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Allardyce hails Defoe-for-Altidore swap as Sunderland’s best move ‘in a long time’

Photo by Kim Klement/USA Today Sports
Photo by Kim Klement/USA Today Sports

Sunderland manager Sam Allardyce wasn’t with his current club back when the Black Cats swapped Jozy Altidore for Jermain Defoe, but he considers himself and his club very lucky the deal went down.

When asked about Defoe on Tuesday, the veteran manager said that he believes the forward is a realistic option to represent England at this summer’s Euro 2016. In leading relegation-threatened Sunderland, Defoe has scored a vital 15 goals this season, making the swap deal for Altidore all the more monumental for the club’s future in the Premier League.

“Having just been reminded that he was swapped for Altidore,” Allardyce said, “it’s one of the best bits of business the club has done for a long time, with all due respect to Mr Altidore.

“I just think, if (England manager Roy Hodgson) needed anybody to go along to the Euros with experience and he needed a goal, and maybe not from the start sometimes, then Jermain would be your man, if he felt he needed it, because he has proven that this year. He has had a big run of games that he has not had for a few years. He has been a consistent performer at the highest level again.”

While Defoe’s time at Sunderland has been a resounding success, Altidore’s stint with the Black Cats brought what was likely the toughest period of the U.S. Men’s National Team forward’s career. The striker scored just one goal in 42 appearances for the club and frequently drew the ire of supporters over his performances.

Altidore scored 13 goals for Toronto FC last season, his first with the Canadian cub. This season, Altidore has yet to score in seven appearances, but has provided two assists.

Comments

  1. At this point,…Jozy has no excuses. He is highly paid, on a club that is serious about its future, playing with some excellent players, is managed by an American who should have no prejudice toward him and finally, is in the national pool and apparently has the support of the national team coach. If he doesn’t excel under these conditions,…he never will.

    Make it happen man!

    Reply
  2. Player A:
    2009: Top European League 0 goals
    2009: MLS 12 goals 5 Int goals
    2010: MLS 7 goals 2 goals on loan 3 Int goals

    Player B
    2014: Top European League 0 goal 4 Int goals
    2015: MLS 13 goals 6 Int goals
    2016: MLS (1/5th of season) 0 goals 3 Int goals

    Years don’t line up perfectly because Player A played 2nd half of Euro season in 2009 and Player B played first half of 2014, but since MLS has just started and with many Nat games left this season probably evens out. And no Player A is not Wondolowski.

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  3. Remember this, when he wins the golden boot and gets tranferred in the summer to Napoli. I Believe that we will win, I kid I kid but I like to speculate. I just don’t believe Jk anymore. Mourinho maybe… I kid. But here my cop a

    Altidore

    Deuxe. Fabian

    CP2k18

    Hyndman. Bradley

    Acosta. Miz. JAB. Yedlin
    Idk

    Reply
  4. Why is this even news? Altidore for Defoe? One scores clutch goals for a team fighting a religation battle and the other….well when he starts scoring I’ll let you know. TFC got the short end of the stick on that deal and everyone (but a few) knows that. Altidore has yet to score a single goal this season…….Wondo, who everyone looks down on, say what you may has scored 7 (in the same league with or in front of David Villa, Sebastian Giovinco, Ignacio Piatti, Giovani dos Santos, Kei Kamara etc).A striker’s job is to score goals period. when a striker’s extra curricular activities (Hold up play, Ability to make runs, chasing and playing defense etc) takes precedence over his scoring ability then he’s doing everything but what he is suppose to be doing. Like a keeper who is very agile and controls his box with his physic but can’t stop a shot or a wing back that is important because of his overlapping attack but can’t stop anyone driving down the wing to save his life. Defoe? Even swapping Altidore for Kei Kamara is a bad deal for the receiving team even if money was not a factor.

    Reply
    • No one would deny Jozy has had a slow start to the season or that he was bad for Sunderland. Your “a goal scorers job is to score goals” argument is the exact same argument I used on you last year when you said Jozy wasn’t any good, based on your whoscored rankings. 34 national team goals, one about every 3 games over his career, one every two games over the last four seasons, 2nd most WC qualifying goals by a US national, most goals in a European season by an American, 13 goals for Toronto last season or one every other game. Jozy scores goals sorry.

