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Panama players considering protesting third-place game vs. USMNT

photo by Jason Getz/USA Today Sports

By FRANCO PANIZO

CONCACAF Crooks.

That is what was written on a banner that Panama’s players made and held up after their controversial loss to Mexico on Wednesday, minutes before attacker Luis Tejada revealed that the Canaleros were contemplating not playing in Satuday’s third-place match.

Panama suffered a 2-1 defeat in extra time to Mexico in a CONCACAF Gold Cup semifinals game on Wednesday night. The Panamanians were reduced to 10 men midway through the first half and gave up two controversial penalty kicks late in the match, including in the 89th minute when the score was, 1-0, in their favor.

Panama was demonstratively livid with each of American referee Mark Geiger’s big calls, and after the match displayed unhappiness. The Canaleros first huddled around a banner that called out CONCACAF and made the rounds on social media. Then, Luis Tejada – the Panama player sent off with a questionable red card in the 25th minute –  said the team was considering protesting Saturday’s third-place game against the U.S. Men’s National Team.

“We’re going to gather as players and make a good decision as to what will happen with the third-place game,” Tejada told Panama television network RPCTV.

“I left my team with 10 players, we took the lead without anyone gifting us anything, and we know we got robbed,” Tejada added. “We did everything we could, but we were defenseless without guns and were robbed. The group is working for the good of Panamanian soccer.”

If Panama does decide to participate in the third-place game, it will do so on Saturday vs. the U.S. at PPL Park in Chester, Pennsylvania.

The two nations previously met in the group stage, playing to a 1-1 draw after goals from Blas Perez and Michael Bradley.

Here is the aforementioned banner the Panama players unveiled:

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What do you think about Panama speaking out about Wednesday night’s controversial game? Do you see the third-place game being played vs. the USMNT? Expecting CONCACAF to punish the Canaleros even if they do take the field?

Share your thoughts below.

Comments

  1. The ref made the best that anyone could manage. Trying to punch a team that has discovered that playing a brutal type of play has helped them play with better teams. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Panama need to reevaluate there new found style of play better every Ref starts a game with more red cards in his pocket and waiting to use them. The penalties, specifically the one that the player jumped in the direction of the ball to prevent the mexican player from playing, was justified. The intent is was mattered. To touch the ball in play and drawing a penalty was consistent with a previous call made early against a mexican player. Great job Ref.

    Reply
    • Please tell me that you are fascitious. I am not a fan of either team and I could care less who won, but that referee certainly did not do the best anyone could manage. He was widely iinconsistent in his application of the law. I could go through a litany of examples of inconsistencies within the game, but I don’t want to waste my time. I am only going to say the Panama red card was a yellow at best and Vela’s yellow should have been a red. The first penalty was not a penelty. The 2nd was a soft penalty. Panama should have won that game, but their behavior at the final was inexcusable.

      In terms of intent, I suggest you pick up a rule book. Intent had nothing to do with either call. I know this because I used to be a licensed FIFA licensed referee in the US before going t9 graduate school and refereed elite club team games. Don’t believe me, get a rules book, they can be had for free.

      Reply
  2. Who knows what is worse, the fact that the level of Concacaf officiating and organizing is so terrible or that teams like Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala think that by playing dirty, physical, and unprofessional football, they’ll somehow succeed. The dirtiest team in the last WC was Honduras. Their physical play was criticized by everyone and they really offered a terrible image to the world. And yesterday’s reaction from the Panamanians was downright ludicrous. Yes, referees screw up. But that does not give you the right to go and kick the referee and threaten him with physical violence. Pathetic. While Vela should’ve seen a red, Panama’s fouling all over the field (and leniency from the ref) made it so that Pimentel, Cooper, Machado and Cummings were on the field when most of them should’ve received double yellows way before the penalty call. Play like that and then lose your heads over a dubious call by the ref? Disgusting.

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  3. Panama is going to play the third place game. They would lose money if they didn’t. I think there should be suspensions and investigations about the incredibly high number of penalty kicks lately. That also goes for the Women’s World Cup. Before every game referees need to reiterate what the rules about penalty kicks are. The game in which Mark Geiger called the shots came apart when Geiger failed to control the situation. The red card was the beginning. To give two penalty kicks in the same game to the underdog team is inexcusable. He needs to be going back to school.

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  4. Don’t know if CONCACAF will fine a Panama no show to 3rd place match. All the HQ office staff are under indictment and with their attorneys. And the office lady keeping the lights on, she can’t even run the fax machine.

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  5. Turn it into a Beasley testimonial match! The US should ask Panama to borrow their kits so that we can field all of our players.

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  6. i don’t blame them. what happened was awful. honestly, i don’t even want to watch it anyway. will just get me all POed again that we aren’t in the final.

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    • Agree with your comments. The last two Mexico games were fixed. CONCACAF wants: 1) Mexico to play in, and win, the Gold Cup final. BIG $$$ at the gate, huge TV ratings
      2) US versus Mexico in the playoff game. BIGGER $$$$$$$ at the gate, huge TV ratings

      These last two games were a travesty. The referee teams from both games should be banned from ever being involved in any further CONCAF matches. I won’t watch the 3rd place game Saturday or the final on Sunday.

