Photo by Kirby Lee/USA Today Sports
By RYAN TOLMICH
For U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Jurgen Klinsmann, the goal scored by Jordan Morris was much more than just a game-winner; it was a message.
Just 20 years old and a student-athlete at Stanford University, Morris led the way for the U.S. in last week’s 2-0 victory against Mexico, becoming a symbol of Klinsmann’s foundational beliefs of young talent in the process. A contributing member to the USMNT despite his status as an amateur, Morris is Klinsmann’s embodied demonstration in the belief that talent can come from any place at any time, whether an MLS veteran or a college student.
Klinsmann now wants Morris’ emergence to serve as an example to each and every player in the U.S. pool, from the senior team all the way down to the youth level. For Klinsmann, it doesn’t matter where you ply your trade on the club level as long as you can demonstrate the consistency required to be a contributing member of the national team.
“When you develop players, with young players coming through the system, the youth system, and going into the Under-18s and Under-20s and then into the Olympic team at Under-23 years of age, you always kind of see the talent and the potential of a player,” Klinsmann said. “If he’s playing that moment in an MLS club, in Mexico, in Europe or at a college club is not the key. The key is that he gets a feeling for what the demand is from me going forward.
“I think it’s a good signal to everybody that no matter where he plays that one thing is having the talent, which Jordan has, but the other thing is to prove that talent on a consistent basis in whatever environment that you are in,” Klinsmann said. “The National Team program has a little bit more freedom to do that and to give you a chance and to calculate the minutes that you are on the field than in your club team where you have to provide, week in, week out, at your highest level.”
Morris’ next stop will be at the Under-23 level, where the U.S. Under-23 Men’s National Team is set to take on Mexico this Wednesday in a friendly.
With Olympic qualifying just around the corner, Klinsmann knows that the opportunity is there to build something special, especially following the Olympic failures of recent memory.
Because of that, Klinsmann is hoping to build a strong foundation throughout the unit, one that can carry the team to next summer’s Olympic tournament in Rio de Janeiro.
“It’s very helpful to us that we have that game for the U-23’s coming up against Mexico at the StubHub Center on Wednesday because we need to urgently try and build this pool,” Klinsmann said. “We’re trying to build a team that is kind of getting together on every occasion possible and trying to find chemistry, trying to find a spirit in the group and you’ve got to get them hooked up with each other.
“It’s huge for us to get them that opportunity against Mexico’s U-23 and it’s a clear message to the players to take that opportunity because there are not many there before we have to play the qualifiers. If you want to go to Rio in 2016, you’ve got to show that to us right away.”
With that being said, Klinsmann wants these coming weeks and months to become an integral part of the growing process of young players throughout the pool. From the U-20s all the way up to the senior team, major tournaments are on the horizon, and with that major opportunities to prove yourself as a player on the international level.
Klinsmann wants his players to know that he is always watching, no matter the level, and that each and every player has the opportunity to earn himself a chance at a moment much like Morris’ against Mexico.
“It’s very, very important, especially the U-20’s that are now in camp, that they understand that we are watching them. We talk to each other,” Klinsmann said. “All of the coaches are connected and we talk about every talent coming through the ranks and we always try to find even more talent. They need to understand, int he very early stage of their career, that they are the drivers. They are the decision-makers. They have to make the right decisions on the field and also off the field.
“This is something that we tell our youth teams more and more: that they become personalities and take things in their own hands and that they become more accountable for what they’re doing. It’s a huge year for soccer with all of the different teams working on tournaments and big goals. It’s always important for us coaches to send them the same messages over and over again.”
Do your best every chance you get! Wow!! Who would have thought that was the key? In all my years of coaching, I have never thought to tell my players that or heard any other coach say it. What a revelation! If only I had known, we would have won some real silverware. I understand now why USSF brought Jurgen in to singlehandedly transform American soccer.
Seriously I see this as a very clever PR move by Jurgen. Unlike Jose or Arsene, he is safe from any sort of parody, because nothing could be more hilarious than the original. If USSF had real smarts, they would quickly come out with a line of t-shirts emblazoned with “Jurgen is watching!” and sell them to every aspiring soccer player in the country. Could be a real winner.
On a more serious note, it turns out that the fitness methods used by the German national team over the last decade were American in origin and that key members of the fitness staff (or whatever they call them in Germany) were Americans. (Perhaps everyone else already knew this!?!) Sort of complicates the notion that in hiring Jurgen we were tapping into some sort of Germanic mysteries and that Jurgen is a soccer Siegfried come to rescue American soccer.
Take a look at Bayern’s injury list and the resignation of their team doctor. .
Relevance?
Take a look and see.
holy sh!t, y’all went off the rails here. the biggest mistake that most of you are making is taking seriously anything that klinsmann says.
That is the most sensible thing you’ve ever posted.
/takes a bow
Well deserved, seriously.
It’s gotten to the point where it’s pointless to even listen to anything Klinsmann says anymore since if you wait a minute, he will say something else that contradicts what he has previously said. I think his mouth and brain are not strongly connected.
Just as bad are the forums like this one that cut him an infinite amount of slack on anything he says or does. Will JK cut off media access to anybody that says anything critical about him, his quotes or how he’s managing our teams? Certainly seems so
That bull about talent coming from anyplace at any time and in fact, the whole article is JK nonsense. How exactly did the Morris emergence happen? Was he on JKs radar, did one of our crack scouts discover him? NO it was a chance scrimmage between Stanford and the NATS where he showed well. Total blind luck and nothing more. So I guess one could say that talent can come from any place at any time if you’re lucky enough to get noticed during a scrimmage.