      Reply
      • if you put a turtle in a race and it wins then it means a rabbit will do better in that same race given the chance…..key word chance. ” I used on you last year when you said Jozy wasn’t any good”….. did you? because the last time I checked Altidore still isn’t really good

        think about it
        “Keep doing good deeds long enough, and you’ll probably turn out a good man in spite of yourself.” – Louis Auchincloss

        Keep “PLAYING IN INTERNATIONAL MATCHES” long enough, and you’ll probably turn out “TO BE A GOAL SCORER” in spite of yourself (Not being able to score in league play).

      • Yet yesterday you were saying Aaron Schoenfeld was a better option than Jozy. You know Aaron Schoenfeld who scored 5 goals in 5 seasons in MLS, or to be precise a goal every 314 minutes of play.

        Designated Players Mentioned by you, Bizzy
        Jozy a goal every 167 minutes.
        Kai Kamara a goal every 217 minutes
        Frank Lampard a goal every 244 minutes
        Gio dos Santos a goal every 158 (before these last four games 1 every 304 minutes)
        Stevie G. 1 per 390
        Piatti 1 per 188
        Bradley 1 per 986
        Kaka one per 254 minutes
        David Villa 1 every 137
        Giovinvco 1 every 128
        Dempsey 1 every 216 minutes

        Some Bizzy favs plus Mix
        Quincy Amarikwa one every 348 minutes
        Benny Feilhaber one goal every 499 minutes
        Mix Diskerud a goal every 641 minutes
        Sebastian Lletget 1 per 300 minutes

        MLS All Timers
        Landon Donovan 1 goal every 199 minutes
        Jeff Cunnigham 1 goal every 169 minutes
        Jaime Moreno 1 goal every 194 minutes
        Wondo 1 goal every 156 minutes
        Ante Razov 1 goal every 179 minutes

      • Ok Johnnyrazor, it looks like you didn’t understand salary versus total wages, now you don’t understand salary versus perfromance benefit…….or the saying:

        “Keep doing good deeds long enough, and you’ll probably turn out a good man in spite of yourself.” – Louis Auchincloss…..Keep “PLAYING IN INTERNATIONAL MATCHES” long enough, and you’ll probably turn out “TO BE A GOAL SCORER” in spite of yourself (Not being able to score in league play).

        Now for the players you are try to compare Altidore to
        Last 3 seasons –
        Chris Wondolowski: 2016 – 7 goals already, 2015 – 16 goals, 2014 – 14 goals
        Kei Kamara – 2016 – 5 goals already, 2015 – 22 goals, 2014 – 4 goals (with middlesbrough)
        Sebastin Giovinco : 2016 – 6 goals already, 2015 – 22 goals, 2014 – 3 goals
        Robbie Keane: 2016 – 4 goals already, 2015 – 20 goals, 2014 – 19 goals
        David Villa: 2016 – 7 goals already, 2015 – 18 goals, 2014 – 15 goals (Athletico)

        Altidore 2016 – 0 goals yet, 2015 – 13 goals, 1 – goals (sunderland).
        ALTIDORE IS NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS TOP ATTACKING MIDFIELDERS IN MLS LET ALONE TOP STRIKERS…….Altidore doesn’t even come close to the players mentioned some of which are making only a fraction of $4,750,000…….So yes he still sucks

      • Oh and Johnnyrazor, Altidore WILL NOT BEAT any of the players I mention above in GOALS for the 2016 season (Giovinco, Keane, Villa, Kamara, Wondolowski and I’ll even add in Dempsey, Bradley Wright-Phillips and Fanendo Adi). How do I know this? simple, Altidore IN NOT UP TO PAR WITH ANY OF THEM. Disagree and think Altidore is a scorer? Put your name where your mouth is……

      • Jozy isn’t better than Giovinco, Villa, or Robbie Keane. Wow, what a brilliant insight, who said he was. I think if you look at the stats I used you’ll see that pretty clearly. What you seem to be mad at most is that Jozy has a really good agent. I am not really sure why you get so upset that Jozy makes more money than Player B, are you secretly Bradley Wright Phillips who by the way must have the worst agent in all of MLS.

