The U.S. men’s national team will meet its greatest foe for a spot in the Concacaf Nations League Final later this summer.
Mexico will oppose the USMNT in June 15th’s semifinal round following the conclusion of group stage action on Tuesday night. The competitive showdown at Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas will come just two months after El Tri and the Americans clash in the first-ever Continental Clasico on April 19.
The Concacaf Nations League Final is set for June 18.
The USMNT claimed top spot in the Final Four after finishing with 10 points in four group stage matches. Anthony Hudson’s squad are reigning champions after the Americans defeated Mexico 3-2 in the 2021 final.
Mexico topped Group A with eight points despite winning only two of its four group stage matches. A 2-2 draw with Jamaica was all Diego Cocca’s squad needed to edge the Reggae Boyz to top spot.
Panama and Canada will meet in the other semifinal matchup after winning their respective groups on Tuesday. Panama’s 1-0 victory over Costa Rica clinched top spot in Group B following Jose Figardo’s second-half winning goal for the visitors.
Canada routed Honduras 4-1 at BMO Field to claim top spot in Group C. Cyle Larin set the tone with a three-minute brace in the first half while Jonathan David and Jonathan Osorio added second-half goals of their own.
Gio and Pulisic out with illness for the weekend. Hudson said Wes had the flu during camp. Perhaps we now know why the team looked lackluster against ES. Musah was fasting for Ramadan and wasn’t able to eat until midway thru first half as well
Yeah especially Pulisic who definitely didn’t look like his self against ES. Good on all of them for fighting through it and playing anyway.
So I ask what is more important Nations League or Gold Cup? How many players from the nations league team will overlap and be on the Gold Cup team? Strong possibility we some u20 players on the Gold Cup team. Players like Wiley, Neal, Cowell, Sullivan, Paxton Aaronson, Noel Buck, Kevin Paredes.
I think a lot of that depends on if the new manager is in place and how many of those guys are making July transfers. Berhalter’s philosophy of letting guys go train with their clubs generally didn’t work out well for guys. Might also depend on how many of those guys go to U20 WC.
if you think some of them are ready to trial as senior players, have them skip U20 duty and play in NL or GC this summer. we have plenty of history of “graduating” the best age groupers straight to the senior team eg pulisic, mckennie, reyna, donovan. nothing says they have to play U20 and that team’s friendly results suggest a short tournament this time. historically we did use to hold over some players for second summer tournaments but it was in the context of no NL, GC being mostly MLS, and then sending a B team to something like copa america to get whooped. MLS players are in-season in the summer so you are just picking where they will play games. euros that is their rest period. the polarity has switched to mostly european and summer is their rest time. so pick one and leave it at that. we don’t need more injuries.
For someone who generally disagrees with USSF on everything they do, you sure do use “what we’ve historically done” as a justification for your ideas.
JR,
Most of the scheduling and selection issues that IV describes were just part of the realities that the USSF were forced to deal with.
“to hold over some players for second summer tournaments but it was in the context of no NL”
NL was established to give the weaker CONCACAF programs more regular competition. It seems to be great for them, not so much for the US and Mexico whose main consolation is another money making El Tri/USMNT game.
The down side is that glamour friendlies are much harder to arrange. NL game vs Grenada or friendly vs France or Italy?
“,GC being mostly MLS”
That shouldn’t change much
“then sending a B team to something like copa america to get whooped.”
The Gold Cup was prioritized because of the now dead Confederations Cup.
Held one year before the World Cup in the same country and in many of the same venues some people saw it as the perfect World Cup dress rehearsal .
For example Bob’s 2009 Confed Cup run certainly helped his 2010 WC run in South Africa.
Bob had to win the 2007 Gold Cup, our Confederation’s Championship to qualify for the 2009 Confed Cup. Which is why he sent the B team to the Copa America that summer.
They didn’t have enough players who could be scheduled for both tournaments that summer. If Clint, for example, had played in both, he would have had no summer break at all.
And contrary to IV’s condescending dismissal, while less potent, in 2010, this group would send seven players to the 2010 World Cup, having gained valuable team developmental experience from a tough tournament like Copa America.
All this whining and panty twisting about no experience leading into Qatar?
