How is Green going to make this team better going forward. I like everyone else expected some quality play since then. It just hasn’t been there, either for club or country.”
In the 2006 World Cup the new kid on the team, Clint Dempsey scored a fine goal vs. Ghana in what was ultimately a 2-1 loss
Just like Green, that goal in 2006 did not guarantee that Clint was going to be a star or even a regular but it was a good sign. Clint took that goal and went on to a fine USMNT career but it took a little time. Apparently you aren’t willing to give Green any.credit or time to earn his way forward with the USMNT. This is where I find your hostility to Green curious.
Since that Belgium game and the end of the World Cup the US has played 7 games, all friendlies, all acknowledged to be more or less experimental at the very beginning of the next World Cup cycle, not unlike NFL preseason games.
Green has participated in three of the seven games. He went 90 minutes in the first game a 1-0 win over the Czech Republic and put in a so-so 90 minutes. He came in for 4 minutes at the end of the Colombia game and didn’t play in the Ireland game. I’m not sure but he may have been battling his rib injuries in those last two games.
I did not find Green’s participation in these last group games to be particularly disturbing or encouraging either way. He is after all,battling injuries and trying to win a job at Bayern.
And of course several of his World Cup team mates, such as Besler, Mix and Fabian, none of whom have looked particularly convincing for the US in those same post World Cup games.also seem to be suffering from World Cup hangover.
I’m pretty sure Deandre has a good chance at a solid USMNT future but look at all the people who are tearing him apart based his performances in these friendlies. You’d think he was Bornstein, Rico or Sacha, noted USMNT butt boys.
Lol…GW
You have gotten the wrong impression here. I like Julian Green.
I also like Juan Aguedelo, Miguel Ibarra, Rubio Rubin, Emerson Hyndman, Haji Wright, Bradford Jamieson . All great attacking prospects, just like Julian Green.
Just like I am anxious to see what else these kids can and will do to progress their development, I expect the same from Julian Green. You consider that a bad thing. To you that is an indication that I do not like Julian Green. As soon as Julian Green earns time on the field for either club or country and shows progress towards becoming a top international player, I will be the first one singing his praises. The same way I would for any other US prospect.
Has Julian Green had any sustained success anywhere above the 4th division of the Bundesliga? I will be jumping for joy when he does. Until then, I will continue to ask the same question. Is there more to Julian Green than one good run/goal? I hope so.
“And of course several of his World Cup team mates, such as Besler, Mix and Fabian, none of whom have looked particularly convincing for the US in those same post World Cup games.also seem to be suffering from World Cup hangover.”
Every one of these players has shown sustained success/excellence at a much higher level than Julian Green. For them it is a letdown. Green has never proven to be that caliber of player yet. How can it be a “letdown” if you’ve never shown to be a top international level player?
GW-
““Better” or “more talented”?
How about the player that fits best into what the team wants to do?
…….and what really matters is does the player fit in and make the USMNT better?”
sure, I’m right there with you here. I’d argue Boyd fit the system tho. perhaps its all a hindsight theory (enter “JK didn’t bring a backup for Jozy/poor coaching” debate…lol),
As for the whole “Green’s goal importance” I don’t disagree but then again using that to argue “who should have been in the 23” would be hindsight as well. But, to be fair, I agree with the you. I like Green, i just think leading up to the WC, Green had done LITERALLY nothing more than a flash here or there where as Boyd had been with the US for a decent amount of time and was progressing (he’s scored 13+ goals since 2010 on the club level, name another US player doing that)– to clarify, I’ve long been a Boyd hater due to his childish arrogance and attitude when he played (for the USNT); BUT i have since seen him grow (as an early 20s young man would) and now hope he succeeds. He seems to “get the big picture” more now; IMHO…… so when i look at that choice of a “talented prospect who looked a little weak at the international level” vs “a strong tall ST that has experience (dare i say ‘fit the system’) with the NT and would be a replacement for starter (hindsightingly(sp?lol)” I’d choose the latter…. but that’s me, such my comment on an internet blog implies.