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  7. Why even have a 3rd place game? It is not like anyone actually wants to be there. Even if the game is played we will most likely see the top players rested and see a lineup of players who have not played much all tournament since the teams are essentially playing for a paperweight. As for Panama protesting, I fully understand it. However, it needs to be done in a way that does not punish the 5000 fans that will actually purchase tickets to this dumpster fire.

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    • Both side should pull there keeper and try to break the record for most goals in a match. Just make a complete mockery of the match, that’d also be kind of fun to see.

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  8. Jamaica might as well not show up either. The Rose Bowl is already booked for the Confederations Cup playoff match. No chance they’ll let Jamaica play in that.

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  9. I don’t know whether or not panama should protest the game. But if I paid money for tickets and spent the time traveling to see the this Gold Cup match, I would be greatly upset if there was no game.

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  10. TOUGH > Regardless of what anybody thinks of the PKs, PAN put themselves in this situation with their horrid, clumsy defending ~ They put GEIGER is a spot bad by forcing him to make some sort of call .. ..

    That first PK, at match-speed, sure looked like it was handled by the DF a bit .. ..

    Either way, PAN pretty much put themselves in the mire with their own play .. ..

    THE PITCH, THE FANS, THE OFFICIATING? HEY IT’S C-O-N-C-A-C-A-F! IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE THE COMEDY CHANNEL ~~ Just enjoy it .. ..

    Reply
    • the PAN DF fell on the ball, the ball hit his tricep and back simultaneously… that’s a pretty weak hand ball imho

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    • Actually Panama was going extremely light on most of the contact … they had their hands straight up even before players bumped each other most of the time. They were bending over backwards trying to avoid bad calls. Which is probably why the bad calls, when they came, were so painfully obvious.

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  11. I think that cries of match fixing are serious accusations and cannot be thrown around lightly. Geiger had a poor game, but not as horrible as some are making it out to be. While he had a lack of control, the players also have to keep their heads and remember they are professionals as well.

    I think you can easily see each of Geiger’s calls. Vela probably should have been shown a red, although there are many referees who are hesitant to provide a red card to someone so early in a match without the foul being a clear last-man situation (remember Clint Dempsey’s elbow to the head of a Slovenian in the 2nd minute of the 2010 WC). Tejada raised a forearm and caught an opposing player in the face. Straight red. If you want to go further, Cooper should have also gotten a red for pushing Geiger in the back. I happen to think that both penalty calls were correct. The second one was a no-brainer. Vela may have been marginally offside, but that’s not Geiger’s call in the position he was in – he needs to be helped by the AR on that one. The actual foul, once offside wasn’t called, wasn’t even a question. The first one was dubious; however, the fact is that Torres fell on the ball and handled it. Intentional or not, he was lying on the ball in the box with his arm touching it. I thought it was a penalty.

    On the conduct side, the behavior of Mexican fans was and is always despicable. Not sure why it’s so fun to throw stuff out of the stands, but player safety is compromised. Additionally, Panama’s behavior after the Torres penalty was shameful, culminating in the stampede towards Geiger at the end. Thankfully, it looked as if Penedo was trying his best to get in the middle.

    Bottom line: I don’t think Geiger was paid to fix this and to randomly suggest otherwise, regardless of how it may seem, is irresponsible and slanderous IMHO. He may not have been as strong as he normally is but I can marginally agree with all of his contentious decisions.

    Reply
    • yes, we want to tread lightly when accusing concacaf of corruption…they’ve been exemplary so far, so these accusations are totally random.

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      • Completely different corruption.

        Is there fixing games in the past in CONCACAF? I have been to a fixed game and it feels weird. I haven’t seen that, but I don’t know all, nor have I seen all. Just a lot, not all.

        Or is it just a lot of American people complaining about fields, rough crowds, bad reffing, etc?

        I didn’t watch the game, just the questionable calls, but Geiger has always been so good.

        In my opinion, none of these were clear cut. They were all tough calls.

        ps. If people are going to go the route of fixed, which HoboMike correctly calls a serious accusation, I would be much more likely to go the route of threatened refs, not paid refs. How much money is a Gold Cup really worth?

      • corruption is corruption.

        and gary page is right (below)–there doesn’t need to be an exchange of money, or even threats. geiger (and other refs) are heavily dependent on being in the good graces of the powers that be.

        hell, all concacaf had to do was make sure the refs know “the importance of cracking down on dirty play in the box at the end of games”, and maybe make some comments on how certain teams (mexico not included) have been getting away with stuff, and it could almost certainly benefit mexico, due to their style of play.

        the fact that geiger has been so good in the past only lends credence to the notion that there was something shady here.

        i’m really not one to entertain conspiracy theories, but knowing concacaf, and watching these games, it doesn’t seem far-fetched at all.

      • The problem with your third graph is that that was such a weird play. If you’re talking about “dirty play in the box” you’re thinking clutching, grabbing, pushes, and ankle kicks, not a guy falling on the ball.

      • yeah, i thought about typing “rough play”, and changed it to “dirty” just because it’s more all-inclusive (a player handling the ball could fall under the second, but not the first).

      • Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and ranges from Costa Rica to Panama like a toxic poison arrow frog. Maybe it’s not a duck, but it sure is ugly.

        And it looked like a duck to the announcers. Wrestling is starting to look honest.

    • Tejada raised a forearm and caught an opposing player in the face. Straight red.
      ===
      That’s not enough for a red. You have to strike with excessive force and use your arm as a weapon. Simply contacting the head/neck/face isn’t enough. It needs to be contact with Excessive Force. This was an hand/arm at full stretch – being used as a tool to find where the player was. It wasn’t likely to injure the player, thus it’s not excessive force and thus not a RC. Yellow card? I could support, because it does show some disregard for the opponent’s safety (you could put his eye out), but that was in no way an excessive force direct red. Geiger was simply not close enough to the play and bought the theatrics.

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    • The first one was dubious; however, the fact is that Torres fell on the ball and handled it. Intentional or not, he was lying on the ball in the box with his arm touching it. I thought it was a penalty.
      ===
      Intention and deliberateness matters. The foul isn’t for “handling of the ball”. It’s for “deliberate handling of the ball.” A player falling backwards onto the ball landing on it with his arm isn’t deliberate.

      Reply
      • To me it looked like he landed and moved his arm towards the ball. In any other area of the field, it probably wouldn’t be a foul, but in the box, it’s a different matter. As another poster said, it appeared as if he essentially corralled the ball for Penedo to reach it more easily.

      • He fell and braced his landing with his arm. There wasn’t deliberate handling of the ball. The ball just happened to be there. That it ended up corralled for Penedo doesn’t matter, because there was no attempted to deliberately handle the ball.

        And it’s not a different matter just because it’s in the PA. If it’s not deliberate handling outside, it’s not deliberate handling inside.

      • If you go by the rulebook, you are absolutely correct. However, I’m sure you’ve seen, as I have, tiny bumps called in the box that are not called outside the box. On the other hand, you’ve also seen full on wrestles in the box that weren’t called, but were outside of the box.

        It’s all subjective.

      • I’d actually argue that the threshold of a what a ref is willing to call afoul goes way up inside the box. Tiny bumps that are fouls outside suddenly aren’t fouls inside. It’s not supposed to happen, but if you watch long enough, it’s hard to deny.

    • All of your points are well taken and logical when taken individually and in isolation. However, there is a pattern of behavior here which is disturbing and we know CONCACAF has been rife with corruption for a long time. And it doesn’t have to be bribery involved. Hasn’t anyone ever had a boss who has given an assignment and strongly hinted at what conclusion that he or she wanted you to reach? It has happened to me, and more than once. So, the message doesn’t have to be blatant or even overt. It could be something as simple a a CONCACARF official talking to the refs before the tournament, telling them how important they are and the tournament is.
      And how the tournament is so important because it raises a lot of money for the federation and how it can determine who goes to the Confederations Cup. Then the official could mention how they respect all the match officials and they will be looking at them and evaluating their performance, especially difficult calls that could go either way, to see who will be hired in the future for CONCACAF events. In this way there are no threats, no promises, but the message is clear. You want to work for us in the future? Then give us calls that make us money.

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      • Hasn’t anyone ever had a boss who has given an assignment and strongly hinted at what conclusion that he or she wanted you to reach? It has happened to me, and more than once
        ===
        Is that you Ted Wells?

    • Yes, I am unaware of any formal protest in the usual channels, no ref with cash envelope in hand, just some bad calls. If we knew it happened, then that’s one story, but this is another at this juncture. And while FIFA did eventually get caught, it took years and basically the FBI flipping people under sealed charges. Only then did actions start getting taken. Until then, are we to assume every poor ref day means they are on the take? What does that do for respect for the game?

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      • If it was just this match then fine, but this is 2 knock out matches in a row where Mexico gets a questionable PK call at the death.

    • Whatever, this is a message board. Any claim of match fixing here is implicitly not serious and in fact CAN be thrown around lightly.

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  12. What makes this so pronounced is that it happened back to back: one against Costa Rica and another against Panama is the final seconds and minute …and neither were even close to being penalties. It will be interesting to see if Jamaica has a 1 -0 lead in the 90 min. what might happen. Let’s see if Jamaica can pull this off so the U.S. can have that one game playoff against Jamaica, a rematch.

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    • As a US fan, I want to take down Jamaica. Last night left a sour taste. Additionally, Mexico hasn’t earned the opportunity.
      Some will say we are afraid of Mexico, and they are certainly a dangerous side- probably moreso than Jamaica- but they flat have not earned the opportunity to play for the confed cup, even if the run Jamaica off the field in Philly.

      Reply
    • not to mention Peralta should have had a red before getting that PK and Vela should have had a straight red last night. it’s unreal.

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  13. Simple. Come to the 3rd place game and then simply sit down on the field and refuse to play. Let the US score at will (however, the US will most likely realize this and refuse to score, maybe the US pokes one goal into the net and aimlessly passes the ball around for the rest of the time).

    Or, if you want, talk to the US, agree to do this for a half, and then play the second half.