Maybe if JK and company spent more time looking at American youth players rather than beating the bushes for the end result of a weekend pass in Germany, he’d find more guys like Morris. ANd these American youth players arent all in the NAT system and they don’t all live west of the Rockies either
What’s wrong with being lucky?
If you were looking for the most talented USMNT eligible players you could find to play NOW or more likely, in 2018 in Russia, where would you look?
Mercer Commmunity College? Philadelphia Textile?. The Rail Hawks? U Conn?
Maryland? or the Bundesliga 1 and 2? By the way you don’t have to limit yourself.
I think I may be dumber after reading the comments here.
I think you’ve bottomed-out
My comment about Klinsi denigrating Deuce’s 7 seasons in the EPL is awaiting moderation.
You mean the Deuce he appointed team captain?
Yes.
I wish there could be one article about Klinsmann where the first post wasnt about donovan. I feel like the only way to get past this issue is to hand each of these trolls a shot glass full of AIDS and wait about 10 years or so.
If I was the coach I wouldnt have even invited him to camp. You want to skip out on me trying to build this team up and get through qualifying just to swoop in at the end and squeek by based on a life time achievement award? Screw you buddy. Anyone with some dignity, repect for his other players and a little sense of pride would have done the same thing. This would apply to any player pulling that crap and if you honestly think you would have done diffetently your a complete sellout or just being dishonest with yourself.
Where was Timmy Chandler then? He disappeared for a full year, then showed up just in time for the World Cup. Donovan played every time he was called in from that summer on. Gold Cup, qualifers against Costa Rica, Mexico, Jamaica, then went to train in Brazil during January camp.
Chandler went to Honduras decided he didn’t like and got his club to say he was injured walking off the field every time a call up came. He really helped us too, where Beasley had to play every second in Brazil.
You have no idea what happened with Chandle.
If JK bought Chandler’s story , and it is JK’s butt on the line, then I see no reason why you should not buy it too unless you know something everyone else does not.
Besides, he reality is LD is a far bigger deal than Chandler. No one gives a s==t about timmy. but LD’s, I am bigger than the team ‘tude, had the potential to be far more disruptive.
If indeed such a ‘tude existed, You have no idea what happened with LD
LZ,
True, but before the Brazil WC, Landon was quoted on record to a much , much greater extent as to his attitude towards his participation with the USMNT, than Timmy c. ever was.
So if we want to gauge his attitude, we all have a lot more to look at from LD than we ever did from Timmy. ,
Agree, Jack.
It is amazing how upset people seem to get about this subject.
the kid nicely finished the golden one-on-one chance that dropped in his lap, but COME ON. he looked lost and out of place most of the night. Remember when he ran to the end-line with the ball and then fell out of bounds while the ball remained in play? Remember the mistimed runs and bad touch? He has a very, very long way to go before being worthy of even an average level international
Can he improve upon his performance? Absolutely, I’d expect tha tof him, but to label his performance a “success” based on a flukey deflection leading to a goal?-that is the reason why US soccer fandom is stuck in this pathetic cycle of perpetual disappointment with young phenoms-an initial lucky break is hailed as “skill”-then then flukey performance is counted upon for consistent repetition-then disappointment-then more disappointment-then flat out, given up bust, then redemption as a “veteran”, then onto the next phenom-and I’m talking about Benny’s golazo vs Mexico in 2007, Shea’s streak down the left side setting up Rogers in 2011 versus Mexico, Agudelo vs South Africa-and on and on and on (ahem….Adu)
Blokhin you’re being way too logical here. This is a USMNT comment section, which means anyone that scores a single goal is considered the greatest of all time or if you don’t want to get TOO carried away, has the potential to be the greatest of all time. People that want nuance and the bigger picture need not apply.
I think you should go back and watch the game again. He didn’t really look lost at all to me, he made great runs most of the night, it was just the final ball that let him down, and that’s about all that you got right. He even showed great strength and held up the ball a couple times with a defender on his back and made the outlet pass. There is really nothing more you could have asked this kid to do in his first start
There’s this thing they say can’t be taught…it’s called speed. That’s what Morris has going for him. Look where its taken Yedlin…
And btw I completely disagree with this assessment of Morris game. He made intelligent runs, pressed, even held the ball up well at times. If anything I was shocked by how well he fit among this level of internationals.
+1
Yyyyyeah, I am not sure which game you watched, but Morris’ game was not as bad as you made it to be. Is he a finished product? By no means. But he was very, very impressive. He has the size, the speed and can finish (as he showed), yes. But his movement and positioning caused that back line trouble all night – go back and watch what he was doing.
In addition to that Zardes had a great night too. Yes, he didn’t score and he and Morris had chemistry issues (which is to be expected) but his hold up play allowed Morris to torment the back line. It was very impressive stuff, actually.
No one is crowning the kid as THE NEXT, but pretending he was horrible on the night (or worse yet – making stuff up) just to appear to demonstrate levelheadedness is kind of unfair…at best.
Just saw the Under 23 game vs. Mexico.
The kid has speed. He is fearless. He is persistent. He is athletic and strong and appears to have a low center of gravity.
These are “natural attributes”. He appears to have a good natural aptitude for the game because he moves off the ball very well. This will only imporve with time and experience.
The biggest thing about him is given where he is right now, his upside is quite high and he plays a position of need.
Caution is always a good idea but this kid looks very good.
Jesus Christ, people. Jurgen Klinsmann is trying to find talent at every corner, because there IS. Just because people aren’t playing pro doesn’t mean they can’t become good players. Player development is about a player’s maturity, and in large party about who they are. That’s why so many first round picks don’t pan out. By giving Morris the chance to prove himself – which he did – Klinsmann is giving encouragement to the entire age group by saying no matter where you are you have the potential. Morris is making a good life decision to stay in Stanford for the time being… if he gets a certain amount of credits he can return when he’s older. That’s completely understandable to anyone with common sense. It’s not YOUR life. It ain’t about you.
