Weston McKennie’s long-term future with Italian Serie A side Juventus remains doubtful, but one of the English Premier League’s surprise stories of 2022-23 are reportedly interested in acquiring him this summer.
Brighton & Hove Albion is targeting McKennie for a summer transfer from Juventus, CalcioMercato reported Wednesday. McKennie’s loan spell with Leeds United is set to conclude this June, and with Juventus boss Massimiliano Allegri not planning to use him next season, the American midfielder has been targeted.
Brighton & Hove Albion midfielder Moises Caicedo is also reportedly being linked with several Premier League clubs, which could open the door for McKennie to become Caicedo’s replacement, according to the report.
McKennie, 24, made 21 combined appearances for Juventus before joining Leeds United on loan in January. However, McKennie did not have a long partnership with fellow American Jesse Marsch before Marsch’s firing during the second half of the Premier League season.
McKennie has made 18 appearances for Leeds United, mainly featuring in for the injured Tyler Adams. The Yorkshire club currently sits in the relegation zone, one point away from safety with two matches remaining on their schedule.
Brighton & Hove Albion is fighting for a top-six finish, which would clinch a first-ever trip to a European competition.
The problem here is that Caicedo is super talented as both a destroyer and a ball progressor — think Tyler Adams plus McKennie at his best. Would be big shoes for Wes to fill.
From what I’ve seen Weston deserves the criticism.
So does Bamford but he’s earned a little bit of the benefit of the doubt because he’s done a lot of good things for them in the past. Now, after a bunch of injuries he’s probably finished as a professional after these next two games.
Weston is fresh off the boat, cost a lot of money and hasn’t built up a reserve of good will.
Feel free to cast snowflake Weston as a poor victim but at this point, if he scores the winning goal in the next two games and helps them stay up, they will write songs about him.
And if Bamford misses another penalty and that sends them down, they will burn him at the stake which should warm your heart.
Leeds is a team that has never played defense. They have been getting scored on left and right long before any American was there. The closest it came to working in the EPL was when Adams and McKennie played a double pivot, giving them some semblance of transition defense. After Tyler was injured, it’s been a downward spiral. Weston can’t cover the entire middle by himself, even though he has tried. The team is entertaining, but need 4 or 5 more EPL level defenders and midfielders to survive EPL relegation comfortably, and probably need a couple for the Championship. Leeds is going down, and Wes and Tyler need to make moves. I actually think Aaronson staying on in the Championship might work out for him in the long run.
And btw Bamford is dreadful. Wouldn’t be a starter in MLS. Never have looked at a Leeds blog, but if any of their fans think he has done more than Wes this year for Leeds, they are what bizzy said.
With all the abuse and insults McKennie has received by Leeds fans in Podcasts and forums I glad he’s possibly going to Brighton…that would be amazing for his career. It’s hard to see the Leeds supporters STILL stand behind a rotten Patrick Bamford but chastise McKennie in the midfield in a system he was thrown in and really not accustomed to. I really wish Brighton picks him up 🙏.
Let’s goooooo!!!!!
“It’s hard to see the Leeds supporters STILL stand behind a rotten Patrick Bamford but chastise McKennie”
???
I haven’t seen one Leeds supporter who “stands behind” Bamford. They all want him to come good because they don’t have another recognized #9/target man but at the same time they all say he sucks and is getting them relegated single-handedly.
He’s playing because the managers feel they don’t have anyone better.
then you are not on any Leeds forums or listen to the podcasts…..they don’t talk about how much he stinks and that he is the reason that they lose games……but they are always soooooo quick on Mckennie’s case about his poor form and defending
From what I’ve seen Weston deserves the criticism.
So does Bamford but he’s earned a little bit of the benefit of the doubt because he’s done a lot of good things for them in the past. Now, after a bunch of injuries he’s probably finished as a professional after these next two games.
Weston is fresh off the boat, cost a lot of money and hasn’t built up a reserve of good will.
Feel free to cast snowflake Weston as a poor victim but at this point, if he scores the winning goal in the next two games and helps them stay up, they will write songs about him.
And if Bamford misses another penalty and that sends them down, they will burn him at the stake which should warm your heart.
“Feel free to cast snowflake Weston as a poor victim “.
I am not. Leeds fired a coach that brought him in and knew how to use McKennie and brought in a clueless coach who was absolutely catastrophic and atrocious in terms of game planning, formation selection and tactic execution; and yet they want to blame McKinney for being thrown into a half a$$ed system with a half a$$ed coach? Absolutely not…..
“And if Bamford misses another penalty and that sends them down, they will burn him at the stake which should warm your heart.”
ABSOLUTELY!!!! I AM WAITING FOR THAT MOMENT…..
Mr. bizzy
“Feel free to cast snowflake Weston as a poor victim “.
I am not.”
Of course you are.
Weston is not doing well or more accurately he’s not playing up to the expectations attached to his big money transfer fee and his big reputation as a Juve player.
Unrealistic expectations? Tough shit. That’s what they pay Weston the big bucks for.
