Photo by ISIphotos.com
John Carver is looking for some soccer players, any soccer players.
In a story widely-reported in Canada, Carver’s Toronto FC will have to take on Chivas USA on Saturday missing nine players due to international duty. Toronto petitioned MLS to have the match re-scheduled, and the Toronto Sun reported that Chivas USA was not opposed to a re-scheduling, but MLS rejected the request.
Why? An MLS spokesman stated that MLS did not want to set a precedent by re-scheduling and felt it was unfair to other teams that might be missing players.
That response is acceptable for a team missing two or three players, but forcing a team to play without nine players is ridiculous.
The main issue isn’t the league’s decision to reject the request of re-scheduling the match. The issue is the league’s continued insistence on playing a full MLS schedule on an international fixture date. MLS deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis told media this week that the league is looking hard at trying to work around international fixture dates but that the limited number of available dates makes avoiding them all impossible.
For now, Toronto FC will have to get by without most of its best players. Here is who is missing:
- Amado Guevara (Honduras)
- Greg Sutton (Canada)
- Jim Brennan (Canada)
- Marvell Wynne (USA)
- Carl Robinson (Wales)
- Julius James (Trinidad & Tobago)
- Carlos Ruiz (Guatemala)
- Tyrone Marshall (Jamaica)
- Jarrod Smith (New Zealand)
Just how bad are things for Toronto? The club is trying to sign the team’s chief scout, Tim Regan, to a one-day contract so he can be made available for the match. Regan spent parts of five seasons as a defender in MLS before taking a position in the Toronto front office earlier this season. (UPDATE-Sources tell SBI that Regan has been cleared to play for TFC, which is also signing Toronto Lynx defender Rick Titus for the match.)
Those of you who think Toronto should just bite the bullet should consider that the decision to play the game has an impact on more than just Toronto and Chivas USA. It could impact the teams in the Western Conference that are fighting with Chivas USA for one of the likely three playoff spots in the Western Conference.
So what do you think of Toronto’s situation? Specifically, what do you think of the league’s decision to deny Toronto’s request to re-schedule the Chivas USA match?
Share your thoughts on this issue in the comments section below.
Maybe Mo Johnston should be more familiar with the ways of MLS and learn to live within them – regardless of how rigid they may be. Instead of accumulating national teamers from minor soccer playing countries, Mo should have looked to get players from places like Brazil or Argentina where you can get decent players for MLS-type $$. They are nowhere near national team caliber in their countries but as good as better than many of the national teamers who are missing TFC’s game tonight.
The only situation where TFC’s argument would hold water is if most of those missing national teamers where Canadian and thus constituting a large chunk of the national team albeit being the only MLS team north of the border. With just 2 Canadian national teamers, Houston has just as much room to gripe as TFC on that front.
I don’t disagree that WC qualfiying dates should not have MLS games on them but every MLS team knew the schedule heading into the season – whining about it now just shows a lack of planning in terms of roster preparation on TFC’s part.
Robert – a smidge harsh on that one…
not like any MLS teams covered themselves with glory in the Champs League this year. The stadium might be small, but it is an actual stadium designed for soccer – not something many teams can boast, and certainly not a piece of crap baseball field.
TFC is missing so many players and none of the teams you mentioned are missing half that many. As several have mentioned, it is not reasonable for teams in this league to lose NINE to callups and not be given dispensation.
interesting find from the Bundesliga:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=569662&cc=5901
they don’t seem to mind setting precedents.
