By IVES GALARCEP
With two days to let the disappointment of the U.S. Men’s National Team’s Gold Cup exit sink in, it’s time to take stock of the USMNT aftermath on the latest episode of The SBI Show.
Episode 224 of The SBI Show looks back at the USMNT’s shocking loss to Jamaica, and what it means going forward. We also discuss the stunning controversy surrounding Mexico’s victory against Panama.
Co-host Garrett Cleverly and I also preview MLS Week 21, and also catch up on the latest in U.S. Open Cup action, and MLS transactions.
This episode of The SBI Show is brought to you by Soccerloco.com, your source for all your soccer apparel and equipment needs.
Give Episode 224 of The SBI Show a listen after the jump:
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What did you think of the show? Who do you think deserves more blame for the USMNT Gold Cup exit, Klinsmann or the players? Will you be rooting for Jamaica on Sunday? Which MLS match are you most looking forward to?
Share your thoughts below.
Man, Garrett, that was pretty embarrassing. Maybe let Ives handle the punditry.
First, excellent show…
Second, I’m in Garrett’s corner on the Klinsmann argument. The coach gets some blame, but there was no reason that the lineup on the field couldn’t beat Jamaica. There was more than enough talent out there for the US to win. Jamaica was solid and it seems to me that the vitriol towards Klinsmann is again overblown. This is mostly because he “said” the goal was to win the Gold Cup, although there was an acknowledgement that we shouldn’t rely on what he says based on consistent past precedent. Seth on Goal.com gave a reasonable argument in his article for what I believe in general is why folks are not on board with Klinsmann and his methods…
MLS ALLSTARS, that are US players, the best MLS has to offer right now:
BELTRAN, Tony
BEASLEY, DaMarcus
GONZALEZ, Omar
MARSHALL, Chad
MOOR, Drew
TIERNEY, Chris
BRADLEY, Michael
FEILHABER, Benny
ZUSI, Graham
DEMPSEY, Clint
Top Player Statistics:
Assist:
Ethan Finlay (11)
Benny Feilhaber (10)
Clint Dempsey (6)
Goal leaders:
Chris Wondolowski (9)
Will Bruin (8)
Benny Feilhaber (7)
Clint Dempsey (7)
Charlie Davies (6)
Ethan Finlay (6)
How many of these players are ACTIVELY involved in the USMNT?
How can players be selected for MLS best and not even selected in Klinsmann 35 man roster?
How can 2 players that top the assist table, that are in the top ten of goals in the league (US POOLS) not even be selected for the National team?
Frank Lampard is injured and Dax McCarthy replaces him……why not Mix Diskerud, or Beckerman? Hhhmmmmm…….
Bruce and Bob never lost to Jamaica in qualifiers or Gold Cup., just to throw that out there.
Bruce and Bob never won in Jamaica. (BTW, Jamaica never had a great coach until Klinsmann’s era – Schafer is a huge step up from where they have been)
Bruce and Bob never beat Ghana.
Bruce and Bob never got out of the Group of Death
Bruce and Bob never won a game in the Azteca.
How long are you going to troll this site? I hope one day you mature enough to realize how much time you’ve wasted on a fan site of a team you don’t support. You spend so much effort creating shill accounts as your only form of self-approval, instead of spending your energy somewhere on a Mexican fan site where people might listen to what you have to say. En caso de que sea difícil de entender, también puedo escribir esto en español.
Just to throw that out there.
Bruce went to a World Cup quarter final, the only time the US has ever done that, and did it beating Mexico in a World Cup
Bob took the US to their only international final ever
just throwing that out there
* yes, the US came in third in 1930…a little different world back then, including the world of football.
We can go back and forth X number of times to find positives and negatives of both former and current USMNT coaches. Both of us will come up with facts. By the way, is the Gold Cup final not an international final? Perhaps you meant to say inter-confederation final.
To be clear, I think Klinsmann shares the blame equally with the players, and it is embarrassing that we lost to Jamaica at home in a tournament that we should have taken more seriously, as Ives alluded to.
However, the things that happened on this occasion don’t define the team and the overall direction of it in the long term. I share everyone’s disappointment, but I don’t believe this is the correct timepoint everyone should get wrapped up in trying to compare Klinsmann’s performance with Bob Bradley’s or Bruce Arena’s performances.
_If_ we do make it into the Confederations Cup, we will have to see how we perform there to even begin to compare Klinsmann to Bradley or Arena. If we don’t make it in, then the clear answer is that Klinsmann was worse.
As you say, this is a different world of football from 12 years ago. CONCACAF opponents can change for the better as well, and we have to take that into consideration.
Wrong in all aspects, including the accusations.
