Photo by Howard C. Smith/ISIphotos.com
By AVI CREDITOR
Ever since the World Cup, the script for Bob Bradley has been relatively the same.
Experiment with a five-man midfield. Revert to the more customary 4-4-2 formation for the second half. Watch the team's fortunes improve.
After starting with Michael Bradley and Jermaine Jones in holding roles and Maurice Edu in an advanced attacking role, Bob Bradley subbed off Jones at halftime for Juan Agudelo, pairing the New York Red Bull with Jozy Altidore up top.
The result was a more balanced second half in which the Americans maintained more possession, managed an equalizer and fought off Argentina's waves of attacks in a more efficient manner.
"When you look at the way they play, they don't only have four or five guys in the midfield," said Landon Donovan, who put in a bunch of time providing defensive cover throughout the night. "Sometimes they have six or seven. Sometimes a centerback comes into the midfield and plays. Their forwards are rarely up high, so they've got guys running all over the midfield. The idea was to make sure we had enough numbers in there to counter that."
The United States had plenty of numbers in the midfield and in the back, often having as many as eight players in the box, with Donovan acting as a makeshift fullback at times.
It didn't seem to matter.
Lionel Messi, Angel di Maria and Ezequiel Lavezzi had their way in getting forward, picking apart the U.S. defense while the hosts looked to steal and dump as opposed to securing possession.
Michael Bradley, Jones and Edu struggled to maintain shape in the center while feeling out their roles. Despite Jones having relative success and being the catalyst for the most dangerous counterattack the team had in the first half, the coaching staff recognized the need for a second forward to help bail out the defenders who were playing long balls to empty space scores of yards down the field.
"We didn't have enough going forward in the first half," Donovan said. "The change to bring Juan on was very good, and it gave us an opportunity to finally get out of our defensive end when we did have to play some balls forward."
With the four-man midfield, spacing was more even, midfielders and defenders had a better idea of where to position themselves on the field, and a more productive 45 minutes was the end result.
Even so, Bob Bradley didn't seem to hint that a permanent change to a 4-4-2 was in the cards, and he suggest that he's still into seeing the Bradley-Edu-Jones triumvirate through for a bit longer.
"Sometimes we're going to need to go in between both of those (formations)," left back and captain Carlos Bocanegra said. 'We started with a 4-5-1, a version of it anyway, then we went back to little bit more of a 4-4-2 in the second half, and it seemed like we had a few more outlets up front. We need to have the ability to bounce between both of those."
Added Altidore: "I think just for our team in general, whoever is playing up front, I think 4-4-2 we work better, but we've got to try different things, because I think we have a lot of very talented midfielders, so you've got to try and get everybody on the field."
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Which formation would you rather see for the USMNT, 4-4-2 or 4-5-1? Do you think Bradley should stick with one or continue to experiment?
Share your thoughts below.
This!
The 5-man midfield had two basic problems:
–Bradley, Jones and Edu is a trio you play ONLY if you’re seeking to be defensive and deny space, not a 2-way scheme.
–Altidore is still mostly about potential and hasn’t shown he can flourish or be a significant threat at the international level against good teams (yet).
So when we play that scheme against a decent team we’re going to struggle for possession and chances.
I don’t think this game was much of a verdict of the scheme. Argentina tends to embarrass most of the teams it plays, they rarely get much of the ball.
I”m not wedded to a 4-2-3-1 (or some version of a 5-man midfield) scheme. But here’s something for people to think about: for all of 2009 and 2010, the USNT was one that consistently (and against almost all types of competition on the road and at home) gave up early goals. We did it everywhere and we did it regardless of who was starting on the backline. That doesn’t seem to happen with the 4-5-1. I’d hate to think that the answer is for us to start by playing overly defensively. But at least accidently, clogging central midfield does seem to give us a chance to let the game play out rather than giving up a score (often a cheap one) in the first 10-15 minutes and then the game runs away from us.
Common what are you really trying to say?
I agree for the most part, but I don’t mind this so called “experiment” of players. I mean even Ives was gunning for that formation, or even the overly defensive Christmas tree.
