Panama has never won the Concacaf Gold Cup in its history, but will have its first opportunity since 2013 to do on Sunday in Las Vegas.
Thomas Christiansen’s squad outlasted the U.S. men’s national team 5-4 on penalties to clinch a third-ever Gold Cup Finals appearance. Ivan Anderson and Jesus Ferreira traded goals in extra time before Ferreira and Cristian Roldan both missed opportunities in the penalty shootout.
After defeating Canada in penalties on Sunday, the USMNT failed to reach the tournament final for the first time since 2015.
Cade Cowell struck the right post early in the opening minute after being left wide open inside of the Panama box. Ferreira was denied by Orlando Mosquera just a few minutes later as the Americans registered their second shot on goal in quick succession.
Jose Fajardo and Ismael Diaz missed chances for Panama before Thomas Christiansen’s squad thought they had taken the lead.
Edgar Barcenas slid a shot past Matt Turner in the 38th minute, but the in-form forward was whistled offsides after racing ahead of the USMNT backline.
Diaz’s header in the 53rd minute was pushed wide by Turner for a Panama corner as Panama continued its offensive pressure.
The USMNT started to create more chances in the final third with Ferreira missing the left post inside of the box before Brandon Vazquez skied his header attempt over the crossbar. However, Panama came closest to stealing a late victory with the USMNT getting let off the hook in stoppage time.
Diaz slotted home in the box in the 93rd minute after Adalberto Carrasquilla’s pass caught the USMNT backline sleeping. An offsides decision though waived off the go-ahead goal though and forced the teams to extra time.
Panama took advantage of some tired USMNT legs in the 99th minute to claim a 1-0 lead. DeAndre Yedlin and Miles Robinson both kept substitute Anderson onside before the 25-year-old tapped into an empty net after Turner left his line.
It was Anderson’s first-career goal for Panama.
The USMNT hit back though at the end of the first extra time period as Jesus Ferreira continued his impressive tournament. Jordan Morris won the first header off a free kick before Ferreira’s curling right-footed shot nestled into the right corner of Mosquera’s net for a 1-1 scoreline.
Ferreira opened the shootout with a miss in the first round before the next four players combined all successfully scored from the spot. Turner denied Cristian Martinez to give the USMNT a lifeline but Mosquera’s diving save on Roldan gave Panama a chance to seal victory with the final kick.
Carrasquilla’s powerful shot nestled into the left corner of Turner’s net, giving Panama its fourth win of the tournament through five matches.
The USMNT now enters a lengthy break before facing Uzbekistan and Oman in the September FIFA Window as Gregg Berhalter makes his return to the sidelines.
Look not an excuse just reality. The US was short a day rest coming off 120” vs Canada in late afternoon heat, well really intense sun in San Dog. Imho they were never going f to win this tournament with this squad but they almost got to the final. Backup coach and a B/C squad. I’m not losing any sleep over it. Ferreira did what he should have done and Cowell needs to work on finishing. Turner is all good but other than that no revelation from this squad. At least the Women’s World Cup is a week away!
Oh, no big whoop either, but if, say, the interim coach wants the U23 job, or the old/new coach wants to mirror the tactics, or the old/new coach is considering which players should get a bigger chance, still meaningful. One of my concerns about “games matter” is that this not just be a W/L on a history page someplace and the specifics down a memory hole. I mean, how many “games” do i have to see miazga, neal, roldan, etc. Or why was yeuill even called? Didn’t play a minute but we could have used some other options at the end.
Last point, while I am at it, but while blowing off specifically how it went, we often contradictorily act like if you haven’t played a game you fail the experience paradox. Which I guess is how some of that list gets favored over no-cap or long disappeared options. They played and we don’t care how it went. So they “know the system.” To what end? Who cares.
useful guys: turner (duh), ferreira (duh), miles (duh), j. morris (duh), jones, sands. perhaps cowell as agent of chaos. wow, 2-3 new adds, just brilliant. to me it says the scouting and selection were bad when a NT with significant B team usage can’t find much new to like in new players. says you can’t scout or were too lenient in leaving off european Bs.
discards: yeuill yedlin neal zendejas reynolds mihailovic long miazga roldan. the selection was so poor we were far better at winnowing “out” than identifying “in.”
little attention was paid to how the B games this winter and spring went, which predicted this and should have resulted in a shakeup.
it says a lot to me we brought in yeuill then didn’t play him a minute and then were throwing on DMs as AM or wings at the end of an elimination game. the sonora replacement was completely botched.
gaga wasn’t tried and seanjohn didn’t have to prove anything in his cupcake game. waste.
limbo: gaga a. morris vazquez gressel busio tolkin
side point but i see the fundamental issue as arrogance. they are arrogant about system and it took a half to come up with something else when outcoached. maybe as missionaries of their scheme they don’t believe it’s ever wrong. well i have rarely seen it be “right.”