      • yup, Altidore is this awesome striker but I still see you can’t back it up……lol, no worries

      • Bizzy no one has ever said Jozy is awesome at least not since he was a teenager anyway playing in youth world cups. What people do say is who do we have that is better? The only answer you seem to ever come up with is Wondo. Second club play really doesn’t matter, when tasked to score for the national team he does at a higher rate than anyone not named Donovan or Dempsey.

        By your standards Donovan sucked because he never outscored the rates of Giovinco, Villa, Wondo, and Kamara have scored at over the last two seasons. So if Donovan wasn’t good enough for you, you are going to be a disgruntled US fan for a long time.

        Did you hear that SBI Community Bizzy says Landon sucks and Wondolowski is our only world class striker because he can score in MLS. Go get him everybody.

      • “Bizzy no one has ever said Jozy is awesome”….then why the argument??
        Who do we have that is better than Altiodre?
        Without a doubt: Clint Dempsey, Bobbie Wood, Chris Wondolowski

        Currently performing better than Altidore:
        Dom Dwyer (will be getting his papers soon), “Bad first touch” Gyasi Zardes, “The PRESENT” Aaron Schoenfeld (Scoring Hat-tricks in Israel like it was free), Jordan Morris, C.J Sapong, “Hold up play” Will Bruin (2016 – 2015 – 11 goals, 2014 – 10 goals, 2013 – 8 goals)

        Actually any decent striker that can find the back of the net CONSISTENTLY is better than Altidore, better yet Johnnyrazor I’ll even go on to say if you present ANY of those strikers with all the CHANCES Altidore had in front of goal with the USMNT and they come out with a higher goal scoring percentage. “If a turtle wins a 40m race then it’s a no brainer and fair to assume that a rabbit will definitely do better”

        Oh Please don’t mention Donovan: 2013 – 10 goals 9 assists, 2012 – 9 goal 14 assists, 2011 – 12 goals 3 assists, 2010 – 7 goals 16 assists, 2009 – 12 goals 6 assists. If LD is not scoring he is assisting. So Johnnyrazor in the presence of Altidore Landon Donovan is a God lol

      • My argument has never been Jozy is awesome its that he doesn’t “suck.”

        Zardes is an easy comparison playing on the same national team against the same opposition Jozy has scored 9 goals in 18 games, Gyasi 3 goals in 21 games,

        Sapong has never scored more than 9 goals in MLS, Jozy scored 13 last seaon.

        Let’s look at your new boy Aaron Schoenfeld, scored 5 goals in MLS in 4 seasons. It took Jozy last year seven games to score 5 goals.

        If you honestly think scoring a hat trick in Israel in the relegation playoffs against a team that is in the bottom half of the 23rd best league in Europe, qualifies you to be considered for the national team there is no point in discussing this any further.

      • My argument has never been Jozy is awesome its that he doesn’t “suck.”

        Ok then no need to argue. My thing is we need to try other options because Altidore is not it

      • Sure,try other options, but just who are you suggesting JK call up? It sounds like you just want to throw things onto the wall to see what sticks.

        Just who is performing better than Altidore (other than Wondo who does get called up, just not played)? Wood maybe, one of the 17 or 20 year-olds (Some are on the 40 man prelim roster for the next games) None of them except Wondo and perhaps Wood has really demonstrated a better knack for scoring at the club level than Jozy.

        I don’t think randomly calling in some forward who scored a couple goals and leaving Altidore off the sheet is going to happen until and unless the random forward does something at the club level that impresses, then shows in training with the USMNT that he can handle the faster pace and finally shows he can score goals in international competition.

        I am unimpressed with the forwards for the US U-23 and U-20 teams, they are not bad, but they are clearly not ready as evidenced by pretty lack-luster and failed attempts to qualify for the U-20 WC and Olympics. That pretty much leaves youngsters like Pulisic (still just a very promising kid) or dual nationals we largely haven’t seen or even heard of.

  5. While I agree with Big Sam (Sorry Jozy) maybe the manager of Sunderland should stay focus on he fact that staying in the Prem is not yet assured.

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  6. Jozy has been misused most of his career in a central role often as a “hold up” player and with his back to goal. He has been most successful running facing the goal. Go back and watch his AZ goals. They are class. Jozy should be playing a withdrawn striker or on a “power wing” a la Hulk. Maybe its too late…

    Reply
      • Playing on the wing would require some semblance of defensive effort and coverage for your fullback…for an entire match.