This is one way to remedy that. Actually play teams that are worth a fuck in competitive games.
COPA AMERICA Squad 2007:
Marvell Wynne, Jay DeMerit. Bobby Boswell, Benny Feilhaber
Heath Pearce, Danny Califf, Hérculez Gómez, Eddie Johnson
Charlie Davies, Eddie Gaven, Jimmy Conrad, Jonathan Bornstein
Ben Olsen, Drew Moor. Sacha Kljestan, Kyle Beckerman
Kasey Keller (c) ,Ricardo Clark, Taylor Twellman , Justin Mapp
Brad Guzan ,Lee Nguyễn
JR: it’s not complicated, i think they have gotten dumber more recently. the foot skills and ground passing are better, the players more talented, but the coaching and international soccer sense has regressed. they were smarter before. i am criticizing them now. duh.
before, they used to be content that reyna or mcbride showed up maybe 10 games a year. at some point this pivoted to the landon “call me every game” model. i don’t think that’s gone well in terms of health, injuries, and mental health.
i think part of that is they actually believe the coach and their system are behind all this. i think the coach is a marginal influence.
there is limited correlation between how you do in regional tournaments and world cup success. i think it’s like 1 team that went back to back in recent memory. in reality italy misses quali and england is average.
you’re trading in the malarkey where a team is its schedule which 2018 disproved. that team was run through a wood chipper and didn’t look any good for about 3 years. to me it often has to do with the US tends to see such events as games for the select unit as opposed to a proving ground. as such we don’t respond to the results.
the point to these games is not supposed to be to back pat ourselves. it’s to test the unit. if we lose in these tournaments the unit should change.
“you’re trading in the malarkey where a team is its schedule which 2018 disproved. that team was run through a wood chipper and didn’t look any good for about 3 years. to me it often has to do with the US tends to see such events as games for the select unit as opposed to a proving ground. as such we don’t respond to the results.”
?? Wood chipper? Dave’s 2018 “non-Dad” friendly tour proved nothing. That wasn’t a team. It was a traveling young All star show, MB90 not allowed.
You can’t take any of that seriously.
Bosnia and Herzegovina 28-Jan-18 0–0
Paraguay 27-Mar-18 1–0
Bolivia 28-May-18 3–0
Republic of Ireland 2-Jun-18 1–2
France 9-Jun-18 1–1
Brazil 7-Sep-18 0–2
Mexico 11-Sep-18 1–0
Colombia 11-Oct-18 2–4
Peru 15-Oct-18 1–1
England 15-Nov-18 0–3
Italy 20-Nov-18 0–1
The USMNT is very limited in who it can schedule.
It has NL and Gold Cup commitments ( half ass crap opponents on the field).
It has the January camp.
After that it gets tight and even if you can schedule great opponents, it is still only on a friendly basis which means the intensity of the opposition is unpredictable and likely to be watered down.
The main value of these games is they they give the players and staff a chance to get organized and perform as a team.
“the point to these games is not supposed to be to back pat ourselves. it’s to test the unit. if we lose in these tournaments the unit should change.”
What a load of shit.
Pulling together a bunch of players who haven’t seen each other for a month or more, then giving them a day or two of training and then playing an opponent who they may never have played before is no test.
It’s a shit show.
But that’s the life of a national team.
Which is why if you think the person who will “change the unit ” isn’t absolutely invaluable then you are largely delusional.
The USMNT rarely has the luxury of swapping out a winger and a full back, for example, because they want to test another equally competent pair.
The drop off between the starter and their backup is not as steep as it was but it’s still steep.
Now if, for example , you swap out Weah for Brenden or Gio, you’re not so much changing the unit, you’re changing the formation, because those three players are all very different and the team will play differently.
The true back up to Weah is not Gio or Brenden, it’s Ariolla
He will only get in if someone needs to rest or has been injured. or if Gregg feels he needs some PT.
That’s why Gregg had to run his regulars into the ground during the group stage.
We don’t have many decent players. which is why a top flight coach , who knows how to make the most out of what we do have, is #1 on the “needs” list.
The USSF has little control over the quality of the player pool .