I said this on another post, but I would just once, want to see what 4-4-2 formation without bradley would be like. Again it could either shut the haters up, or prove to be the better situation. Do this with all the ‘normal’ starters, for fair comparison.
As of now, Agudelo and Dempsey are my two forwards until Altidore gets his game up.
The supposed strength of our pool is in the middle of midfield, but of the three we saw tonight in that cluster**** of a triangle, none of them looked composed. Bradley is the only one I half-trust, and he’s out of form because he’s riding the cushioned seat at Aston Villa. I actually think our best pairing is Edu as the “defensive minded holding midfielder” and Feilhaber as the link-up. That won’t happen because Coach Dad won’t drop his boy. He actually needs the minutes besides, because he’s not seeing the pitch at AV any time soon.
This comment is almost never contradicted but is actually totally wrong. Ok, not totally, because Landon and Dempsey were very much pinned back by their defensive responsibilities, which did leave Altidore to be the one lone man in our attacking third (or even our attacking half), trying to make magic out of 1 v 3s in the first half (not his specialty).
But these ideas that everyone criticizes the back line for, just “booting it up” and “if they only tried to play a possession game out of the back” are so stupid it’s comical. Do you realize what would have happened in tonight’s game if Gooch, Jay, Carlos, and Spector had tried to play possession out of the back? 4-1 that’s what. Sorry, these guys aren’t masters of the tiki taka possession game. They are what they are. Players who are much better than average at breaking up plays, but who lack the deftness of foot/touch/vision to feel comfortable enough to pick out the one precise correct move/pass with an opposing player(s) closing down on them at top speed.
Their game is built around disruption, and closing off of lanes, to protect the US’s goal. Once that mission has been accomplished, if there is enough time they will look for opportunities in which to consider the most advantageous offensive play, but if there is not enough time they will do that which is number one on their list of responsibilities, and that is… get the ball out of a dangerous position! And you know what, for the best defenders that we have (and make no mistake, they are the best we have) that is absolutely the right move.
Sorry we don’t have four Piques, or Lahms, or Alves’s (whose disruption abilities are suspect anyway) back there. We just don’t. We have a group that defends very well, but doesn’t create from their defensive positions very well. That’s it and that’s all. Pretending like they just should have played a better ball control game out of the back, or that their potential replacements would have, is just pie in the sky wishful thinking.
And sure, for every new prospect that shows a bit of talent going forward (Chandler, Lloyd, to a certain extent Lichaj), or in possession (Ream), it’s tempting to hope/want/wish/ that they are finally the ones who combine all the assets we want in a defender. But the hard truth is, that none of those young guys yet possess the tactical awareness, hard-edged “breaking up plays to get us out of danger” skill that the more veteran options do. Putting them out there for 90 minutes against an Argentina or Spain would result in a few extra forays forward generated by the defenders, but would also result in an even greater upswing in moments where the high quality opposition would burn/out-maneuver the first defender, and then find themselves free of anyone providing adequate cover on the second or third level.
I know this line of thinking will most likely fall on deaf ears. And I also know that there were plenty of moments where the Argentinean playmakers made our best disrupters look out of place or inadeqaute (which to some gives credence to this attacking of the defenders, or calling for their replacements), but it just always annoys me when that leads to people calling for replacements who almost certainly would have fared even worse under these circumstances.
I mean, really, for all those bemoaning Gooch’s performance – do you really think Tim Ream (or Omar Gonzalez, or Gale Agbossumande) would have been stopping Messi’s attacks with ease, or breaking up aerial balls half as well? I would agree that perhaps Ream and Boss have more natural composure on the ball, when they have time for it, but Argentina wasn’t volunteering a lot of time.
So in games like these you have to make the best of the cards you’ve been dealt. If you have been dealt a bunch of defenders who possess strong abilities to make it more difficult for Argentina to waltz into the box and create clear “sitter” type goal scoring chances, but who won’t necessarily be the best catalysts for sparking your counterattack you take those cards and you play them. You don’t throw out those players that are slightly more useful for counterattack football but at the expense of true defensive responsibilities.