Leeds are not using him correctly. His teamates suck. However, Weston is no newbie. He got shuttled all over the place when he was on a bad team at Schalke and still played better than this.
He should be setting an example for this pile of deadwood. .
If Weston needs Jesse around to hold his little hand and guide him then you better hope that they hire Jesse for the USMNT.
These last two games are going to be really big for Weston. He has the ability to galvanize this Championship team and help keep them up. It would be really good for him if he could show that, regardless of how it ultimately turns out.
A disappointment at Juve and now a disappointment at Leeds, I really
don’t want to see Weston back in MLS.
Mr. bizzy
“Feel free to cast snowflake Weston as a poor victim “.
I am not.”
Of course you are.
Weston is not doing well or more accurately he’s not playing up to the expectations attached to his big money transfer fee and his big reputation as a Juve player.
Unrealistic expectations? Tough shit. That’s what they pay Weston the big bucks for.
Leeds are not using him correctly. His teamates suck. However, Weston is no newbie. He got shuttled all over the place when he was on a bad team at Schalke and still played better than this.
He should be setting an example for this pile of deadwood. .
If Weston needs Jesse around to hold his little hand and guide him then you better hope that they hire Jesse for the USMNT.
These last two games are going to be really big for Weston. He has the ability to galvanize this Championship team and help keep them up. It would be really good for him if he could show that, regardless of how it ultimately turns out.
A disappointment at Juve and now a disappointment at Leeds, I really
don’t want to see Weston back in MLS.
By the way, if Sam sends Bamford up for another crucial penalty, he should be fired on the spot.
Mr. Vacqui,
“Weston is not doing well or more accurately he’s not playing up to the expectations attached to his big money transfer fee”
Just because there was a big transfer fee doesn’t mean Mckennie should be expected to turn water into wine for leeds. Weston was brought in to play a particular role for Marsch in tandem with Adams, was miss used miserably by Javi, who was fired and is now finding his footing with Sam Allardyce. Not even a De Bruyne or Alvarez could strive at Leeds being played out of position
“Unrealistic expectations? Tough shit.”
Absolutely not. you can’t just throw a player anywhere and just hope things will stick for the team. Under Javi Leeds went from a tenacious team running everything down to team that REALLY SUCKED and was conceding goals like no other ……so if the team sucked as a whole why is everyone singling out Mckennie in the midfield??? Because he is American (yes I said it…lol)???
“Disappointment at Juve and now a disappointment at Leeds”
1. He was not a disappointment at Juventus…..as he was playing for JUVENTUS
2. He was not a disappointment at Leeds regardless of what you or the Leeds fans think as Brighton (who sit 6th in the league) are interested in him.
I hope this kid proves you all wrong by going to a team that really knows how to use him….
Mr. bizzy,
“Weston is not doing well or more accurately he’s not playing up to the expectations attached to his big money transfer fee”
“Just because there was a big transfer fee doesn’t mean Mckennie should be expected to turn water into wine for leeds. Weston was brought in to play a particular role for Marsch in tandem with Adams, was miss used miserably by Javi, who was fired and is now finding his footing with Sam Allardyce. Not even a De Bruyne or Alvarez could strive at Leeds being played out of position “‘
You’re making a lot of excuses for Weston. I’ve said that Weston is being used improperly and that he is surrounded by deadwood.
Nevertheless that’s no excuse for his disappointing play overall. He’s better than what he has shown.
If you’re trying to say that no amount of money ever guarantees performance well of course that is true. We have all bought expensive stuff that turns out to be crap and a waste of money. The other possibility is that Leeds overpaid for Weston.
If Weston had come cheaply then complaints about his sub par performance get muted.
But given the money, expecting Leeds fans to NOT be disappointed is just ridiculous.
“Unrealistic expectations? Tough shit.”
Absolutely not. you can’t just throw a player anywhere and just hope things will stick for the team. Under Javi Leeds went from a tenacious team running everything down to team that REALLY SUCKED and was conceding goals like no other ……
so if the team sucked as a whole why is everyone singling out Mckennie in the midfield??? Because he is American (yes I said it…lol)???’”
Ah yes, my favorite. The anti American excuse. If Leeds fans are so anti American why do they love Tyler so much? And why aren’t they bitching about Brenden on a regular basis? With Brenden it’s clear he’s trying but there’s just nothing there… for now. He needs to grow into his body more and that’s just so obvious.
With Weston, it’s all there but it doesn’t always come out for whatever reason.
“Disappointment at Juve and now a disappointment at Leeds”
1. He was not a disappointment at Juventus…..as he was playing for JUVENTUS
2. He was not a disappointment at Leeds regardless of what you or the Leeds fans think as Brighton (who sit 6th in the league) are interested in him.”
You’ve got your Lalas rose colored glasses on.
Juve has been trying to get rid of him for a while now.
Have you heard of Mo Salah and Kevin De Bruyne? They were disappointments at Chelsea. So was Arjen Robben and Lukaku.
Disappointing players at one club might fit in very well at another club. Brighton has an eye for that kind of thing.
Should he be a success at Brighton ( assuming the rumours are true) that does not mean he was a success at Leeds.