        I think you see where I’m going with the fundamental issues surrounding this position for Altidore.

    • Jozy on left wing would make us very narrow in attack and exacerbate what has already been a weak spot for us. We would NEED either a midfielder who can drift wide and provide width and service off the left foot OR a solid, true left fullback, both of which we’ve constantly struggled to find. Even with a healthy Fabian Johnson it won’t work because he instinctively drifts inside when he plays on the left and his left foot crosses aren’t very good. Maybe if Pulisic develops, but I suspect he would be used by Jk in that left wing role before being asked to play that drifting midfield role in a 4-3-3

      Reply
  7. I actually think a Jozy for Kamara switch makes sense from a soccer standpoint. But financially the Crew wouldn’t want to take on Jozy’s larger salary.

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  8. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but seeing as how Jozy has pretty much reached his ceiling of talent as a player, his game would of probably been best served if he would of stayed in MLS and developed here.

    One of the first things Villareal tried doing with him was training him to be more of a target striker, something that was continued under other Euro clubs, and now he’s neither target forward or second forward.

    Perhaps if he would of stayed with the Red Bulls he would of learned to take on defenders more skillfully and would of refined his technical abilities given the leeway he would of most likely had.

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  9. Could this be? Has the SBI “homer-ism” and writer-reader love affair with Jozy finally subsided?! I can’t believe it. Eight years later, it appears people are finally accepting what I and a few others have been saying all along. Jozy Altidore is an absolute CRAP player. At best he is an opportunistic athlete but yet he is a terrible finisher with worse technical ability. The sooner he gets the boot from the USMNT pool, the better. I still can’t understand Klinsmann’s infatuation with him. He has done NOTHING, continues to do so, and at his age can’t survive off hope and potential anymore. Are we really that bad up top that a player like him is the consensus roster lock??

    Reply
    • If 34 goals is nothing you have pretty high standards. He’s averaging a goal every other game for the Nats over the last four years. He is either first or second all-time in WC qualifying goals and 3rd overall all-time.

      Reply
      • Yeah and goals against who? Should hat tricks against “B” teams in friendlies be included? When has he ever taken over a meaningful game to our benefit? The biggest problem I have with Jozy is that he is not a creator. He is a finisher…and, unfortunately, poor one at that. Guys like Ives like to make excuses for him by blaming his service. Well, most players at the pro level should score when given good service. That doesn’t make him special. The mark of a real world class player, the level that we should demand from the national team, is that he can create and convert goal scoring opportunities even where none exist. Altidore is at best a mediocre pro even by MLS standards. By international standards, we should all be embarrassed if he’s the best we got.

      • Who cares against whom these goals are scored?! He is competing against same teams and defenses as the other players on USMNT. By age 26 he is 3rd best scorer in our history and is arguably on track to become best all-time or close. And you call this “nothing”. When Wood scores 4 goals in a year everyone thinks he is the savior.

    • Could this be? Has the SBI “homer-ism” and writer-reader love affair with Jozy finally subsided?! I can’t believe it.

      If Ives regularly contributed still, it wouldn’t have subsided. He routinely defended him with the “Calm down. He’s only .” Unfortunately, that excuse has ran it’s course.

      Reply
      • “Calm down. He’s only –insert age– .”

        I still vomit a little bit when I see that used.

    • Factual perspective. Altidore has 34 goals in his first 7 years. Let’s assume for this example that he continues that pace and plays another 7 years (until 32/33); he would project to have 68 goals.

      Now to put THIS in perspective, Landon ranks 18th all time in goals scored for country. If Jozy projects correctly to 68 he will not only have more goals than Landon but also rank roughly 12th on the overall all time list; right above keane, drogba, zlatan and many other top stars.

      This does not conclude that Jozy is better than those mentioned. This DOES however show a statistical fact that he HAS done “something” for the US……

      No one has to like him but it’s foolish to create your own ‘facts’ and the draw wild conclusions off of them. Jozy is one of our best strikers ever, Jozy also isn’t world class. But that says more about our overall talent level than his value. You can’t take out your frustration that our country hasn’t produced amazing soccer talents on a single player, especially such a high ranking player as altidore.

