Wow. waited a good 72 hours before I could watch highlights of this game. and
OUCH…still as painful. But not because we played bad, but wow, just a crazy goal to end it and you gotta admit that Mexico played great. It was a great game….still hurts though.
All disappointment is born out of a failure to have an expectation met. What, exactly, is everyone’s expectation here? Our best players are on the wrong side of 30, and our best prospects have not demonstrated that they are better yet. So what do you think another coach would have done differently this summer? In order to put our best players on the field many of them need to be out of position, and last night was still separated by an absolute golazo. JK’s subs generated a goal, and his 3rd was being saved for sending in Rimando for PKs. Mexico had an answer for the diamond and the US was limited in its ability to respond.
Fair enough, Mexico was probably due a win. It’s just time for some turnover and change. Question is Klinsmann still the man to head that turnover or someone else.
First of all, any player that plays out of position “is no longer the best at that position”. No other country does it and there is a reason……..Jermaine Jones on the wing? Beckerman instead of Danny Williams? Altidore Up top instead of Zardes? What did we expect to happen……
Playing bunker football with Altidore (who can’t score and is known for only hold up play) and Dempsey up top, getting service from 3 natural DMs and expecting a strong counter attack with no speed up top is insanity on many levels…..
How does the player that didn’t make the original final 23 become the highest rated USMNT player on the field?
“So what do you think another coach would have done differently this summer?” If coaching wasn’t unique or if all coaches brought the same thing to the table or if different methods wasn’t that important then US soccer could call in any coach with a professional certification from the local football association and call it a day. The right coach is, if not more, important as the right players on the team
Bizzy its ok to be angry and to want JK gone, but lets be real about the out of position players. Bradley is not a DM, he’s a CM which is where he was playing running box to box like everyone wants. JJ plays in that position all the time on his teams in Europe, it was only when he came to the USMNT that people started thinking he was only a DM. No one complained about the exact formation and lineup when it beat Ghana and tied Portugal. Zardes has been far more effective in his time with the Nats as a winger than as a forward. The only guy that I thought was out of position last night was Johnson, he looked bored, maybe it was the injury, playing as a RB and did very little but hang back as cover.
Sorry played that position in Europe, and its not a true winger he tucks inside and lets the back in this case Beasley bomb down the wing. Which when the US had possession in the first half and in extra time was effective.
I hear what you are saying Johnnyrazor but :
Bradley is not a true CAM and started playing that position when he came to TFC after JK put him there with the USMNT
Jones is not a winger, tucking in or not, never played there with Schalke or New England
How can you play counter with no speed up top and use a striker that only has hold up play…..hold up during counters??
Zardes is a forward not a true winger. He has found success because he is a good adaptive player.
Please, I’m dying to know what your starting 11 would’ve been for this game.
There’s a saying that the ball is round. As a result it doesn’t matter who you are you are going to lose some games. Adam M., if you look clueless, inconsistent and lack cohesiveness over a stretch of games then its the Coaching fault. Jamaica has a new Coach who has been on the job for a short time. He took then through Cup America and did a fantastic job with them. Yes, they lost but played evenly with the Teams they played. They advanced to the finals against Mexico. They were exhausted and tired by that game. JK has a larger and deeper pool of players than Jamaica has. That my friend is poor management of the players in your pool. JK needs to go. He is a poor excuse for a Coach. JK does not have to recruit duals to field a good team. There are players in the MLS who can do the job. I see a team lacking heart, leadership, direction and preparation. Its JK my friend. The entire Coaching Staff needs to be revamped. Sunil is incompetent and needs to go.
I don’t know how you can say that the team lacked heart last night. Legs, tactical ability, a plan maybe, but heart come on. When Mexico comes with the mind to play against the US and has a coach that isn’t a prima donna they are better than us, no matter which American players the managers chooses.
The US isn’t going to win consistently against equal or better teams with its mediocre talent base, which would have been worse had Klinsmann’s recruiting skills not been available. Klinsmann has done a good job wringing out the most he can with the talent at his disposal, I don’t see how a different manager is going to make things materially better at this point — though its easy to see how it could be worse.
Which is fine but there should have been far more turn over in the last year. I’d be fine with the same loss if the team had been much younger. However just hanging on to Jones, Beasley Beckerman, ect serves no real purpose.