Having a successful second marriage after a divorce does not mean that you did not fail in your first one.
“I hope this kid proves you all wrong by going to a team that really knows how to use him….”
We’re not wrong. Weston has been a disappointment at Leeds. It doesn’t mean he’s not a good player. It’s just too bad for Leeds that he can’t seem to show it for them.
That actually would be a great landing spot for him.
This summer is a crucial time for many American players in Europe.
What summer isn’t a crucial time for most American players in Europe. Loans expire; need to be in a team where you can play for upcoming international events; need to find a good landing spot after not playing: need to be in a more competitive league; and my favorite – gots to be paid. Every summer is important
you have it backwards. find someplace that wants you. at that point, at his level, the pay is probably more than adequate. lots of US players seem to prioritize name brand elite teams and money and then seem upset they aren’t as much in the plans as they hoped. well, was “fit” or “role” a priority or did you emphasize “getting paid.” i am sure the money is nice but you have finite career and a NT that recently cares if you actually play. ask steffen.
i mean when i was making my college choice all the finalist coaches got questions like “what do you see my role as” and “do you think i could start early on.” the sheer amount of americans on loan or sitting benches suggests too much emphasis on short-term agent-driven concerns like prestige and money. if you play well in a good league, even for a small team, you will move your way up.
i am not sure if a 6th place team is a firm foothold for weston but he did play for juve who used to roll through serie a at the very top. personally a little lost why more americans aren’t headed places like fulham that make institutions of their american signings, and which have served as launching pads for players like dempsey to try a stint at a spurs-type team as the cherry on top at the end. personally i think a lot of US players are impatient and want it now instead of later when they are more ready. not sure why the haaland model seems so foreign to us. build smart and hit the elite when really ready.
Mr. Voice,
That’s pretty condescending.
“why more americans aren’t headed places like fulham that make institutions of their american signings,”
Those teams have to want to sign you and there are a limited number of them.
“and which have served as launching pads for players like dempsey to try a stint at a spurs-type team as the cherry on top at the end.”
Clint’s career is not a model for most USMNT players, especially these days.
Clint got to Fulham when he was 23-24. He spent his entire Fulham career learning and improving and once he got as good as he though he could there, he tried his best to get out of his contract and transfer to a Champion’s League team. He caused a lot of hard feelings at Fulham when he tried to leave early. His problem was when he had his monster year, 2012, and had become a valued commodity, he was already 27-28 .
Champions League teams were not going to invest the big money in a guy like Clint who they thought would have had only a few prime years left and would not have had much sell on value once he was past his prime.
That was the excuse anyway.
Clint got to Spurs and had a decent year but Vilas Boas then got canned and Seattle offered 29 year old Clint the kind of money and security that no Euro team was going offer. I believe he had just started a family so he made a Mikey Bradley decision there.
“personally i think a lot of US players are impatient and want it now instead of later when they are more ready.”
Easy for you to say. It’s easy to spend other people’s money isn’t it?
The entire Euro model in the last 10 years or maybe more has shifted towards really young players. So American kids are just trying to keep up with the market.
“ not sure why the haaland model seems so foreign to us. build smart and hit the elite when really ready.”
Because it’s bullshit.
Haaland is a unicorn. He was All World very very young. He’s very well “represented”. For the most part he can dictate where he wants to go and how long he will stay and how much money they will pay him.
Guys like Balogun, Pepi, CCV, Weston, etc. can only dream about having that kind of juice. They are an entire dimension away from having that kind of power. Compared to Haaland or maybe Mbappe , most other players have a more limited palette of options and only so much power. Otherwise, they would probably do what you suggest. Like I said, it’s easy for you to say. This isn’t like trying to pick a college.
“americans right now are very much in the fanboy, all-star mentality where you just stick 11 star players out there. winning teams usually meld personnel to scheme. it’s not just you’re good in some abstract sense. it’s you fill a spot well in a scheme.”
You’re overthinking this. Most of the Americans that SBI follows are on the younger, less experienced side.
You have your keepers or your Tyler or Pulisic but most are not fully developed as players.
Most Americans aren’t Lewandoski looking for a club as a certified #9 or a Rudiger, a veteran, certified CB.
Most Americans who SBI follows are not elite talent.
So their buyers are looking at “raw material” who sometimes winds up playing them in a different role than maybe they envisioned.
You look down your nose and spit on these kids when they are just trying to make the best deal they can.
Most USMNT players would actually make as much or more in MLS as DPs. Wes 4.5 mil, Tyler 3.8, Brenden 2.5, Weah 580,000, Reyna 2.7 mil, Dest 4 mil, Pulisic 10 million. If teams are paying 8 mill for Shaqiri and 7.5 for Insigne and Chicharito all guys in their 30s those US players would get at least their same salaries in MLS. Ferreira makes 1.8 and Zimmerman 2.1, M Rob 1.4. I’d give you Chris Richards might have trouble getting 3.3 million as a CB in MLS. I think Josh Sargent would come pretty close to his reported 3 million for his home town St. Louis. These guys aren’t staying in Europe for the money.