El Comandante
..or whatever dumb**s name you decide to call yourself, you have a short memory. All three coaches have good and bad… and I actually like all 3. Even with this bad tournament, Klinsman still has the best winning percentage (56%) of any USMNT manager that has coached 10+ games….EVER! Better than Arena (54%), Bradley (56%), Samson, Milutinović etc.
– Arena: took the US to quarter-final of the ’02 World Cup then one of their worst finishes in ’06 when they finished 25th/32 teams. He won 1 Gold Cup title then 3rd in the ’03 Gold Cup.
– Bradley: Won the Gold Cup in ’07, then came in 2nd in ’09 & ’11 (where the US were spotted a 2 goal lead only to be outplayed and look like children as Mexico put 4 past us for 60 minutes).
People are complaining about a tournament where teams often send their B-teams to participate in. Doubt me, then look at the ’13 Gold Cup. All I care about getting to the Confederations Cup. Look all the better teams in CONCACAF had horrible tournaments: Honduras, Costa Rica, USMNT, & Mexico. it was a bad 2 weeks. Call me if we do not make the Confederations Cup. That’s it!
Wow – spot on Ives. It’s time people started blaming Klinsmann for what he’s doing.
I also saw the projected lineup for the 3’d place game (assuming there is one) Surprise surprise… basically the same team that failed against Jamaica. Somehow they’re going to be better?
Just remember 5 straight finals.we were in… not this time . last 4 times out…we win……This time… we’ll be LUCKY if we get 3’d place. That is your legacy Klinsmann an epic FAIL
Klinsman botched this tournament. Ives is spot on.
Give me a break. It wasn’t all Klinsman’s fault, but it is mostly his fault. That line-up he put out there should have beat Jamaica. Again that starting 11 is better than the Jamaica starting 11. OG is not the panacea. People have short memories. He is a decent international player who makes mistakes at the international level. Alvarado is talented, but should been replaced with the imperfect OG, but I have seen OG give up goals on the international stage. The issue was the blunt attack going forward. With all the chances going forth and none of the forwards/wingers could put it in. The only guy(s) in midfield and forward who had good tournament were Bedoya and Dempsey (and even Dempsey played lazily in the Jamaica game).
The real issue is the team he picked. Too many broken parts. He should have included the key players that beat Holland and Germany… they know how to win. Instead… players that were not in shape, or too old or too slow or too inexperienced. These decisions makes it 100% JK fail. BTW… we may not even get 3’d place
Or, or……they actually played pretty well at times, for long stretches. Created over 20 shots in goal. Had at least 2-3 shots go off the posts. Blew shots easier to net than to put over the crossbar.
That’s just a bad day at the office.
That’s just the soccer Gods saying, “OK, mon, it’s time for da Reggae Boyz to win one, mon. Step aside dehr my Yanks. Manacled, and dehn go soccah!”
Though, I do agree that the last 10-15 minutes of the game is when you go slowly, and deliberately because you are in a hurry, and use your experience in big games to vary the pace and lull your opposition into a false sense of security. Long balls over the top, and lack of movement in the mid-field, the inability to build up play, and have creative attacking soccer……it was all rather nauseating.
Watching Bradley consistently give the ball up on the attack with his brick footed heavy touches on the dribble,….infuriating. You played for Roma!? WTF? We are better than this.
Never realized how much of a Jk fanboy Garrett was until now. Totally bias when it comes to Jk. Bet if we lose the confederation cup spot he’ll then be saying that doesn’t matter that only the World Cup results in 2018 matter and if we do Horrible in Russia 2018 he’ll probably still say it wasn’t jk’ s fault and say somthing like, “Jk has left an awesome foundation for 2022”. Ridiculous!!! Hero worship run a muck.
Thank you Ives, always keeping it real
Ives was pretty much spot on but Garret has a point that the ultimate goal is to make the Confederations Cup. It would certainly remedy things a bit and maybe this loss against Jamaica will wake up Klinsmann to not so stubborn, but I doubt it.
Nah nah nah nah nah, your illustrious coach said the goal was to WIN THE GOLD CUP to make it to the Confederations. Don’t downplay this embarrassment.
Nah, sorry but…. If the ultimate goal is to make Confed Cup, the quickest way to settle it was winning the tourney this weeks guaranteeing a spot. JK himself set up the team goals for the year- Win GC. They/he failed. I’m not on the fire JK bandwagon. That said- owning ones mistakes goes a long way. As a player, I know it was huge motivator/team builder if my coach owned up. Something along the lines of: “Guys…. we failed. Not nearly good enough. And that starts with ME… I failed you, not setting you up for success.” In other words- we are in this together- accountability goes both ways. That would certainly make me respect him more as a fan, and for sure as a player make me want to run through a wall for my coach.
dalomismo,
Don’t you think it is a little bit presumptuous to assume that the USMNT players react to their coach the way you would, if you were them?
Unlike, for example, the NBA or the NFL there is comparatively little known about the kind of interaction that goes on between JK and his staff and the players, either on the practice field or off the field.