“This is the best we’ve got” or “It is not Klinsman’s fault” or “We played hard but just lost” or blasting individual players rather than the group as a cohesive unit are some of the comments and mindset that allows Klinsmann to keep his job. I’m just tired to the excuses.
When we lose, the first thing people say is “who else could we have played?” instead of “who else could have coached this team?”.
“Give two cooks the same ingredients and the same recipe; it is fascinating to observe how, like handwriting, their results differ. After you cook a dish repeatedly, you begin to understand it. Then you can reinvent it a bit and make it yours”………by David Tanis
The same is true about a coach and HIS selected group of players. Hats off to EL Tri and the passionate Mexican fans. They totally deserved this win.
To add insult to injury, Bobbie Wood was only included on the roster because Bedoya dropped out…..one of the US players with the highest rating for this game
Soccer isn’t chess where everyone has the same pieces to play with. Brazil is having real trouble lately, and they are chock full of world class talent at every position. Having a different manager pulling the strings should be able to find a winning strategy there. The US has a mediocre player pool. Its not surprise that they can’t win consistently against similar or better competition. Its not enough to say “who else could have coached?” Its whether someone else could have done something different to get a better result. In any one game, sure. Over time? Well, Klinsmann does have the best winning percentage of any longterm US manager.
Excuses like that is why Klinsmann has his job. Player pool? How is Jamaica’s player pool? How is Panama’s player pool? They both beat us in major competition. We have lost our last 3 CONCACAF matches, when has that ever happened???
“The US has a mediocre player pool. Its not surprise that they can’t win consistently against similar or better competition.”…..Jamaica beat us with Barnes and Manneh…..Panama with Roberto Nurse.
Seems like Klinsmann has the best wining percentage of games that don’t matter
We need only one cycle coach, and never repeat the same coach after the World Cup.
In that third goal watching Beckerman and Jones trying to turn around is like watching two eighteen wheelers maneuver in a residential street. Painful.
From Paul Gardner’s Soccer America commentary:
“Even world-class personalities — maybe especially them — need to be challenged and questioned. Klinsmann is allowed to do what he likes. In a disgraceful display of personal vindictiveness he was, last year, allowed to leave the USA’s best player, Landon Donovan, off the World Cup team. He is allowed to bring in his pal Andi Herzog to coach the Olympic team, a job that should have been given to an American. And he is allowed to scour the world for players with tenuous claims to citizenship, the passport Americans, and to use them instead of developing home-grown American talent.
And for what? Klinsmann has accomplished nothing of any great moment during his four years in charge. In World Cup terms — and that is usually the yardstick by which a national team coach is measured — he’s done no better than Bob Bradley did, and not as well as Bruce Arena.
USSF president Sunil Gulati seems to find all of that acceptable. Well, I don’t. Four years is a long time for a national team coach to keep his job — even if he’s winning. But Klinsmann is not winning, he is achieving nothing. He has an overpaid job, with next to no pressure. In fact — at least in the soccer world — the mother of all sinecures.”
I agree JK should go but…Oh please….The job should have been given to an American..(dey took er jawbs). ….LD left off drama (Cry me a river..we over performed got out group of death)…..JK isn’t even at fault at the development part….and yes..he’s given young players a chance to play, wood yedlin,corona,alvarado,garza,shea,zardes,morris…etc.
Part of The problem is he’s had the reigns for more than 1 cycle.. that’s too much.. hes lost the players. The other part is our development is lagging.. we are old and it shows.
There is no doubt that the Wrong players were on the field for too long last night. US Soccer is not moving in a positive direction at the moment. The results that count are the only results that matter and those aren’t very good.
Mexico had about twice as many shots (both shots and shots on goal) as the US according to ESPN. It wasn’t a case of a moment of individual brilliance defining the match; Mexico was clearly superior in the second half and in extra time. Hat’s off to Mexico. For the US, an incredibly poor year of soccer just got worse.
As someone who did not get to watch the game but just these highlights and a toine of summaries, my takeaways:
1. Mexico picked the right formation to neutralize the diamond, but it was still fairly toe to toe, even if ugly as hell.
2. Mexico scored the same way twice (coming down the flank with the entire US team chasing).
3. As for the winner… well, sometimes the winner is on a Feilhaber golazo-zo-zo volley… sometimes it’s on Aguilar’s…
4. the U-23’s do not help the mood of the soccer nation.