I would put Dempsey in the middle he seems to do well with the ball at his feet his problem is he doesn’t look for the ball all the time. Being in the middle he’ll touch the ball more which will allow him to make more plays.
Without Holden Bob had to try 3 Defensive CM. it’s obvious Edu is NOT a playmaker. Not to say he’s not worth a start but he’s no Num 10.
Worth a try but it obviously did not work. at least not with that line up.
Biggest question to that was where was a Torres-like playmaker?
I think 4-5-1 could have worked but the subs matter.
Agudelo was great but 4-5-1 could have been better with a true #10.
have to agree
Thank you…its good to know that some people on these boards actually know what they are talking about
My comments — first, tired of seeing us come out with a complete lack of an attacking tactical gameplan (read CONFIDENT COACHING) in any situation where we’re up against a perceived superior opponent. Yes, Argentina has a far superior history and general national intellect for the game, but I’m sorry, we HAVE THE PLAYERS at this point to beat them.
The second half especially showed that it’s not a talent deficiency — it’s absolutely a matter of tactics, vision, and coaching. Our entire gameplan against high-level opponents repeatedly seems to be to sit back, watch what happens, make adjustments and counterattack and I’m sorry but, this is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Argentina has Messi, but apart from that, the best players I saw on the field tonight (and I was at the game), were Howard, Agudelo, Dempsey, Donovan, Demerit and the 2nd half version of Onyewu. As the game went on, we had more heart and more desire to win than Argentina did, despite the absolutely terrible gameplan that we started out with. It’s becoming more clear that Bradley’s best attribute as a coach is his ability to ADJUST to adversity as a match goes on, but his absolute inability to start properly with the best lineup and the best gameplan is comically obvious and we deserve better.
Dempsey and Howard were absolutely Gods tonight. Anyone who knows anything about sports would recognize that Dempsey should be the heart and soul of this team. His fire and refusal to back down are the kind of things you build great teams around. And I’m sorry, but it’s clear that Agudelo should be unequivocally the #1 striker. His first touch and the intangibles he brought to the attack the second he came on the field were invaluable and he made clear that Jozy’s role should be the secondary option in a 4-4-2. Agudelo’s goal was almost an accident, but he affected so many other attacking situations positively that it almost makes no sense why he didn’t start in the first place.
Despite an absolutely embarrassing first half, I was so proud of the boys in the second — the toughness and, dare I say, balls they brought to the last 45 were inspiring. I’m tired of hearing how we don’t have the players — WE ABSOLUTELY DO — quite honestly, we just don’t have the tactics, the preparation, or the gameplanning that’s necessary to compete at the highest levels of the sport.
We can’t play 4-5-1 when we don’t have defenders that can pass out the back. Just booting the ball upfield will only results in lost possession. This game was similar to the Spain and Brazil games. We played 4-4-2 and with 2 strikers, at least 1 can get the ball and hold it up for Landon or Deuce to make their run and start the attack. If there is just 1 striker, the chance that he will receive the ball and hold it up is much diminish compare to 2.
I don’t blame Bob implementing a 4-5-1, since CM is the strength of our pool. However, it is evident that this team works better with a straight dumbed down 4-4-2 which sometimes leads into the 4-2-2-2 with Dempsey and Donovan pinched inside. At this point its obvious Agudelo can change a game and has speed with tactical ability that we have been missing since Davies, but lets temper our expectation on him a bit. Chandler was really impressive and I think when Cherundolo comes back we should try him on the right side of midfield, move Deuce up to second striker and bring Agudelo off the bench for that second half spark where his pace will mix things up. I like this 4-2-2-1-1 look even though we probably won’t see it.
——-Jozy——-
——Dempsey—–
Donovan—–Chandler
—-Edu—Bradley–
Nice comments. In regard to Altidore, he seems to me that he is progressing and putting the facets of his game together. If he keeps moving forward, the goals will come.
The funny thing is, with out talent at forward now, we have come a long way. It was pretty frustrating to watch long balls to Wynalda not too long ago.
No matter who the forwards are, we need more possession, and need to link up better as well. The NATS are putting together the pieces incrementally. 2014 looks promising in my eyes. The biggest issue I believe will be the transition on the backline. I think the MF and F will be there.