      Reply
      • “Jozy also isn’t world class”

        Why then should we stop looking for a player that is? We should just say “oh well, he will do,” I guess? Country of 300,000,000 people….there are many guys out there that if given a chance would have done way better. Why are we ok to stick with mediocrity? Why has he been dragged along all these years?

      • BK- “Why then should we stop looking for a player that is [world class]?”

        Who said we weren’t looking?

        For example, pertaining to coal/wind/solar/nuclear/etc power:

        Just because a certain form of sustainable power is performing well doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look for alternative power sources. But also just because we are looking for a better power source doesn’t mean the existing power source is terrible.

        You can both acknowledge Jozy isn’t world class but is also an important part of our team. And you can also hope another star player surfaces without lamenting the existing player. Don’t blame a current player doing well just because he doesn’t meet your preference for a star( especially when none of our players are on that level).

      • Hahaha…”BK- Please name all these guys out there that would have done better than Jozy?”

        That is the most asinine argument I’ve heard in a while. Not sure I even know how to respond. Even among the KNOWN players eligible for national team duty, we won’t know the players with international level aptitude until they are given the opportunity in high pressure, meaningful games. Some are being auditioned now which is good….Morris, Zardes, Pulisinic, etc. But even as Landon Donovan showed, some players excel against certain competition and then fall flat against others for mostly mental reasons. These traits are beyond physical. They are mental. And Jozy is yet another example as someone who doesn’t cut it per the standards that the USMNT SHOULD hold to but he has continued to get caps despite the revelation of his lack of international caliber time and time again for over eight years!

        Likewise there are likely many UNKNOWN players and prospects that have that special ability to perform internationally. They need to be unearthed. But to ask me to name the unknown….hold on, let go get my tarot cards.

      • Check out his scoring rate with/without LD. LD gifted him sooo many goals. At the Nashville USMNT v T&T, LD gifted Jozy at least 2 of his 3 goals to the point that my son and I are wondering aloud “what is he waiting on, he has an easy goal”. Then, “Oh, he is waiting on Jozy”.

      • bk,

        it would only be an asinine argument if you hadn’t already made the claim that “there are many guys out there that if given a chance would have done way better”. he’s simply asking you to back up your claim.

        and if you can, you should really go to ussf with it. they’re giving klinsmann millions to tread water; i’m sure they’d toss a couple mil your way if you proved that they just had to “start looking” for a better player, or something.

      • Scott: Landon made other players better no doubt, he made guys like Brian Ching serviceable players. Your argument loses a little legs when you look that he has maintained a goal every two game average over the last two years after LD retired, nor was he in the lineup for any of the four goals in 2014 (13 in 28 games). I don’t want to take the time to look through 2013, but at least the 3 against Bosnia were sans LD and just off the top of my head it was around 6 of 8 without Landon. Certainly early in his career you could say that, but as LD moved on and Jozy developed it hasn’t been that way. Landon is by far a better player, but that doesn’t diminish what Jozy has accomplished.

      • Bk here’s top US strikers since 2009 in MLS, only guys really scoring abroad would be Dempsey and Herculez Gomez (6 goals in 24 caps)

        2009: Cunningham (12 caps 1 goal) Casey (19:2) R.Findley (11:0)
        2010: Wondo (31:10) Edson Buddle (11:3) Casey
        2011: Wondo, Donovan, Brek Shea (moved to LB) C. Davies(17:4)
        2012: Wondo, Cooper (10:4) E. Johnson (63:19) A. Gordon
        2013: Mike Magee (no caps 21 goals never more than 7 in any other season) Jack McInerney, Juan Agudelo (20:3)
        2014: Zardes (23:3) Dempsey, Wondo, Donovan, Bruin 21 goals in 14-15 MLS, 2 cameos, on bench for ’13 GC but never played
        2015: Wondo, JOZY, Bruin, Dempsey, Davies

        Jack McInerney, Mike Magee, and Will Bruin are these the guys you were talking about everyone has had their chances. Jack Mac is still young only 23 and might still have a chance with the Nats, but has been traded by three different MLS teams in three years. Bruin didn’t show enough in 2013 to get in against Belize or Cuba in GC. Magee is a good professional who had one motivated year after being traded for Robbie Rogers, the rest have been average. The only other guy you might make a case for would be Andrew Wooten whose been average in the 2.Bundesliga.