    Lots of ways they can protest without throwing the game.

    Reply
    • what i was going to say.

      US and Panama should just pass the ball around, take a break and sit out a 0-0 official game that is more of a protest. if concacaf makes them take penalties sure..

      split the 3rd/4th place prize money.

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      • I would like to see them hack the ball around the pitch as you describe and then have a “LIVE” PK shootout as a nod to the fans and a friendly competition with eachother.

    • true it reminds me of a recent time in Brazil’s league i believe where every team across the league just stood there for a couple minutes at the start of the game to protest the bad working conditions ( not positive on the reason). at the very least Panama should “peacefully protest” more or less by doing this rather than not showing up to play.

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      • While I agree, Panama can easily be sanctioned just for the tweet. Regardless of the current FIFA news around the world.

    • Agree with this 100%. I think Concacaf probably has legal reason to sanction them if they don’t show up. If they show up and sit down on the field for 90 minutes, they may still be sanctioned but technically they are playing the game. Will be interesting to see what happens, and I hope they do protest somehow.

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    • Wrong.
      The rules say you have to play to the best of your abilities. Sitting down on the field is just the same as not showing up.

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      • Which rules are those? Not the Laws of the Game. Does the Gold Cup really have a rule that you must play to the best of your ability? I’m not attacking. I really want to know if that is really in the Gold Cup rules. (I believe it is in the NBA rules to keep teams from losing to get draft picks.)

    • “Simple. Come to the game and then simply sit down on the field and refuse to play”
      That’s what Greiger should’ve done when they told him to give Mexico the game.

      Reply
    • “the US will most likely realize this and refuse to score, maybe the US pokes one goal into the net and aimlessly passes the ball around for the rest of the time”

      you better believe dempsey will be gunning for landon’s record. 🙂

      Reply
      • So, justifying like Guardado?

        We’ll see what happens. But if Panama is playing B-league, Dempsey won’t get much honor with his goals. Hopefully he’s up to the task of doing what’s right, and not just what’s expected of him. I’m hoping for a good international friendly, with no injuries.

    • Something like this is the best solution. The reason that all of the final group games are played at the same time in the World Cup is because once Germany and Austria were playing in a final World Cup group game and, because of earlier results, knew that a draw would allow both of them to go through, so they just passed the ball around and back and forth for the 90 minutes. This resulted in the rules change, but not any sanctions that I can remember for the teams doing it.

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    • You really want precedent for teams throwing hissy fits at Gold Cup? I don’t want to extend all the fake drama over into Gold Cup, teams threatening not to show up, etc. You really want to be buying tickets for these games in future years with a precedent that they might skip, or show up and sit there and allow 100 goals, if they don’t get all the calls? They’re professionals, or supposed to be, act like it.

      I mean, all these games at this stage are high stakes and inevitably close losers are going to be complaining about calls. If we’d had better chances and not gotten a PK yesterday, we’d be crying “ladrones” too. Only reason we’re not is that was not even close, maybe AJ’s ball off the post. But often enough there is some ref call and if all you have to do to not show up is claim it didn’t go your way and should have, then every team losing these high stakes games gets to decide whether to throw their hissy. I’d prefer the process be more mature than that.

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      • A hissy fit is when you’re wrong, or just stupid.

        When you’re in the right, it’s protesting an injustice. If you watched the whole game, it was clear that they got an intentional shaft. The fix was in from the first whistle, and even an awesome game couldn’t save them. They handed el Tri’s butt to them on a platter, and it was clear on everyone’s book, except in the checkbook.

      • This isn’t a case of a team just thinking a call when against them. It is much deeper than that. But, you have your selfish interests and they have theirs. I’d rather see them make a statement.

    • They should just play one huge game of juggle between both teams. That would at least be somewhat entertaining for the fans who paid to watch the game.

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  14. I know it’s unrealistic, but I think getting sanctioned by CONCACAF would be a badge of honor.

    I think the Panama players should take the field against the US, and then have the entire squad, on the field and on the sidelines, throw bottles and trash on the field for five minutes.

    Lost in my initial reviews of the play was yet another mistake by Geiger — the Mexico player fouled the defender well before they fell. A clear pull-down.

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    • yeah, i think the better form of protest is to show up and just not play. kind of similar to what Brazil did against the US U-17s awhile back. different reasons entirely (Brazil was just bitter they got stomped!), but just stand there for 90 minutes. 3rd place game is a waste of time anyway.

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  15. I think in the end they show up. If they don’t CONCACAF could easily threaten to DQ them from the next WCQ cycle which Panama can’t risk missing. A big part of me wishes they wouldn’t show though.

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    • Yeah, it was great that they stopped the game for 15 minutes… and it would’ve been a grand, principled stand if they had stayed off, too. I can’t blame them for going back on, but they were certainly right to go as far as they did. Shame that CCAF has enough power to threaten their future livelihoods and the national team’s future participation. People that tuned in afterwards might even believe that the game was fair.

      Props to the announcers (Univision in Spanish) for calling it like it was, and not pretending it was legit.

