Wondering what the image above is? It is the chemical make-up of androstatriendione, the substance that led to the suspensions of Red Bulls goalkeeper Jon Conway and Jeff Parke. If you haven’t heard of it, it’s because it is an obscure chemical compound that isn’t even tested for by most professional leagues in the United States.
So how did this unknown substance lead to a pair of record suspensions? Major League Soccer has adopted a drug testing policy it has long championed as one of the strictest in professional sports and it proved it this week, with its 10-game ban for Conway and Parke.
So what is androstatriendione (ATD)?
It is a substance that, once ingested, can produce the steroid boldenone. Androstatriendione is a substance that can be found in over-the-counter nutritional supplements and one that Red Bulls head trainer Rick Guter stated came from a supplement taken by Conway and Parke, a supplement that did not include ATD in its list of ingredients.
Androstatriendione itself is not a steroid, but can produce a steroid in some people who ingest it.
Neither the club or MLS is going to identify the supplement because of legal issues, but it is clear that there are concerns about store-bought supplements being contaminated with substances that can produce steroid-like effects.
Here is my question. Do you think a 10-game ban is fair or too harsh for a substance that isn’t even tested for by the nation’s three major sports?
Share your thoughts below.
Harsh
The players union knows which of these “vitamin chain stores” are and should do a better job of informing the players which of their products the should avoid.
Then again the players are English speaking/reading adults who should have done a better job researching the product.
However MLS players should step in and give these two players some money thats a big hit on thier salary.
unless you can read Parke and Conway’s minds you don’t know whether they really did or did not know it was in the product.
So since you can’t read minds, you have to treat everyone according to the letter of the law. Red Bull fans can stop crying now.
These “natural” vitamins and supplements aren’t really regulated at all, and anything (and everything!) can be in them. I think most people know that, and most athletes do. Unless these players were taking them on the advice of trainers or doctors, which I doubt, they were playing with fire. If it was to “get an edge” or to just cope with the long season isn’t the point, they were stupid to put something in their bodies they weren’t absolutely sure of.
Again with the jean shorts? That lame post has been going on for waaay too long to be funny, and it wasnt the 1st time. I feel bad for JCO what a trying year and he is a dynamic coach…hang tough boys and stick w/ Redbull boost next time!
What this tells me is that MLS thinks its worse to accidentally ingest a banned substance than to sucker punch somebody, or to kick somebody in the head. And I’m not even a RedBull fan.
I work as a research chemist, and I have never seen soccer and chemistry align so well. Too bad it had to be under these circumstances.
They got the shaft. It’s not listed, how were they supposed to know? Have PhD’s in organic chemistry? Better hope banana peels or poppy seeds trip the drug-testing trigger …
That’s the second time I’ve seen you mention Jersey people in jean shorts Joey. Get some new material
Unless they were taking this because without it (insert lame cliche about how they might die, kill people or lose their minds) and they just plain didn’t know the chemical was in there:
BULLSHIT.
The lesson here: RBNY trainers weren’t being told of EVERYTHING that the players were ingesting which makes the players really stupid. They’re pro athletes, so way to show that concern and appreciation for the money we spend for them to play a kids game.
In terms of harshness of the penalties, in 2006 there were 2 Track and Field athletes banned for 3 (three) years for exactly the same offense.
Nice. Hanz and Franz must be the in-house trainers for NYRB. Red Bulls are getting jacked and toning the guns. Soon you NJ fans won’t need to worry about soccer, you’ll get to see your favorite players yoked out, posing on the NJ shore like it’s Muscle Beach, all cut up and oiled down in jean shorts drinking red bull. I heard Balco is going to start advertising at Giants stadium…
kc20, do you think they would come and say: “We DID do it to cheat.”
KSWISS,
Parke and Conway DID prove that they had no idea. The league admits they had no idea. That is why I say they screwed up, they didnt cheat. Again, every person I have spoken to has said that they did not do it to cheat.
This is FAR too harsh. All of you who think it is fair understand that they really did not know. Everyone who knows or is close to the situation say that they did NOT take the supplement to enhance performance. Why didn’t the MLS list the supplement as having the banned substance?? The MLS does not even have a policy on the length of suspensions. They sort of made it up as they went along. They made a mistake. Punish them for that. But 10 games for screwing up…not cheating…is too much.
Just because the Big Three American leagues don’t ban it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t — no one would consider those leagues at the forefront of drug testing. I find it far more significant that as near as I can tell, androstatriendione is not identified by name on the list of prohibited substances put out by the World Anti-Doping Agency — http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2008_List_En.pdf. So does this mean that MLS is more restrictive than WADA, or is it known by another name?
Regardless, these are the rules that all league players are subject to. Generally speaking, ignorance has never been an excuse for taking a banned substance — just ask those Dominican players who tested positive in baseball when their drug testing program started going into effect, as well as many other athletes all over the world. The question is not whether Parke and Conway should be suspended, but whether the length of suspension is consistent with the league’s guidelines governing positive drug tests. If so, this is a no-brainer. Otherwise, MLS should explain how it arrived at the punishment.