Back to the 4-4-2. And i think that the center midfield pairing has to be Bradley-Edu. I just think they have the most familiarity. If you look back to the World Cup games the best was when they were playing together. I hate to look past Jones’s talents but we should know that the most functional formation for this squad is the 4-4-2 and at this point the Bradley-Edu pairing is the best we have. Also does anyone else get the feeling that Alitdore is always the bridesmaid and never the bride. I mean the guy works his tail off the whole game. Creates chances but just cant seem to be in the right place at the right time. Also Macherano was annoying as hell tonight. Flopping all over the place, you could tell Clint didnt appreciate it.
So true.
Just throwing this out there since Landycakes’s talents aren’t being utilized right if he has to play so much defense….would this work since Agudelo can play this role too:
Altidore
Agudelo–Landycakes–Dempsey
Bradley–Jones
Boca–Ream–Gooch–Chandler
Lots of responsibility on Boca, but I would think it would help with Jozy being isolated up top. Or any combination of that attacking line of 3?
There is an alarming trend with BB that Sunil Gulati has to see too. He starts a squad he thinks is best and then realizes at halftime (or before) that he needs to sub off one or two to go with a very different look. I do give BB credit for at least admitting the tactical mistakes and making the changes but he needs to start the right squad with the right tactics to avoid the first half beat down and the come back nail biters.
It doesn’t matter how young Agudelo is, he needs to start the next friendly. He’s a menace to opposing defenses and has a nose for goal. Chandler was also a big upgrade.
I dont think Jones was having the better game. To me Jones did have the best play of the first half, but i think all 3 CM’s were pretty close the same AT HALF-TIME. With that said, I Agree its amazes how Bob will have a set standard for everybody except his son. jONES IS playing with his club and so is Edu, Michael bradley is not. That was a simple fact that even Ives would back-up in the past for Bradley always playing and going 90. I don’t see how its possible to ignore this after this game. Add in Edu to CB, Holden to RM even though Edu,Holden’s club don’t even try that. Somethings going on.
The problem with playing a 4-5-1 is that the U.S just doesn’t have the 1 touch passing require to make it work well against world class team. Although it might work against the the weaker comp in the concacaf region who might not be be able to hold possession the way Argentina did today.
It’s easy to just put the blame on Altidore cause well that’s what most of the people on this board does. If they watch the game every time he got the ball there was 3 defender on him with no outlet pass what do you expect him to do either try to run at them or hold the ball for 5 second or more and get stripped. There was nothing he could do. People saying Agaudelo held the ball up better were just delusional cause he score a goal. Juan looked lost and uncomfortable on the ball most of the time. I like Agaudelo but I’ll admit Jozy is the best forward we have at the moment.
I want to see a 4-4-2 with Holden and Jones in the midfield, the usual outside, and Jozy and Agudelo up top. Unfortunately, that is six months away, but regardless, i want that lineup. Besides the goal, which was taken nicely, showing some sangfroid to adjust that poke it in, Agudelo is a big kid. He showed good strength several times tonight.
A lot of flopping in the second half.
Holy sh^t! Mascherano is down with arms in air. Leg cramp, muscle strain? Nope, he just wanted to yell at the referee again. He’s learning something there in Barcelona.
Obviously it makes no sense playing with only one striker. End of conversation. The thing that drives me INSANE is that Bob refuses to sit his own son under any circumstances. Jones was having the better game, and yet he gets yanked at halftime? Total BS. His favoritism for his son becomes more obvious with every game.
P.s. Agudelo rules.
I would agree with you if we were playing almost any other team in the world right now. Argentina is on another level. This is the same team that beat Spain after they won the world cup 4-1 (then beat Brazil, then beat Portugal). Not to open up a can of worms here, but they had Messi who could be THE all time great when all is said and done pulling the strings of their attack and they held an amazing team to a 1-1. I’ll take this draw and look back on it happily. Now if we have the same result vs Paraguay on Tuesday I’mma be PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSED… haha.
Edson Buddle!
This shouldn’t be a question anymore.