i then think some of the roster misallocations — which have been routine over past windows too — stem from the system arrogance. they do not roster like a team that might have to adjust out of formation.
last, selection arrogance. the regulars did not pull off what i think they expected, and some of the B/C choices reeked of perseveration after B team results earlier this year as well as certain players’ track records in same. i feel like arena has this part well diagnosed. GB and his regime seem to dwell on planet analytics and stats as opposed to watch games and scout. there needs to be more emphasis on how did your last NT game actually go. not some white board dream what you offer. if that happens several guys — particularly defense and perhaps also some offense — give way to trialing someone else.
i mean, for example, roldan (duh), but also neal, who not only was roasted by serbia but also looked shaky in U20. i get someone someplace sees a future in him. i also get i don’t see the future is here yet. historically being of promise got you a game or two.
i joked about panama pre-game because i still think all one has to do is mark their men right — which we blew a few times — and they will be semi-dangerous periodically but not actually score much. and i can’t believe based on history their coach is that incredible. however we got badly outcoached. whole first half. OT. PK choices.
i see part of the problem as we have an exceptional talent pool that has come up but the regime seems to have glommed onto some of their success — in spite of the coaching — as the staff’s success. the system’s success by logical extension. by extension we are smarter than other teams at tactics and selection and can get cute, leave off reyna, etc. i think the team is good and they are not that clever and this is one big example. you take away the talent and they can barely coach their way out of a brown paper bag. took them half time to do a simple formational fix. botched all manner of selection choices including the injury change. have roldan on taking key crosses and PKs. having cleared balogun, weah, pulisic, and co. out of the way, one sees the coaches can’t outthink a 5th place 2022 cycle team.
anyhow, this needs to shift to what tactics and formations work, and what players perform in the shirt. the tactics haven’t worked with any personnel package. the team itself only does well with A team personnel. the coaching is low value added. even nations league seemed almost more an exercise in putting better players on the field and getting the prior tactics out of the way.
We should not be surprised that the USMNT was knockout with this 2023 Gold Cup roster. The sad thing is that this roster wasn’t even about development; it was mostly about promoting MLS players (that cannot cut it at the international level against quality teams or even against a minnow like Panama) and continuing to add the same old MLS lifers that had no business being in this tournament or on the 2022 World Cup. The excuse will be that they were here because of experience and vibes. It was a wasted opportunity where we could have seen young talent, especially some of the talent in Europe that was available.
i call the same thing an “experiment” and people freak out. to me if you call many of the same people who lost to serbia and tied colombia and mexico what were we expecting. against the good teams we played in this tournament we didn’t beat any of them in regulation (Jamaica T, canada T PKW, panama T PKL).
meanwhile i am watching miazga get burned for goals and roldan take our last cross and blow out last PK. that is not even surprising. it’s a predictable waste of time.
i got crap for saying this wasn’t enough to win and was misallocated in terms of how many guys we called to play certain roles. i also don’t think we learn much playing turner almost all the games — even if he plays very well — and if we don’t win it all the cynical portion of the exercise — let’s play some regulars to chase the trophy — isn’t effective either.
Peter P, The European players have to agree to come and historically they do not want to because the timing is terrible for the European season. Mahailovic, Busio, and Reynolds are young European players that agreed to come regatdless but most people would say they were all significantly worse throughout the tournament than Ferriera and Sands who are young MLS players. Which European based players wanted to be part of the team but weren’t invited? I don’t have any inside information so I would like to be enlightened.
Yes, and historically to my knowledge those players have been players that didn’t have to worry about losing their spot. Nobody is going to tell me that Long, Roldan, Yedlin, J. Morris, and Miazga were selected because nobody else was available. BJ or really GB and USSF (behind the scenes) were never going to call anyone else. The hype was that they have experience, good vibes, and leaderships- all BS. These guys have no business on the USMNT and have been getting called in for years. Last time we lost to Panama it was mostly an MLS line-up: Ariola, Zardes, Roldan, Acosta, Bello, Moore, etc. However, for the Gold Cup, I would have been ok with a mix of some more young MLS players like Diego Luna or Brian Gutierrez with some U-23 players and European B players like Booth, Paredes, Gomez, P. Aaronson, Brooks, Joshua Wynder, Haji Wright, Josh Sargent (heard he has been playing and was fine for the Gold Cup), Pefok, etc. Nobody is going to tell me that Long is better than Brooks. As far as this Gold Cup, I liked Neal as I thought he was our best center back. He nneds to go to Europe. Sands did fine at the Gold Cup but there are still better “6” options in my opinion. For him to have any shot at the A team, he needs to go to Europe. It was fine to give him a look, though. Ferreira had a good tournament primary scoring hat tricks against Caribbean Minnows. I don’t think Ferreira is A team quality; he proved that during qualifying and in the Holland game. If Ferreira goes to Europe, I hope he has success. I am sure GB will put him on the A team, though. Mahailovic did not really help himself. Busio and Reynolds are still very young.