Look…it’s a banned substance. That’s the bottom line.
I think 10 games *might* be a little harsh for a substance that isn’t itself a steroid, but it’s not *that* harsh. The substance is banned, they took it, they have to face the music. Unfortunately for me and my fellow fans.
Given the situation that it wasn’t even listed on the ingredients of the supplement as well as the fact that other major sports do not test for it, this suspension was way too harsh. Conway is awful nonetheless.
Rich, I don’t know if there was intent in either of the players’ hearts or what they ingested. And maybe this list of banned substances hasn’t been communicated well enough to the players. But steroids isn’t all about becoming hulking. A lot of times it’s fairly average people athletically-speaking trying to get an edge with recovery time or put them over to above-average. It’s not all Mark McGwire’s or Sammy Sosa’s. Can’t judge their innocence or guilt on how they look or guessing that they took vitamins
“This is not the Olympics! Or Pro baseball or boxing. Chances are these guys were tired, needed some energy”
Hey all you dopers! If you can’t hack it in those other sports without your drugs, come out and play soccer! Get a little tired and you can take whatever you want as a quick pick-me up.
“my only concern is that in the past players have tested positive by MLS for illegal drugs and got a pass. What’s different this time?”
Name one.
Sorry, man, no time to comment on issue of steroid-sucking athletes, man, must get going to find my organic delta-plant subatomic seaweed straight from Mongolia, man, where it is grown in deep hydroponic conditions by flummoxed monks with really wide spaced-out eyes, man. It is a MUST, man! Have a nice chat while I strum on my moon lute.
I’ve already ranted in the last two posts, but it seems to me that the intent is simply not there. Jeff Parke…hulking steroid cheater?? C’mon! This is not the Olympics! Or Pro baseball or boxing. Chances are these guys were tired, needed some energy, like one of those little Vitamin B 5-hour Energy bottles you see at the counter, and the team gets screwed, possibly out of the playoffs. Were they stupid for not checking w/ trainers? Yes. Were they wrong to not tell coach/ team? Maybe. But were they cheaters that deserved this ridiculously long suspension and excessive fine? I don’t think so. This is the least talked about “Pro” league in US Sports with the least paid “Pro” athletes. Lesson learned, reduce the penalties.
Do I go around buying stocks on inside information? No, because it’s my responsibility to know the rules of my profession. If there’s even a 0.0001% chance the SEC could say I have inside knowledge, I stay away.
I don’t have an ounce of sympathy for these clowns.
Here’s a question i pose to all…what if conway and parke had consulted their trainer, and he approved of the nutritional supplement because the illegal substance(by mls standards) were not posted in the ingredients…what now? Does mls even suspend the players? do they fine and suspend the trainer? just a thought
I coached at the D-1 level more than 10 years ago and the message to university athletes was do not take OTC supplements b/c you do not know that is in them (this was during the androstenedione and creatine days craze).
The whole point of the supplement industry is to be unregulated, so athletes are essentially experimenting on themselves (knowingly too). And it’s been no secret for a long time that you are not going to find all ingredients listed, especially because key ingredients in many of them are designer steroids and steroid precursors. How do you think the popularity of some take off so fast? “Holy crap, I gained 10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks–Or holy crap, I recover 2x as fast from workouts and injury! This is great stuff!” It ain’t fairy dust in there boys.
here’s a question i pose to everyone…..what if conway and parke had consulted with their trainer and he approved the nutritional supplement because it didn’t state it had the illegal substance(by mls standards) in its ingredients? what now? Does MLS even suspend the players? Do they fine and suspend their trainer? just a thought
Androstatriendione is an aromatase inhibitor. It blocks the conversion of testosterone to estradiol. In doing so, the body tries to make more testosterone to compensate for an apparent loss of estradiol. Thus, there is an indirect boost in testosterone as a result of the aromatase inhibitor.
Testosterone is a naturally occurring anabolic steroid in males. So, theoretically, the aromatase inhibitor could yield the equivalent of taking steroids directly (i.e., more steroid). From what I can gather, testosterone does go up quite a bit as a result of at least some aromatase inhibitors. However, these are results from controlled clinical investigations in which the inhibitor is given in known amounts. I’m not at all sure what the effect of taking the “supplements” with an unknown amount of inhibitor would be. I guess it really comes down to intent of the players. Did they do it to, knowingly or hopefully, circumvent the steroid abuse rules of the league? If so, they deserve punishment.
This really isn’t too harsh. The suspension is roughly a third of the season, which is nearly same punishment for testing positive in baseball now. Parke and Conway f-ed up but I don’t think we’ll be seeing anyone test positive for a very long time.
FAIR!
The other US professioanl sports leagues have some of the most lax drug policies in the world. The standard is much higher elsewehre in the world and kudos to MLS for trying to hold its league to a higher standard.
You can’t judge the players intent. So you have to treat them as they cheated. If they had cleared the suplement then they’d have a case to complain about the maufacturer, since they didn’t its irrelevent.