But they can hire a competent manager.
Why is Alex Mendez never given a call up?! We could use him for depth too if theirs an injury.
i think we need someone like that who can do dead balls, take pot shots top of the D. even if just off the bench. the free kick service was crap again this week. we could use more cheapies.
same thing ledezma and a couple others who are more precision machines. i expect ledezma is rising in their eyes since he’s gonna be playing now. not like he’s changed but it matters to this regime.
this is one think i think is horrible about GB’s theories is to me the more yards the ball needs to travel in more passes the more likely you aren’t completing them all. that and it’s show-offy. i like that mckennie pass. bing, boom, goal. not a lot of unnecessary adornment but still pretty. free kicks are kind of that way. 1, 2, 3 touches, in the net.
Funny…when McKennie made that pass I thought to myself…there’s Berhalter’s verticality he was always preaching.
Ledezma tore his ACL and was out for 12 months and played 159 first team minutes for PSV in the 12 months since returning. In the last 12 months he had 1g 2a in 13 appearances for PSV II. So yeah he’s clearly hasn’t been playing at the same level he was in Nov 2020 because he had a significant injury. Being NYCFC should give him the minutes to get back into 2020 form.
R. The Imperative Voice
“i think we need someone like that who can do dead balls, take pot shots top of the D. even if just off the bench. the free kick service was crap again this week. we could use more cheapies.”
There’s nothing cheap about goals off of free kicks.
“same thing ledezma and a couple others who are more precision machines. i expect ledezma is rising in their eyes since he’s gonna be playing now. “
Richie , a long time favorite of mine, is a very “technical and creative” player who ultimately will thrive in a central role but I don’t know why you mention him.
“not like he’s changed but it matters to this regime.”
As JR noted, Richie’s biggest problem is that just as he was starting to break out he had a serious knee injury and is only really getting back now. Gregg never got to see the “real “ Ritchie.
That absence hurt him a lot. He’s fallen behind guys like Luca DLT. And sometimes you never make that up. I suspect his future would be better with Mexico but who knows.
“this is one think i think is horrible about GB’s theories is to me the more yards the ball needs to travel in more passes the more likely you aren’t completing them all. that and it’s show-offy.”
So what? Some long risky passes are safer than others. Some short, safe passes are a waste of time.
And if you are attacking, percentage completion is not really relevant like it is for quarterbacks in the NFL.
In soccer, as an attacking player, you can have a terrible pass completion percentage for your attacking passes but if you get just one in and a score results, there is a good chance that you have had a good game.
“i like that mckennie pass. bing, boom, goal. not a lot of unnecessary adornment but still pretty. free kicks are kind of that way. 1, 2, 3 touches, in the net.”
??What does “unnecessary adornment” mean?
If you can score with one pass do so. But sometimes it takes 2 or even 3 or 4 passes. What matters is, sooner or later, you score.
I’m pretty sure most every team or player scores with the minimum number of passes they can manage.
Unless you’re Ronaldinho or George Best, very few players or teams in history have ever been able to just “toy” with the opposition like that.
MOO: if there is one thing that has stood out this year it’s we have been splitting the backs with passes more than in 4 years. sonora had a similar pass in january. what i’ve generally seen for GB’s term is us constantly feeding it wide. but you may be being sarcastic. i wish this was a lot more vertical as i think we have more value in players like weah built around speed. but there are few games i have seen where we got out and ran, like CR friendly or honduras WCQ second half. most of the time this is a plodding slow build wide crossing half court offense you see coming a mile away and that puts little foot speed pressure on opponents.
we need cheaper goals and chances with fewer opponents back. we aren’t so stunning we can play half court like we’re barca.