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  16. They’ll show up. CONCACAF will threaten serious sanctions (ban from next Gold Cup? ban from 2018 qualifying is probably too steep) if they don’t. Maybe they’ll field a B lineup, but they’ll show.

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    • yeah, that’s the biggest question. what will CONCACAF do if they skip? not to mention, Panama is going to get punished for losing their cool. even if i feel for them, you can’t do what they did.

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    • Americans are just not ready for this level of football. Are you stupid? The USA is the best team in the region and this tournament. A little bad luck went their way and they are out, that’s football. To say they are not ready for the Gold Cup level is just stupid. That means the Gold Cup is bigger then the World Cup, which the USA has been successful and let’s not forget the USA has been in the last 6 straight Gold Cup finals. Please go and watch baseball, it’s more your level. Idiot!

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  17. Geiger had a bad, BAD game. Lost control early with a poor call on the red card, and never looked back. Doubled down on the mexico “penalty” and barely had control of the game towards the end. Normally I think he’s a good ref, but last night, oof. One he’d like to forget I’m sure.

    One last thing: CONCACAF needs to get a hold on the Mexican fans. It’s funny the first time you see it, but watching guys on the field and bench get pelted by bottles, bags and whatever else they can find is getting ridiculous. And yes, I’m pointing out the Mexican fans because I’ve literally only seen it done in games Mexico is involved in.

    Reply
      • no, Geiger is not “usually solid”

        He’s been making a mess of MLS matches for years now. He rose to the occasion for the world cup, I’d be the first to acknowledge, but anyone seeing his games in MLS have seen games with outrageous red cards, early reds when yellows are called for, and scuffles with amongst players because of loss of control.

      • the organizers need to send in the calvary in Philly, even having the 2nd half on extended standby as hordes of fans need to be escorted out.

      • At least Philly is the right place. They used to have a jail cell in the bottom of the Vet during Eagles games. I saw the fiercest blindside hit on a guy wearing a Deion Sanders cowboys jersey one night in the upperdeck. Long melee followed, but the cops were ready.

      • The game was on American soil. You play in front of empty stadiums as part of crowd control. So the blame there lies on the host, in this case, the U.S.

        The U.S. could choose to have a Mexico game in the U.S. played behind closed doors, but they’d lose a lot of money.

      • doesn’t matter where Mexico plays…their fans throw stuff at players. the punishment should fall on their home games. it’s that simple. you can’t do it in a tourny like this where it’s a “neutral” venue. you only going to allow Jamaica fans in?

    • It’s quite sad, because you’re actually taught at ref school to fairly balance the 50/50 calls. If Mexico gets one 50/50 call, than you better damn make sure that Panama gets the next. It simply didn’t happen here.

      Reply
      • Um, you’re kidding right? At “ref school” you’re taught to call each play as you see it, not to try and balance calls.
        You are taught to call the game with consistency though…so in this case giving Vela a YC and Panama the RC does seem crazy.

      • Um, he’s not kidding. 50/50 is 50/50, not 60/40. So if you call a questionable PK that was 50/50, than don’t call it for the same team next time. Quite simple.

      • Yeah… Never heard that in any of my certification or re-cert courses. There’s a lot of talk about “100% misconduct” and calling every minute the same, but nothing about makeup calls.

      • Get real. When have you ever seen bad refereeing at the top level? It just doesn’t exist.

      • Remember: I can only go with what I’m taught. If I’ve never heard it in my courses, wouldn’t it be my instructors that are bad? And wouldn’t it be USSF and FIFA’s material that is bad? Because there’s nothing about make up calls in there either? And if my assessors don’t think I should be calling makeup calls, are they wrong too?

        Or is it just possible you don’t have a scintilla of an idea what you’re talking about. Ruminate on it.

      • Um, if I’m reading correctly, he/she said 50-50. So it’s not necessarily a make-up call. On a 50-50 call, the ref rewards one team on his best judgement. On the next 50-50 call, the ref should reward the other team. If it’s 51-49, than it doesn’t apply. For example, if every big 50-50 call goes Mexico’s way (like last night with red, pk, pk), than people will cry foul. If he thought they were obvious calls, than above doesn’t apply and Panama needs to get over it.

      • On a 50-50 call, the ref rewards one team on his best judgement. On the next 50-50 call, the ref should reward the other team.
        ===
        That’s a makeup call.

        You’re explicitly taught not to do that in refereeing courses.

      • Your original post KB was this:”It’s quite sad, because you’re actually taught at ref school to fairly balance the 50/50 calls.”

        And what I’m saying is that there is absolutely nothing in any cert, re-cert, upgrade class or material, or field assessment to this effect. There is no directive to referees from USSF to “balance” calls. The directive is to set a threshold for what you think is a foul, be consistent, and call it as you see it. That second part is the most important, and would be most threatened by attempts to balance calls.

      • Wow! So as a ref, you may encounter a few 50-50% calls throughout a game where you have no idea if it was a foul or not. But you are completely happy rewarding all of them in the favor of one team?

        Or is it just possible you don’t have a scintilla of an idea what you’re talking about. And that you’re another run of the mill bad ref who gives good ones a bad name. Ruminate on it.