Pete P, I don’t watch MLS so I can’t tell you if there are players better in the MLS than the ones you mentioned but just because you think a player sucks doesn’t mean there are any better choices in MLS. I watched every U20 WC game and I don’t think there is a single player, including Diego Luna, on that roster that is ever going to be a good enough player to even compete for a roster spot when the Eoropean based players are available. The Uruagay U20s that won the WC wouldn’t even have been competitive against the Panama team that just beat the US. You keep naming European based players as the guys who should have been there instead. If Paxton Aaronson chose to go to the Gold Cup, the worst confederation tournament on the whole planet, over preseason with Frankfurt, he wouldn’t even dress for a single game the whole season. Do you really think he or any of those other players you named would risk that and do you even think they should? There is 0 chance John Brooks would have been willing to play at the Gold Cup. The few European based players that showed up took a risk because of their specific situations but they are in the minority. Busio, for example, is a bench player on a 2nd division italian Team that fights relegation with no interest. His club situation can’t get any worse so he likely saw the GC as opportunity to show case his talent to improve his club situation by garnering some interest. For any European based player to commit to the GC, they have to think the potential benefit outweighs the risk and there are very few that would come to that conclusion.
What I am saying it that I have no problem with bring these young guys from MLS or Europe instead of the MLS lifers (I am talking about the MLS lifers mostly) because at least you get something out of it by evaluating these young guys. We were not going to win this tournament with the lifers because they are not international level anymore- not even for a Z- team and there are way better MLS and European players than these lifers now. By brining young blood in, it would be purely to evaluate and get something out this tournament-winning the GC would just be icing on the cake. I am not saying that we bring the whole U-20 side, but I would not be opposed to only bringing a U-23 because we would at least get something out of it and the U-23 would be getting more experience before the Olympics. This GC was a waste because we basically learned nothing. If the objective was to try to win the GC, knowing that the first teamers needed a break, then you still dump the MLS lifers, because they should not even be in the picture anymore and call up some B European guys that are or have been a part of the A squad and are trying to get back in like Brooks. There is no way that Brooks would have declined. In the Panama game, Panama just stopped pressing because they figured out that the US couldn’t even pass out of the back. With Neal out, passing out of the back was zero. I guess, Neal was a positive because he was the only one that could pass out of the back. I would like to see Sands once more against a quality side to see if he can cut it. He was at Rangers and struggled there. He needs to go back to Europe somewhere in my opinion; maybe Belgium or the champions. I will applaud Ferreira because he’s fanatic against small Caribbean sides.
There are no excuses or reason for this bad of a performance. None. This was just pathetic. There is absolutely no “if”, “ands” or “buts” about it. It’s one thing if we played good, coordinated attacking /defending soccer but then just happen to be unlucky……but it’s another thing looking as if you are playing pick-up soccer and you’re on a bad team. If USSF doesn’t start looking for coaches / assistant coaches that:
1. Innovative tactics
2. Focus on possession-based football and player technical ability
3. Have the ability to motivate and inspire his players
4. Relentless in the pursuit of perfection
5. Management and proper decisions in real time
6. Capable of adapting during the game or switching ineffective formations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_CONCACAF_Gold_Cup_squads#:~:text=United%20States%20%20%20%20No.%20%20,%20%2023%20%2017%20more%20rows%20
Look at the players on these Gold Cup teams (especially Canada, Panama and Mexico). I DONT CARE IF THEY HAVE BEEN PLAYING TOGETHER LONGER OR NOT, Professional soccer players are exactly that……Professional Soccer players. How are those coaches able to get that much out of so little quality???? What are they doing that USSoccer is not? They have some players even playing in Costa Rican, USL, English tier 2 and Saudia leagues??? The Panama team’s average age might be in the 30’s (or close to it). I’m sick and tired of people claiming we don’t have the type of player pool to excel in these regional tournaments. If USSoccer removed all are big name starters (not sub players) these are players that can represent the USMNT
Defenders:
Cameron Carter-Vickers (Celtic / Scottish Premiership), John Anthony Brooks (Bundesliga / Hoffenheim), Justin Che (Bundesliga / Hoffenheim), Matthew Olosunde (Championship / Preston North End), Erik Palmer-Brown (Troyes / Ligue 1), Kik Pierie (Excelsior Rotterdam / Ajax / Eredivisie), Auston Trusty (Arsenal / Birmingham City / EFL Championship), Sam Vines (Royal Antwerp / Pro League (Belgium)), Timothy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt / Bundesliga), Brooks Lennon (Atlanta/MLS)
Midfielders:
Duane Holmes (Preston End/EFL), Darlington Nagbe (Columbus Crew), Luca de la Torre (Celta Vigo / La Liga), Brenden Aaronson (Leeds United / English Premier League), Taylor Booth (FC Utrecht / Eredivisie), Julian Green (Greuther Furth / 2. Bundesliga), Paul Arriola (Dallas/MLS), Caden Clark (RB Leipzig / Bundesliga), Richard Ledezma (PSV / Eredivisie), Kevin Paredes (Wolfsburg / Bundesliga), Johnny Cardoso (Internacional / Serie A Brazil), Eryk Williamson (Portland/MLS), Richard Ledezma (NYCFC/MLS), Keaton Parks (NYCFC/MLS)
Forwards:
Haji Wright (Antalyaspor / Super Lig), Jordan Pefok (Union Berlin / Bundesliga), Malik Tillman (Rangers FC / Scottish Premiership), Josh Sargent (Norwich City / EFL Championship), Daryl Dike (West Bromwich Albion / EFL Championship), Konrad de la Fuente (Olympique Marseille / Ligue 1), Lynden Gooch (Sunderland / EFL Championship), Malick Sanogo (Union Berlin / Bundesliga U19), Nicholas Gioacchini (St. Louis/MLS),
There are a lot of players either injured or coming off injuries but still we have enough quality to get the job done with the right system. If you are so into the 4-3-3 system or trying to RIGIDLY stick to a special system, then why not incorporate the subs of the A-Team to get starting competitive minutes ON THE FIELD with the B-Team to develop better comradery??? Compare this list to the players of Countries currently doing well in this 2023 Gold Cup. ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. There is absolutely no excuse. If Thomas Christiansen or John Herdman had this list of players, THE USMNT WOULD NEVER HAVE A CHANCE WIN A COMPETITION WITHOUT OUR HEAVY HITTERS.
This is rough to take it in…..
“How are those coaches able to get that much out of so little quality???? What are they doing that USSoccer is not?”
Because they are better than our coaches.
It takes more than good to great players and lots of them. I’m tired of those of you who bitch about the relentless criticism of Gregg and his gang.
It’s relentless because it is deserved. They keep stepping on their dicks.
“It’s one thing if we played good, coordinated attacking /defending soccer but then just happen to be unlucky….”
Be honest, other than BJ’s Nations League performance, when was the last time you could truly say that about Gregg’s team since he took over?
Things will get better because our players will get better but when the teams are even or they are better , man for man, than us are you 100% confident that Gregg will be the difference in us getting a positive result?
We just have to consistently avoid better teams.
Apologists. SBI is full of apologists.
I’m sorry.
Bizzy, your list is mostly European based players. They aren’t coming. It is a bad tournament with bad teams in their off season during the short break they get to try to rest and recover from the prior season and if the team goes to the knockout rounds they miss the beginning of their club team preseason which can completely mess up their entire season. The more US players that get European contracts means the smaller the pool of realistic players for the Gold Cup and thw worse the tram the US fields will be. The Panama players were better than the US players on the whole. There were three of ten field players in the first half that essentially were incapable of passing the ball to a teammate as opposed to the other team and they weren’t the old retreads everyone complains about; they were people that a lot of people were clamoring about.
Apart perhaps from Sands (and Turner of course) who has shown his versatility and hard-work no nonsense attitude could add value to our A team, there is not one single player from this bunch that I believe should be anywhere near our first choice team right now.
The games vs Trinindad and St Kitts were irrelevant bc vs extremely weak opposition. The lessons were in the Jamaica, Canada, and Panama games, none of which we were able to win in regulation by the way.
Ferreira? Nope he’s not at the level.
Mihalovic? Quite frankly an average to bad player physically lightweight and technically mediocre he brings nothing.
M. Robinson? Probably one of our worst players all tourney with Reynolds.
Busio? At his place on the bench on a bad Seria B team. Still has a lot to learn.
Miazga? He basically costs you a goal a game
I could go on and on….
Just hope this pathetic Gold Cup performance will allow the UsMNt to move on from certain players and explore new options to potentially strengthen our best group.
Watching this GC squad was giving me flashbacks of watching the 2018 cycle.
Please no more Christian Roldan. He has proven time and time again he is useless dead weight. He can’t even score on a minnow Concacaf team. 😡
He has about 33 caps, and he has never scored once.
Stop if bro, he’s our ace in the hole!