I still think there is a lot of progress happening in US soccer, but I’m gonna lie low for a few days while the blogosphere regulars muster up their English footie fans meets Republican Primary candidates impersonations as they toss off their usual set list including “Fire Klinsmann (or just set him on fire)”, “Lazy Jozy (or just set him on fire)”, and “if only LD were still with us we’d still be number Five (so set Klinsmann and Jozy on fire” and various other lesser hits off the “end of the world in US Soccer.” EP.
There was progress in the stands as more US supporters show up to care about the team.
Congratulations El Tri, you played better and deserved the win. Also, good luck in Confederations, I know you will do well and a be a fine CONCACAF representative. Heck, you may even win your second Confederations Cup, the second FIFA world tournament for national teams.
They were more fun to watch in defensive phase. That’s where they gained their advantage.
I didn’t get to watch the match or review detailed statistics of it, but the reports I read inferred that Mexico had much more and much better possession of the ball throughout the match. Is that a fair assessment or was the game more balanced between the two sides?
Tim, yea. Mexico was relentless in the second half. We absorbed a lot of pressure and had few chances at the other end. Mexico was the better team and deserved their win.
Not caring so much about the Confederations Cup—much more worried about upcoming qualifying.
Mexico had better possession, and switched fields at will against us, but it wasn’t as one-sided as you may have heard. We had our chances last night. The U.S. didn’t play as badly as it had in some recent games. The big thing was Mexico’s energy level when we had the ball. They closed space on everyone really well, and we’re still not skilled enough to play at the speeds that type of frenetic defensive opponent makes you play. We were forced into too many bad passes into covered passing lanes. Also, it seemed to be a ‘lively’ ball, in that both sides were having less than clean first touches. It was bouncing a bit off everyone’s feet. That too advantages the better defensive effort.
Wow. waited a good 72 hours before I could watch highlights of this game. and
OUCH…still as painful. But not because we played bad, but wow, just a crazy goal to end it and you gotta admit that Mexico played great. It was a great game….still hurts though.
All disappointment is born out of a failure to have an expectation met. What, exactly, is everyone’s expectation here? Our best players are on the wrong side of 30, and our best prospects have not demonstrated that they are better yet. So what do you think another coach would have done differently this summer? In order to put our best players on the field many of them need to be out of position, and last night was still separated by an absolute golazo. JK’s subs generated a goal, and his 3rd was being saved for sending in Rimando for PKs. Mexico had an answer for the diamond and the US was limited in its ability to respond.
I’m not sure another coach does much different.
Fair enough, Mexico was probably due a win. It’s just time for some turnover and change. Question is Klinsmann still the man to head that turnover or someone else.
First of all, any player that plays out of position “is no longer the best at that position”. No other country does it and there is a reason……..Jermaine Jones on the wing? Beckerman instead of Danny Williams? Altidore Up top instead of Zardes? What did we expect to happen……
Playing bunker football with Altidore (who can’t score and is known for only hold up play) and Dempsey up top, getting service from 3 natural DMs and expecting a strong counter attack with no speed up top is insanity on many levels…..
How does the player that didn’t make the original final 23 become the highest rated USMNT player on the field?
“So what do you think another coach would have done differently this summer?” If coaching wasn’t unique or if all coaches brought the same thing to the table or if different methods wasn’t that important then US soccer could call in any coach with a professional certification from the local football association and call it a day. The right coach is, if not more, important as the right players on the team
Bizzy its ok to be angry and to want JK gone, but lets be real about the out of position players. Bradley is not a DM, he’s a CM which is where he was playing running box to box like everyone wants. JJ plays in that position all the time on his teams in Europe, it was only when he came to the USMNT that people started thinking he was only a DM. No one complained about the exact formation and lineup when it beat Ghana and tied Portugal. Zardes has been far more effective in his time with the Nats as a winger than as a forward. The only guy that I thought was out of position last night was Johnson, he looked bored, maybe it was the injury, playing as a RB and did very little but hang back as cover.
Sorry played that position in Europe, and its not a true winger he tucks inside and lets the back in this case Beasley bomb down the wing. Which when the US had possession in the first half and in extra time was effective.