(sorry if the link doesn’t work, just cut and paste)
hey guys, MLS isn’t going to do international dates anytime soon. it’s just not reasonable. We all know a winter schedule isn’t the best of ideas, you can’t reasonably start before March. Take a look at the 2009 FIFA match calendar. It would be basically impossible, between match dates, the Confederations Cup, the Gold Cup and the June 10 match date, you could have one weekend of matches between June 6 and July 26. six weeks. then you lose the first weekend in September, the middle of October and the middle of November. did I mention the first weekend in April? so to have a 30 game season, we’d need multiple two game weeks. Of course, with the Open Cup, we already do. So let’s assume that Open Cup is no longer open to MLS, Superliga is obviously dead, or we are looking at three match weeks for a month. That said, you’re still looking at every team having half their home matches in the middle of the week. who draws well on a Tuesday or Wednesday? not NE, not NY, not LA, not Dallas, not, well, anyone. it’s just not going to work, folks, sorry.
JB – Hmm, remind me… Isn’t TFC a second year MLS team that paid about a third of what other MLS teams paid to enter the League, with a a stadium that’s a glorified high school stadium, that also couldn’t beat a USL team to make it into Champions League with a full squad.
I’m not sure calling MLS a third-rate, Sh*t heap is making you any more credible. It’s unfortunate that TFC is missing so many players, but so are Houston, LA, Chi and others and you don’t see their coaches crying about it.
It’s strange that Carver hasn’t called out his management or Director of Soccer for not providing him a roster able to compete.
This may be a stupid question…but doesn’t TFC have a reserve team?? Not the academy team but just a reserve team…I assume this team has defenders. Couldn’t they have brought some guys up for a match? Teams in other leagues bring up reserve guys all the time if I’m not mistaken
This isn’t a defense of MLS’ decision-making, just wasn’t sure why this option wasn’t explored.
The real problem is that the MLS insists on clashing with FIFA International dates.
A credible league won’t countenance having league games on the same day as World Cup Qualifiers.
I’m a TFC season ticket holder, and yes today will be a bad day. But fact is fact: if the MLS wasn’t such a third-rate, back-water sh*t heap, then this wouldn’t be an issue for any team.
The fact MLS won’t re-schedule, effectively punishing the team for their own incompetence, tells you everything you need to know.
Add in the horrid officiating and this must be one of the most poorly-run professional leagues in the world.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that Toronto FC has four open rosters spots that they haven’t filled… with the trade and roster freeze deadlines looming perhaps TFC should have been worrying more about filling those spots and less about complaining that they were at a disadvantage.
The league should look to try and schedule around international fixtures… Perhaps making SuperLiga an every two-year event and eliminating several in season events like all-star and perhaps even two regular season games.
Your right Scott, why should we as a club pay attention to what the league is doing with it’s schedule. We should just design our roster blindly and then bitch about it after the fact.
The rules suck, but they are not new. Our management team is mentally challenged.
Ethan – Nigeria’s fine. They had clinched advancement to the final round before today’s games even started.
And South Africa are bad. By the end of the day they’ll be 3rd in that 4-country group. They likely wouldn’t even make it to the final round of African qualifying if they didn’t automaticlaly qualify for 2010.
The league needs to do something next year about international dates, not change the schedule this year for one team (and I’m no fan of MLS’ front office). However, what the league really needs a soccer version of Pete Rozelle, a commissioner who can bring the league into maturity and not keep it in toddlerdom.
Ives,
I was looking at the world cup qualifying groups all over the world. I don’t recall you commenting on that any time recently. Anyway, England’s group is really tough again. They have three soft-teams, but England, Croatia, and Ukraine are three pretty good teams. And I understand, that max two can go from one group (is that right?) There are 8 wild-cards, but can two be from the same group? Spain’s group and Greece’s group are also a bit hard to call.
And in Africa, the groups seem pretty balanced except Nigeria and South Africa being in the same group. South Africa, of course, doesn’t have to win to qualify…so that just sucks for Nigeria, but several wild card teams go into the final round in Africa too.
The poll isn’t an either/or.
There’s no way they can do this for just one team AND it’s a joke. International dates, anyone? Yipes.