The roster just lacked offensive playmaker types, we couldn’t create enough chances against the better teams. Also lacked speed to get in behind. Ferreira stood out but he needs other playmakers around him to be most effective. It was telling that late in the game when we needed an offensive spark, there was literally no one to turn to. Panama deserves some credit, I dont care where their players play for club, they had stretches where they looked good enough to win the tournament. And have to be proud of the attitude and fightback of our guys, to come back and score after having gone down in extra time, twice in a row, that shows alot of guts and character, they deserve alot of credit for that.
i agreed and argued this at the outset looking at the roster of 4 DM 2 AM — 1 AM of which got hurt and was replaced by a DM. i think that spoke to their fundamental belief in their little 433. panama then abused the 433 and what then. i still think as i say above they overrate the formation and underrate the talent’s contribution. once they got the formation unscrewed it was an even game. the overall result suggests we aren’t atop the money tree of tactics.
the money tree of tactics ideas then trickle down to the roster. we seemed to think we’d do the running around and pressing of the first 15′ all night. so the mids can all be hustle defenders and the forwards will handle the offense when we win the ball on the press. the B forwards didn’t finish and due to the formation mismatch the B mids got run in the ground.
but then we should already know from wales that the pressing crap isn’t a gamelong strategy. i mean, why are the backs pushed way up high in OT? to me no sane team has slow miazga pushed up to the half line.
anyhow, i think far too much of this is run like our formation and tactics are superior, and the other teams will have to adjust and not us. or as though our tactics work. to me we have weak offense in good games and yet not an airtight defense. the lack of AM play as you underline, weakens central offense. we then take odd risks in a vulnerable 433 formation for a team whose DM choices seem to emphasize defense. it’s internally contradictory. but then the thought-leader and soon-re-coach of this is a center back who is interested in pep’s ideas, which is probably bound for some contradictions. pep himself has tweaked some of his approach, more willing to have a dribbling 10 as opposed to pure tiki taka, shifting wingbacks in for defensive soundness as opposed to pushing them high like ajax or barca searching for x% more offense. both those being teams that usually exit UCL in some high scoring debacle.
but anyhow, i’d like to see us commit 5-6 guys back but then drop the press and empower 4-5 guys to attack and create chances and put the fear of god in teams. in which case you get your 1-2 10 types as opposed to watching busio and roldan try to create. i know people rate musah and mckennie well but they aren’t 10s. they are 6s or 8s. when is the last time musah created a goal? he’s really out there to stop teams. and so we look like a team trying to create with 8s. which trickles down to the B team even worse. at which point your complaint arises.
So who will be on Berhalters first roster in the fall?
GK: Turner, Sean John, Celentano
D: Dest, Scally, M. Robinson, Richards, Trusty, CCV, Jedi, Jones
M: McKennie, Musah, Gio, Adams, De La Torre, Cardoso
A: B. Aaronson, Pulisic, Weah, Balo, Pepi, Booth
Zimmerman will likely be on the roster somewhere unless we only bring 3 CB’s. Which could happen…because I’d also put James Sands a mile ahead of Cardoso right now. We’ve got plenty of 8’s and 10’s, what we lack are 6’s, and Cardoso did not have nearly a good enough tournament to justify fall selection, IMHO.
Sands may have moved the needle the most of any of the guys this tournament. He really shone as a 6, and he can also play CB. That allows you to bring one less CB (especially since the fourth CB rarely plays in a two-game window anyway) and add an additional attacking player…and those you often can definitely use based on situation.
If we bring an extra attacker it’ll be Jesus or Josh Sargent, IMHO. Jesus made a powerful case for himself too that he belongs with the top group, and Sargent was having a pretty durn good World Cup until he took a knock against England.
Would love to be a fly on the wall, on that Gio and Berhalther convo. Gio had an excellent window last time he was called up for Nation’s League and I want him starting over Tyler Adams.
LOL. And yup. That will likely be an…uncomfortable conversation.
Gio has said before that the manager just tells him what he wants and he’ll go out and try to do it.
Pretty short discussion.
Gio has bigger fish to fry.
All 5 games were an accurate representation of the players on the roster.
Going forward from this roster
First 11 quality: Turner
Top 23: Miles (still looks rusty)
If a couple of the 23 are out: Ferreira, Sands, Jones, Johnson (I guess)
Need a good club season to get into top 30: Mihailovic, Vazquez
See ya at the Olympics cause you’re not at this level yet: Busio, Neal, Reynolds, Tolkin, Cowell, Gaga
See you in January: Gressell, JMorris (but probably both should go in the next category)
Please just save us all and retire from International play: Miazga, Roldan,Yedlin, Long
Stock really dropped: Sonora, AMorris (hope everything is ok), Zendajas
That one guy you call when someone drops from your foursome 30 minutes before your tee time: Yueill
We should have taken a few more of the guys from NL roster I.e. Trusty, Booth, Cardoso and I even think Balogun, Dest, and Reyna should have been brought in for this tournament. Reyna barely got on the field for Dortmund, Balogun is the shiny new guy, and Dest hadn’t played all second half of the season for Milan. Would have been a good tournament to judge where Trusty, Booth, and Cardoso are at in the pecking order. But alas it was treated as a second rate tournament by US soccer and some of those guys really shouldn’t have been on the team….. both Morris and Roldan were recently coming back from injuries, Long shouldn’t really be considered much anymore, Yedlin is past it. I totally understand wanting to see more of Zendejas, but I have said from the beginning he isn’t an international winger. He would be much better as an attacking 8.