Harsh? Yes. Justified? Also yes. If they can prove they had no idea, then MLS could commute a few games for a probationary period of extra testing. But either way, MLS did well to make a strong statement about taking performance-enhancing drugs, and having responsibility as an athlete for what you put in your body.
does anyone have a link to the full list of banned substances? this so-called SABH?
I agree that a players today should not even take an aspirin without checking with the trainer or team medical staff. But did the trainer even know that this supplement contained ATD? And I hope that there is some sort of investigation into companies products with listing ALL the ingredients.
Are 10 games too many? Perhaps, if this could be proved as accidental. But suspension is warranted and it couldn’t have come at a worse time for Red Bull.
@J
Because weed is not a performance enhancing drug unless you’re maybe a hyper-active Right Back like a Hejduck type who swallows 8 Starbucks a day for his energy and needs to come back down to planet speed for a bit.
Holy crap, Obama looks menacing/disgusted in the McCain ad on the left
Reminds me of I think the Merriman defense when he tested positive. OTC supplements are not FDA approved so thier ingrediants can vary per bottle, as most people know. And as the the gentlemen said above, your a professional athelet with lots of avenues at your disposal.. use them
my only concern is that in the past players have tested positive by MLS for illegal drugs and got a pass. What’s different this time?
An overreaction by a league that always has a inferiority complex.
WAY too harsh for the circumstances we know about (there may be others that justify it, but from all reports so far – nah).
Suspend them for half that (5 games), and they basically would still miss the rest of the season and the beginning of next. And it would STILL be harsh and a strong statement.
I think it is justified. Why would you risk taking OTC drugs unless you were looking for an edge (legal or illegal). It’s not like they are 60 and buying vitamins or anti-arthritis meds. They are young and should only need Motrin once in awhile. Even if they did not know, it was an unnecessary risk considering how big of a problem steroids has come (and how much people have been cracking down on it).
If all that is true, I feel bad for the guys… but in the 2008 pro sports world, you go through your trainer.
Seems like suspensions are usually negotiated down. So I won’t be surprised if the 10 games becomes 5 if the players can prove all this to the league.
Half of the stuff you get from these chain vitamin stores isn’t even approved by the FDA. Conway & Parke certainly took their chances when they bought and used this stuff.
10 games does seem harsh on the surface but hopefully it prevents other MLS players from going outside the guidelines set by the league and their team’s training staff.
Time for New York’s midfield and defense to step up!
When compared to Olympic drug testing as well as cycling, the major US sports’ drug policies are extremely lax. It sounds like the MLS policy is just closer to WADA standards.
It sucks that it wasn’t labeled correctly, but if MLS lets them slide, everyone will use that excuse. Players in the NFL have been suspended under the same circumstances for 4-8 games, which is 25-50% of their season.
@WTF
WTF are you talking about. This is a justified penalty. If this just got sweeped under the rug or just a slap on the wrist, then we would be come the MLB of soccer. Granted rico clark and sala should have gotten stricter penalties. This sends a strong message that drugs even in a mistake will not be allowed in MLS. Which makes MLS a top tier league.
Based on this:
“It is a substance that, once ingested, can produce the steroid boldenone. Androstatriendione is a substance that can be found in over-the-counter nutritional supplements and one that Red Bulls head trainer Rick Guter stated came from a supplement taken by Conway and Parke, a supplement that did not include ATD in its list of ingredients.”
they should appeal, and win. And sue the manufacturer.
Just because they say it wasn’t in the label, and they didn’t mean to take it, doesn’t make that fact! You have to take anything like that with a handful of salt in today’s steroid era unfortunatley.
I think it was fair. They have a full team of professional trainers to advise them on things like this. No reason they couldn’t talk to the staff before taking it upon themselves to buy supplements.
I also don’t buy the “not knowing what they were taking” excuse. Why buy a non-prescribed supplement without knowing what that supplement is for? And why else would not one, but two players be taking it?
Sorry, but this is WAY too harsh of a penalty when the ingredients are not even listed on the supplement. To make this the longest penalty in league history, with absolutely no intent is a joke, and honestly makes the league look like a laughing stock. What about when someone actually tries to rig the system (or their own for that matter) and takes a banned substance on purpose? Additionally, to suspaned them longer than players who have caused physical harm to other players ON THE PITCH (ie: Ricardo Clark and Dario Sala), is a travesty. These are the sort of things that if they continue will always make MLS a second or third tier league. Who would want to play for a league that makes arbitrary and totally ridiculous decisions like this?
i can’t even tell you how disappointing this is being a red bulls fan.
every year its something different.
10 games i think is plenty, the players are informed of what they can and can’t take. No matter what the red bulls are again out of the playoffs.
the only thing i can say positive is that red bull park will open in 09
It is………what it is!!!!!!!
I believe it was fair, and will continue to deter others from banned substances. However, what if it was found in Donovan, Becks, Blanco etc… I don’t think they would have had the same punishment.