I do agree that all in all you could say Green has done more NOW for the NT than Boyd. But my original comment spoke to JK’s 23 rather than “who’s been more important for the USNT”……
so all in all i agree with most of what you said, tho i don’t feel our comments are completely mutually exclusive….. while reading your response I found myself asking….myself “how does this conflict with what i said?” lol.
cheers, my good sir. I do always enjoy your comments.
DLOA,
It’s interesting but the main reason everyone brings up Boyd lately is in relation to Jozy’s injury in the WC.
I’ve seen just about every appearance Boyd has made for the USMNT and I’m not so sure he would have been a good backup for Jozy. I rate Boyd but he is prone to that mindless chicken jumping on top of a bull in a china shop thing. He might have been great or he might have been Edson Buddle vs Algeria i.e. anonymous.
For me the tragedy with that position was that EJ imploded after transferring to DC United.
After the US qualified I was certain EJ was going to Brazil and the USMNT certainly could have used the WC qualifying version of EJ in Brazil.
I still haven’t read a good explanation of what happened to him and I know he currently has some serious medical issues so I hope he gets better
“but he is prone to that mindless chicken jumping on top of a bull in a china shop thing. He might have been great or he might have been Edson Buddle vs Algeria i.e. anonymous.”
HAHAHAHAH fair enough, I feel like he was slowly getting better. and his club form has been strong the past few years.
We just got spanked 8-0 by bayern this weekend. If he was smart he would find a better club. For the first time in history we may be sitting in the 2 bundesliga next year.
They did it for Julian
TFC….you’re on the clock.
I can’t help but wonder if a MLS move at this point in his career could be really beneficial, even if not a permanent one, such as an 18 month loan from Bayern.
actually that wouldn’t be a terrible idea, even if it was just through the summer transfer window. Get him games for a few months (in the US market$$) then bring him back to Bayern to assess, etc…
DLOA,
If that were such a good idea why don’t you see it happen more often? There have been loans from European teams to MLS teams ( Charlie Davies, Sochaux to DC United) but that was a prelude to dumping Charlie.
If the player is a valued prospect, which Green appears to be, it seems to me Bayern would rather send him somewhere close and familiar , two things MLS teams are not.
Bayern has a history of loaning out players when they are young (Kroos, Alaba and Lahm for example) to get them going. It seems to me they were going this route with Green, World Cup or not.
i feel ya bro, I really just think it COULD be a good idea for this specific situation. Bayern obviously wants to control his development, but if they weren’t going to play him on either level then maybe a place where he’d almost guarantee minutes for a few months could help. Then give him a full preseason back with Bayern starting end of summer and go from there; but this way he gets minutes. I just feel from their perspective they could cash in on his US appeal (perhaps tarnished more recently) and let him play half a season in the MLS will full intention to recall him end of summer. Sure, not the only route and TBH, I don’t have a HUGE interest in it happening but there are worse situations than that.
DLOA,
I’m willing to bet Bayern have a number of suitable loan partners who would fit what Bayern wants to have Julian challenged with.
What is the objective of the loan? To prepare Julian to challenge for a first team spot right?
So it would make sense to loan him to a club that would approximate Bayern’s situation, on and off the field as closely as possible.
I don’t see any MLS club that would do that better than another Bundesliga team. Not so much for the level of competition or the talent as for the approximation of the situation.
Look at it from Julian’s POV. He is trying to get to play with and maybe even eventually replace guys like Ribery and Robben. And apparently, Guardiola, who is not as despised as JK, seems to think Green is worthy of being in that conversation even if only in the most distant terms.
Others here have speculated on Green’s mental strength. This is a kid who believed he was good enough to play in a World Cup and to eventually play with or maybe even replace guys like Ribery, Robben and Mueller. This kid is not a shrinking violet and his SBI posse is writing him off way too soon.
My understanding is that the MLS does not accept loans of this nature without an “option to buy.” Perhaps someone with more knowledge can confirm. But it would explain why MLS (in theory an solid option for player development) never sees loans like that. There’s no way one of the big boys would risk losing an asset with an option to buy clause just to get a player more PT in the USA when they can do it risk free domestically or closer to home (Holland, Belgium, etc.)