And for the love of God, Klinsman doesn’t hate MLS either. Evidence: he loves Beckerman, keeps calling Wondo, plays Besler over European players, etc. Plays Gonzo over players playing in Europe. It’s just simple reality that MLS isn’t on par with the top leagues in the world. It’s not disrespectful to say that. Playing with the best possible will make you a better player. It’s as simple as that, and people are getting OVERLY defensive. I defend MLS a lot, it’s a solid, underrated domestic league. There is quality, and you have to be very fit to play here. But it’s not EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A when it comes to quality. Klinsmann would RATHER have his top players playing in Europe, but that doesn’t mean he won’t play the best talent in front of him.
Your reasonable and well articulated replies are unwanted here…The appropriate responses are listed below:
1. Jurgen, SHUT UP you hypocrite!
2. ‘Merikans Only!
3. I know you are, but what am I?
and did I mention … ‘Merika!
haha +1, well put, steamrolling. I commented on a similar notion, unknowingly, a few comments up. people take things as so A or Z instead of a rational grey M in the middle, lol. saying the “MLS isn’t as good of a challenge for players” is not saying “i won’t call you up if you play in the MLS”; JK isn’t contradicting himself, folks…
listen… its ‘Murica” not Merika… you slav bastard!
Dont blame Jesus, i dont think JK listens to Him either. 🙂
Morris is making a poor career decision (soccer career anyway) by not playing professionally. And the national team isn’t where you develop players. They’re supposed to be ready contribute at international level when they step on the field.
And JK can’t criticize MB for returning to MLS (for 6 times the salary btw) and yet say it doesn’t matter where you play and pick college players and NASL players for the national team.
I suppose that approach might work…in Germany, or Brazil…you know, somewhere where you have an extremely large player pool of International-level players, where you can just cherry-pick the very best and they’ll be better than anybody else’s best 11.
If your player pool is not that player pool – and ours assuredly is not – what do you do?
YOU DEVELOP THEM. You go forth, scout, watch film, cast out your recruiting net, and you find guys you think have the physical talent and mentality to improve dramatically. Then you throw them into the deep end against teams like Chile, in Chile, Colombia (in England), Denmark (in Vikingland), and Switzerland in Switzerland. You play Mexico in front of 60,000+, on a non-FIFA date, in a San Antonio stadium where you know there’s going to be 80% Mexican fans.
Talent, as they say, will always trump experience…if you’re a good enough judge of talent, and you are willing to give that talent some experience. Bill Walsh, the former head coach of the 49ers and arguably the best judge of talent in NFL history, once said, rather famously, that you could go into the stands and pick a better team than you had on the field…if you were a good enough judge of talent. Probably a stretch…but still an interesting thought.
Jordan Morris got one goal – one! – against Mexico. What will that one goal – and that demonstration of his speed, which troubled top Mexican professionals all night – do for his confidence and career trajectory? Every coach and sporting director in the US and Mexico watched Morris on Wednesday…it would in no way whatsoever shock me if, say, some Liga MX team came in with an offer for Morris…because if his pace and energy was giving a Mexican B/C team of Internationals trouble, he can almost certainly play in Liga MX. (I wouldn’t recommend it, because I doubt he’d flourish immediately, if at all, as a gringo in a very cutthroat, very unforgiving league, which Liga MX is, but that’s what doors that one opportunity may have opened for him.) But now Morris has some name recognition…and has definitively established he’s got the raw talent. What’s going to follow for him is even more opportunities. Yeah, it’s probably going to be a 2-3-year process (or more) before he’s truly ready to contribute regularly for the USMNT…but that one opportunity surely did jump-start his career. Klinsmann obviously knows this…which is why Morris is also on the most-recent U23 roster.
And what about Julian Green, everybody’s favorite whipping boy despite the fact that he scored for us on his FIRST TOUCH in Brazil? Yes, yes…he’s struggling in the Bundesliga right now. He’s squabbling with Hamburg about playing on their U23 squad. Big deal. Fighting your way onto the field for Bayern – or even a Hamburg squad fighting relegation – is almost impossible…even if you’re a young rising star in the Bayern U23 team. The odds are definitely against you…especially since it’s so much easier for a big-money team – or a relegation-threatened team that can’t afford a young guy’s slip-ups – to just buy somebody else’s finished product than take their lumps with a young guy who will have his inevitable ups and downs and make his inevitable mistakes. Endemic problem of both all truly elite club squads AND teams fighting relegation, which is why so lamentably few youth products from first-division academies ever wind up in their starting 11’s. (All Euro leagues gripe about this.) They just don’t have the games to give their young guys…not when every game they play is a must-win for these squads. But now, thanks to that opportunity with the World Cup squad in Brazil…Julian Green now has OPTIONS. If it doesn’t work out in the Bundesliga, there’s a dozen MLS squads that would take a risk on Green right now as a DP…probably not a $3-million-a-year DP, but somebody would surely invest in him. His career path has some…doors open now, which drastically increases the chances of him finding that right situation, of getting games, and getting better…meaning, the odds of him emerging as that polished product we all want him to be in the next 3 years are vastly better than they were. Because of that one opportunity. Would we have ever seen, or even heard of, Julian Green if Klinsmann had just passively waited for nature to take its course, and seen if he somehow fought his way up on his own? I doubt it. But the kid has some name recognition now, and some advocates who very much have a vested interest in furthering his development and getting him opportunities…wherever those opportunities happen to be.