But in the end we really don’t have the depth of talent or better yet the depth of talent we do have wasn’t considered for this second rate tournament in US soccers eyes.
2tone,
“Trusty, Booth, Cardoso and I even think Balogun, Dest, and Reyna.”
These guys are not robots and the USMNT does not pay their bills.
Trusty is still sorting our his club situation
Don’t know about Booth
Jonny also sorting out his club situation
Flo at the Gold Cup risks injury which is a lousy thing if you’re waiting to see if Chelsea or some other team is going to drop 50 million on you.
Dest has had a terrible year and needs a break. He’s a head case and needs to get it back on straight. His next port of call could be the most important decision of his career so far. He doesn’t need to be out there risking injury;. everyone knows what his potential is.
Gio looked like he strained his Achilles in the NL and it would have been a miracle and a pretty stupid move on his part had he had played in the Gold Cup. That’s all this injury prone diva shitbag needs, another debilitating injury..
“But in the end we really don’t have the depth of talent or better yet the depth of talent we do have wasn’t considered for this second rate tournament in US soccers eyes.”
It is not just US soccer that considers the Gold Cup second rate. Mexico often sends B and C teams depending on what else is going on . Canada certainly did not send it’s A squad.
The Euros and Copa America are always going to be the top of the line for Regional tournaments because of the depth those regions. You don’t generally see them sending B teams to the final stages like we do.
It’s like the Scottish Premiership.
Until we develop more consistent powerhouses beyond the US and Mexico ( sorry Canada) so that we can see serious depth at this stage, then the Gold Cup will continue to be second or even third rate.
The development of Panama, Canada and Jamaica is encouraging but let’s see if it lasts
Mostly agree, though Reynolds and Djorde flashed in earlier games and then faded against Canada and Panama because their legs just weren’t there…because they’re on the European schedule they were in offseason form and it showed. I think they’re both in our top 30 and right on the edge of the main squad.
Again, see my thoughts on the James Sands thread about switching us to the 5-3-2, which bumps both Sands and Ferreira into our best 23.
Miles disappointed me some. Hopefully that was indeed rust but his distribution out of the back was really bad and he was distinctly shaky at times.
I do think Callaghan should be the Olympic coach.
Rather have Mikey Varas, although I thought both struggled at navigating rotation during their tournaments. Of course Mikey had fewer roster slots available.
Varas had almost 9 months to find a legit #9 and integrate him into the u20’s. Damian Downs never really hit a call, Malick Sanogo was barely used when called into a camp, and he had the opportunity to call up Keyrol Figueroa to the u20 WC kind of like Ramos did with Sargent, but he ultimately decided to go with false 9’s. My point is that I think Varas needs to grow a bit more as a coach and be solely the U20 head coach during this cycle and be BJ’s assistant at the Olympics. BJ has a bit more substance to his coaching resume. Personally IMO Callaghan pushed the right buttons for the most part while in charge.
2Tone,
“Varas had almost 9 months to find a legit #9 and integrate him into the u20’s.”
That’s unfair. 9 months??? What if there is not a legit #9 in the system for the U-20’s?
They are not a club. You can’t buy a #9 or get one on loan. You have what you have.
The USMNT had longer than that and still didn’t find a legit #9. They had to import Flo.
There were players. Sanogo was scoring goals for Union Berlins u19’s. Damion Downs won the u19 DFB Pokal for Cologne May 3rd with a brace. There were options. Just saying I think Varas needs a bit more time as a head coach with the u20’s. He has a lot of good ideas, and he looks to be a good coach. I think Callaghan will be perfect for the Olympic team.
2: you’re assuming those players are better. Sanogo was in camps you really think Mikey was like I’ve got this CF whose better than these guys but I’m going to leave him home? Sanogo last played Mar 25 coming off at half and never played another minute in their last 5 matches. I’m guessing he was injured since he’d played every game before that for Union’s U19s.
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As for Figueroa he’s 16, a 16 yr old CF going against 20 yr olds is a big difference. Sargent was almost a full year older when he went to WC. Figueroa didn’t even start in the group stage for the U17s.
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Downs was injured for most of the year last year and not available for most of the camps. He was also playing for Koln U19s in some sort of Junior Bundesliga competition and may not have even been available (Wes, Haji, and Nick Tatigue were all withheld in 2017 for that).