      • There’s no such thing as a 50-50 call. It’s a foul or it’s not. It’s misconduct or it’s not. You either call/card it or you don’t. I don’t get paid to balance the game like some sort of animatronic possession arrow. I get paid to make a decision based on what’s happening in front of me. If I see what I believe to be a foul, I call it. If I see what I believe to be misconduct, I card it.

        Do I get miss calls? Sure: that’s the nature of the job. Have I made incorrect decisions? Probably. Do I call makeup calls? Absolutely not, and any ref who does call makeups should quit immediately. That’s bad, inconsistent refereeing, and that’s the kind of thing that infuriates players.

      • Epic fail. That’s why we’re in this fan fiasco. You are the direct reason why fans in EVERY sport are asking to remove the referee from the big decision making. What’s even worse is that you cannot admit you make mistakes. 50/50 means both ways. But hey, I guess FIFA doesn’t teach you math.

      • “There’s no such thing as a 50/50 call.”

        __

        Um, half is you make the call. The other half is you don’t blow the whistle. Either way, one team is rewarded. Otherwise, you must that you have god-life powers and are never wrong. Oh no wait, you admitted as much.

      • Um, half is you make the call. The other half is you don’t blow the whistle. Either way, one team is rewarded. Otherwise, you must that you have god-life powers and are never wrong. Oh no wait, you admitted as much.
        ===
        Yeah. The team that got fouled is rewarded. That’s how it works. If you see it, you call it. You don’t call half of them because they’re barely fouls Barely foul is a foul. If the fouling team wants me to stop rewarding the other team, maybe they should stop barely fouling the other team?

        Why is this hard to understand?

      • Epic fail. That’s why we’re in this fan fiasco. You are the direct reason why fans in EVERY sport are asking to remove the referee from the big decision making. What’s even worse is that you cannot admit you make mistakes. 50/50 means both ways. But hey, I guess FIFA doesn’t teach you math.
        ===
        Then pick up a whistle and do it yourself. I guarantee there are courses being taught within 20 miles of wherever you live.

        As for me admitting my mistakes: Did you miss the part where I said, “Do I miss calls? Sure: that’s the nature of the job. Have I made incorrect decisions? Probably.” Anybody who’s done it has made mistakes, but you don’t make makeup calls to “correct” those mistakes. Do you know what makeup calls are? Match Fixing.

      • I also just realized the massive hole in the situation you posited at 1635. You said:

        “So as a ref, you may encounter a few 50-50% calls throughout a game where you have no idea if it was a foul or not. But you are completely happy rewarding all of them in the favor of one team?”

        The question I’m consistently asking myself is, “Was that a foul?” If the answer is not “Yes. It was,” I keep my whistle out of my mouth.

        If I have no idea if something was a foul or not, I’m not going to call it a foul. Now… Angles, screening, and recovery happens, and that limits the things I can see, but I have no problem if one team seems to be consistently not fouling. I am perfectly happy rewarding that team’s apparent fair play, and will not call bogus fouls on them to even things out. Sometimes, some teams just foul more than other teams in a game. It happens – and it’s the players’ fault – not mine.

      • Meh, I like JordanMorris’s view here. Even if it isn’t in a manual. If I’m playing in his game and am whistled for a soft foul, I want him to whistle the opponent for the same soft foul on the other end.

        I think that’s all he’s saying.

        Further if you give a “soft red” to one team- like Geiger did- and there is a debatable red the other way- you pull the trigger again.

        This may not apply to the penalty situation late in the game, if he saw intentional handling, then he has to call it (but review should be allowed) but it does to the red card situation from earlier on.

      • Everyone is caught up in the semantics. This idea that “if it is a foul, I call it, and if it isn’t a foul, I don’t call it” is bunk. Any referee knows that you do not call every ticky tack foul there is. In fact, I read an interview of Mark Geiger where he admits being told my MLS to not call those ticky tack fouls so the ball will stay in play. So, the point about 50/50 calls is not “make up calls,” but to call the game consistently. If you call soft fouls one way, you have to call soft fouls the other way too. That’s what he meant (though maybe not so artfully worded). And, that is absolutely correct. In the Mexico Panama game, Geiger was horribly inconsistent in his calls, and that inconsistency did seem to way heavily toward Mexico’s favor.

    • Geiger was paid to be bad. That was not just a rough day on the job that was intentional match fixing.

      There is NO way that two different American refs blatantly throw consecutive matches in this fashion.

      Geiger should be banned and somebody needs to investigate match fixing in the last two Mexico games.

      Reply
      • #truth. His finances need to be investigated. He embarrassed himself, and ruined his reputation – no amount of money is worth that.

      • In order to have a crime, you have to establish motive. Which there is a clear motive beyond any personal monetary gain for these officials.

        If CONCACAF can host a US v. Mexico game in a sold out Rose Bowl, that would bring in tens of millions of dollars for the federation. Millions of dollars that disappear if there is no game. If Mexico would stop sucking so hard, this fix would have been easier to pull off.