WE DO NOT HAVE THE PLAYER POOL TO JUST SELECT AND WIN. PERIOD. If you take that approach, you wind up starting Jonathan Bornstein as your left back in the World Cup because he’s the best left back you happen to have in the pool at the moment. Or you wind up starting Robbie Findley at forward – with zero International caps, I seem to recall – because Charlie Davies got in a car crash and you just didn’t hadn’t developed any other options. Klinsmann did not take that approach. He recycled the oft-maligned Damarcus Beasley, pulled him off the remainded-seconds pile, and converted him to left back. And Beasley held up, shockingly well, through the entire tournament in Brazil…despite the fact that every team we played perceived him as the weak link (incorrectly, as it happened) and tried to target him. Klinsmann’s doing the same thing as we speak with the oft-maligned Brek Shea. The last image I remember of Shea was him stealing the ball from a Mexican winger on the press, dribbling to the corner flag, and running out the clock while the Mexican team watched helplessly. So something’s working in that approach….
If anyone reads that wall of text all the way through, you have my respect.
Read it and respect it.
ditto
Bill Walsh drafted QB Giovanni Carmozzi (sp?) when he could have drafted Tom Brady.
Everyone , even the best, makes mistakes. Even big mistakes.
+1
+ 1
Steamrolling, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I personally think you are arguing something that’s beside the point.
To me this is all about Jurgen being Jurgen and constantly BS’ing us and contradicting himself. It’s that simple. That’s why fans get annoyed at him. First its, “you have to push yourself to the highest level and go to Europe” and then its “it doesn’t matter where you play”. Bottom line is he should just come out and say the truth which is, he has different rules for different players, and stop with all the nonsense he says to the press.
All that other stuff you brought up about JK hating or not hating MLS, or looking to develop talent, or Morris staying or not staying in college, is beside the point.
“To me this is all about Jurgen being Jurgen and constantly BS’ing us and contradicting himself. It’s that simple. That’s why fans get annoyed at him. First its, “you have to push yourself to the highest level and go to Europe” and then its “it doesn’t matter where you play”.”
this whole you’re missing the simple point: those aren’t mutually exclusive. he wants all the players to strive for england. maybe current situations mean some will be playing in MLS, that wouldn’t be “ideal” for JK but he understands the instances for each player individually. that’s not contradicting. So it doesn’t matter where you play as long as you’re pushing yourself to get to that level.
Yedlin- JK never said “i’m not going to pick you while you’re at seattle, u need to go to to europe to play, then ill call you up.” it didn’t matter where Yedlin played, JK saw a talent and saw a player that was pushing himself to hopefully make it to europe, etc.
MB- JK never said “MB if you come back to MLS i won’t play you.” it didn’t matter where MB played. JK saw a talent in a player who had already played for a top team in Italy and, albeit he didn’t agree with the decision, he understood that it made sense for MB at this point in his life with hi family, etc. Sure, JK would have rather MB push himself in europe with another team; but that’s his job– to push his players and teach them to push themselves.
Clint- JK never said “Clint if you come back to MLS i won’t play you.” it didn’t matter where Clint played. JK saw a talent in a player who had already played for a couple teams in the EPL and proved himself. He understood that he was getting older and financially a move to MLS made sense for him specifically. JK did prefer that clint stayed overseas but understood and respected the decision. so JK both “wanted clint to keep challenging himself in europe” but it also “didn’t matter where he played” (for different reasons for each player).
I could go on with more examples but i hope you get the point. It’s like you’re trying to argue that “it’s A or B” when the answer’s as simple as just “True”, lol
let me just simplify all that:
a coach pushing a player (“i want you to push yourself to play in europe”)
is SEPARATE and not contradictory with
evaluating a player (“it doesn’t matter where you play”)
If Klinsmann were to say that the world is round, a lot of people here would complain because it isn’t a perfect sphere. Another bitg complaint is that he’s not consistent. Welll, consistent how? Not every national team experience is the same. Rules for some games, as far as selectio0n goes, are a lot different from other games.And how many here are 100% consistent in what they say? Morris got a shot because both Jozy and Dempsey we4r5e unavailable, Aj was in Europe, and Wondo had some issues. That doesn’t mean he'[s going to start in the Gold Cup. He was given a chance, that’s aall, and JK is using that as encouragement for other players, maybe including those who haven’t chosen what team they will play for. Finally, Zardes, who has played only in MLS, has played in each of the last 4 national team games and started vs. Mexico. So, why would he do that if he is thumbing his nose at MLS or wanting to play those with no pro experience? It’s obvious that Zardes is ahead of Morris in the pecking order.
+1
but:
“If Klinsmann were to say that the world is round, a lot of people here would complain because it isn’t a perfect sphere.”
technically, the complainers would be similarly wrong, as in this thread. “round” doesn’t necessarily have to refer to a perfect sphere. (much like the complainers in this thread fail to realize JK isn’t contradicting himself. lol)
I went to read this article, thinking I would be totally annoyed at whatever JK had to say.
IF we believe him, than I am not annoyed.
IF not, completely annoyed.
“For Klinsmann, it doesn’t matter where you ply your trade on the club level as long as you can demonstrate the consistency required to be a contributing member of the national team.”
That’s nonsense. He constantly complains about MLS and US players coming back to MLS from Europe. And his grudge against LD, which led him to pick a less than full strength team for the World Cup, stems in large part from his view that Donovan didn’t challenge himself at a higher level in his club career.
Oh, a Landon Donovan reference. This should be incredibly original and provide new insight to the nonsensical debate one side routinely wants to have and appears incapable of moving on.