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U17 and U19 Bundesliga stats can be deceptive they play regionally so you might be a Bundesliga academy playing some 3rd or 4th division academy. Most of Sanogo’s goals came against non 1st division clubs. Downs were a little better but he missed so much of the season he didn’t face Dortmund, Leverkusen, or Mochengladbach.
BJ’s decision to high press in the first extra time directly led to the Panama goal. You could her him yelling at the players. We hadn’t been in full high press mode since mid first half. I don’t know that we score if Panama doesn’t score first but it was an odd decision by Bj, especially given the fitness level at that point in the match.
didn’t understand it. they got their legs run off and out formationed early. maybe the idea was having weathered the storm they could revert back. this is where i respond to you that the coaching tigers have not really changed their stripes and will want to default back whenever they can. they think they are more clever than they are. how many times do we have to get burned trying to press and press before we get it.
more pointedly, some awareness of personnel might be useful. miazga is slow as molasses.
bottom line teams are usually conservative and playing for a single goal in OT, or to simply make the kicks and decide it there. i thought it was unnecessary riverboat gambling.
at some point they need to wake up that their supposedly “deep” ideas of either keepaway or pressing should be isolated short term switches we can flip and shouldn’t be 45′ or 90′ full tactics. yes, with 15′ left teams with a lead will play keepaway. yes, teams that either identify backline weakness or need to get back in a game, may suddenly push upfield and chase a team for a period of time.
but wales, holland, etc., we aren’t that clever, this doesn’t work for extended periods, and if other teams make it work in club ball, it’s because they have insane payrolls and checkbooks at work. yes, city can do it. city also could probably do it in a list of other formations as they simply out-talent 90% of that league. ditto spain’s golden generation. most teams with talent within ordinary bounds, including especially B teams, cannot either pass around for 90′ or run themselves around for 90′ like chickens.
i think we thought we’d trap them off the field in 30′ and we clearly had another thing coming. and part of that you lot are missing is if you plan on winning games that way you need far more clinical of forwards. and we haven’t figured out it’s hard to get a clinical attacker who also chases like a madman for pressing purposes.
personally i’d like to see us drop back and swarm their mids instead of chase way high upfield like risky U14s. i thought the B team out there showed how clownish our tactics look without the same level talent pushing it.
JR: i mean when my dynamo were being scorched last night by MN, horrible play fwiw, but they at least knew they were down a goal or two and were pushed up trying to get back to a result. this, we were even, PKs awaited, no need to take the risk. the risk then resulted in us spending energy to come back just to get to kicks.
based on the two tournaments callaghan was flattered by A team talent, took a game to figure out how to use them right, and struggled to coach the Bs right. olympic is more like B ball.
nope.
I thought he actually made good changes at halftime and the US had more of the ball and more chances in the second half. I even thought with limited roster options due to injuries and fatigue he did a good job with subs at appropriate times. I still have no idea why he tried to go back to pressing in ET when we were exhausted and it hadn’t been effective in the 1st half when they just passed thru us like a hot knife thru butter. Panama might be the best team in Concacaf outside the final third they can’t score if your slightly organized, we chose to disorganize ourselves while exhausted and with most our slowest players on.
JR: i was going to go into some belabored analysis but the reality is in these B games, TnT and st. kitts aside, all year, the best we could do is tie games. L-serbia. LPK-panama. T-colombia, mexico, jamaica. PKW-canada. that’s mostly ties. and yes some of those were hudson. but in every single one of these GC ties i felt like we were chasing the match. same type results, too many of the same players even. and panama last night reminded of holland where it’s like we got badly outcoached when it mattered. these weren’t controlled games where the system works but crap happens. this was out of control and we were lucky to get anything. any of these three games.
at a loss how that screams to people, oh, put this guy in charge of something else.
and i get people will say, but he coached also, but i saw little in common. which means without those players he can’t make them play the same way. you even argue something to that effect in defense of how the jamaica game went. “not his fault they can’t play like reyna or weah.” except, that kind of says it’s the talent and not him. he’s gonna get some slapped together tournament roster like we often end up with at such events. he will not get a bunch of stars.
this is one reason i tend to see great coaches as the ones who do something at aberdeen (or a down year at ManU) or porto before moving on. any idiot can roll the ball out for bayern and be top handful or even win. if you want to coach U23s how did the B team work go? what bunch of scrubs did you coach to a title anyway.
The game plan was just maddening! Any one of us armchair coaches could have lead this team to the semis.
1- we didn’t have the players with the skill set to run a 4-3-3
2-by starting cowell, Jesus, and Vazquez we had nothing coming off the bench but garbage.
3- the team collectively was a giant turn over macine
Could go on and on but really I guess I’m just happy we didn’t lose to Mexico. Our c team is just no fun to watch.