This is absolutely absurd of MLS! I’m not a TFC fan, but I’m actually angry that the league would force Toronto to play a regular season match without 9 PLAYERS. Surely the fact that the club had to sign a member of the front office staff to play in the match should be a wake up call to the league’s ridiculous practices.
I’m pissed. And TFC fans should be pissed too. The product on the field isn’t as good, and the team’s chances of winning are severely hampered, all because they have players who are desired by their national teams. That should be celebrated, not punished.
This just proves every dude right that has called MLS a bush mickey mouse league!
Guys need to relax, I know this is bad, adn i feel for these teams, but the league is well aware of this and is making efforts to fix this. I remember a conversation I had with someone in the front office in November and he spoke briefly on how the weather here in the US put limits on us. Threes a lot to take in account when scheduling; weather, super liga, open cup, champions, stadiums, etc… It’s still a new league; league is doing a great job. Trust me, this will be fixed. Let’s cut them some slack this time
This is a joke; I don’t buy the precedent thing; they need to fix the scheduling, they admit that already, so why not make an exception or two until figure this out.
And for those who say Toronto has too many internationals, give me a break! Are teams not supposed to sign quality players because they might go on international duty! If that becomes the case I’ll never watch an MLS game again, what a joke! This hits Toronto especially hard because they need to sign Canadian players, from the much smaller Canadian player pool.
MLS needs to start the season earlier; schedule most home games in the South/California in March and in the North in July/August, Duh! Who wants to play in Houston in July? As for international dates, you might not be able to avoid all of them, but you have to avoid World cup qualifiers – no player is going to miss those.
And finally, another issue pointing to the fact that MLS teams need more depth. MLS, let teams sign more senior players and give them the cap space to pay them!
scott,
i’ve been faithfully watching US matches since the late 80’s. being a longsuffering fan of the nats has never been an issue, we all are building a soccer culture here and these things take time. however, as of late- primarily since the hiring of bob bradley, the decisions being made (we all know the situation) and the lack of transparency with those decisions has turned me off. it has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with the general progression of the team. we have much improved talet over 12 years ago, but we are still suffering the same results- in tournaments 1-1-1, out the 1st match of the 2nd round… at best.
the Federation’s decisions hinder the Nats and MLS decisions seem to be curbing any momentum the league has gained.
all my opinion of course, but i’m tired of being a chearleader for the league and nats while they make detrimental decisions. i’m sorry, but treating the best fanbase in the league to a very subpar product is ridiculous. mls really needs to stop assuming that it’s foundation of fans are here no matter what. we’re not as dumb as they think we are.
btw- if everyone really wants to start a petition, one the first orders of business would be to support the players in mls with decent salaries… especially the league minimum.
52/34 = %65 of the year is the MLS season
Currently you are really only excluding November,December,January and February fully from the season. You might be able to squeeze a few extra weekends into the calendar but if you reduce games you reduce revenue and therefore you reduce funds available for players. TFC started their year on the road. Is it fair for them to have an unbalanced schedule and start the year with 5 or 6 road games every year?
http://web.mlsnet.com/schedule/scoreboard/season.jsp?team=t280
“Toronto was part of the process when we made up this schedule,” Gazidis said. “We have a 34-game calendar with 35 weekends. There is no room this season.”
I’m in two minds about this (as a TFC fan)
1) not respecting the dates is a joke. If they league can’t find away around them completely, they should at least try partially.
2) Mo Johnston is half to blame for this situation. He knew the players that he signed were capped by national teams, he knew MLS didn’t respect the dates. Is signing Marco Valez or Jarred Smith really worth it when you consider they’ll be out of town along with your very best players on international dates? They easily could have been replaced by players from better footballing countries that have no chance of winning a cap.
It’s not enough that the league gifts us a ton of extra international spots, we can’t even use them properly.
PS. This is amateur & embarrassing.
This is a major confidence loss in MLS executive decision-making for me. Short-sighted and harmful to the league’s reputation. What a shame.