Let’s routinely avoid the elephant in the room: Landon Donovan looked and was playing like crap before the World Cup and in MLS (please re-read until it soaks in: pre-World Cup, not post-World Cup). Largely because of his sobatical where he was rarely/if not ever available to the United States in qualifying. For good measure, go back and watch him “attack” Rafa Marquez in the Mexico friendly. He looked like a shell of himself and admitted he wasn’t willing to put forth the requested effort in practice, wasn’t in his top form and appeared to have his own issues/grudge against the manager with backhanded comments in the media.
When you think you are above the team and the same rules don’t apply to you
When you think you’re entitled
When you don’t get along with the manager
When you take things for granted
…you get left at home. Regardless what your name, history or general legacy is.
Working your rear end off in practice and making an effort to be a good teammate (to your fellow players) and player (to your manager). Not because of the name on the back of the kit, but because of the crest on the front of it. Harsh reality that someone like Clint Dempsey avoided because he’s the antithesis of Landon Donovan.
When you walk away from the game, the game doesn’t stop moving for you but speaking of moving, far too many people need to move on. We’re tired of your nonsense.
so do you disagree with slowleftarm?
because, even though i pretty much disregard anything klinsmann says as “coach-speak”, this seemed like a glaring contradiction to me, too.
i thought he was pretty clear that he doesn’t want his players to get comfortable where they are, but instead be moving onward and upward. i’m okay with that, but now it seems that where you play doesn’t matter–the most important thing is consistent performance.
again, i think klinsmann usually just says whatever pops into his brain at the moment, but it certainly doesn’t make his comments exempt from criticism.
This argument is a non sequitur. Whether or not Klinsmann wants his players playing in Europe has nothing to do with where the best players happen to be. The argument is that for an individual player to improve he needs to be playing at the highest level. Bradley coming back to MLS will not force Bradley to improve like he would have to to keep his spot on Roma. But Klinsmann isn’t going to not pick Bradley, the best player in the US pool just because he came back to MLS. Calling Klinsmann a hypocrite saying he wants his players to challenge themselves but being forced to pick MLS players because that’s where the best players in the pool are is ridiculous.
Bradley needs to improve if he wants TFC to ever make the playoffs.
“This argument is a non sequitur.”
what argument? not entirely sure if you meant to respond to my comment, since i didn’t say anything about mls or europe.
my point was simply that klinsmann’s statements are pretty contradictory. but i wouldn’t call him a hypocrite, because that would assume he believes everything he spouts off in interviews.
It’s fine to say and believe that a player needs to play at the highest level he can to improve. It’s also ok to make that a criteria for selection. But then you can’t pick a college player who could, and should, be playing professionally somewhere.
College is an incredibly low level of soccer. There are thousands of college soccer players and maybe 10-15 at any given time that are capable of playing meaningful minutes in MLS. It’s great for players who can use soccer to earn a degree but not for players who want to make a living playing the game or who want to play for the national team.
Slow,
No offense, your statement does not make any sense.It is a non sequitur! It does not logically follow from the previous statement.
Encouraging players to play at the highest level that they can play is COMPLETELY different from (and consistent with) saying he will find new talent wherever you play. He picks the players that add the most to the team or have the best skill sets to excel at an elite level. He is saying find the players that have the ability to excel at the international stage no matter where they play. Of course, when he does, he will encourage them to challenge themselves.
He is not going to stop picking Bradley or Clint or Jozy even though they can all play at a higher level than MLS, but have the ability to excel against elite players. In the same breath, he is not going to pick Lichaj or Ream or Kljestan even they play(ed) at higher levels if he does not think that they have the ability to excel against ELITE international level.
I’m still kinda waiting on a response about how college soccer has damaged our top prospects. Because when I look at our “best ever players” who have competed successfully and with longevity in European club soccer, I see a LOT of guys with at least some college soccer on their resume (Keller, Friedel, Cherundolo, Lalas, Lewis, Moore, McBride, Bocanegra, Guzan, Cameron, Edu, Holden, Parkhurst, Bradley, Dempsey, Bedoya… this list goes on… ) pretty much everybody we have who has been long-term successful in Europe did at least some college soccer. Great club players. Great USMNT players.
Compare that against the notable European flameouts (Thorrington, Adu, Shea, Agudelo, and yes, Donovan) and it’s almost freaky how poorly they have done compared to their counterparts who spent time at college. DMB is pretty much the lone example of a US born-and-raised guy who went to Europe without college and succeeded.
What gives?
Bradley, Altidore, Magee, and E. Gavin did not play college soccer. (All of them started with the Metrostars/RedBull). I am not sure if that necessarily helped or hurt their soccer (probably Altidore would have been so physically intimidating in college and used that to the detriment of developing any skill that it may well have hurt him. For the others, it is a simply a path not taken.)
People keep saying Altidore is so physically huge and intimidating but he is not. I saw him at a practice session. He is bigger but he is not so physically intimidating. he is not Romelu Lukaku. He is not even Drogba size. The guy is 6’1″ and probably 190. Not huge. He would not have “intimidated a lot of college defenders. He does not defend a lot of professional defenders. He is strong or rather he “looks” strong.
Re: Jozy’s intimidating size.
I remember reading a comment years ago from Leo Messi, where he was impressed by Jozy’s physique.
Of course, I ‘m betting you are probably physically imposing compared to Leo. who proves every game day that size isn’t everything.
i am glad you were able to rant about donovan. feel better now?
Also, you left a couple items off your list:
-When you think you are above the team and the same rules don’t apply to you
-When you think you’re entitled
-When you don’t get along with the manager
-When you take things for granted
-*When you’re a proven game-changer*
-*When you’re better than evans or wondolowski*
really, your ‘list’ should have been:
-When you don’t get along with the manager
because, in essence, that’s all it was.