Obviously the Haaland strategy is the reason for his success. Of course the Messi strategy of sign for the world’s biggest club at 13 and spend the next 21 years there also seemed to work really well. Hmmm maybe we shouldn’t use two of the elite of the elite of the game to model our development strategies from.
JR
“Most USMNT players would actually make as much or more in MLS as DPs. ”
If that’s what makes them happy go for it. I have zero problem with that.
I had zero problem with Landon being an MLS lifer. It was pretty obvious early on that he would probably never be happy on a club outside of California.. And an unhappy Landon was a shit player for the USMNT. So keep him happy and let him play forever as an all time great for the USMNT.
What’s not to like? As long as you play well and win things for the USMNT then I don’t care if you play for the Pittsburgh River Hounds or San Diego Loyal SC
.
My problem with Aaron Long and Paul Ariolla is not where they play, it’s that they suck and that the USMNT has better alternatives.
.
Landon did not suck and we never had a real alternative to him.
the point you’re missing is unless you’re making dollar bills rain at certain kinds of establishments, a salary over a million, well-saved, probably sets you for life. after that it’s a different kind of keeping score. when i am 40 do i want $30m in the bank of $15m. do you really think that matters that much? your house and cars should be paid for. so maybe factor in am i like BMOC at fulham for life or am i a sub for a UCL team forgotten the day i leave. the US pattern of late is take the money and sit the bench. have you ever played vs. sat the bench? how many memories do you have from sitting a bench? if you’re not playing, or worse on loan, who cares? to me part of the point to going pro is actually playing your sport and not just cashing checks. no one is going to remember you cashing checks. and given how much they make the specifics only matter if you have a gambling problem or some other unnatural financial drain. otherwise, rich is rich. and when you retire age 40 you either have memories of playing well or not.
sorry but i would take being mcbride or dempsey at fulham 7 days a week, 365 days a year. you will accomplish things just the same. you will be remembered when it’s done. and you will still have a significant money pile, enough where the precise amount is your accountants’ concern.
JR: first off, barca got in trouble for finesssing the FIFA youth signing rules on messi. he was a foreign kid signing there in a foreign country under 18. second off, barca had him in their academy to train up, like a weah or dest. there is a constant conflation of “academy kids” with people who sign someplace age 21+. the former they invest in your learning, pace your development, and forgive your growing pains. you get the actual benefit of their academy. the latter they are signing an adult first team player to play and produce. you never see their academy even if you are barely older than the kids being signed from there. they don’t fix your issues much. you can either play what they expected or not. they might sandpaper an edge but enough issues and you get sold or loaned, not coached up like someone age 16 in their academy.
weston would be being signed to play for a top 6 team as an adult. he’s not going to be coddled or taught at length. he is either ready or not. comparing that to barca investing in messi for years before he’s unleashed isn’t accurate. it’s like reyna vs pepi. dortmund put years into reyna. they have dawdled on moving on. augsburg either gets the pepi it wanted or bye.
Totally agree. Brighton is an incredibly well-managed club that is punching a mile above its weight class at the moment. Definitely seems a good fit for him, especially since Brighton is not so deep they can occasionally bury McKennie on the bench as AC Milan did at times. McKennie really has seemed like this generation’s version of Clint Dempsey: the first thing every new manager seemingly does with him is put him on the bench as a first order of business, then reluctantly turn to him when shorthanded…and then come to the belated realization that they cannot in fact make do without him.
And yup. Pulisic, Weah, Dest, and Balogun – how cool is it to say that name – all need moves. If Leeds goes down, Tyler Adams will need (and will get) one. I’d also definitely like to see if we can get Zendejas some looks in Europe; I am personally utterly, completely, 100% certain he’s got the ability to play in a Top-5 league. Malik Tillman and Taylor Booth could use upgrades. I still personally haven’t written off Haji Wright; the guy is at least high-end-of-the-Championship level and with his physique and physicality the dude absolutely belongs in England or Germany. And Gio Reyna needs to decide if he’s going to remain a change-up pitcher for Dortmund or if he’s going to find a team willing to feature him as a 10 and build around him. (I personally selfishly hope for the latter…the dude has some genuine magic in his feet, and let’s face it, he’s never going to be a winger or two-way midfielder on any team that wants those players to either press or defend. So let’s see what he does as a centerpiece and see him develop that way.)
So…yeah. Huge summer for us for sure. And the pool’s getting sufficiently deep these players maybe need to think really hard and realistically about their next move too, and whether or not it’s going to be a fit for them, because except for maybe Pulisic there isn’t a guy in the USMNT pool that’s a lock starter anymore.
weston has a poacher’s skill set — usually a forward’s tool kit — but plays MF is the issue. he is multitalented but doesn’t fit a particular slot. americans right now are very much in the fanboy, all-star mentality where you just stick 11 star players out there. winning teams usually meld personnel to scheme. it’s not just you’re good in some abstract sense. it’s you fill a spot well in a scheme. a lot of our best players are being moved around all over the place. weah playing back. aaronson, christian, and reyna playing F or MF, center or wide. etc. etc. it’s both praise for the sort of athletic and somewhat technical player we’re creating, and yet some awkwardness with what to do with it all since they aren’t trained up in a normal sense to play a specific role in stereotype fashion.