I can’t believe MLS thought it would be BETTER for the league to sign “a bunch of guys” to 1-day contracts just to fill the field! ARE YOU KIDDING!!! Professional leagues don’t do that!!!!!!!
As much as I hate TFC and the battery chucking fans, MLS has to respect FIFA international dates just like every other top flight league in the world.
I think the main reason the league wouldn’t allow the change of date would be the back lash from all the other teams when they have been in similar situations. It’s bad all the way around. For the teams, the fans and the league. Garber is really screwing up.
Jozy Altidore scores a hat trick in yesterdays Villarreal friendly vs San Rafael del RÃo
It’s just ridiculous that MLS refuses to recognize FIFA international dates. I just don’t get it.
Last year, the league set up the schedule around David Beckham’s availability. How is it that the league can form their schedule around one player, but yet continue to ignore FIFA international dates?
Here’s another thought – last year, the MLS Cup final was scheduled on a FIFA international date. As it turned out, neither Houston nor New England were affected. But England was playing on that date so had LA been playing in the final, they would have been without Beckham. You can bet that if that had been the case, MLS would have rescheduled the game.
in truth, this is a bit of a joke.
you can argue that tfc should have known what it was getting into in signing players that have the potential to be internationals, however, if man united was playing the same day as england, would anyone make the same point to man united, “you should have known…”.
if don garber is so concerned with upping the level of play in mls, this has to change.
mls has, yet again, got this wrong.
I don’t buy the argument that respecting international dates would make the season too long; there were several weekends earlier in the season where MLS did not play a full slate. Could this game not have been moved to one of the weekends earlier in the season when TFC had a bye weekend? The same goes for other teams as well.
I’m thinking, though that the real issue here is that the league is starting to outgrow Don Garber. Garber seems stuck in the 1990s version of MLS – a small, developing league with low salary caps, small rosters and little need to respect international dates because most international players were playing elsewhere. Well, things have changed since then – the quality of players has greatly improved, a number of external competitions have been created and there are more international players in the league. Yet the small roster sizes, the small salary caps and the ignorance of international dates continue.
The league needs a president who can take the league out of the 1990s mindset to the next level.
Looks like MLS might finally address this for next year:
http://torontosun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/09/05/6666966-sun.html
How much of this would be alleviated by an increase in roster size and the salary cap? If you bumped the cap to, say $3mil/team, and game them 32 roster slots instead of 28, how much would that help everyone with fixture congestion and int’l call-ups?
“You can blame the ugly results on the boatload of injuries to both New England (which loss its series to Trinidad & Tobago club Joe Public by an aggregate score of 6-1) and Chivas USA (which lost its series to Panamanian club Tauro FC 3-1), or you could choose to ignore that and use the results to condemn MLS for its salary cap and roster constraint”
Two days ago Ives was pandering with this angle offering no alternatives. The masses felt the “MLS needs to Change”.
To what folks?
Shakes,
I have nothing against TFC. I did grow up on the south side of the great lakes and freeze my butt off every winter and I know soccer in Toronto in the winter on field turf would suck. I have fond memories of visiting Ontario place as a teenager and watching the old school IMAX movie and actually like the city of Toronto a lot.
What I really do have a problem with is when Ives leads the populist bandwagon and doesn’t objectively look at situations that he should be knowledgeable on. It is very easy to criticize the leagues policies and not offer alternative solutions. I think his write up on this issue is weak and lacking depth that he should be capable of.
Galaxy fans, are you aware of just how blatantly stupid you sound? You’re comparing missing 4 players to missing 9? Really? You’re that dense? And don’t blame fans of other teams for bringing up LA in this instance. It was one of your own mollycoddled fans (TJ) who brought up LA in comparison to TFC.