I don’t know of many managers who will pick someone who doesn’t follow his directions. Bill Walton tells the story about how he approached Coach Wooden one year before the season and told the coach he wanted to grow a beard, even though that was against team rules. Remember Walton was the best player in the country at the time. Without batting an eye, Wooden said, We’re really going to miss you, Bill.” Needless to say, Walton didn’t grow the beard.
yeah, wooden doesn’t come off looking great in that one.
I think you’re missing Gary’s point.
Klinsmann INVITED LD back…what part of this do you and Old School and others not understand???
and then once INVITED back, LD delivered big time for Jurgen.
then Jurgen spitefully dropped him anyway at the expense of the TEAM
only the super unable cannot understand this reality at this point. and you defend it…still. pathetic
I still think LD was left off the roster because his diet leading up to the World Cup selection appeared to include a dozen donuts for lunch everyday. Klinsmann has always expected his players to be in top shape, especially for the WC. LD’s shape, literally, was a little more round at the time of World Cup selection than the previous year for the Gold Cup.
You keep saying he spitefully dropped him. Do you have some inside information that we do not have? Would I have brought LD? Yes. Do I think that JK dropping LD was spiteful? NO! He told him he would have to earn his way back – after he took a sabbatical without discussing it with JK. He left off A-teams call ups, but brought him with the B-team in a B-team Gold Cup (Mexico didn’t bring their A-team). He did well. Invited him to some A-team games after that. Then he invited him to the World Cup national team camp despite him stinking it up in the MLS before that (look at his pre-World Cup camp MLS season). He then went public and stated that he cannot go all out during this tournament and training. Why would I bring you if you are not all bought it.
No one is questioning LD’s ability or stature among the USMNT elite. What I questioned (and probably JK) was whether he was “all-in” in his attitude before the WC. The sad part is his rejection proved a motivation AFTERWARDS!
In one sense it is amazing that we continue to argue about Jurgen’s treatment of Donovan. What is left to be said? On the other hand, that the argument continues does reflect on Jurgen. If Jurgen’s job is to boost the national team in every aspect, including Donovan, even if he were completely infirm, would have been a shrewd PR movement, a real “feel good” gesture that would have cost almost nothing. The last player selected for a national team is nearly always just along for the ride. Including Donovan could have signaled respect for his accomplishments over the years. And I can’t believe that I am agreeing with Ray Hudson, but folks other than Jurgen, like Ray, immediately picked up on this. So instead of a feel good moment, we have this prolonged grumpiness around the national team. Perhaps not the slickest move.
If you are thinking of this issue in terms of “the judgment of history” then you should really wait a little while, probably until JK’s time as USMNT manager is done.
The repercussions of the LD exclusion, positive and negative, are still being felt and will be for some time.
Its easy to pick apart Donovan but at the end of the day 2 words destroy any argument in not taking him……Brad Davis
I am surprised by many that obviously have played the game and some even cosched the game seem to completely disregard chemistry issues. as i read comments about the LD sabatical, as a former coach(not soccer) i read that there was underlying resentment or maybe frustration is a better word. The fact that he came in out of shape and out of form, completely trump the Brad Davis thing for me. I agree Davis was ill equipped to help tne team on the field. But maybe and nobody know for sure, LD would have been a huge problem in the locker room. Would he have been able to come in as a late sub and be happy. Probably not. And until
Jozy went down (un foreseeable) that was his role.
Yes you need to have contingencies, but not at expense of team chemistry. Maybe i am way off and it was just personal. But i dont blame JK for saying the heck with you if you dont care about the team.
Byrdman, you can’t just make something up or assume something, and then use that as the basis of your argument. From everything we read (Tim Howard’s book) and saw in interviews after the Donovan omission, it seemed pretty clear that the veteran players we shocked and disappointed that Donovan was left off. Who on the team had more on-field chemistry with players like Altidore, Dempsey, Bradley, Beckerman, Beasley, etc. than Landon Donovan?
Your whole argument is bogus. This was a straight-forward Klinsmann vs Donovan thing. The other players had nothing to do with it.
Your forgetting the most important points (that have already been made):
1. Donovan’s form was very poor pre-World Cup
2. He admitted he couldn’t or wouldn’t train at the level of the rest of the team
JB, i was simply responding to Byrdman’s argument, which was that there would have been chemistry issues and other players resenting Donovan.
You are bringing up something different.
you’re forgetting 2 points
1. Klinsmann invited him back
2. he delivered big time for Jurgen
3. his form wasn’t poor like you say, it was rounding into shape…JUST LIKE HE HAD DONE FOR YEARS!!!
anyone who followed his career knew that about him. In fact, he played amazingly well in RSL up in the Rockies, going off late and showing the bursts and the skill…late in the game, up in the Rocky Mountains. Of course you don’t know that or you wouldn’t say that about his form
quit with the BS analysis and bring some reality…I’m daring you and the other Jurgen cronies here to do it.
fact is, Jurgen screwed the pooch on that one and those of you defending it are still screwing
Can we please stop talking about LD. Its over. He is retired. Find other things to hate on cuz haters gonna hate.
NC, in case you didn’t notice there is a thread of comments. The Donovan issue has been brought up and discussed (by someone who is not me), and I am responding to a specific comment made by someone (adding to the thread). If you don’t like the topic being discussed, you can ignore this comment thread and move on to another one. Or start your own.
Tim Howard’s book? Not exactly a bible to swear on.
Of course the guys you mentioned were probably upset, but they seem to have moved on very quickly.
I notice how Timmy was much more communicative and and considerate towards the national team when he took his ” sabattical”.
In any walk of life it always helps to be considerate of your peers and supervisors.
I forgot to mention that the sabbatical was a long time before the World Cup. Let’s not forget that Donovan played in the Gold Cup and was the best player in the tournament, and also played in some World Cup qualifiers, including scoring a goal to beat Mexico in Columbus.
