U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Jurgen Klinsmann was visibly upset with Jermaine Jones’ sending off against Ecuador, and now, U.S. Soccer is set to appeal that decision.
The U.S. Soccer Federation announced on Friday that the team will not only look for Jones’ suspension to be overturned, but that Bobby Wood also have his yellow card rescinded from the USMNT’s match against Ecuador.
An official protest has been filed against the cards issued to Jermaine Jones and Bobby Wood in #USAvECU
— U.S. Soccer MNT (@USMNT) June 17, 2016
“Our argument on Jones is that it’s a misinterpretation of Law 12, which was amended June 1 and states that contact to the face or head shall not warrant a red card if the force was ‘negligible,'” said U.S. Soccer press officer Michael Kammarman.
Ecuador attacker Antonio Valencia initiated the conflict in the 51st minute of Thursday’s 2-1 win for the U.S., when he appeared to be fouled by Alejandro Bedoya. The Manchester United midfielder then kicked out at Bedoya, sparking an uproar from the U.S. players.
Jones became involved in the scuffle, confronting Ecuador’s Michael Arroyo and putting a hand to his face. While the contact appeared to be minimal, Jones was sent off soon after, while Wood received a yellow card for getting involved.
With Wood receiving yellow cards in consecutive matches, he, along with Jones and Bedoya, are currently set to miss Tuesday’s Copa America semifinal against either Argentina or Venezuela.
Both appeals denied. That sux!
It just really, really sucks that the Ecuadorian player takes a cheap shot to get a deserved yellow/probably straight red, and b/c of poor game management, we lose 2 key players for a total of 2 full games and a half game.
How long does it take to decide these issues? Who makes the decision, a joint CONMEBOL/CONCACF appointed committee. a CONMEBOL appointed committee?
Worth a shot. Even if one gets overturned that would be a big boost. They’ve both had strong tournaments but I think Wood is harder to replace with this squad.
This straight red is the equivalent of a controversial handball call. The intent is unclear, whether the hand made contact is unclear, but it is clear that Jones put himself into a situation that he could have avoided by not having his hand up in the first place. Notice Bradley pointing to his head looking Jones right after the incident. That’s the universal sign for “use your head.” He knows Jones did something wrong.
Just like the ref Bradley is reacting to what he thought he saw, Jones smack Arroyo, he isn’t watching Jones and just sees the end product and responds accordingly. Watch the whole clip Jones is trying to keep the peace the whole time. Its Brooks and Arroyo that are doing all the shoving and Arroyo who forces “violent” contact. Soccer players touch each others faces all the time at least two or three times a match, although more common in Europe I think.
Soccer players do NOT touch each others faces in such situations, let alone two or three times per game. It has been a mandated interpretation of the rule for a while now that any contact with the face in anything like an aggressive context is a straight red. You won’t find an equivalent contact to the face that does not result in a sending off if you look for a long time. This contact was very slight (perhaps even “negligible”) and so the card might be rescinded; but it was also pretty clearly the result of a deliberate act (what on earth were his hands doing up there if not to make contact with the face?), and so I am pretty sure the card will stand, especially with the exacerbating factor that Jones did not immediately leave the field.
Lmbo at Brooks reaction
Its not like JJ snatched the refs scorecard out his pockets and ripped it to shreds. This is small potatos. Looking at all yall with my best DeuceFace.
Jones is 33 years old? He knows better!! We had a clear 11-10 situation and he blew it…period!
Love the guy but he screwed up on this one.
I do give credit to Arroyo for not dropping to the ground like he’d been knocked out by Muhammad Ali.
While they’re at it they should overturn every foul they ever called on a Clint Dempsey dive.
Ok, any card received by Ecuador on a Dempsey dive is hereby rescinded, as is the coaches ejection for throwing a water bottle onto the field and let’s throw in Valencia’s red card. They are all eligible for the loser bracket semi final. Oh wait there is no loser’s bracket, my bad enjoy your vacation Ecuador.
Damn sourpuss, you must be extremely worried about Chile. Some day you all will be able to hang with the big boys 😉
I’m not worried about anybody it’s just that the constant whining about the referees is ignorant embarrassing
Win some lose some. Move on with dignity.
Yeah there is no doubt whining doesn’t help, sometimes it’s justified. Still doesn’t help. But there is a difference between making questionable calls and not doing your job. Especially when you don’t do your job and it severely impacts the game/future games. This scenario it’s debatable and I think that is what is going on here.
Marcus- Been plenty of whining from the S. American sides this tournament as well. Ecuador’s bench threw trash onto the field during the game, I’ve never seen a display like that from a national team, and then the coach proceeded to whine about it in his press conference as well.