Anyway, this is another minor league move by MLS. If you’re going to be stupid enough to schedule games on World Cup qualifier dates, you have to give teams some leeway. And it’s a total cop out to argue that you shouldn’t reschedule because it’s hard to say where the line is in terms of how many players have to be missing to have a game rescheduled. It’s clear that whatever the line is, 9 is over it. Deal with borderline cases as they come. Do the right thing here. And then fix the scheduling problem next year. It’s that hard to start the season two or three weeks earlier? Really?
The league office needs some new blood with common sense. It’s losing touch with the real world.
Ossington M.Y. is right. The people here who are are using this as an excuse to bash a club that, for whatever reason, they don’t like are being as stupid as they are childish.
Regardless of whether or not the league can or should take a course of action other than the one they did (and I’m not saying they should), no club in the history of MLS has been impacted so significantly by international call-ups that I can recall. No club would have reacted any differently than TFC is reacting.
And Tim, I hope you weren’t really being serious about TFC being to blame for signing “so many international players”. This league will go nowhere if people maintain that attitude.
Gotta say its pretty amazing that people are defending this out of spite for TFC as this is something that effects all teams and to do away with this would benefit all teams. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Thanks for bringing attention to this Ives!
Greatly Appreciated.
Support hopefully wont be any less (if anything it should be greater) than any other game. I hope our boys can pull it out.
I also hope that the MLS starts to take steps to alleviate further situations like this (even less likely, im sure they may however take babysteps)
Sounds like a problem that could be solved by not signing so many international players. This is TFC’s fault, not MLS’s.
I say that Yes, missing 9 players is a joke, and Yes, we should welcome the repercussions that will hopefully force MLS to align to international dates.
The result of the MLS schedule is insuring that the best players will be guaranteed to never play a full season. That is a fundamental flaw in the league management.
I’ve started to wonder, in recent times, if we need new blood in the position of commissioner. This is probably premature, but I have to think that it could be possible we need someone new to take this league to a new level. I believe the results of the player’s agreements at the end of this season will determine whether MLS is still going in a strong direction.
This is really silly. And, it speaks to MLS’ problems with lack of depth. I do think that missing nine players would constitute a good reason to postpone a match – for the quality of football to say the least. It’s one thing to put staff into reserve matches (a joke) but it’s another thing to take scouts, no matter whether they used to play in MLS or not, into league games (not even funny).
If MLS decided this is the right decision, fine. But, I will only accept that if they take action following this season to NEVER let it happen again.
kpugs – how has the league treated LA differently? I’m no Galaxy fan, but I hear this said all the time, and never backed up. They extended exemptions for Donovan and Ruiz (before he signd with LA) from DP status, but that’s about it. They also forced an unworkable schedule on LA last year.
If it’s “obvious” as you say, there must be many many examples, no?
I agree with Shakes that one of the things MLS is doing is sending out a message to be wary of signing quality players. It’s no good if signing internationals has such major handicaps. This is just encouraging more penny pinching and water-treading in the league.
And thumpjosh: That’s silly that the us mens team has lost you as a fan. Maybe they haven’t gotten the results recently, but they’ve always played with heart. Be a real fan
As stated, the real issue is MLS’ goofy scheduling, using international dates for full league play. But given that we’re stuck with this crummy aspect of the league, for now, I’m not sure the decision as given is so wrong.
Missing nine players is a lot, yes. But where’s the line? Six is OK, but seven is too many? Eight? If you do this for the team that’s missing nine players, what justification do you use for not doing it later when a team is missing eight? What if the team is missing nine players, but some are from international callups and others are from injury? Why is a player missing for a callup justification for rescheduling, but a player missing from injury is not?
Instead of showing the league our contempt over this decision, we should be showing the league our contempt over their dumbass scheduling on international dates.
For those telling TFC to not pick international players…who are they supposed to pick exactly? Most Canadian players are intelligent, playing in soccer hungry countries in Europe. Of the ones playing in MLS (who make the national team), Brennan and Sutton are with Toronto (but are not the #1s at their position), while there’s Serioux with Dallas and, of course, De Rosario in Houston. I rather doubt Houston would want to give him up.