I hear what you are saying Johnnyrazor but :
Bradley is not a true CAM and started playing that position when he came to TFC after JK put him there with the USMNT
Jones is not a winger, tucking in or not, never played there with Schalke or New England
How can you play counter with no speed up top and use a striker that only has hold up play…..hold up during counters??
Zardes is a forward not a true winger. He has found success because he is a good adaptive player.
Please, I’m dying to know what your starting 11 would’ve been for this game.
There’s a saying that the ball is round. As a result it doesn’t matter who you are you are going to lose some games. Adam M., if you look clueless, inconsistent and lack cohesiveness over a stretch of games then its the Coaching fault. Jamaica has a new Coach who has been on the job for a short time. He took then through Cup America and did a fantastic job with them. Yes, they lost but played evenly with the Teams they played. They advanced to the finals against Mexico. They were exhausted and tired by that game. JK has a larger and deeper pool of players than Jamaica has. That my friend is poor management of the players in your pool. JK needs to go. He is a poor excuse for a Coach. JK does not have to recruit duals to field a good team. There are players in the MLS who can do the job. I see a team lacking heart, leadership, direction and preparation. Its JK my friend. The entire Coaching Staff needs to be revamped. Sunil is incompetent and needs to go.
I don’t know how you can say that the team lacked heart last night. Legs, tactical ability, a plan maybe, but heart come on. When Mexico comes with the mind to play against the US and has a coach that isn’t a prima donna they are better than us, no matter which American players the managers chooses.
The US isn’t going to win consistently against equal or better teams with its mediocre talent base, which would have been worse had Klinsmann’s recruiting skills not been available. Klinsmann has done a good job wringing out the most he can with the talent at his disposal, I don’t see how a different manager is going to make things materially better at this point — though its easy to see how it could be worse.
Which is fine but there should have been far more turn over in the last year. I’d be fine with the same loss if the team had been much younger. However just hanging on to Jones, Beasley Beckerman, ect serves no real purpose.
“This is the best we’ve got” or “It is not Klinsman’s fault” or “We played hard but just lost” or blasting individual players rather than the group as a cohesive unit are some of the comments and mindset that allows Klinsmann to keep his job. I’m just tired to the excuses.
When we lose, the first thing people say is “who else could we have played?” instead of “who else could have coached this team?”.
“Give two cooks the same ingredients and the same recipe; it is fascinating to observe how, like handwriting, their results differ. After you cook a dish repeatedly, you begin to understand it. Then you can reinvent it a bit and make it yours”………by David Tanis
The same is true about a coach and HIS selected group of players. Hats off to EL Tri and the passionate Mexican fans. They totally deserved this win.
To add insult to injury, Bobbie Wood was only included on the roster because Bedoya dropped out…..one of the US players with the highest rating for this game
Soccer isn’t chess where everyone has the same pieces to play with. Brazil is having real trouble lately, and they are chock full of world class talent at every position. Having a different manager pulling the strings should be able to find a winning strategy there. The US has a mediocre player pool. Its not surprise that they can’t win consistently against similar or better competition. Its not enough to say “who else could have coached?” Its whether someone else could have done something different to get a better result. In any one game, sure. Over time? Well, Klinsmann does have the best winning percentage of any longterm US manager.
Excuses like that is why Klinsmann has his job. Player pool? How is Jamaica’s player pool? How is Panama’s player pool? They both beat us in major competition. We have lost our last 3 CONCACAF matches, when has that ever happened???
“The US has a mediocre player pool. Its not surprise that they can’t win consistently against similar or better competition.”…..Jamaica beat us with Barnes and Manneh…..Panama with Roberto Nurse.
Seems like Klinsmann has the best wining percentage of games that don’t matter
We need only one cycle coach, and never repeat the same coach after the World Cup.
Scott I think this is the first time I’ve agreed with you all weekend. It rarely works for anyone, anywhere.
Do I show my displeasure with Klinsmann by not going to the Costa Rica game or do I go and boo the crap out of him?
Something needs to be done.
In that third goal watching Beckerman and Jones trying to turn around is like watching two eighteen wheelers maneuver in a residential street. Painful.
From Paul Gardner’s Soccer America commentary:
“Even world-class personalities — maybe especially them — need to be challenged and questioned. Klinsmann is allowed to do what he likes. In a disgraceful display of personal vindictiveness he was, last year, allowed to leave the USA’s best player, Landon Donovan, off the World Cup team. He is allowed to bring in his pal Andi Herzog to coach the Olympic team, a job that should have been given to an American. And he is allowed to scour the world for players with tenuous claims to citizenship, the passport Americans, and to use them instead of developing home-grown American talent.