Weak. It’s not their fault we only have one half-way good player per position.
Let’s just stop it withe whining all around.
I do agree complaining about the Wood yellow is whining, debating whether what the 4th official thought he saw was really a red card offense is what makes soccer fun to watch and debate as Alexi Lalas would say.
Marcus I tend to agree, we should be above this. That our players were holding Jones back, pushing him away, means there was something going on. But you nailed the big issue which is that we aren’t a very deep team and so we’re always replacing a capable player with a capable but slightly flawed player.
Still, I think it is a good thing in the long run that we test the bench, we test Klinsmann’s ingenuity, and so Nagbe will get his 90 minutes perhaps, Bradley will hopefully come more out of his shell (he’s played ok and he’s consistent at this pundit-preferred position but rarely exemplary), Fabian Johnson will line up out wide maybe… who knows and who cares what the solution is but I like that there is a problem.
There are positives in everything. It would have been nice if US soccer looked at it that way. Instead, yeah, we’re always going to be complaining because our bias of course thinks we’re right.
Ives had a good video of the Jones Red card on his instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BGv0bC6lQPg/
I don’t know how you can rule it a violent action when Jones is slowing raising his hands and Arroyo hits Jones elbow and forces his hand towards his face. The action is caused by Arroyo’s “violent” action not Jones. That being said I don’t see anyway the red card is overturned. If they didn’t overturn Beasler’s card against Campbell in qualifying they won’t overturn any card ever.
I think Ives has it wrong here, it looks to me like Jermaine’s hand touches his face before Arroyo touches his elbow, but yes the elbow touch did make it look a lot more aggressive than it was. If the rule says “negligible” as was stated here elsewhere, I can see it being overturned, but Jermaine was stupid to put himself in that position in the first place. Guys need to stop touching other guys’ faces in this game.
I have to agree with Shaggie here, though it’s not popular. You have to watch this slow-mo in combination with the regular speed. Jones is coming in aggressively with the intention of making contact to the face. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see this being overturned.
I went and read Law 12 Violent Action and it in now way applies here unless you see Jones action as a punch which it is clearly not.
Arroyo hitting his elbow is what causes Jones hand to brush across his face. Yes, Jones is going to place his hands on his face as many European players do. If you look at the entire event from Valencia kicking Bedoya to the showing of the cards Jones is playing peacemaker throughout. Brooks knocks Jones into Arroyo and Arroyo says something to JJ, who goes to place his hands on his face to say chill bro. Arroyo wacks his hand and makes it look like Jones hits him except in real time their is virtually no reaction to the slap. I guarantee if JJ punches you in the jaw you are going to have a reaction.
But again I think its highly unlikely it gets overturned. If this happens in league play I could see it be overturned, but it seems like it never happens in International Play to many people involved for anything to be agreed upon I would imagine.
I don’t know what it is with European players and the touching of each other’s faces doesn’t seem to happen in MLS, anyone watch a lot of Liga MX do players do it in the Americas?
Great example of besler and Campbell. That flop enraged me, still does actually lol
I’m not sure which Ecuadorian player is behind Valencia but it appears he put his hand on Beslers face…
Looks like it in the slow mo but its Paredes, and he misses him by a foot as he pushes Brooks away on the shoulder. Truly we are probably lucky Brooks doesn’t get a card for running in from down field and shoving Arroyo.
You run over and swarm a player you are asking for trouble. He’s been around long enough to know that. Not saying he deserved the red but he can’t be surprised either.
JJ didn’t swarm the player he’s shielding Valencia, to keep the situation from escalating which he was able to calm Valencia and gets him to walk away (because he knew his night was done) Arroyo swarms him for no reason, which causes Brooks to shove Arroyo. Arroyo thinks its JJ and starts talking smack, JJ raises his hands to pat him on the face and tell him to chill out, Arroyo hits his arm sideways across his face (personally I think there was definitely contact, but not violent or intentional).
Around :52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6BJa-HlC3g
Good point Johnny, thanks for posting. I can see reasons to rescind but if the cards stand, which they probably will there is nobody to blame but the US. I will say the wood situation is a real head scratcher for me. Honestly wish the cards started over after the groups everybody wants to see the best squads on the field.
Wood’s foul could be seen as a yellow card offense, but it happened because the ref started play while Jones was still on the field after his red card which caught the US on the back foot. Wood almost had to foul his man or he would have had a clear lan down the sideline to send in an open cross. This was a mistake by the referee, and although i dont think it will be overturned, I think we atleast have an argument for it to be overturned.
Correct. Imagine a goal had been scored while a red carded player was still leaving the pitch…… Uproars would be everywhere. Is there a rule that play cannot resume until a player leaves the pitch? Whether it’s for a sub or a red card?