There is no “Hard Knocks”, no NFL or MLB channel with endless scrutiny of the players, formations, tactics etc.by “insiders” with actual “inside” information. There is no Hollywood celebrity level of scrutiny of these guys and their professional and private lives, Brian Strauss notwithstanding.
It was like that in the Bradley era if not more so.
I’m sure Ives and Grant Wahl and whoever else is doing does their best.
However, in comparison to what an average NFL or MLB fan can find out the inner workings of their favorite team, the average USMNT fan might as well try to access information on the inner workings of North Korea or FIFA.
also, Ives’ dig toward Alan Gordon was cheap and had no merit. Gordon was called on to provide a late game goal if they found themselves down late and he came on against Jamaica and won every header that came his way. The man did his job he was asked to do, not his fault the rest of the team couldnt bury the chances. The man has a role, yes its a very niche role but if you’re looking at the last 2-3 men to round out your squad I would rather have Gordon who dominates in his niche than utility men like Brad Davis or Graham Zusi. Just my two cents.
Besides that, I completely agree with Ives rant.
Damn Ives my first time listening I had no idea you were this volatile haha. It is what it is though. An absolute embarrassment to lose Jamaica and Jurgen is absolutely to blame for his personnel and tactics decision. Jurgen better get his crap together or the calls for his job will get louder and louder.
yes, JK deserves blame for the team’s performance. unfortunately, his character does no appear to be open to criticism. despite his rhetoric ‘we will learn from this and move forward’ he himself appears to be a low-level learner when it comes to feedback on issues like the LD fiasco and now this with the young center backs. why does he have to be so right on these things?
what really concerns me with JK is this… despite his world class vision and full-on commitment to that vision (both good things), the desire for control is creating a rigid/stilted environment, where players spend too much time worrying what coach wants. is JK trying too hard to force players into his vision and then penalizing them if they don’t suck up (why is besler on the sh** list?)
it is the coaches responsibility to bring the best out in his players, to mAke the team bigger than the sum of its parts. JK does not seem to be doing thAt very well. he would do well to learn from some of the criticism directed his way, including crricism of his handling of GC 2015.
Ives is overly harsh on the performance of Brooks/Alvarado in the match against semi-final. They made one mistake that lead to a goal, and it was a spectacular header (lucky maybe?). Who’s to say OG and besler would have had some flawless performance and held Jamaica? How could you be so sure? They make errors too, and aren’t as good at possessing and passing out of the back, right now. What about the criticism for AJ/Dempsey not finishing their chances? Critizing playing Zardes- who are the obvious players that would have been better playing at that position? Where’s the amazing, experienced winger sitting on the sidelines- Zusi?
I agree. Did the mid defense make mistakes? Yes. Gave up A GOAL in the Jamaica match. Team should be able to overcome that. In my mind, the Jamaica game was lost in the midfield…. and the fact JKs tactics formation set them up to fail… withdrawing Dempsey/isolating AJ, going defensive with Bradley, playing Beckman…. the way those players responded/played. Very poor.
Geiger. Corrupt/bought? I tend to doubt it, but with the record of FIFA?CONCACAF, all possibilities need to be considered.
I’d say more likely, Geiger is a victim of his own press/ego. He has a history of unnecessarily inserting himself into matches. Dude- no one came to watch you. Pretty good chance, he came into this match with a fixed, preconcieved mindset, which was perhaps initiated, was fed it pregame meetings. Went into the match with the picture that Mexico is a skilled team that needs protecting/Panama an overly physical team that had to be watched/controlled. Errors are made in every match, difficult, could go either way calls made. When these calls seem to go 100% in favor of one side and against the other- you will be called into question. As you should be.
I can appreciate the fact that Garrett tries to hold a civil discussion. Sometimes, it’s annoying to constantly hear Ives raise his voice for no reason to get his point across. I give Ives a red card.
I don’t necessarily agree with Garrett because Klinsman (and any coach) shares blame when they loose (and more when they don’t adjust). However, Ives behaviour was beyond f’in annoying. With all the yelling, I wanted Garrett to stand up for himself, dammit. I found myself saying just shut the f up Ives! However, this is on Garrett for not standing up for himself.
All I know is I have personally turned 13/15 guys on this site, but a lot of them of have been turned off by the podcast behaviour.
Behavior?
It’s a slip that occasionally happens. I work in the legal group of a European company, and we work in multiple languages. However, when we write in English, we have to write in UK English so I sometimes forget to change spelling to American English (behavior v behaviour and all the or/our words, acclimatize v acclimatise and all the se/ve words etc.). Spellcheck is set to UK English in Windows.
Not the word. What did you mean by ” but a lot of them of have been turned off by the podcast behaviour.”