      • and the GC final isn’t at the Rose Bowl…so clearly he is referring to the Confeds Cup playoff that is going to be a HUGE money maker if it is USA v. Mexico. it’s sad USSF is selling out their own team by agreeing to play at the Rose Bowl. hopefully Jamaica can beat Mexico…

      • Sorry to say, but it doesn’t matter that the U.S. is going to be at the Rose Bowl. That game is only selling out if Mexico is there, too.

      • wispy, i think you need to re-read my comment because that was the point…….

        Rose Bowl is only being used if Mexico is there and for USSF to agree to play there is criminal. quite literally selling out their own team.

      • @bryan, I agree with you. In reply to your point that “USA v. Mexico” would be sold-out, I was just commenting that, sadly, the “USA” part is a much smaller factor.

      • @wispy…i didn’t say that. i said USSF sold out our team. i think everyone agrees any sell out at the Rose Bowl has nothing to do with the US. that’s for sure. in fact, i’m almost positive the game will only be there IF it is USA v. Mexico which is why I think the USSF is ridiculous for agreeing to it. did they learn nothing from the 2011 GC final?

      • Nope I didn’t miss anything but you sure seemed to miss a key point of mine…USA is unimportant to the equation considering they had already qualified for the play-off.

        In order for CONCACAF to benefit in the form of millions of dollars they need two things:

        1. A play-off game in the first place, which means someone other than the USA wins this tournament.

        2. Mexico in that game. Because then it can be played in the USA and get a huge crowd from both sides.

      • Don’t be an idiot.
        PRO teaches a reffing style that is stricter than the rest of the world does. Thus the American refs tend to call things tighter, and in this case, overstepped their bounds and called it too tight.

      • Have Americans only officiated these two Mexican games in the knockouts? Or did they uneventfully call the rest of the tournament? Something could be up

      • Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. The red card call by Geiger was unbelievable. What was he thinking?

    • As I mentioned in another post, Tejada raised an arm and caught the defender in the face with it. Red card. Unquestionable.

      Reply
      • Hmm, and what do you call a two footed scissors tackle that doesn’t get the ball as was done by a Mexican player (Guardado I think it was) in the CR game?

      • yes, Peralta should have been send off straight away. Panama wasn’t only team robbed; CR was too.

      • If anything, the embelishment on the “red card challenge” could have been carded. That incidentat that point of the game, was a yellow.

      • It was Peralta. 10 minutes before he flew through the air under his own power, twisted himself as if he he’d been stiff armed in the 6 yrd box, and duped the ref into making a dubious penalty call at the end of the CR – eel Tri match.
        Hristo Stoichkov who was doing color commentary along with Pedro Rodriguez and “el Profe” Jesus Bracamonte, immediately howled that the 2-footed slide tackle from behind by Peralta should have been straight red card.

      • Nope. Usage of the arm is important, and “Tool vs Weapon” is the way you differentiate.

        Tejada was using his arm as a tool to find where the MEX player was. It was his open hand sliding to a forearm. There was no windup. There was no strike. Even though it was to the face, that was tool all the way and should have been yellow or just a foul. Vela, OTOH, had all the things you look for when determining if the elbow/arm/hand is being used as a tool or a weapon AND he was doing it while play was stopped.

      • You lose credibility when you say “unquestionable,” when so many people, including top soccer officials, are questioning it. Maybe you should say the call was “justifiable,” but that gets us back to the inconsistency issue.

    • Geiger has been poor since France v. Nigeria at the WC. giving only a yellow to Matuidi after he broke two of Onazi’s bones was shameful. came back to MLS and had some shockers again. it’s sad because he started off so well at the WC…

      as for Mexico fans…totally agree. they should have no fans for their next home game that isn’t a friendly and the punishment should start stacking if it happens again. it’s the only way.

      Reply
  18. Not a bad idea. They WERE robbed, and not many people really care or wanna see the third place game anyway. #wasteoftime!

    Reply
    • when Panama concede, klinnsman should come out unilaterally, and likely to the opposition of Gulati, and say that team USA will not accept 3rd place in support of Panama’s protest against the atrocious officiating in Concacaf

      Reply
      • That is their fight, let them fight it. Besides, it’d be nice to see if they beat Klinsmann’s demoralized team for third place. That way there would be more immediate pressure to fire Klinsmann back across the Atlantic. Most here would like not to play Panama to avoid more ridicule. Like it’s been said before …The games should go on!

      • the one good thing that will come from this, and i bet $5 buck on it, is that Panama & Costa Rica will push hard to jointly host the next Gold cup. Did I say they will push real hard for it? And it will happen.

      • If that happens (Gold Cups outside the US) the USMNT will never win a Gold Cup, ever again.

      • And your point is what…. Don’t circle the wagons because Geiger is an American, yeah, Americans can’t be corrupt.

        Hugs and Kisses,

        Chuck Blazer

      • Would be a hypocrite if it wasn’t called out no matter the circumstances.

        Mexico seems to have benefited on 4 questionable calls in 2 games, resulting in 3 converted PKs and going a man up for 90 min including ET. Each Time was an American making the call. That’s the data.

        Something smells fishy to me. In all seriousness, I’d start looking at financial records given the history.

