Photo by ISIphotos.com
Unless you are a die-hard New York Red Bulls fan or a San Jose Earthquakes fan, chances are you missed their game last Saturday night, which means you probably didn't see Arturo Alvarez draw what wound up being the match-winning penalty converted by Ryan Johnson.
The play looked every bit like a dive, and one of the weaker dives in MLS in recent memory, but I will let you, the SBI readers, vote on whether you agree.
Dive, or not a dive? (video and poll after the jump):
Cast your vote here:
What's my take? After watching the full broadcast replay repeatedly, it is a pretty clear dive, with Alvarez taking a touch and a step before an invisible sniper shot him in the left leg.
What did you think? Share your thoughts below.
It’s clear to anyone looking at that clip that he wasn’t touched before going down. If he did just trip over his own two feet then it was a bad call, but when I trip over my own feet my legs don’t mule kick out behind me.
I’m with the folks who think he probably just lost his balance. Not a dive, but also definitely not a foul and PK.
People do fall down.
That was a huge dive, the Red Bulls players werent even touching him when he went down. How the reff called that, the only thing I can say is that he is an Earthquakes fan or hates the Red Bulls. That is one of the worst calls I have seen all season. It just goes to show how bad of a season the Red Bulls are having.
Looks like he lost to ball so he took the dive
Question – how about a list of the leagues most notorious divers and then we’ll take a look and see it there’s any common thread?
Looks like he fell and the ref blew the call
I do not believe it was a dive but the referee made the wrong call in making it a penalty. the contact was outside the box and thus the the foul should be from outside the 18. So however you want to look at it the referee does make a mistake.
re: above
“Quakesland” was supposed to be “Quakes fan”
Fascinating to watch my fingers disobeying my brian….
That call is a teaching clinic for kids watching the game. That is, use the ref to your advantage. If we are to see better performances from our players we need to step up the quality and fairness of the game officiating. Dive or not the whistle stays in your pocket if you are the official and interested in making the correct calls. I am not accusing the official of bias but there must have been some bent that way to call that a foul worthy of a PK. I just wish the league would comment on these type of things and show us their attempts to get better officiating, even if it means adding an official.
I used to study a bit of the biomechanics of human locomotion and have looked at the video numerous times.
Walking/running is a series of controlled falls, afterall, and if you watch closely enough you can see he is bumped, but his body responds naturally for two steps (one for each foot) of catching his slightly off-balanced fall well within the parameters necessary to stay upright.
His third step, with his left foot, is clearly not a natural process and appears to be driven, toe-first, into the ground, with no natural attempt to swing it forward under the central mass.
He tripped himself after the fact.
As you might guess from my nom de Internet, I’m a Quakesland. And it was a dive. Fairly blatant one at that.
Quote 1: I blame players like Schelotto and Moreno for spreading this cancer across the league.
—-
You must be a Fire fan.
Quote 2: GBS, Blanco, Gaven, Rogers, and Espindola have made this common practice in MLS now.
—-
Watching the Crew against Seattle was painful…it appeared they were trying to get PKs rather than just playing the game. However, Rogers (who had a terrible match and tripped over his laces several times)is just weak and goes down every single time someone bumps into him, GBS is no worse than any other South American player, Gaven stopped doing that. Moreno, on the other hand, should be benched for this crap. It’s pathetic and embarrassing. Even when there is a foul, his reputation will make fans and refs doubt that there was any (illegal) contact.
I think JVC and Deuce are on it here.
There is a foul outside the box but Alvarez tries to play through (which is admirable). As soon as he takes that bad touch and realizes the play is gone, he changes his mind and erases all that may have once been admirable by diving in the box.
I think that first facial expression says it all. Looks to me like he knows he messed up and is a bit embarrassed.
Looks like a clear trip by the line of the penalty area. Did the line get carded on the play?