V: you’re confused. maybe you never played “direct” soccer where you favor chances over possession. you start doing that and yes you can score goals in a handful of passes. i used to. had a goal once in a men’s tournament 3 total passes from kickoff covering most of the field — back pass kickoff to LB. LB skip pass across the back to me at RB sitting roughly edge of my box. i had deliberately set myself up wide as they were playing narrow. i have acres of space, i hit an 80 or so yard swerver pass like mckennie did into the run of a forward, who spins his man, onto the keeper, goal. 3 passes, 15 seconds from kickoff. that’s men’s league players. these are pros.
i don’t think you understand “cheap.” cheap is sitting top of the D take a shot, goal. cheap is goals off corners and kicks. one pass, goal.
to me the fetish for endless passing only serves two purposes. one is showing off. i personally hated it when it was fashionable to goal kick to backs and make us build 100 yards every time. too early of pressure — it invites the press — too long to build to score. i am for shrinking the field and getting it done faster with fewer passes.
second purpose is stalemate/running the other team to death. it’s not a scoring style for most teams. most teams aren’t barca. most teams are semi technical at best. they are then just trying to play keepaway more than create. keepaway is used to keep the score static or to run the other guy to exhaustion. i think in practice the US is more about running its opponents than actually trying to break them down. as shown by in the final third we cross it all the time.
i want to see us play balls to feet in the box for dempsey style finishing. i then want to see us chase cheap goals. dead balls. corners. the odd perimeter shot. 30 pass goals are like once a year and a lot of work to get right. get some easy offense.
Since the new manager took over he’s been playing like 10-15 minutes off the bench. He plays every week so I don’t think he’s hurt. They’ve switched formations too. Only has 1g 2a this season. Hopefully he’ll make himself available for GC.
He’s not good enough.
If we had unlimited substitution, being a dead ball specialist, would be very useful but otherwise it’s not enough to get him a call up.
do you folks not get “tactical substitution?” everyone doesn’t have to “profile” as a potential 90′ guy. part of the US’ problem is the whole roster seems to be would-be starters or hustle players. a smart bench has a variety of tactical uses available. players who can play a different style. players who are good at dead balls. players with speed. they don’t have to be 90′ stars. they only have to offer some useful change of pace or specific skill set. you get the idea that day their skill set is on. you throw on that different look. speed on a tired defense. height and crossing on a short opponent.
i think the US and its fanbase have regressed because the idea now seems to be literally everyone fits the profile and is like a mirror image of a similar starter. half a brain the usual idea with a bench is what you have been doing for 60-70′ isn’t working and you need a goal fast. you don’t do that swapping identicals. you do that changing what you’re trying to accomplish. but this is anathema to this staff and their US fans because we don’t do adjustments, we whirr away with a style for 90′ and changing it would be admitting we messed up, either with that style in general, or that some days it’s not on.
to me that’s the epitome of arrogance and stubbornness. a good coach is able to adjust. that includes trying other things and players with 30′ specific skill sets.
to me we need someone where if we are getting kicks but no service we can start getting better balls in.
Mr. IV,
“do you folks not get “tactical substitution?” everyone doesn’t have to “profile” as a potential 90′ guy. part of the US’ problem is the whole roster seems to be would-be starters or hustle players. a smart bench has a variety of tactical uses available. players who can play a different style. players who are good at dead balls. players with speed. they don’t have to be 90′ stars. they only have to offer some useful change of pace or specific skill set. you get the idea that day their skill set is on. you throw on that different look. speed on a tired defense. height and crossing on a short opponent.”
Are you and Gregg a related hive mind?
You think alike. You both focus on a tactical wrinkle, like “tactical substitution” and think you’re the only person who ever thought of it, like Gregg’s Fake 9 .
You also think that because it’s your idea and it is genius, then any player that you choose can make it work. Because it’s you doing the choosing.
Well, every tactical concept you’ve mentioned in this thread is standard old news. I’m sure even every American coach in MLS is well aware of them. I’ll bet Thierry Henry is too.
What matters is not the particular tactic.
What matters is the player.
All of Gregg’s genius tactical nous could not make the Fake 9 work because he insisted on having Lletget and Ferreira play it and those guys were not good enough to make it work.
You seem to think Mendez is good enough to make your genius “tactical substitution” work.
Maybe by 2026 he’ll be good enough but right now I don’t see any reason to advance his place in line, raise him in the pecking order etc., etc. There are better players.