Generally speaking (aside from Dolo), we don’t have defenders that link up well. Our MF, sans Holden, is not creative nor offensive minded. Beyond that, Altidore, Davies, and Agudelo are talented.
Even when Holden comes back, I want to see two forwards up front. The US has more space when we have to forwards up front as well and it gives Donovan and Dempsey more space to operate.
I don’t even see how this is a question anymore. Holden comes back, either Edu or Bradley should sit and for my money it is Edu.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
You know…I for once am tired of us being happy with a tie. We have so much talent and then we always have to use it to come back from behind. Enough of this…Strong teams take control and from the first minute..it seems that we always have to come from behind and let them set the pace. These are friendlies for crying out loud…let’s for once, set the pace, play to our attacking talent and stop hiding behind the “other teams are better than us” so we are going to play the counter. Let’s attack and go down swinging and adjust accordingly. So much talent and yet we never use it. All I kept thinking was what our German Americans were thinking. The German national team attacks any team not play it safe. They trust their players to make the plays. This was all Bob Bradley’s Fault from the start…bad game plan…lets keep them from scoring in the first half mentality and forget attacking. We have shown that we can play with anyone…now lets play and take control instead of letting others do their thing. Chandler impressed with crosses and was not afraid to take a chance, Jermaine Jones was subbed out not because he did not do well but because Bob needed those who were familiar with the 442 system instead. So much talent and what a waste…Bob…you sir need to take chances. A true US Soccer fan is not happy with a tie when we could have done so much more, we have so much talent that we need to start winning!
We dont have. The creative midfielders to play 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 however you want to call it. 4-4-2 is what work for us.
Aside from the formation change, which did open things up, the defense played with a lot more poise and physicality in the 2nd half. Onyewu in particular was huffing it every time after that awkward giveaway early on. The reason we were defending so much was partly because we gave up possession so cheaply.. we didn’t have time to move the run of play out of our half.
We tried Diskerud in the hole in a recent friendly. It didn’t work. Our midfielders aren’t good enough to play a 4-5-1. We can’t hold possession long enough to build forward.
And that includes if Holden is available.
Just stick w/ the 442.
You’re right. Coming down from post-live game high and got a little carried away with descriptors.
And I agree that the Edu/MB/JJ triangle isn’t working. Three of the same makes for a very crowded midfield.
I’m not sure I see why BOTH Landon and Clint are pinned back at the same time. Part of making a 4-5-1 work, it seems to me, is having more than just the lone forward to outlet to. If the ball’s on the left with Landon, Clint should be cheating up field, ready to drop back if the ball is switched. And vice versa. One of them should be cheating forward to give Altidore a layoff man when the ball does come out.
I thought Altidore did a decent job of getting onto the end of outlet passes, but he didn’t have any success winning the ball and laying it off. When you watch forwards hold up the ball, they don’t usually have the ball for more than a couple of seconds. Receive the ball, shield, layoff. Without Clint, Landon, and Edu giving Altidore an outlet, the whole thing’s not going to work.
We cannot play 4-5-1! We do not have a lone striker who can play that role effectively and no creative attacking mid. We would need someone in the mold of Drogba for striker and a mid like Luka Modric. Unfortunately we do not posses these type of players yet. Until then stick with 4-4-2.
Agreed. We need to try Diskerud in the AM role on Tuesday. He IS a playmaker.
Absolutely agree. LD and CD needed to push up the field more to make the 4-2-3-1 work. No one was making penetrating runs. Once the second forward came on, one would check to the ball and one would make a run to open up space.
You were okay until your last sentence. Agudelo DID hold the ball up and retain possession much better than Jozy.
In fairness, I don’t think Agudelo has demonstrated any more ability than Jozy to play as a lone striker. The US just doesn’t have that. Jozy has shown the ability to turn defenders, and run at them, and score, he just doesn’t do it often as a lone striker.
And he’s the only striker they’ve tried alone up top. I did like Agudelo’s game tonight, he was in the right spots, and he finished. But it’s not like he made a ton of things happen on his own, or held it up that much better than Jozy.