Yes.
UBG,
The Gold Cup ? A JV team tournament that mostly mattered because it was the only competitive tournament the US had to practice in before Brazil?
A tournament that the US should have won with one hand tied behind their back?
Wondo scored 5 goals in the 2013 Gold Cup
LD scored 5 goals in the 2013 Gold Cup.
If anyone pointed to Wondo’s accomplishments in that tournament you would say
”Watered down JV tournament”, “ Means nothing, can’t score against the big boys”
LD scores 5 goals and you say:
“ He’s back!”, “Dominant performance”. “Look at how he gives his best for the USMNT”
What a crock of hypocrisy .
As for LD’s participation on the qualifiers, yeah he came in to fight the fire after it was already out and after the issue was largely settled.
The Mexico game was nice but Mexico was playing like dog poop and barely qualified and an honest person would say the Mexico game matter mostly because it was 2-0, Mexico.
I wanted LD in Brazil but he did everything in his power to say “ I want to go but only on my terms”.
That might have worked if he was the 2010 LD but he wasn’t that anymore.
The only person LD has to blame for his exclusion from Brazil is LD himself.
GW,
I will simply say I disagree. Of course the Gold Cup mattered. It’s the Gold Cup, the highest honor in Concacaf, and it was for a guaranteed playoff spot for the Confed Cup. If you want to call it a JV competition that’s your opinion and that’s fine. For that matter though we can label anything within Concacaf as JV level.
You are putting words in my mouth re-Wondo. Really I would say that? No I wouldn’t. I would say that instead of looking at the goals scored by both players, you actually look at the games. Anyone that saw the games would admit that Donovan was by far the class of the tournament. Better than Wondo and everyone else.
Basically you just down-played everything (both for Donovan and the Gold Cup and the very important Mexico vs USA qualifier) for the sake of your argument. All i can say is REALLY BRO?
Donovan was the class of the tournament?
Not really. He is the best US player who ever lived and I expected him to be ever more dominant than he was and he wasn’t.
The Donovan I knew would have blown that tournament wide open, which given that he knew he was under a microscope for the World Cup he should have done and he did not.
JK said that he was happy with Donovan’s Gold Cup performance.
In addition to himself, LD and his countrymen may also blame JK for not being manager enough to get the most out of “the best US player who ever lived”… In this respect coach really screwed the pooch
L Zeke,
You don’t think LD is the best US player who ever lived?
Who then?
If you had watched Landon for as long as I have then you would have known that Arena and Bradley got out of LD whatever he felt like giving. Fortunately for them he was mostly in a giving mood. But he had more than a few games where he mysteriously disappeared.
A lot of this “love” for LD is a reaction to JK’s “snub” and does not accurately reflect the ambivalent attitude many US fans had towards him during his prime. For example, “Landy cakes” was not a term of endearment.
It wasn’t that long ago that there was a very healthy debate on SBI as to who was better all time LD or Clint.
Most of the negative voters uttered sentiments essentially identical to what JK eventually said about LD. I don’t recall JK saying anything about LD, positive or negative, that had not been said by US fans before him.
Would JK have been a genius if he could have persuaded LD to turn it up a notch with the new guy coming in and all that? Sure. But as I recall LD seemed pretty far down another path by the time JK got the job.
Didn’t call u out UCLA I’m just saying stop talking bout LD in general
People talk about Brad Davis as a much bigger disaster than what it was. Guy played 45 mins on a monsoon-thrashed pitch against the best team in the world. Sure, Davis was weak, but he was hardly alone on that day, it was ugly on both sides. This was not the sort of match you’ll find on DVD’s of “classic World Cup matches” Bottom line is that the objective was achieved, and Bedoya got a little breather
that’s fine and dandy but imagine you give Bedoya a breather by playing LD (who’s a man on fire for not playing yet) vs Germany. I’m over the LD convo as a whole but you couldn’t convince me LD wouldn’t have done, if only slightly, better than brad davis; even assuming those were his only minutes.
That’s fine. But so what? As you’ve said, it’s an incredibly minor (and ultimately unprovable) difference you are talking about. It’s basically an academic dispute at that point.
And consider the other option. If he was indeed a “man on fire for not playing yet”, then you are effectively admitting that he cannot possibly be a non-factor in locker room chemistry. Can you imagine the ESPN coverage? Every time we went a goal down or were not scoring in any of the games, ESPN would’ve had a camera on LD”s brooding face…. every single comment/question would’ve been about “When will they bring on Donovan?”
How does this kind of theme affect a guy like Bedoya? …. can’t imagine it’s nearly as empowering as being told, “You are the guy. We are depending on you to get it done and we have 110% trust in you”. As opposed to… “You are just keeping LD’s seat warm until we decide to unleash him”.
This is why I’ve always thought….. if you bring LD, you bring him as a starter. Period. He’s not a role-player. Never has been, in his whole career. To assume a guy who has spent his entire pro (and amateur, and childhood) career as “the guy” on his team can suddenly develop this talent during his final time to shine globally is nuts, regardless of anything he might have claimed.
I would’ve been fine with LD being included. I love the guy. But I never bought into the “situational sub” bs. The guy is a starter, if he plays at all. That’s just the reality of that kind of player.