Mr Voice.
“weston has a poacher’s skill set — usually a forward’s tool kit — but plays MF is the issue.”
?? Define “Poacher’s skill set”.
Poacher is one of those lazy catch all phrases that people use like “world class”. To me a poacher someone who hunts or catches game or fish illegally..
Weston is great in the air and a threat on set pieces but Poacher skill set?
If he had it at a useable level, teams would be playing him up front.
Gregg would have sniffed it out and stuck him up front. You don’t think the USMNT could have used a “poacher” in Qatar? Schalke used him up front two times, resulting in 0 goals.
He’s got 5 goal with Juve but that’s mostly from midfield.
Weston is big and physical and when he’s on, he’s dynamic. In English that means he throws himself around a lot. He is very important to the USMNT because when he’s on, he wins his fair share of the ball and sets everyone’s hair on fire. In cliché terms he is a box to box midfielder type. At his best with Juve I think they saw him as a very poor man’s Arturo Vidal.
His problem at Leeds is they’re asking him to do too much. Of course, that’s because he’s surrounded by a lot of deadwood. I don’t want Leeds to get relegated but they really aren’t good enough to stay up without a lot of trouble. The 49’ers ought to spend their money elsewhere, like Wrexham for example.
V: poacher’s skill set is a guy with a nose for the right spots in the box, who has the aerial ability to win headers on net, or to crash the 6 for loose balls. it’s more of a forward’s skill like mcbride. it works better on weaker teams who let balls roll through the box or crosses find their targets. you play a good team and poaching value goes down. you get fewer looks and they will punish a MF who can’t consistently pass to who he means to, or who is sneaking higher up than he should be — as he’s a MF and not a F who belongs up there all the time.
you’re giving me stick for you think he’s useful in a world cup but how many goals did he get there? exactly. ultimately it was puli giving up his midsection and haji wright, a 9, scoring a 9 goal. depending on crosses and poaching isn’t high percentage. it’s useful but not routinely so. a lot of soccer success is something you can use every game. you can’t use “scores 4 on cuba by half” against england or holland. they will make you work for it. you then need the fuller toolbox of technical goods including the ability to keep possession.
i still think he’s useful i just see him long term as either retasked as a back or striker, or off the bench as a swiss army guy. he is just not a stereotypical 10 who can keep the ball moving to the right people. he’s a poacher and to me poacher is more useful off the bench in a 0-0 game in the 80th minute. for the other 80 minutes i need someone playing smart, technical balls to feet, or scoring outside the box, or doing mid things. he’s more like a 4th forward.
IV,
Weston doesn’t score a lot of goals.
In soccer players who are called poachers, like Inzaghi, score a lot of goals.
So if Weston has that skill set, he should send it back for a refund because it is missing the coding that allows Weston to actually score goals.
Your definition of Poacher’s skill set is you just making stuff up.
On the bright side it gives me a chance to paste in some quotes about one of my favorite “poachers”, Inzaghi.
From Milan’s website:
“He also reminds us all of a simpler time; a time where a striker was not required to possess every ability, but rather was judged purely on their ability to put the ball in the back of the next. Inzaghi is sometimes labelled a ‘goal hanger’, and that’s probably exactly what he was, but in some ways that added to the charm of one of Italy’s best poachers. Famously, the current Venezia manager was labelled as “a diving cheat” by Jaap Stam and a man who was “born offside” according to Sir Alex Ferguson.
Johan Cruyff also once famously remarked: “Look, the thing about Inzaghi is he can’t actually play football at all. He’s just always in the right position.”
And that pretty much is just about the best definition of a “poacher’s” skill set that I’ve ever seen..
V: you honestly don’t think these guys are asking what their role will be? Turner and Steffen fully new they were going to be backups and that Ramsdale and Ederson had no plans to leave. Pulisic and Reyna both had early chances to start. Wes played almost every time he was healthy at Juve. Adams played significant amounts at RBL. Aaronson was a regular starter at Leeds. The were given the opportunities they were promised. They just often weren’t good enough or the manager wasn’t and the new guy disagreed with the evaluation or in the case of Reyna, Pulisic, Weah, and Adams spent huge amounts of time injured. I guess you could go with Pepi being naive but just because Augsburg didn’t give him much time after spending big on him is as much them as Ricardo. Augsburg doesn’t typically spend that much so they obviously felt he could help right away.
———————————
Do you know what made “the Haaland Method” so effective? Being a flippin cyborg named Erling Haaland. Brenden Aaronson went Union to Salzburg to Leeds not significantly different from Molde to Salzburg to Dortmund. Brendan isn’t struggling because he shot too high, he shot too low. Molde-Salzburg-Dortmund-Man City are all consistent top 3 clubs in their leagues every year. Haaland always has more talent with him then against him. Brenden had that to until he got to Leeds, where he was asked to be the ten and unlock EPL defenses for a bunch of journeyman and untested youth. If he’d gotten a move a CL club he’d have other players at or above his level and he’d have more goals and assists.