        If CONCACAF and FIFA don’t like living under that realm of suspicion — the should 1) clean up their act over all and 2) invest in officials – importing from UEFA if they can’t handle it

      • Panama should immediately send a friendly invite to Jamaica for a match in Miami within 3 weeks of the Gold cup final. Hopefully, some money man will step forward, sponsor it, and call it the “Cup of Gold ‘friendly'”. Panama should also immediately put in 6 own goals within the first 3 minutes of the match against US.

      • Sorry but I don’t see the moral imperative in us refusing an honor we do deserve for our efforts, because of how another game went. We’d be playing someone in any case, and in close semis, the team in the 3rd place game usually wishes they were someplace else. Often can point to some bad call that didn’t help. Mexico would be moaning if they lost. Do we do some joint capitulation with Mexico if that happens?

        I think it would be sufficient for us, after the tournament is over, to join others in asking for referee improvement. But the idea that we both skip a medal game because a couple teams are unhappy how some knockout round games went, is poor sportsmanship. That could happen every tournament. People want this bad, I don’t want to license the game protest equivalent of rolling on the ground looking for a call by every team that loses a game they thought they had a chance to win. If they want to formally protest, they can, but if they don’t formally protest and the ref just had a bad night, that’s not enough to derail a whole big tournament.

        I mean, doesn’t Panama have a running history of this kind of “almost there” in the region?

      • Nobody gives a flying fat lip about the third place game. Third place isn’t an “honor” (especially when all you have to do is beat Cuba after all their firepower defected), you win a trophy that lets everyone know you didn’t win the tournament. High fives all around. Making a statement about piss poor officiating in an international, professional tournament is a lot more powerful than claiming a consolation prize.
        Sure, Jamaica beat the US fair and square, but officiating has been a running issue through CONCACAF for a while now, and apparently nothing is being done, so why not take the chance to say something when the spotlight is on you.

      • The third place game was scheduled after debate and is what it is. Such games come and go because losers aren’t typically excited to play them. So shock and dismay that Panama would rather not. How eager do you think we are?

        There has to be some level of protest between not showing up, or not trying, and doing nothing. The teams join at the half for 10 seconds after the whistle in protest but then play the game people paid to watch that was scheduled by the confederation. That strikes me as more fair than turning further games into farce to protest the last one you didn’t like.

      • Running history is one thing, last night’s witnessed events is another. Pure and simple, they won the game according to the rules of the game, and it was taken from them. It makes the game a sham, worse than watching a rigged boxing match.

        I watched the game, and am indignant about the fraud on the public by pretending to have a real game that was obviously decided in advance. The only two games with referee teams that have never worked together before (as opposed to a full set of refs from one country) were Mex vs. Costa Rica, which looked like an obvious gift, and Mex vs.Panama, where they learned from Costa Rica by trying to hide the fix by using a bad red in the first 5 minutes.. when even that didn’t work, at nearly the only time Mexico actually arrived in the box, a gifted penalty that was obviously against the rules. Where exactly is the fix? That will take forensic accountants. But just like Al Capone, anybody watching could see it like a freight train.

        Panama lost the game but kept their honor. Even the good players on the Mexico team are stained by this fraud. And most of them are smart enough to recognize it and be embarrassed.

      • People keep acting like the fix is in but the other half of that equation somehow didn’t play out.

      • The USA v. Any Team Other Than Mexico does not necessarily sell out the final in Philly. Mexico v. Any Team on Earth does, and also sells out the Rose Bowl in an additional match. I’m not saying I buy into the conspiracy theory, but if there is one, there is no ” other half of the equation.”

      • The USA part was established in 2013. Now there will be a USA-Mexico game in October that would not have been there before.

      • …and for Klinnsman to suddenly refer to atrocious officiating in Concacaf will be the first time he’s ever referred to this? C’mon, he already saw it as a big problem to being with before the tourney started. Anyway, thanks for your comments Gulati, I mean the “imperative voice”

      • Well…. giving up nothing wouldn’t be much of a stand, now would it?

        “Sacrificing something you’ve earned” does… particularly when the organization, event from which “the honor” has been given has PROVEN itself to be a tainted, dishonorable sham. Continuing to participate is enabling the status quo.

      • That is their fight, let them fight it. Besides, it’d be nice to see if they beat Klinsmann for third place. Most here would like that to be the case to avoid more ridicule. The games should go on!

    • paul carr retweeted video showing a new view. Panama handball was indeed a handball. Geiger got the call correct.

      Reply
      • I agree, after further review he threw himself on the ball and controlled it with his upper arm. Silly of Torres to do this, but he did. The second was definitely a penalty. Now, the only problem I have is, if it had been the other way around, this 90th minute borderline call would not have been called against Mexico. One key call that can not be disputed as a gift to help Mexico was the red card to Tejada when it should’ve been a yellow, and Vela’s elbow is normally a red, unless you are Mexico in CONCACAF. That’s how I know the fix was on.

      • I don’t think that video provided anything more conclusive than I had seen before.
        He may have been doing this on purpose, he may have been off balance from being thrown to the ground, there is a slight chance he tried to control the pelota with his arm. I think they should not have called it.

        Further, there definately should have been a call on the action going for the ball.

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