Hamburg management hasn’t been up to the task all year so no surprise that they would mismanage their relationship with BM and JG. He assumption seems to be that a struggling team is struggling because of the quality of players available. That may be true in part, but when these loans not only don’t work but really aren’t even given a chance that there are things going on behind the scenes with management or between management and players. When that’s the case it wouldn’t matter who was brought in, they’d fail.
Sounds like the same conversations we always had about Altidore. He’d succeed if he was just in the proper place/better team/better management.
Maybe Julian Green just isn’t particularly good.
Given Hamburg got thrashed like. a 3.Bundesliga side without Green in the lineup I think it’s fair to conclude Julian is probably good enough for Hamburg though.
…so you are throwing a 19 YEAR OLD under the bus??? His career is just starting. Despite what you or I may think of him, Bayern has always thought highly of him. However, I think there is too much focus on the kid now which is not good for him. Let him work without so much attention on him.
when JG committed to the US there was so much hype that many people believed he’d be the new Messi, it is really early in his career but at 19-20 most elite players already make a difference, it is obvious that he won’t be a world class player, there is a reason why Germany gave up on him so easily, he could still be a good player like JJ or Fabian Johnson but not the American World Class player everyone keeps waiting for.
Yes because there has never been a late bloomer, ever, in any sport. How about we all (hype-singers and downers) hold our final verdicts and let the kid develop and grow into the game, shall we?
Absolutely hope that Green is a late bloomer.
The overreactions now I believe are a direct result of being placed in the WC team giving USMNT fans the impression that Green was ready now, rather than giving the kid time to develop.
The indirect benefit of his unsuccessful loan stint at Hamburg is that USMNT fans will hopefully re-adjust their unrealistic expectations brought on by his World Cup roster inclusion. Hopefully allowing Green to develop with a league/club that fits his current development stage.
Can’t agree more. Too much hype too early for a such a young kid. Trying to live up to that WC spot is tough. Might have been better off without that golden ticket, but who in their right mind would turn down a gift like that.
Hope the kid finds a place to develop without such a big spotlight.
Dude, Hamburg is two points clear of the drop zone and just lost 8-0 to Bayern. I would agree that they have “mismanage(d) their relationship with BM.” They seem to be wading in it.
EDIT: To make it clear that the previous comment was a poop joke.
Excellent point and I had the same observation. When you lose a game 8-0, even it was against Bayern Munich, it shows Hamburg is in dire need of support in new players or a change in management. It’s obvious that the coaching staff do not think much of Julian Green, having given him virtually no chance and then sending him down to “the minors” But the again I’m sure that Julian Green. a multitude of Hamburg fans and the Bayern Munich coaching staff do not think much of Hamburgs management.
Let me add that I think Julian Green has been the subject of too much hype by being one of Klinsmann’s “wunderkids”. His stats that boosted him into the spotlight for a WC spot was in essentially the German FOURTH Division, and has done little to merit a full-time slot in the 1st Bundesliga, even for Hamburg. There is promise though, but it has yet to be realized.
But in all fairness, he need to be given a shot, and I think BM loaning him was a good move as he was way short of making a spot on their first team, and Im sure they thought Hamburg should have been a good fit.
But a team, that is struggling like Hamburg, just to win a few games and avoid relegation, is not a good atmosphere unless the coach is willing to take chances with new and young players. Unfortunately this is not the case. In most loans there are clauses that allow a team to terminate a loan and bring the player back. Let’s hope BM can execute that clause and end a bad situation
bottlcaps,
What you failed to mention was that Hamburg’s manager, the guy who probably green lighted this on Hamburg’s side got axed shortly after Green got there;
This is a sure fire way to sabotage a loan or a transfer. It happened to Mikey ( Villa), and Edu and Shea ( Stoke ). And i’m sure it has happened to others. In Green’s case he also got hurt soon after arriving.
Hamburg is a house on fire right about now and I’m sure they have bigger fish to fry than worrying about some Bayern prospect who needs PT.