“i think the US and its fanbase have regressed because the idea now seems to be literally everyone fits the profile and is like a mirror image of a similar starter. half a brain the usual idea with a bench is what you have been doing for 60-70′ isn’t working and you need a goal fast. you don’t do that swapping identicals. you do that changing what you’re trying to accomplish. but this is anathema to this staff and their US fans because we don’t do adjustments, we whirr away with a style for 90′ and changing it would be admitting we messed up, either with that style in general, or that some days it’s not on.
to me that’s the epitome of arrogance and stubbornness. a good coach is able to adjust. that includes trying other things and players with 30′ specific skill sets.
to me we need someone where if we are getting kicks but no service we can start getting better balls in.”
It seems one thing that emerged from Qatar is that Gregg left us, for now, with a reasonably substantive core. In English that means competition for spots is much tighter. In 2018 a guy like Mendez may have had a shot at something but in 2023 Mendez has more work to do going forward if he wants to be on the radar.
It’s not like post Couva where Gregg was handed a clean ( more or less) slate.
And we don’t even have the new manager yet.
And that person will be the one who will determine the characteristics of the players who will be “tactical substitutes “.
To me there are better guys in front of Mendez but if anyone wants to give him a shot, fine,
Maybe Mendez becomes the new Ariolla.
Maybe Mendez becomes Tessman.
The other semifinal is also intriguing. Did anyone else notice Panama going down to Brazil, playing a full Brazil squad and coming away with a 1-1 draw? And then follow that up with a trip to San Jose and pulling out a 1-0 against Costa Rica (when was the last time the US did that)? I don’t think CONCACAF should sleep on Panama.
i was touting costa rica and panama on the perez thread. there are some teams that have been actually punching over their weight. costa rica was like an 0-30 old fart team — bryan ruiz still plays? — and managed a standings tie with us we won on tiebreakers. panama gave us fits in the away game as well. i think the reason some people don’t give them credit is while they are improving technically, they do it more with speed and athleticism and in certain juggle king quarters this is anathema.
that being said, brazil lost to morocco and tied panama, my bet is that they used the first window to experiment. morocco is t-u-f-f but they should win both. there’s what, 1? 2? guys who started croatia in the quarter in the morocco game starting lineup. people mock my interest in experimentation but this is when that’s usually done.
No one noticed because that happened 4 years ago playing Brazil in Portugal. Panama played Argentina and lost respectfully 2-0. They just parked the bus and held out until Almada scored in the 78th. Outshot 25 to 2, 75% possession. CR is all Navas when he plays they win, when he doesn’t they don’t.
—————————
IV your bet was wrong (granted you were guessing off misinformation). The only experimental guy they were starting was Andrey Santos who recently signed with Chelsea and was loaned back to Vasco. There was only one other starter with less than 8 caps and he’s 27 and plays with Palmieras. It was also played in Morocco. Look at the rosters no one was testing new lineups. The US experimented more than most. Messi started in friendlies vs Curaçao and Panama. Ronaldo started vs power houses Luxembourg and Lichtenstein. England used almost their exact WC lineup. Italy experimented some with this Retegui whose 23 but only ever played in Argentina but he has 25g in his last 35 matches there. If you read my comments last week even your idea Bradley and Klinsmann experimented heavily after 2010 and 2015 is false.
hahaha…I’m not sure how I came across the score from four years ago last week – weird. That IS FUNNY. Well, that changes my perspective a little.
It was played March 23, so maybe your brain read it as March ‘23.
JR, I repeat myself, they used 1-2 starters from the semi this summer. period. that is tinkering for brazil. i watched the freaking south africa friendly with the kids under bradley don’t call me a liar. i said 2011. i said 2017-8. i never said klinsi experimented in 2015. that is the opposite of what i think happened.
my whole point re klinsi would be he got very conservative start of his second cycle and what then happened was a list of his regulars broke down, aged out, or underperformed, resulting in a 4th place GC finish, the losses to mexico, the loss to guatemala, 4th in CA. klinsi kept doubling down and eventually brooks sent him to the pasture after the opening 2 hex losses.
arena was unable to completely fix it, we miss russia.
i don’t see us falling apart that far. but IMO most teams that stand pat off of being merely decent don’t amount to much.