For what it’s worth (and it’s cool if you don’t believe me– it was kind of a weird situation), I was actually fortunate enough to have an audience with Claudio Reyna and Cobi Jones via my job in the weeks following “the decision”, and this was exactly their position on the matter. LD is a starter. He would always have been pushing to be a starter. And if he wasn’t part of the best XI, then bringing him at all would be a big risk.
fair enough but 2 things: bringing him and not starting him is far less of a polarizing bullet point for JK detractors than not bringing him at all. also, LD had made several statements leading up to the roster stating he was totally fine with coming off the bench. sure some of that could have been “PC-ness” to help his case to go, but they were generally said in the same interviews where he mentioned not being able to practice as much as the rest because he was “old” or however he put it. so he actually seemed to be fully into the “super sub” (rather than “situational sub”) role.
again, i’m truly neither here nor there in terms of judgement for that situation, but IMHO he surely could have helped more than he’d hurt. c’est la vie
Old School, I like how you go off on a Donovan rant, but conveniently ignore the main point of Slowleftarm’s argument, which is that JK is contradicting himself once again!
Typical SBI comment board tactics–> if you cant refute someones point, respond anyway but change the topic.
UBG,
That’s because JK is not contradicting himself.
He has always said he wants his players playing at the highest possible level because that would make it easier for them to play the way he wants to.
But if they can produce the goods on the field. in practice and in camp ( and of course none of us know what is going on there) then it is obvious JK will give you a shot and if you earn it is also obvious he will continue to give you a chance, hence Corona and Agudelo getting chances after long periods away.
After all, JK was pretty upset about Dempsey and Mikey coming back before Brazil but I notice he picked them anyway and made Clint captain.
JK knows that top players sometimes play at smaller pond clubs. He knew who Henrik Larsson was. Look him up. But JK also knows that is the exception not the rule, just like LD was the exception not the rule.
He even addresses this with Morris by saying that (if you bothered to read) that a player like him has the talent to play vs. a team like Mexico for a game or two but the true test is being able to produce that sort of performance against that level over a long period of time, like for example , over a club season at a high level team.
Obviously, both Morris and JK know he isn’t going to be able to keep performing like this if he stays at Stanford.
While the difference in level is not so stark, this pretty much describes the situation facing most of the US player pool.
Unlike big boy teams like Germany, Spain and the Netherlanbds, the USMNT does not have one single player who has the benefit of being a regular on one of the top club teams in Europe.
With all due respect to certain USMNT players I don’t mean Stoke, Everton, Hannover 96, Schalke or Fulham.
I mean Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barca, and Juventus, teams that are usually always fighting for big time honors not JV type honors.
Does that mean the USMNT can’t beat Germany, Spain or the Netherlands?
No, but it would be a lot easier if we had more US players playing at those clubs.
That’s why Jones is so vital because he more than any other single USMNT player currently, can speak to what it takes to succeed at that level and he has the personality to get that across to the his team mates.
Dude you are going all over the place with this. You are trying to go too deep to explain things I already know. Of course JK still uses MLS players and the guys you named. If they are the best players then he has no choice but to use them, no matter what league they play in.
My comment was very simple and on the surface. Everything you wrote doesn’t refute what I am saying which is, JK is once again contradicting himself with his comments to the press. He does it all the time. “Push yourself to play in Europe – Doesn’t matter what league you play in” ; “You have to be starting – Except if you are Jozy and Julian Green” ; etc. etc. etc.
Point is that what Jurgen says and does are usually two different things.
You want it simple?.
JK never said he wouldn’t play you if did not play at the “highest level”.
So there is no contradiction.
He just said doing that would make it easier on you…
Ok, so you don’t think that JK contradicts himself with his comments to the press. Got it.
It’s amazing to me and I can’t believe you actually think that, but ok.
UB40, GW’s correct. Anthony mentioned it earlier as did a few others. it’s a relative parallel for each player. JK knows his top 30/40 or whatever and then looking individually he wants each of them to strive for their highest level, if they don’t it doesn’t mean he won’t choose them (unless that player is playing poorly, out of shape, a shell of their stellar/former self, etc)… JK is just looking to push players into challenging themselves fully.
UCBG,
“It’s amazing to me and I can’t believe you actually think that, but ok”
I am a fairly average American sports fan.
That means I get to see and read and hear a lot of managers in a wide variety of American sports say and do a lot things. For example, compare JK to an average NFL, NBA or college football or basketball coach.
I find him just as easy to follow and as transparent as those guys if not much more so in many cases.
If Bill Belichik were the USMNT manager do you think LD would have even gotten to the pre World Cup camp? And if he did not, do you think the Dark Lord would explain in great detail why he cut Donovan? With the Pats you do it his way or you are gone without explanation, legend or not.
I may have a bit of an advantage because I watched JK a lot as a player and I followed his teams very closely. The point being I have a pretty good idea of his attitude about and his views on soccer in general.
So his soccer decisions seem pretty straight forward to me.
For example, many of the teams he played on and the Germany he managed, had multiple players who played a variety of positions. JK’s 1990 World Cup winning team had a left back who was, guess what, a converted midfielder. They also fielded 4 center backs in the Final.
I remember being amused a few years ago when SBI fans reacted with searing outrage to the idea of Mo Edu playing center back. I thought it made perfect sense, should have happened a long time ago and frankly was not a big deal.
As far as I’m concerned the only reason Mo would not make a very good center back is if his heart wasn’t in it.
When JK says something you seem to take him literally down to the letter and when he does not do exactly what you SEEM to think he “promised”, you react with outrage. Obviously you feel entitled to your outrage but I never to expect as much as you seem to from sports team managers.
You seem to think a team manager is an omnipotent god when the reality is that, while JK is a powerful guy in the USSF world, he’s not omnipotent. There is only so much he can tell you because (a) he doesn’t know everything ( b) there is a lot it would be bad idea to make public.
BB was in the same spot.
In short, like any manager if you bother to research them a little bit, it gets a lot easier to follow their so- called logic. And again I really don’t care anyway because I only care about results and so far JK is doing very well in that area.