LOL
Supposed to bea reply to Falcao
That’s what he gets. He should have never aired his dirty laundry on facebook. The teams owes him nothing except a chance to improve and earn a spot in the starting lineup, even if it means spending time with the U21s. He should be grateful instead showing his sense of entitlement. The day he decided to play for the US instead of Germany we should have known he ‘s just not mentally strong enough.
I agree with the premise of your argument (that players should earn their way), but disagree in this instance. Green was loaned from the Bayern reserves to Hamburg to get more playing time and coaching at the highest level. When he was sent down at Hamburg, he was sent down to the same league he was playing in with the Bayern reserves. Why waste time in another system at the same level of play when he could have just stayed at Bayern?
I’m betting Bayern management told Green to do this so Hamburg would either send him back up (unlikely), or release him back to Bayern. This smacks more of a misunderstanding at the management level between the two clubs than anything Green specifically did, but that is just my speculation.
that seems about right. i guess hamburg didn’t want Green in their rotation.
Playing for the reserves is better than not playing at all. If he goes back to Bayern he CANNOT play for the first team nor the reserves until he transfers back in the next window so he goes from being able to play for the U23s to not being able to play anywhere. GREAT MOVE!
“he CANNOT play for the first team nor the reserves until he transfers back in the next window”
with all due respect to your capital letters, that’s just not true. it’s not unusual for a loan to be terminated, for various reasons. the players then are eligible to play for the club that owns them.
I wonder if his thinking is, if I’m going to play for a second team I’d rather just go back, train and play for Bayern’s.
With all due respect to your due respect. We shall see if he gets playing time with any of Bayern’s teams. He will not, and if he’s engineering a move back to Bayern then hes dumber than I thought. The best he can hope for is playing time with the U23 which is not as good as Hamburg’s and it doesn’t come with a shot to making the first team.
I seriously think he’s still taking football advice from his father.
all Nate D was saying was that he CAN play for Bayern if his loan is terminated before next transfer window……
+ 1
Everything else you said was just opinion – which is cool and all, but Nate was challenging what you presented as a fact.
Plus I’d add, with Rummenigge’s statement of course Green plays with at least one of Bayern’s teams when he comes back. Why wouldn’t he? Spite?
Falcao, I know you are passionate about this, and I get that, but he’s a young kid and this will happen. It happened to JAB and look at him now. Chillax.
I am literally scratching my head, trying to figure out the mentality of someone obtuse enough to actually write this.
How on Earth do we get there? The kid basically got demoted after he got injured, was never even given a chance on the field, and he should be “grateful” for an opportunity he never got because Hamburg is an absolute mismanaged dumpster fire in the drop zone right now?
And he’s “mentally weak” for grabbing a golden ticket to a World Cup? Wow. I kinda thought that’s what soccer players live for.
quozzel,
Green has always been a stand in for people who hate JK.
If Green fails, JK also fails.
There is the suspicion that JK used Green to bump LD from the squad. Of course, if AJ wasn’t there chances LD might have been more likely to make the squad but Green has that German background while AJ has an Icelandic one, far less incendiary in the SBI world.
And AJ looks like Kevin Bacon so he is alright for the same reason Mix is okay i.e. his wavy hair.
If Green fails badly JK’s detractors will revel in that. Landon will be cleansed in Julian’s blood so to speak. And then JK will have been proven wrong about leaving LD behind. Or something along those lines.
come on GW, JK has already been proven wrong about LD…has nothing to do with Julian Green although discussions about his inclusion bring their own questions.
you disagree with this? if so, please explain it to us
I’m sorry. How was JK “proven wrong” about LD? As far as I can see, his decision to not bring LD has not been “proven wrong” at all. If anything, JK showed that we can clear a very difficult group without LD, and the decision was entirely vindicated.
Where is the “proof” here?
The moment Brad Davis took the field to start the Germany game JK was proved wrong about Donovan. Davis starting at left midfield came about from an entirely predictable set of circumstances (i.e. it was not as a result of a bunch of fluke injuries or the like), and there is no possible argument on this green earth that Davis was a better option than Donovan for that role in that game.