you like to throw around “false” like The Donald when we have a difference of opinion and you’re making IMO a loser argument that a round of 16 team is fine as it is and should just gel the usual suspects. did you just watch the same world cup i did? the striking was tepid. the MF were good on defense but sloppy in possession. the wingbacks were vulnerable. zimmermann had a bad tournament. they did ok. none of that sounds like a Continuity Team if we have a brain cell left. this current selection dynamic merely reflects you handed the team to the coach’s apprentice for caretaking.
the old coach’s selection was sufficiently goofy that well meaning tentative people already question a list, “9,” vazquez, pepi, back choices. without even getting into my theory we just pick an all star team not suited to the style we actually want to play. inasmuch as people already say he didn’t pick perfect — and some of the subtle nods by his own people eg bringing vazquez in and pepi back — your advocacy of his old slate is holier than the pope.
anyhow, expect significant personnel change when the regime changes.
2011 was a one off trial not the first matches after the World Cup. It was a mini window with Euro leagues and MLS playing the weekend before and the weekend after. It wasn’t a strategy it was a necessity especially playing in a hard to reach location of South Africa. The players that played were chosen for their availability not ability.
Did you guys see Pefok’s mom’s response to him not getting called for the WC? “… you scored one goal, if I was the national team coach I wouldn’t have called you either. A goal scorer has to score goals!” Jordan said he was like well I guess I better quite whining and get back to work. Perhaps USSF needs to sign her as “team mom”
Jaws wrote a nice article on Jordan P.
you’re underplaying the fixtures he was in. winner in the NL semi. a mexico pair, qualifier and nations league game. ES and canada quali. he wasn’t exactly sent out to play grenada in a stats padder.
and be real, the reason he’s not in is he’s being dinged not for NT production but supposed “club form.” thing being when sargent put up 5G in B.1 he was supposedly awesome but when pefok gets 4G 3A same league he’s trash. it’s absurd, logic-defying stats-obsessed nonsense. guy who knocked in 27! 27 ! goals the year before the transfer didn’t poof disappear.
the fairer discussion of this, as proposed the other day, would be which of these strikers fits the intended style of play. as opposed to just pick the streaky one and hope. either that or we’re about to get balogun in and make it a summer free for all, maybe even fall too, and come back in spring and assess who the best 2-3 were. we always try to pick winners before the ball even rolls. how about decide it on the field for a change.
if you want punchy based on what i just saw he’s at least better than dike.
and while i am thinking about it, pefok outplayed dike before. or is 21 already forgotten? other than balogun i feel like i am stuck in a washing machine going around and around to the same mistakes. pepi got a long run and went coooooooold. now he’s back in fashion. “club form.”
like i said above, either extend out the evaluation period beyond “one game wonder” — half year, or a year, see who keeps scoring over time and against who — or tailor something to select personnel. i’d take it better if it was, “pefok is more a back to goal guy, and that’s not what we want,” than this form nonsense because that seems to be like pick the stats year you want to use type shenanigans or myopia. the fact most of this team seems to run hot or cold depending when they transfer and to who should have rendered that whole exercise questionable at this point.
i’d respect it more if it was, “he fits the system” or “after going in circles this is consistently better” than this “oh, but his gronigen numbers” after “ouch, but his augsburg numbers” after “ooooh, but his dallas numbers.” that sounds like fanboy silliness. talent doesn’t change year to year.
I’m not underplaying nothing his mom said not me.
LOVE HER
now juxtapose her next to the Reynas…….
The April game pretty much will tell how strong each domestic league is.
Makes Aprils friendly even more meaningless,
i don’t understand their schedule makers. they did something similar in 19. i don’t see the value in playing mexico right before or after the summer tournaments as we likely see them during.
personally i’d have waited until we had a new coach in charge. that is a good coaching test.
i thought it was lazy (pushbutton) and impatient (you can’t wait til the fall to try this)? i also don’t like that at this point in the schedule this game encourages conservativeness instead of trying new players. no one wants to lose this one. and i don’t either, but it makes it likely the unit is familiar old shoes and that may even revive january players who didn’t even impress then, because “at least he’s already capped.” personally to me if you didn’t hack january try someone else. but that’s risky for mexico.
Money, money, money. Usa vs Mexico gets big crowds and big Spanish language tv audiences.