JR,
“you honestly don’t think these guys are asking what their role will be?”
I’m sure they do.
But so what? The club can lie to you and make up some excuse later.
Or as you point out, things can change significantly from when you go on your one NCAA approved recruitment visit and when you sign. Managers can change genders and get fired or run off with the trainer’s spouse. Important players can get injured.
My favorite example is the manager, Houllier, who brought Mike Bradley to Aston villa on loan had a heart attack that he barely survived just after Bradley signed. Did that affect Bradley’s loan time? Fuck yeah.
Clubs make signing mistakes all the time. Players overestimate their worth and ability all the time. It happens.
The omniscient Mr. Voice has the rather huge advantage of hindsight and not having (CLICHE WARNING) any skin in the game when he criticizes these players and their “representation” because they aren’t as smart as he is.
Often this is not a clinical scientific process. People make mistakes all the time with the Non- Haaland method.
As for the so -called Haaland method or model, if Gio’s Uber driver Erling, wins the Champions League with Pep, he can then push a move to Real Madrid next season, win the Champions league there and then move to Bayern Munich the season after that and complete the hat trick.
That would be cool.
After that he can move to the club he loved as a kid , Leeds and help get them promoted from League One or the Championship.
Why?
Because he can. I don’t think Taylor Booth, Caden Clark or Cade Cowell can replicate that.
Sorry Vacqui that was supposed to be directed to IV, typo. Somehow I think if he had an offer from Man United at age 22 he wouldn’t have turned it down to play for Charlton Athletic no matter what he says.
JR,
If Ole were still there maybe Erling likes Man U. On the other hand Roy Keane and Erling’s dad had some history and I wonder if that bothers the kid.
He was born in Leeds, when his dad played there and I always thought he wanted to play there at some point.
re haaland, there is an article online where they explain their strategy at length. he was going to be brought along slowly, and make small steps. he was going to be set up for success. he was not going to jump from molde to manU. that is the whole point. so they set him up where he dominated a series of leagues in sequence. he then shows up to man city and it’s easy. low failure chance. and while he could have cashed in first transfer he and anyone like him is making insane amounts of money to the point where the precise amount doesn’t really affect their lives. it’s agent scorekeeping. so they emphasized the soccer.
give me a break on “hindsight.” i routinely say it UPFRONT. it then proves true. it proves true for a whole list of players who end up on benches or loans. a lengthy list. i am not guessing. you can see where x player isn’t going to start at ACM or roma or city and they do it anyway. and at a sheer piling up of examples it’s kind of like, do any of you learn from the last guy? so it’s not hindsight. it’s a choice that only works for perhaps pulisic, and then only for a period of time. everyone else ends up on a bench or keeping for luton. so maybe sign smarter up front. and having seen the last guy do it telling the next one to do different is foresight.
to be fair, i think signing these places is smart at age 18 when they might be run through an academy or age group ball. earlier if they have the right passport. but age 23 they want a star and they want him now. we constantly overshoot that.
it’s amusing to hear people proud of ream and jedi and how fulham helps them with the NT then routinely forget that when the others make more ambitious decisions. if jedi doesn’t have the health issue. if jedi’s ACM transfer goes through. does it work out the same. or does he end up like reynolds. hmmmm. that’s what i am saying.
i thought richards was one of the best U20s of his cohort. it took him forever to get promoted up by GB because bayern brought him along so slow. behind lesser backs. people are just now figuring out he could play. it was obvious U20. him and weah. these very ambitious career choices can actually have a delaying effect with mediocre head coaches who read box scores instead of watch players play.
to be fair, i think JK would have seen the quality and rewarded those type players faster. but we didn’t have that type coach and it’s a harder sell to use players sitting or on loan.
IV,
“re haaland, there is an article online where they explain their strategy at length. he was going to be brought along slowly, and make small steps. he was going to be set up for success. he was not going to jump from molde to manU. that is the whole point. so they set him up where he dominated a series of leagues in sequence. he then shows up to man city and it’s easy. low failure chance. and while he could have cashed in first transfer he and anyone like him is making insane amounts of money to the point where the precise amount doesn’t really affect their lives. it’s agent scorekeeping. so they emphasized the soccer.”
So you’re saying all Pepi and his representation had to do was go online read that article and in due time he’ll be worth a 200 million dollar transfer? Boy will they be upset when they find out.
“give me a break on “hindsight.” i routinely say it UPFRONT. it then proves true. it proves true for a whole list of players who end up on benches or loans. a lengthy list. i am not guessing. you can see where x player isn’t going to start at ACM or roma or city and they do it anyway. and at a sheer piling up of examples it’s kind of like, do any of you learn from the last guy? so it’s not hindsight. it’s a choice that only works for perhaps pulisic, and then only for a period of time. everyone else ends up on a bench or keeping for luton. so maybe sign smarter up front. and having seen the last guy do it telling the next one to do different is foresight.”