And for what? Klinsmann has accomplished nothing of any great moment during his four years in charge. In World Cup terms — and that is usually the yardstick by which a national team coach is measured — he’s done no better than Bob Bradley did, and not as well as Bruce Arena.
USSF president Sunil Gulati seems to find all of that acceptable. Well, I don’t. Four years is a long time for a national team coach to keep his job — even if he’s winning. But Klinsmann is not winning, he is achieving nothing. He has an overpaid job, with next to no pressure. In fact — at least in the soccer world — the mother of all sinecures.”
I agree JK should go but…Oh please….The job should have been given to an American..(dey took er jawbs). ….LD left off drama (Cry me a river..we over performed got out group of death)…..JK isn’t even at fault at the development part….and yes..he’s given young players a chance to play, wood yedlin,corona,alvarado,garza,shea,zardes,morris…etc.
Part of The problem is he’s had the reigns for more than 1 cycle.. that’s too much.. hes lost the players. The other part is our development is lagging.. we are old and it shows.
There is no doubt that the Wrong players were on the field for too long last night. US Soccer is not moving in a positive direction at the moment. The results that count are the only results that matter and those aren’t very good.
I concluded that the only way Jermaine Jones was leaving the field was via red card or if he actually keeled over and died out there.
Mexico had about twice as many shots (both shots and shots on goal) as the US according to ESPN. It wasn’t a case of a moment of individual brilliance defining the match; Mexico was clearly superior in the second half and in extra time. Hat’s off to Mexico. For the US, an incredibly poor year of soccer just got worse.
As someone who did not get to watch the game but just these highlights and a toine of summaries, my takeaways:
1. Mexico picked the right formation to neutralize the diamond, but it was still fairly toe to toe, even if ugly as hell.
2. Mexico scored the same way twice (coming down the flank with the entire US team chasing).
3. As for the winner… well, sometimes the winner is on a Feilhaber golazo-zo-zo volley… sometimes it’s on Aguilar’s…
4. the U-23’s do not help the mood of the soccer nation.
I still think there is a lot of progress happening in US soccer, but I’m gonna lie low for a few days while the blogosphere regulars muster up their English footie fans meets Republican Primary candidates impersonations as they toss off their usual set list including “Fire Klinsmann (or just set him on fire)”, “Lazy Jozy (or just set him on fire)”, and “if only LD were still with us we’d still be number Five (so set Klinsmann and Jozy on fire” and various other lesser hits off the “end of the world in US Soccer.” EP.
Things are gonna get silly.
“I still think a lot of progress is happening in US Soccer” – what exactly?
There was progress in the stands as more US supporters show up to care about the team.
Congratulations El Tri, you played better and deserved the win. Also, good luck in Confederations, I know you will do well and a be a fine CONCACAF representative. Heck, you may even win your second Confederations Cup, the second FIFA world tournament for national teams.
+1
Their attack was fun to watch. That is if I could remove myself from the fact that I am a USMNT supporter.
They were more fun to watch in defensive phase. That’s where they gained their advantage.
I didn’t get to watch the match or review detailed statistics of it, but the reports I read inferred that Mexico had much more and much better possession of the ball throughout the match. Is that a fair assessment or was the game more balanced between the two sides?
Tim, yea. Mexico was relentless in the second half. We absorbed a lot of pressure and had few chances at the other end. Mexico was the better team and deserved their win.
Not caring so much about the Confederations Cup—much more worried about upcoming qualifying.
Mexico had better possession, and switched fields at will against us, but it wasn’t as one-sided as you may have heard. We had our chances last night. The U.S. didn’t play as badly as it had in some recent games. The big thing was Mexico’s energy level when we had the ball. They closed space on everyone really well, and we’re still not skilled enough to play at the speeds that type of frenetic defensive opponent makes you play. We were forced into too many bad passes into covered passing lanes. Also, it seemed to be a ‘lively’ ball, in that both sides were having less than clean first touches. It was bouncing a bit off everyone’s feet. That too advantages the better defensive effort.
The game was pretty much Mexico attacking for 110 minutes