I’m a RB fan, and I didn’t see it as a clear dive. I agree with The Rick and Mig: there was some light contact – not enough for a foul – that could have caused the fall. I wouldn’t have called anything on the play, either way.
‘can’t help, but think he’s thinking…’
(sorry. It’s late over here.)
When I see his second facial expression I can’t help he’s thinking…”I’ll go with a neutral facial expression. That way I look noble if I get a penalty kick, and shocked if I get a yellow card for diving.”
Would have been an excellent no call.
Deuce made the call.
I don’t need to watch the replay of the play to know it was a dive, just the replay of the players face after the call which tells me “guilty as charged”.
I think they need one ref per player, each with his own instant replay system, and the ability to stop the game at any point. It’s the only way to prevent injustice being done!
Absolute dive. Good thing he plays for the Sallies now. I don’t want that garbage on my team.
MG3 – i agree.
it was a foul, but outside of the box. the defender to the right clearly tripped him (accidentally but a foul nonetheless). this caused Alvarez to embellish the trip and fall (inside of the box). (sure he could have fought to keep his balance but he’s a sissy and instead let his body fall forward).
1. it was a foul
2. outside of the box
3. he embellished the foul
cuz he embellished, I voted “Dive” but really it’s
D. it was a foul outside of the box and he was a sissy for embellishing.
Looks to me like a player who just sucks, and fell over. But the problem lies more with the ref, and not the player. The refs are there to decide whether or not to call a foul.
In my opinion, a dive should either
A. be a penalty and red card for fouler(botched call)
B. red card for diver
NO MIDDLE GROUND.
But first, lets get the right refs in the right positions. UEFA is experimenting with two additional officials behind the goals. MLS needs to experiment with two refs in each half, four on the sidelines, and four behind the goals. While they’re at it, Garber should by a Predator Drone from the Army to patrol from above.
i think the first close up of his face is him thinking, “oh crap, they caught me.” the 2nd one he is clearly trying to conceal his gloating “i got away with it” face.
dive dive dive
people who are not diving are doing 1 thing, trying to stay up on their feet.
Where was the effort?
After watching him fighting through two defenders with such amazing balance and dexterity, falling like that is just a blatant dive.
I also like the point how he stays up through the light contact outside of the box, then falls immediately inside the box.
(SBI-Yes, the facial expressions are priceless, if he were a suspect on Lie to Me he would have been caught in 0.1 seconds.)
At most he was sandwiched a bit and it knocked him off balance. If your going to call that a foul fine (as long as the game had been called that way already) but either way the contact was outside the box and he was already on his way down before he crossed the line. Just because he LANDED in the box does not give him the penalty.. sigh
GBS, Blanco, Gaven, Rogers, and Espindola have made this common practice in MLS now.
I hate RBNY but one thing I can say is that they lose with grace and their star player plays like a man.
As an ex-player, a clumsy one at that, I believe that he just lost his balance and fell. I don’t think it was a straight out dive.
As a referee, jeez guys, if you haven’t ref’ed you can’t believe how hard it is. Depending on his angle, he might have thought a penalty occurred.
Looks like a no call to me, not a dive. He just lost his balance and the ref called a foul.
I’ve had to look at the video 4 times to come to the conclusion that he seems to have been stepped on and lightly fouled….seems to have gone down from the contact and did not dive outrageously.
The fact, though, that I had to look at it 4 times leads me to the Second conclusion… if I were the referee, I would have kept the whistle in my pocket.
I am not a fan of either club and harbor no animosity toward either so please keep those comments in check.
(SBI-I thought the same thing at first blush, that he had some contact, but if you watch his left leg from the beginning of the sequence, he proceeds to take a touch and a solid step after Ubiparipovic makes what could have been contact. It really looks like he realizes after the fact that he’s been touched and that he should go down, only he had already begun new actions after that contact.)