Every blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. It’s hindsight. If not you should feel bad because should be managing the lives of these players and telling them what to do. Unfortunately for them they aren’t you. It’s real easy sitting where you are judging these kids and their people when you have no idea what they have to deal with when they were going through this process.
“to be fair, i think signing these places is smart at age 18 when they might be run through an academy or age group ball. earlier if they have the right passport. but age 23 they want a star and they want him now. we constantly overshoot that.”
‘We” don’t do anything. The current environment is that clubs are under pressure to find regulars younger and younger. And it’s supposed to be a bit easier to know what you’ll be getting with a 23 year old than with an 18 year old. With an 18 year old as opposed to a 23 year old there are always those who think “with the younger kid we have more of a chance to develop him into what we want”.
And, of course , that’s not always true.
Now that’s the club side.
On the player side they have to balance getting as much as you can, as soon as you can, as opposed to maybe waiting for a better situation. Or taking less for maybe a better “development” team.
You have this delusional idea that tomorrow is promised to us all and we can spend an endless amount of time working on our careers as they develop over the years.
What you never acknowledge is that young professional athletes are perishable items. Their career can literally be over in an instant for any number of sometimes trivial and stupid reasons. Obviously, you can’t live your whole life in fear that way but don’t think for a moment it doesn’t hang over all these people.
From the comfort of your couch things can look a lot different than what the player and his reps are seeing when they meet these people.
“it’s amusing to hear people proud of ream and jedi and how fulham helps them with the NT then routinely forget that when the others make more ambitious decisions. if jedi doesn’t have the health issue. if jedi’s ACM transfer goes through. does it work out the same. or does he end up like reynolds. hmmmm. that’s what i am saying.”
Why is that amusing?
That situation had a lot of hypotheticals that in the end, worked out for Jedi. Your point? Whatever it is, I have news for you . You seem to think Jedi’s experience is a guaranteed repeatable phenomenon.
It’s not.
Put someone else in the exact same situation ( which is, of course, impossible) and a completely different outcome could be the result.
Sometimes ambitious decisions blow up in your face.
And sometimes they work out wonderfully.
You have the arrogance to believe that you are in the best position to judge these decisions, after the fact. Hindsight helps that out a lot.
“i thought richards was one of the best U20s of his cohort. it took him forever to get promoted up by GB because bayern brought him along so slow.”
And why were they so slow about it? Bayern doesn’t develop players for the USMNT. They have very much their own agenda.
“behind lesser backs.”
So you say. Obviously Bayern did not think that.
“ people are just now figuring out he could play. it was obvious U20. him and weah. these very ambitious career choices can actually have a delaying effect with mediocre head coaches who read box scores instead of watch players play.”
He can play now. Maybe he couldn’t play as well back “then”. Maybe Gregg wanted to call him up and at the time Richards needed to stay where he was because he needed to work on things. You don’t know. I doubt the coaches at Bayern, PSG and Lille were reading box scores instead of watching players play. And as I recall Richards spent a lot of time hurt. It’s why he missed the World Cup. The only thing he’s an example of is that bad timing with your injuries can be a bad thing.
“to be fair, i think JK would have seen the quality and rewarded those type players faster. but we didn’t have that type coach and it’s a harder sell to use players sitting or on loan.”
USMNT managers have only recently have had the luxury of being able to have some kind of rule about not playing players who were mainly on the bench for their clubs.
And the USMNT have never had a prohibition against playing players who were on loan. Dest was on loan at Milan when he put in his best games ever for the USMNT at Qatar. Perhaps you are projecting your fever dream fantasy, wishing it were true.
The USMNT is a national team.
Many national teams play players who maybe don’t get a lot of time with their club’s first teams. Yet sometimes those players do really well.
Just because you are not the first choice at your club, it does not mean you suck.
Clubs sometimes have players better than you at your spot because clubs have to think about the long season. You know that guy who plays behind Haaland? He’s a World Cup winner. Being on the bench does not mean a player cannot light up the place with his national team for a short run off games.
7 games is the most you will play in a World Cup if you get to the final. Clubs play and train a ton more. Por ejemplo, this is what Liverpool did in season 2021-22:
• League Cup – 6
• FA Cup – 6
• Champions League – 13
• Premier League – 38
• Total Games: 63
So if you have a player who is on the bench with his club but more or less fit and healthy ( and that is very much on a case by case basis), he might not be game sharp but he could certainly be motivated enough to raise his game enough for a couple of games to prove people wrong.
If a manager thought enough of such a player, I never had a problem with them playing him. Especially if you are talking CONCACAF where the USMNT plays so many weaklings they can afford to play guys who aren’t 100% game fit.
V: are you really suggesting there is no “middle” between FCD and the german first division? half my point is if the teams willing to play our guys seem to be more like leeds, fulham, gronigen, etc., maybe sign there to start with. our pattern seems to be to sign at city then find out your level is the championship or low EPL instead, but on loan, and maybe they can afford the option or not. so why not sign norwich or gronigen in the first place?
you can mock me all you like but haaland made pit stops at places like RB salzburg that are more equivalent to what i am suggesting. i don’t buy he leads the EPL in goals coming straight from molde to EPL. i think he is what he is because he put down numbers in a series of higher rungs until it’s not a big jump at the end.
where is the list of americans who make these massive leaps and it works? it’s cute to mock me for listing all the obvious. where’s the beef in your argument? the data speaks for itself.