      • I retract my initial statement. The Jozy homerism has apparently NOT subsided here at SBI. Serves me right for turning to this community in search of folks with reasonable eyes for talent. Underachievement lives to fight another day.

      • BK- You said there were many players who were better than Jozy but just hadn’t been given a shot. When asked who they were you instead thought an insult would bully people into believing your statement, but didn’t actually name anyone. When I give you a list of every American striker over the last 7 years that has done anything professionally, you claim homerism. Being honest about our player pool isn’t being a homer, its called being realistic. I’ll give you another chance give me one player who has shown at any level to be an international quality striker that we haven’t seen with the national team. Just one, anyone, oh but you hate underachieving so how about two?

    • Agree with this and with your subsequent comment: “The mark of a real world class player, the level that we should demand from the national team, is that he can create and convert goal scoring opportunities even where none exist.”

      I’ve never seen so many excuses made for any player by fans and media… poor service, Sunderland is not good, he’s not healthy, he lost his confidence, he’s depressed, etc. etc. And then the “he’s only X years old” excuse. At one point his youth was a reason to hold out hope that he would get better, but that ship has sailed. He’s in MLS now with a guaranteed starting job. The cake is baked.

      Reply
    • Bk here’s top US strikers since 2009 in MLS, only guys really scoring abroad would be Dempsey and Herculez Gomez (6 goals in 24 caps)

      2009: Cunningham (12 caps 1 goal) Casey (19:2) R.Findley (11:0)
      2010: Wondo (31:10) Edson Buddle (11:3) Casey
      2011: Wondo, Donovan, Brek Shea (moved to LB) C. Davies(17:4)
      2012: Wondo, Cooper (10:4) E. Johnson (63:19) A. Gordon
      2013: Mike Magee (no caps 21 goals never more than 7 in any other season) Jack McInerney, Juan Agudelo (20:3)
      2014: Zardes (23:3) Dempsey, Wondo, Donovan, Bruin 21 goals in 14-15 MLS, 2 cameos, on bench for ’13 GC but never played
      2015: Wondo, JOZY, Bruin, Dempsey, Davies

      Jack McInerney, Mike Magee, and Will Bruin are these the guys you were talking about everyone had their chances. Jack Mac is still young only 23 might still have a chance with Nats, but has been traded by three different MLS teams in three years. Bruin didn’t show enough in 2013 to get in against Belize or Cuba. Magee is a good professional who had one motivated year after being traded for Robbie Rogers the rest have been average. The only other guy you might make a case for would be Andrew Wooten whose been average in the 2.Bundesliga.

      Reply
  10. But if Jozy had have stayed, just imagine the goals he would have scored. Bicycle kicks, scorpion kicks, olimpicos…you name it he would have notched DOZENS per game.

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    • “Altidore” is incapable of even scoring that many goals on FIFA 16, playing in the ALJ League in Saudi Arabia, with the level-setting set on easy…

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    • This season, Defoe was not very good last season. Big Sams bunker and long ball strategy fits Defoe pretty well.

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      • Defoe was not very good last season.

        Perhaps by Defoe’s normal standards, within the first month on arriving at Sunderland Defoe had already eclipsed Altidore’s total goals for a season and a half.

        No matter the strategy or tactic, Defoe was the better player in this deal and it’s not even close.

      • Defoe scored 4 goals last season, yes better than Jozy at the Stadium of Light, Jozy also scored more goals in MLS than Defoe did in his one season. Toronto could argue shedding Defoe’s $6 million dollar salary allowed them to pay for Giovinco and thus their “best bit of business” as well.

      • 4.7 million or there abouts, not an even switch obviously, but that’s almost 2 million they could put towards Giovinco.

      • I see you’re math is off
        MLS salaries for 2015
        TOR Altidore Jozy F $ 4,750,000.00
        TOR Bradley Michael M $ 6,000,000.00
        TOR Giovinco Sebastian M $ 5,600,000.00

        MLS salaries 2014
        TOR Defoe Jermaine – $ 6,000,000.00

        Difference between Defoe and Altidore: $1,250,000 (not almost two)

        Any coach would pay $6,000,000 (the extra $1,250,000) to get a player like Defoe than lose $4,750,000 investing in Altidore ( imagine Wondolowski only makes $ 625,000.00, better scorer; Kamara Kei $ 400,000.00, better scorer; Piatti Ignacio $ 400,000.00, better player; Keane Robbie $ 4,500,000.00, Altidore not in the same class; Dos Santos Giovani $ 4,000,008.00, Altidore not in the same class)

      • Defoe made 6,180,000 but I apparently had him confused with Bradley who makes 6.5 million so I guess we are both off. All you’ve proven is that Altidore has a better agent. Who out of any of the players you mentioned would have been like “no don’t give me more money”. If teams want to pay it, its not the players fault.