I don’t think it will get overturned but I definitely think they have an argument.
And UCB, the question isn’t ‘did he foul?’, it’s ‘should that foul have counted considering play should not have resumed?’ If a red is giving a holding call in football and the team goes and hikes the ball while the ref is doing so, should that play count? Obviously with the clock rules in soccer it’s a different case but the macro conceptual argument still remains. If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it….. 🙂
Oh yea, and fight on…
“If a ref is giving a holding call in football and the team goes and hikes the ball while the ref is doing so, should that play count? Obviously with the clock rules in soccer it’s a different case but the macro conceptual argument still remains. If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it…”
No just no. You are comparing two different sports with two completely different set of rules. A better comparison is “if a sub is currently being made so play is stopped, and a player is walking off the pitch slowly, doing the whole take your time to sub out thing, and a player from the other team goes at him with a crunching tackle, it will still be a red card”. Doesn’t matter whether the ball should or should not have been put in play yet. In soccer “dangerous contact” is dangerous contact no matter when it happens. Also, remember that the ref is the one that decides when play is back on and he said play was back on, and then Wood charged in, so it’s a moot point.
UCLA, although i dont fully agree with the holding analogy, yours is even worse. That example would be a straight red for someone attacking another player without the ball, and really has nothing to do with this situation. A better example would be if a team asked for 10 yards on a free kick and while the ref was backing the ball up, the player passed the ball and the ref let it play and the defending teams player has to make a last ditch foul to stop the play and receives a card. The play shouldnt have started till the wall was set and the whistle had blown, but the ref ignores the rules and lets the player play on.
Yes it comes down to what the ref calls on the field but refs are humans and make mistakes and thats why there is an appeal process.
UCLA agree with you on everything except your last point. If the ref had signaled for play to begin, why did he bring play back to the spot of the Bedoya foul instead of where Wood committed the foul further up field? I’m not sure the play ever started, Wood still deserves the foul, just goes to show the ref had no control at this point. If he hadn’t started play why wasn’t he chirping his whistle to stop the play, thus Wood wouldn’t have committed the bad challenge to stop the break.
I need to see the play again from beginning to end and see what the ref is doing/signaling as it happens. Fox sucks with the timing of their replays. Many times crucial live-action stuff is missed because of their replay timing.
I think the US is trying to make the argument here that exists when play is stopped. A better example than the sub situation is an offsides call. If a foul happens after an offsides call, the foul isn’t enforced due to the stoppage of play. Here there was a stoppage of play that should have been enforced. The US’s argument is the foul would never have happened if the ref applied the rules correctly.
H-Town I could be wrong but I don’t think that is correct. If a foul happens after an offside call then yes it’s pretty much ignored because it doesn’t matter play was stopped and it’s just a common foul, BUT if a hard yellow or red card type of foul happens I’m pretty sure the card will still be given. Remember yellow and red cards are all about reckless/excessive/dangerous contact (except for handball and dissent and last-man cards).
DLOA I don’t disagree with you here I can see both sides but the if the tree falls in the woods analogy doesn’t work there at all.
The whole “the game shouldn’t have been restarted” idea is off-point.” Jones is more likely to get an extra game suspension for “failing to leave the field on a timely manner.” I suspect his tournament is done even if we advance because of this.
With that said, the referee should NEVER have restarted the game with hone still on the field. Furthermore, the refereeing crew is collectively at fault for the Ecuador coach’s failure to leave the field. That is INEXCUSABLE and this entire crew should be sent home immediately.
Many, many moons ago I got absolutely excoriated by a referee assessor for being the 4th official who let a red carded player remain on the bench in an NPSL game. He completely ripped me a new one. FYI, it was my first match ever as a 4th official. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for a FIFA ref to make this mistake in a major international tournament.
UCLA not Fox’s fault they get the international feed just like in the world cup, CL, or the Olympics. They aren’t in charge of what is being shown.
Are you sure about that? Because Fox and Univision don’t show the same thing. They appear to be on different feeds.
That is what Lalas said either on twitter or his podcast I don’t remember which.
Sorry Bruin went back and found it it was Landon on twitter that said Fox is using the international feed and don’t have control of when the replays are shown.
Especially the Woods card, where there was nothing physical, and only back and forth trash talk between players after the Ecu. player’s aggressive dirty foul. But also with Jones literally no aggression the total lack of any intent to injure, and including that the call didn’t even come from the referee, but instead from one of the assistants.. very bogus straight red! The US always seems to have the refereeing target on their backs in these important Copa’s . Like the deluge of cards in the Paraguay game.. urgh.. Like going down to 10 for the 2H in their last two matches. For all the abusive ‘play-on’s” they seem to endure.