Mr. Voice,
“you can mock me all you like but haaland made pit stops at places like RB salzburg that are more equivalent to what i am suggesting. i don’t buy he leads the EPL in goals coming straight from molde to EPL. i think he is what he is because he put down numbers in a series of higher rungs until it’s not a big jump at the end.”
Well, we’ll never know will we?
This isn’t about you.
You are trying to make it like there’s a crisis and you are the super genius warning us about it. Have yo u thought about running for office? Because that is a very politician kind of thing to do.
Pick on something that really isn’t a problem and get everyone all het up about it so that you can save them from it.
There’s no crisis,
Euro clubs in general have, over the years, realized that we are a good source of players. Some teams , Red Bull, Man City, Bayern, etc. have more of a presence here than others. Which may be why more of our kids initially wind up with them. I’m sure they are others on SBI who can tell us a lot more about it than I can.
Most American kids that I’m familiar with just try and make the best deal they can whether it’s with a super club like Bayern or a more modest one. And that’s been true for a long time.
My only argument is that you have a convenient relationship with facts.
We live in a world now where lying is regularly and openly rewarded. It’s tiresome. So if your posts are going criticize others on a site like this you leave yourself open to having your posts dissected.
You like to vomit out large reams and reams of copy. This discourages any close analysis of what you actually write.
But saying Gregg “forgot about Richie”? That’s pretty clear example that can be dissected.
Richie’s injury was very badly timed for him. Richie was a rookie just beginning to break into the first team. He was not established yet so his badly timed injury robbed him of the chance to build up a resume with PSV so that he could be called up in time to make a case for Qatar.
None of us know what Gregg was thinking in terms of Richie when selection time came around but regardless of who the manager was there was no reason either in terms of form or in terms of USMNT track record, to consider Richie for Qatar.
Using him as an example of a player that Gregg “forgot” tells us all that you don’t pay any attention to reality.
“where is the list of americans who make these massive leaps and it works? it’s cute to mock me for listing all the obvious. where’s the beef in your argument? the data speaks for itself.”
Oh please. Forget about Americans, lots of players from all over the world sign with the “big clubs” and get discarded. It’s called survival of the fittest. This is a brutal, exploitative process. It’s not for the faint of heart. If you have enough talent and enough character, hopefully you’ll be able to get to a good level for you.
Haaland did follow the path you mentioned. Big Fuckin Deal. That proves nothing.
LeBron and Kobi never went to college. Do you think every hot shot kid should bypass college and go straight to the NBA? Do you think they do?
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Should every college QB try to figure out a way to be a 6th round pick?
What you suggest, your Haaland model? It is called superstition.
You’re trying to say that American kids don’t try to approach Europe in a reasoned step by step fashion the way you would but that’s just bullshit .
Every player and their situation, should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Stu Holden went from the Dynamo straight to Bolton and became a legit star in the EPL. If not for injury the 2010 World Cup might have gone very differently. He’s one reason I have never bought into the idea that just because you play in MLS and you’re not named Landon, you suck.
Geoff Cameron went straight to Stoke at a time when they were in the EPL and quickly became a fixture.
Jon Spector played 101 games in the EPL for Man. U, Charlton and mostly, West Ham.
He then went on to play a further 153 games for Birmingham City in the Championship.
Caden Clark wound up with RB Leipzig probably because he had a prior relationship to a coach at his academy team in Arizona who had ties to Leipzig.
Richards wound up with Bayern instead of one of your IV approved list of middle ground clubs because Bayern had a “relationship” with FC Dallas. Bayern also have a deserved reputation of signing and producing talent that even if they don’t make it with the big club go on to careers with other , “lesser” clubs.
When a guy like Steffen or Miazga signs with a Man City or a Chelsea, most sane people don’t necessarily expect them to break into the first team but do expect them to use those teams as stepping stones. You see that now with Steffen, who should have a number of options.
After all, Brad Friedel played for Brondby, Galatasaray, the Crew, Liverpool and then finally got a starters gig with Blackburn Rovers.
Miazga, was never good enough for Chelsea but had a pretty good career in Europe regardless. I’ve read interviews with Matt where he talks about how Chelsea always took very good care of him .
And both Zach and Matt got paid very well the whole time. They are, after all, professionals trying to build a career. And making money helps.
Finally you talk about McBride and Clint being “happy” to spend time with Fulham. What did they win there or don’t you think that some players care about that?
The USMNT needs players who are crazy enough to think they can win things anywhere not the kind of “settle for”, mediocre cash a paycheck player you want the US to produce more of.
Mediocrity, your brand.
One more thing. Josh Sargent said he signed with Werder Bremen because he felt he would have a chance to play with the first team sooner.
Well that worked out pretty great didn’t it?
Like I said, case by case basis.