Garrett,
Don’t worry about it. Some people like it. some people don’t. Some of my friends still listen to it. The ones that don’t feel like Ives yells/picks on too much. I have no issue with it, except for the last podcast when I thought he was too hard and you didn’t defend yourself enough. However, I had a bad day. I like the arguments.
jurgen should be let go. because he has been so unwilling to raise his hand for the blame i don’t get the impression he has the humility to see what he did wrong during this gold cup. also garrett was more wrong on this podcast than i have heard on any other episode
“he has been so unwilling to raise his hand for the blame”
Why should he?
The US were in position to win this game. They out shot Jamaica something like 21 to 10 and could easily have had 3-4 goals.
Jamaica took full advantage of their luck and their chances.Barnes scored a great free kick. They did a great job.
The US did not blow this game, Jamaica took it from them and I expect them to beat Mexico unless they have an understandable letdown.
gulp gulp slob slob gag gag.
You are right in one aspect, Jamaica did not win this game, USMNT lost this game, which makes it Klinsmann’s fault, from line up selection to subs and tactics when Gordon came on. We should’ve played our game instead of launching aerial ball hoping for a lucky bounce. We should be better than that. Yes, he should be let go. The is the most embarrassing loss for the USMNT in a Gold Cup, given it is played in the US every time. This loss could be compared to Brazil’s destruction by Germany at the WC. I know what you are gonna say, but they lost 7-1 and we 2-1. To clarify, Brazil lost to Germany, not shocking to lose to Germany, even at home, what was shocking was the score and the way Brazil played. As for USMNT, we lost to Jamaica, let me say that again, Jamaica. It was not Mexico or Costa Rica, it was Jamaica and at home. Tell me it doesn’t get any more embarrassing than that. Oh wait yeah, a loss to Panama in the 3rd play match should be the last nail in Klinsmann’s coffin, but it won’t. Gulatti likes the blond.
Jamaica will NOT beat Mexico. Keep dreaming.
You did not see Jamaica in Copa America did you?
I totally agree. This is totally, 100% JK’s fault. From poor player selection that once again leaves him no options during the tournament to his consistent playing players out of position (Bradley) to his inability to get a team ready to play from the opening window to is inability to say “I screwed up” when he does.
He was hired to build the US program. That is not done by playing half a team of people that only come to the US when we have a game here. The Jamaican coach has done more with less than JK has done. I never thought I’d say it but I’d vote for bringing Arena back, and demoting JK to some meaningless position in the hopes of embarassing him enough that he’d quit. WE ARE GOING NOWHERE WITH JK RUNNING THIS PROGRAM.
I approve this message.
+1
I notice how many here dismiss this game as meaningless as downplaying a very likely USMNT loss. They better win this game, or this will called the Brazil of the Gold Cup. Mind you, we only play the Gold Cup at home. If CONCACAF was to rotate the tourney around, I gurantee you, every time it’s played outside the US the USMNT will never, here me here, never win the Gold Cup again.
Like there is no way we can win in Europe now or can never beat a Concacaf team away in qualifying? LLOLLLL!!!!
Yes, USMNT can beat one team away, but it normally takes 3-4 wins in a knock out stage to win a tournament. That’s what I was referring to.
well, the Gold Cup used to rotate, mexico dont want it anymore, economically they lose money as their big stadiums are empty, nobody goes to see jamaica-haiti in Queretaro.
Canada could host it but Canada aint cheap. Also, once Canada is eliminated there is no support for the rest of the teams. In contrast, the US is the only country in the world where thousands of expatriates already live. Most fans wouldnt be able to afford to travel to Canada, Central America, Mexico, etc to support their teams.
BTW, watching Copa America in chile seems to prove my point about fans in big tournaments. Chile fans as the host country were huge in numbers, not many supporters from other surrounding countries. I think USA could host Copa America permanently, like I said, you will see packed stadiums and enjoy a World Cup atmosphere.
How do you convince Conmebal to have Copa America in USA? Keep South America continue its rotation (Brazil is up next in 2019). Revenue is the biggest incentive, award 30-40% of all revenues collected to the “host” country, in this case Brazil, the rest is distributed accordingly to other participating Federations, made sure FIFA dont get a red penney.
Extend Copa America to 24 teams, invite Japan, Korea, Australia and 3 top African teams and you got yourself a soccer party every four years.
If they host Copa America in the US will the supporters travel?
Granted, many of the CONMEBOL countries probably have large expatriate populations in the US but doesn’t that still leave out a lot of local supporters?
of course it will… but stadiums will be 80-100% full regardless… Americans, brazilians, argentinians, mexicans and EU fans will go watch Uruguay-Korea.
At the end of the day, the SA federations will care more about the incoming revenues more than the absence of local support at Copas in USA.
Thank you, Ives; call it like it is. There is no consistency in the US system or lineup and that affects the team.