Meanwhile, American’s who come back to MLS want to play at home (see Brian McBride), not in Toronto.
And there are many reasons why they are still looking up from the bottom, despite the internationals. The team has been a revolving door, players coming and going all season long. The team needs time to gel properly, which won’t happen until next season (or farther away even, since they still have some holes to plug. Sometimes their defenders seem to want to get a drink rather than play the ball carrier)
@Shakes
Please, spare me. My ticket rep has played for the Galaxy this season already. You guys should really stop whining about the Galaxy. We will be missing the core of our team as we always do when internationals come around. We don’t cry about it, we just accept that we are going to play worse than usual and get out there. Where was this TFC whining 2 weeks ago when we were missing the same 4 players when we played Chicago? Get over it.
This is a problem with MLS, don’t bring other clubs into this.
For everyone else going on about our DPs: THe league did not grant us ‘A THOUSAND DPS!!1!!’, they gave us Landon because he was already signed to a higher salary as well as Eddie Johnson and Carlos Ruiz. EJ left and we traded for Ruiz. We had the additional 1 DP slot that every team got. Now you have Ruiz and a DP slot. Let’s get our facts straight.
the us mens team has lost me as a fan and mls is slowly losing me as a fan. i’ve convinced dozens of euro soccer snobs over the last two years to turn an eye toward mls. mls is shooting themselves in the foot. hey, if you’re going to charge 50 million for a franchise, you better allow your franchises to put a team on the field. good job mls, way to treat the most passionate fans in the league.
effing mls.
@ Brant
“How Toronto can have *that* many players worthy of callups and *still* suck is beyond me.”
You answered your own question. Our roster has had no consistency, because different people keep getting called up every week. Our lengthy losing/drawing skid coincided with the beginning of international call-ups, and Dichio’s injury.
@ CD
We get it. You don’t like Toronto FC. You’ve posted like ten times here, just slagging the club.
@ “Ivan”
“You shouldn’t have picked up soo many players from other countries. This is your own doing. Try to remember this for next year.”
Sadly, this is exactly the message the league is sending. Don’t bother signing good players – they might get called up.
This isn’t about wanting to reschedule because TFC is missing their best players – we have played without our best squad many times. It’s about wanting to reschedule because TFC can’t even FIELD A PROPER SQUAD. We are signing our chief scout to play, for God’s sake!
So for all of you guys talking about how the Galaxy are missing Beckham, Donovan, etc… you’re going to have to move on to a separate argument.
– Scott
I hate to say this, because it really IS a joke, but MLS would just be treating the other teams unfairly.
Calm down TFC I’m about to back you up, sort of.
Hey, MLS, YOU HAVE ALREADY SET THAT EFFING PRECEDENT!!!!!!!!!!!
This league has treated teams differently for the ENTIRETY of said league’s existence! The biggest benefactor has obviously been L.A.
So while I may agree with the league’s decision in principle, they are a bunch of (insert any bad word you want here) for even DARING to say they don’t want to give unfair treatment to another club as their reason.
So sure, I agree with the decision, but their reason is complete and total horsecrap. Maybe you shouldn’t have granted a team with one DP slot A THOUSAND DP’S you buttmunches.
As I’ve said countless times before, this league is a complete and total joke. I’m with the TFC fans in spirit on this one. If they were the Galaxy the match would have been postponed before the Galaxy even made the request.
MLS, go suck an egg.
A 10 month season is not needed. Just an extra month. Begin at the beginning of March instead of April. Still snow on the ground in some places? Wipe that sh*t off the field. It’s done in Europe; hell, it’s done in American Football. Nobody’s gonna come watch soccer in the freezing cold? Then move your team to the South. Otherwise, learn to sell your product so they will. Solutions abound, but nobody wants to be the one to bite the bullet.