      • What he MADE and what his SALARY is are two different things. So no you are off, I was talking about salary.

      • You want to argue salary vs guaranteed compensation? Toronto paid Defoe 6.18 million to play for them they paid Jozy 4.75 million, a difference of 1.43 million. When teams in any sport sign a player the signing bonus is divided out over the years of the contract. It saves the player on taxes and saves teams on cap room. The bottom line is Defoe agreed that he would receive 6.18 million for playing in Toronto not 6.

        http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-gets-few-perks-from-jermain-defoe-deal-1.2917263

        This article also shows my point, that Toronto actually came close to breaking even by trading Jozy for Defoe, and signing Giovinco (not as close as the article thought because Giovinco was able to play the whole season not just show up in July).

      • salary vs total wages are different I was talking about salary. Secondly TFC wouldnt have got Altidore if Defoe could have left under different terms or circumstances. What you don’t understand is a $4,750,000 Altidore is costing the team more in terms of profit per player return that a $6,000,000 Defoe (in other words in Altidore’s case his performance on the field is not worth more than $600,000 and you are just wasting $4,150,000).

      • Not really in this case as all the players we mentioned were DPs. You wanted to look at base salary not guaranteed compensation. For players that apply to the cap the difference would be to avoid their signing bonus and I suppose allocation money towards the cap. Since Bradley and Defoe are both DPs their guaranteed compensation is truly their salary (Jozy’s number is the same. It is in no way tied to performance therefore it is their salary.

      • Johnnyrazor

        Guaranteed Compensation is different from Base salary
        I Don’t know why you like arguing cluelessly but I’ll help you out

        Base salary is what you see on your paycheck. It is the amount per hour or per year that you are paid for performing your job.Base salary does not include any bonuses, benefits or perks associated with the job.

        Total compensation is everything the Franchise provides a player in exchange for working. It includes base salary, performance bonuses, benefits, perks and on-site amenities.

        so no Bradley and Defoe are both DPs but their guaranteed compensation is NOT truly their salary

        Example:
        Bradley has a base salary of $6,000,000 (paycheck), $500,000 for bonuses, benefits, perks and on-site amenities.

        Hope you got it

      • Just FYI so you can be educated for the future

        “The annual average guaranteed compensation number includes a player’s base salary and all signing and guaranteed bonuses annualized over the term of the player’s contract, including option years. For example, if a player has a base salary of $50,000, has a two-year contract with two one-year options and received a $10,000 bonus when he signed, his average annual guaranteed compensation would be $52,500 (base salary plus signing bonus ($10,000), with the signing bonus divided by the number of years covered by the contract (4)). The average annual guaranteed compensation number also includes any annual marketing bonus to be received in the current year and any agent’s fees annualized over the term of the contract. The average annual guaranteed compensation figure does not include performance bonuses because there is no guarantee that the player will hit those bonuses.” (notice nothing about amenities or perks, working out at the training center isn’t considered a health club membership fee I guess)

        Straight from the MLS Players Union, it includes signing bonuses, marketing fees (ie appearances the players make for the team) and agent fees (I’ll give you this one) not performance bonuses, onsite amenities, or perks.

        Guaranteed compensation is actually what these guys see on their paycheck hence the term “guaranteed”. Its probably not what you see and not the case in my profession either, but for pro athletes it is.

        And none of that really matters, the whole start to this tangent you and I have gone down was that Toronto was able to free up much of the money by trading Jozy for Defoe, to help pay for Giovinco. So in whatever form they paid or saved that money it was still paid, saved, and earned (the friendlies with Sunderland that Toronto gets all the profit from). Before you call someone clueless you should probably actually research what you are talking about.