4-4-2 It’s high time our team starts playing with a more offensive mentality. The more we pack the midfield, the less we’re able to stretch the field. Our players are good enough now that we can play with the big boys in a similar way — moving defenders forward into the midfield, dropping forwards back and having them surge forward from the midfield — without needing the fifth dedicated player in the mid.
When we start off with 5 in the middle, we’re starting off inside our shell, trying to repel our opponents attacks — which encourages them to attack because we’re not putting them under pressure. When we play with 4 in the middle and 2 up front, our opponents are less able to put us on the back foot from the beginning of the game, and the field gets stretched forward, giving us more opportunities.
It’s time that our strategic mentality evolve to not think about defense first, but think of all parts of the game right from the beginning.
Argentina made usa defense look like preschoolers. Actually messi did that not the other players. Messi has an amazing possesion of the ball I see why barca it’s hard to beat. Argentina just lacked goal. Only if tevez, higuain or Andres d Alessandro were there. But good job USA. Argentina has quality players all over the world it’s hard to pick the right ones.
Holden? A gifted play maker? Holden is an excellent player, but the guy isn’t a playmaker. He seems to be more of a link up guy. Edu, MB, and JJ all play a similar game. One of those three needs to be benched.
Altidore was not the problem as the lone striker. The problem was that his “support” did not support him at all. Landycakes and Demps were pinned back in their defensive duties, and Edu was lost playing in the hole. Not to mention the backline’s distribution was horrible. If they actually tried to pass it out of the back instead of just booting it, then maybe Altidore would be more effective.
I agree with you that Altidore does not seem to be able to play the lone forward role very well. But did you really just say you wanted to see Conor Casey?
If they US were to play 5 across in midfield, the idea is that they’d have 2 CDMS and 1 CAM, not three defensive midfielders.
I think that the issue we had in the first half was that neither Edu, Bradley, nor Jones is an an attacking midfielder, and they kind of jumbled up in the center. On top of that, Altidore wasn’t doing so well as the only forward.
Good post Ives. Without a great holding forward the 4-5-1 never really works out since our three defensive mids just don’t have the ability to switch fast enough from play d to getting in positions to combo with each other to break up the field. Plus its always tough when you try to combo in the middle and it doesn’t work out sparking a quick counter attack from your own half. I wish we could deploy a different formation but these guys don’t have enough time together to gel enough or Bob is failing at coaching them to pull anything else off but the standard 4-4-2. However, at least when they do a 4-4-2 we do it well for the most part.
I’ve spent the past couple of months praying that Bradley would come to his senses and do a 4-2-3-1. But that was before Holden was injured, when the benefits of having a Donovan/Holden/Dempsey attacking midfield could possibly outweigh Altidore alone up top (or the search for his replacement).
However, after seeing the way the game shifted once we went with 4-4-2, it’s hard for me to argue for five in the midfield–at least as long as Holden, a true attacking midfielder and gifted playmaker, is out. Neither Bradley, Edu, nor Jones was able to take up that role. Michael Bradley and Edu worked very well together in the second half (I realize that basically every commenter on here will hate on this, but I thought that MB had a very good game–he was the destructive defensive midfielder that the team needed, especially in the second half). Plus, Agudelo’s workrate seemed to spark Altidore, and I thought that they played quite well together.
Bradley should try playing ANOTHER forward instead of Altidore. Most of the failure in that formation has to rest with Altidore who does not have the experience or “chops” to play a lone forward. He does play adequatly with another forward, but I think Agudelo would play well with any forward Bradley coud name. Still I would like to see a Buddle or a Connor Casey in Altidores role.
I will admit I thought that based on the number of midfielders and lack of strikers, the 4-2-3-1 should be our best formation. But the USMNT for whatever reason are just not very comfortable using it. Altidore cannot play very well by himself up top, and the midfield seemed confused about whether they were attacking or defending. I think Bob should stick with the 4-4-2 for the Gold Cup at least. The team just seems to play better.
4-4-2…unless you replace Jozy with Juan. Jozy simply doesn’t have the skill to make his own opportunities.
with stuart holden a 4-5-1 without holden 4-4-2