Not to re-argue this for the 8 millionth time (and for the record, I probably would have taken Donovan over Davis based on talent alone), but I fail to see how anything about Brad Davis actual performance indicated anything positive or negative about his selection. You argument as to why Klinsmann was proven wrong about about Donovan can’t be Brad Davis’s mere existence
if you don’t get it yet, you never will
What a load of nonsense. beachbum, use your words, and tell us how he has been proven wrong about LD.
I use my eyes
I am as big a follower of Landon Donovan as anyone. But I don’t think that Klinsmann was proven wrong for not bringing Donovan.
Fact is that he made it to the knockout stage without LD. Not really a “Group of Death” in my opinion. At least not with a Cristiano Ronaldo at about 75% effectiveness. However, he got the team to it’s expected result. No problems there.
That being said, I am 100% convinced that the USMNT would have been more competitive against both Germany and Belgium with LD there.
I appreciate your response, thanks. your take that you are 100% convinced that the USMNT would have been more competitive says it all imo.
whether other choices taken were either later shown to be not fully fit (Aron), not ready (Green), or not able (Davis) but were chosen instead is the proof for me, along with LD going off in 2013 for the USMNT (8 goals, 8 assists in arguably his best season in the uni) and then in MLS in 2014.
I know some will not agree.
hope to see you posting here more even in disagreement. cheers
I appreciate your perspective. LD is a fine player and when he is in the form he reached in August he is probably among our most talented attacking players even still.
I can’t “prove” we had a better side without Landon (in fact, I’d suggest we probably had less talent and certainly less experience without him).
But that doesn’t “prove” its a mistake. Far from it. One could just as easily suggest it “proves” JK was able to phase out soon-to-be-expiring assets and begin effecting an inevitable personnel/culture transition without sacrificing results.
Really, to say anything has been “proven” one way or another is illogical… because you can never know what would happen in the alternate situation.
What would happen if LD had played instead of Brad Davis against Germany? Well, for starters, you have to assume that LD would have been the one to take this role (there is an active debate about who actually took LD’s “spot” .. some say Green or Wondo… back in the pre-hindsight era names like Yedlin and Brooks were also bandied about).
Would anything have changed in the Germany game if Donovan rather than Davis has come in to spell Bedoya?
Doubtful… due the waterlogged pitch created by the torrential rain that had plagued Recife for days, as well as the fact that both teams were heavily incentive to play conservatively, the game was perhaps among the most ugly and forgettable at the entire tournament. Davis was among about 17-18 players in both shirts who contributed to But the job got done, and nobody got hurt in a high-stakes swamp fight against the best team in the tournament.
Beglium? I really doubt having an attacking mid (even a top-class counter-attacker like Donovan) on the bench would made a meaningful difference when our problems started so much deeper down the pitch. We were pinned in our own end for long stretches because our brave but blue-collar defense couldn’t play the ball into our technically overmatiched DM’s feet under pressure. We still can’t, for that matter, but it’s clear that this has become item #1 on JK’s “wish list” after the World Cup
Who can know what Donovan would’ve added? Wondo had a stinker, but Green played his limited part perfectly. Are these the guys we are using to justify LD’s inclusion? How about somebody else? Indeed, De-Andre Yedlin may actually be the more relevant “what-if” comp for LD here. (as it’s entirely possible that LD would’ve been the one to come on for FJ after his early injury (with Cameron slotting back to RB). And few would dispute Yedlin did a superb job shacking Hazard and giving us outstanding opportunistic runs forward. Could Landon have done this? Sure, maybe.
I make no such claim– I only hate to see the word “proven” used here. The omission does not appear to have materially affected our overall finish in the tourmament, yet gave us a chance to try things that would inevitably be required in subsequent years, and gave our group the confidence that we could achieve in the post-Donovan era.
“Life without LD” is a reality we were always going to face during 2014, regardless of the manager. I missed LD in 2014– I’d looked forward to seeing his final performance for years. JK made a decision that the time was now I was disappointed, but I also think the gamble may be something we view as a key accelerating step in our advancement.
Time will tell, but proof may be hard to come by, regardless of your view.
“JK has already been proven wrong about LD”
Yeah? How so?