      • “The annual average guaranteed compensation number includes a player’s base salary and all signing and guaranteed bonuses annualized over the term of the player’s contract”

        Educate yourself Johnnyrazor. No wonder you think Altidore is the Best current striker we have because you lack comprehension……If it INCLUDES base salary it CANNOT BE base salary. Base salary and what the player will get at the end of the year (total) ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Please tell me you understand that!!!! lol

      • ……and for the last time $6,180,000.00 spent on Defoe is a better investment than $4,750,000 spent on Altidore.

        You said (in your own words) “4.7 million or there abouts, not an even switch obviously, but that’s almost 2 million they could put towards Giovinco”… $1,430,000 is not, I repeat, NOT 2 MILLION (2,000,000).

        Again $4,750,000 on Altidore is wasting more money than putting $6,180,000 on a striker like Jermaine Defoe. in other words dumping 20,000 dollars on a honda Civic is more of a waste than spending 30,000 on a corvette.

    • The MLS salary structure is cockeyed in my opinion. Generally speaking you have about 80% of a team’s salary spent on 4 players. That makes a bad DP signing worse.

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  11. yep. even though it’ll be seen as a slight on jozy, i can’t imagine even he would disagree with this.

    they’re a bit of a different team now, but at the time, sunderland needed someone who could make something out of nothing. which is exactly what defoe does: he’ll never be considered world-class or anything, he’s not much of a team player, but he’s got a talent for turning sh!t into gold.

    jozy’s pretty much the opposite: very team-oriented, and can score consistently when he knows consistent opportunities will come, but he’s definitely not the kind of striker you want when you only get one/two half-chances per game.

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  12. To be fair Sunderland isn’t really known for making good deals, so there isn’t much competition for “best deal in a long time”.

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  13. You can pretty much say whatever you want about a person as long as you say “with all due respect,” or “no offense, but . . .” The other person is not allowed to get mad or be offended in those situations. If they do, they don’t understand the rules.

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  14. Big Sam isn’t discovering the hot water here, he is simply stating the obvious…if USMNT is to rely on Altidore to lead the attack, mediocrity is guaranteed, for years to come. He must have the worst first touch of a professional footballer…the ball bounces off his leg like it’s bouncing off an oak tree…

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    • sorry but i think that award goes to Zardes…..kid has lead for feet as far as touch is concerned but i will say that he has been playing extremely well of late!

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    • Defoe is much more productive than Altidore for Sunderland, from that limited perspective, perhaps, but Sunderland landed back in another relegation fight so I don’t know that it really kicked the ball much forward, so Big Sam is crowing about what, one week earlier off the drop? How about actually making the team competitive.

      From TFC’s perspective, Defoe wanted out so there is some value to something in return. Question is if you take a solid MLS Altidore or whether it would be another Giovinco they missed. You look at Lampard and you can do far worse.

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    • I am a Dynamo fan and rarely see TFC, but I noticed Giovinco playing the center striker role for TFC last game I saw on TV. Jozy was on a wing, more running at people, less pivot. If Jozy often looks sloppy in a striker role, does he actually play there anymore? Setting aside that I see him as a Kenny Cooper type who looks like a big lunk striker but actually plays like the poacher running off the target man.

      There are a few things like that where if Tinkerman Klinsmann prizes so much game time and game tape, how does he not see he’s playing him out of position? Not sure if Jozy should even start in a wide role, either, but that would at least be what he’s used to for club. I don’t think you can have half a team out of recent position feel very comfortable.

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      • Jozy and Kenny for that matter have always looked better coming in on the strong foot from the LW. I’ll never forget the game he scored a brace for RBN when he and Juan Pablo snatched victory away from Beckham and the much lauded Galaxy at the Meadowlands. That double scissor step over and finish was amongst the finest moments of the then 17 year old wünderkind. The Gal’s right side of defense were getting out-muscled, then later out-quicked by the “lunky” wingman Altidore. He and JP Angel were a great pair.

        I miss watching that version of Altidore … The goal i described was very much like the way he played when he first went to the “Yellow Submarine”. I think he scored his first goal for Villareal coming in on his stronger foot from the LW.

        To be fair, when he settled in Holland he was great success as a deeper “9” because he was able to connect through the middle … play to either wing … then get lumbering at defenders who were then out of position and had no chance to muscle or out run him to the zone where the crosses were coming in.

        I truly wish the US had some wing play. What could be with this guy and two competent wingers.

        [SIGH]

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