I don’t feel that I’m whining.. but appreciate getting set straight if I’m off base here. Thanks..
I believe you are misinformed but that’s ok because its not your fault. The Wood card wasn’t for trash talking, it was for an actual foul. You just never saw it because the live broadcast didn’t show it. They were running a replay at the time of the Jones situation and didn’t show the Wood foul which happened right after. I only saw the replay of the Wood foul and yellow card after the game in the Post-Game Show.
Thanks for your explanation Bruin. I’m still also confused on why they (Roldan) even re-started the game while the Jones, Valencia red card situation was still ongoing, and they were still on the pitch.. Some crazy things for sure.
The fourth a official who is clearly a letter of the law kind of guy also never made sure their manager left the pitch after he was ejected either.
I haven’t been able to find any video of the Wood yellow. Anybody got one?
I see zero chance of the Bobby Wood yellow being rescinded, that was a clear foul and subjective yellow card decision by the ref. If that can be overturned then every yellow card ever is now fair game. But the Jones one was a unique situation and I see how that can be overturned. I am hopeful that it is.
Jones was still on the field when Wood got his yellow and the ball should have never been put into play.
I want Wood to play but I don’t see it happening. If what you say is true and that’s what the USMNT argues, it still won’t matter because the ball doesn’t need to be in play for a yellow card to be earned and given. You can say that the ball should have never been in play yet, but that doesn’t mean that Wood sliding hard into that player magically didn’t happen. It still happened.
That would be my argument. The play should never have happened, thus the foul should never have occurred. Who knows what would have happened if the ref waited the extra minute for JOnes to leave and where the US would have been organized for the start of the play.
all hypotheticals, but quite frankly the play should never have happened
UCLA, I agree it most likely wont be overturned, and the ball doesnt have to be in play for a yellow, but i think they will argue that the yellow only occurred because of a ref’s mistake. If the defense would have been set, wood wouldnt have had to make the tackle to stop what was an unfair counter attack due to the ref not following the laws of the game. Its not a bullet proof argument, but it is still a valid one.
One could also argue that, if the ref gave the card for a “foul during play” and so stated in his report, that that simply did not happen because the game had not officially resumed. Violent conduct would then be the appropriate call. Strange situation which became stranger when the ref failed to properly expel the Ecuador coach. Talk about losing control of a game…
I thought you can still be carded even if the ball is no longer in play. This happens all the time when coaches and players get carded after a game.
Louis, did you read any of these comments?
Bruin.. Sure hope you can link a clip of Woods YC.. I must have missed the aggression during the telecast. thx Oh and Fight On 😉
They didn’t show it during the match that’s why so many people are confused. I only saw the foul and yellow card during the post game show. During the actual game, they were showing replays of the Jones red instead of the live-action and that’s when the Wood foul happened. I don’t have a link.
They did show a replay probably fifteen minutes after it happened, it was worthy of a yellow.
Is there a way that the jones red card would be reduced to a yellow (rather than reversed entirely)? Given he picked up a yellow vs Paraguay, this would still mean he he is suspended for the semi (though it would make him avail for the final)
Not sure this is allowed under the appeals process, but if it is I’d say it sounds like a predictable “split the baby” outcome.
Anybody know how this works?
It’s my understanding that by using the ‘card system’ that they used for this Copa, that YC accumulations go away only for the final. The only way a player can miss the final due to cards is if he picked up a straight red in the semi’s. The commentators in the Fox1 studio (Lalas/Wagner et/al) discussed that prior to the beginning of the tournament.
Couple things. The report makes mention of Wood receiving a card from the “scuffle” after Valencia kicked out at Bedoya. That is not the case, just for clarity. Wood received it on a stupid tackle that was worthy of a yellow card, so I don’t see how that gets rescinded, regardless of the ball being played with Jones on the field or not. As for Jones’ red card, I think that was a bit much. Not even the Ecuadorian players were looking for that, and we all know that players feign injury and start waving the fake card in their hand when they are whining about a challenge or confrontation. Jones’ card should be rescinded since it was inadvertent contact to the face when he was trying to push Arryo (I believe) and it was minor at best. Wood is not going to have his card rescinded, but hey, why not try I guess. Maybe we can get Bedoya’s dropped too…
If I am incorrect with anything above, please let me know, but I believe that is what occurred.
If you watch the replay its the US players that react with “oh nuts Jermain just punched that guy, get him away.”
Only case I could see the US build is if they can string together a series of similar or like fouls committed by Ecuador like the Woods foul. Showing the build up and what was being permitted by the referee in the run of play. Typical of many intense aggressive matches were the aggressors don’t receive the detrimental cards but everyone starts to receive cards once the game gets out of control.