There was a little bit of contact on his left leg as he plants it, but not enough to even make him stumble. He felt the contact, realized that his touch had gotten away from him, and he went down like a ton of bricks. A dive for sure. Watching live from the refs angle, it probably looked like a foul.
alvarez belongs with the el sal national team rather than usa. wouldn’t be surprised to hear he spent the rest of the match writhing on the turf any time anybody breathed on him, just to waste time.
I have to say it was a dive pure and simple, he kicked his own feet, and he got up and looked around to see if any one saw it.
Completely impartial observer here…
It is too close to call it a blatant dive even on replay. The key for me it to watch a the contact a step before Alvarez actually goes down.
Just as they come towards the area the defender to Alvarez’s left tackles in with his right foot and appears to make contact with Alvarez’s left.
Alvarez is off-balance as he keeps moving forward and as he brings up his left foot it makes contact with his right and he goes down without any immediate contact.
It easily could be that the defender knocked Alvarez’s left foot into his right leg or that Alvarez simply threw it there when he felt the contact. The motion of his leg is pretty natural for the contact though so if it was a dive, you can’t call it blatant.
I blame players like Schelotto and Moreno for spreading this cancer across the league.
these are the dives that need to be punished after the fact. when there is clear evidence of obvious diving, suspend the guy for a couple of games and fine the team/player. the ref can’t be blamed, he is doing the best he can.
these are the dives that need to be punished after the fact. when there is clear evidence of obvious diving, suspend the guy for a couple of games and fine the team/player. the ref can’t be blamed, he is doing the best he can.
Yeah, I love how he fell right inside the box. At the very least, you have to admire the focus it takes to wait to dive until the perfect moment. It was amazingly blatant.
I go with KL’s first comment. No intent but also no foul.
There are far too many occasions when even announcers only see two options, Dive or PK, and ignore the third one. When a player acts hurt or gets hurt is another example: 1) foul, 2) faking, or 3) no foul but not faking. There are three possibilities and you saw the third option happen in the Chelsea Liverpool game twice to Drogba and Torres. Both went down hard and were in legitimate pain but neither was a foul instead merely contact after getting the ball.
(SBI-Mig, there was no contact with Alvarez after he takes a touch and before he simulates, so the contact and natural fall theory is VERY tough to sell. It’s tough on the ref to say he blew the call because Alvarez does a good sell job, but the replay gives him away.)
now just imagine the outrage if this game actually had playoff implicatins for the 2 teams playing or other teams chasing. its time for MLS to start issuing retro-fines or suspensions
That dive clinched RBNY’s position as 2nd overall in the MLS draft
I’m a Fire supporter so I don’t have a dog in this fight.
That was a DIVE!!! 100%. Cheat that guy is.
The foul was outside of the box, but he remained upright and it looks like he went to ground exactly on the 18 yard box line. It looked like there was a tripwire directly over the 18 yard box line.
gounited-what are you watching
Yeah KL, when people trip over themselves or lose balance, they fall in a completely different manner. There is an effort to stay up on their feet. This guy dropped like a sack of potatoes performing a stage fall or jenna jameson’s panties.
i expect that kind of dive from alvarez, but thats still an awful dive and shouldve been a card.
His dive wasn’t even in the area, so a really pathetic though all-too-often predictable call in this league.
I am not a San Jose fan, but honestly that is too close to call whether that is a dive or not.
I think it’s entirely possible that a slight touch by a NYRB defender could have brought Alvarez down.
It wasn’t that he couldn’t keep a straight face. He didn’t think it was a penalty either–he just didn’t know what to do about it.
Dive, and a pretty bad one.
e couldn’t even keep a straight face for that close-up in the end of the video.
He beat his men, then fell for no reason, and fell hard.
he definitely dove.
KL, you MUST be a San Jose fan (or an Alvarez family member). He KICKED HIS LEG OUT to give the impression he was fouled.
CLEAR DIVE.
I think your poll is flawed. I saw it as not a dive or a foul, but the body getting ahead of his feet. The call was bad, but a dive is to show intent and I did not see that. Therefore, I did not vote.