It’s the turnovers that drive me crazy. Especially in the first half when Panama won just about every contested ball. It’s kind of like rebounding in basketball–positive results usually come from greater effort than the opponent puts out. They out fought us. One thing I suspect most people will disagree with me on is Cowell. A striker needs to score to be valuable, but I thought Cowel actually had a good game because he had some very good passes and good interchange with other players around the box.
It was fun to watch them against Trinidad and St. Kitts. I enjoyed watching them beat Canada and even tie Jamaica. I would have enjoyed yesterday’s game if they won. It sucks to have to spend 2 hours figuring out whether or not I am having fun, though.
Cowell is the post king at this point. He has hit the post multiple times for the USMNT and at the u20 WC.
Losing always sucks, but it also is a great learning tool.
Looks like we will play Jamaica in the third place game.
The biggest challenge for Greg in this cycle is coming up with another formation the boys can play well in and not adherently sticking to a 4-3-3. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing a 4-3-2-1 and potentially a 3-5-2.
Anyways hard fought loss today. Some excitement for certain players who will hopefully make that jump from raw and exciting to bonafide consistent exciting player I.e. Cowell, Reynolds, Neal, Jones(I get he is 26).
No 3rd place match and apparently has only been played once since 2005 (which was 2015 when we lost it).
Yeah just saw that. Oh well. Back to club soccer.
thing is at a point on cowell i have to just take for granted his shooting is off and it’s post or wide 95% of the time. saw it U20. saw it this spring NT. little too consistent to be bad luck.
he is young and could work on it. dempsey magically became a sniper at FFC. i haven’t seen growth that way in cowell at SJ. i don’t think it has to be “serious europe” but he needs a new setting where someone works on this and either makes it a strength or at least teaches him some short cuts to put away some of these.
as it stands you have to take for granted he is what he is and use him as like an agent of chaos. either that or long term i think he’s a wing mid or fullback.
NL Final Four: US, Canada, Mexico, Panama. Hmm, Mexico and Panama brought the same squad to both and look to be headed to the final. Also, 4 of the 5 top teams from qualifying. Costa Rica didn’t bring best squad either. If USSF wants to win the GC it needs to bring a better roster, if it just wants to use it for development then we’ll have tournaments like this one. Going forward the NL shouldn’t be in the summer, but the late June start is a problem for European players across the region.
This is the last time the NL is in the same year as the Gold Cup. COVID messed with the last one and WC messed with this current one. The next NL Final is in the spring of 2024. Meaning 2025 Gold Cup will have A squads.
Probably leading into WC will be near full rosters but leagues will likely start early to end in early May ahead of WC so you never know.
As I pointed out at the beginning, there were a number of decent attackers we could have brought from Europe. Sargent, Pefok, Wright, immediately come to mind. McKenzie, E Palmer-Brown, Reggie Cannon could have been brought in to provide defensive help. This is just immediately off the top of my head and I’m probably forgetting a number of guys. So, in short, winning this tournament didn’t seem to have been a high priority, but seen more as a chance to evaluate some real marginal players.
wow…just wow. This is the results you get when you decide to be a one trick pony and force a particular formation that you don’t have the personnel for. This game was terrible. No rhythm, no quickness to the ball, no tactical attack, no effective strategy, no ADAPTABILITY……an absolutely terrible performance by the USMNT. We had less possession, less shots on goal, less passing accuracy than Panama……than fielded these players
Luis Mejía (aged 32) Unión Española
Harold Cummings (aged 31) Monagas
Fidel Escobar (aged 28) Saprissa
Roderick Miller (aged 31) Turan Tovuz
Cristian Martínez (aged 26) Najran
Jovani Welch (aged 23) Académico de Viseu
Adalberto Carrasquilla (aged 24) Houston Dynamo FC
Azarías Londoño (aged 22) Comunicaciones
Yoel Bárcenas (aged 29) Mazatlán
Ismael Díaz (aged 26) Universidad Católica
César Samudio (aged 29) Marathón
Freddy Góndola (aged 27) Alajuelense
Eduardo Anderson (aged 22) San Carlos
Eric Davis (aged 32) DAC Dunajská Streda
Andrés Andrade (aged 24) Arminia Bielefeld
José Fajardo (aged 29) Cusco
Cecilio Waterman (aged 32) Cobresal
Alberto Quintero (aged 35) Cienciano
Aníbal Godoy (aged 33) Nashville SC
César Yanis (aged 27) Potros del Este
Orlando Mosquera (aged 28) Monagas
Omar Valencia (aged 19) New York Red Bulls II
Iván Anderson (aged 25) Monagas
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With all the player we have in the US Player pool (first team subs included) we should have put on a far better, stronger and more athletic team than this. It seem like in order to stick to the 4-3-3 we just threw something up and hope it sticked. Unbelievably poor performance. We deserved to be knocked out…..
We can look at the bright side- at least Mexico didn’t beat us in the final. México’s A team would have beat this team in the final. Our super power has historically been that we are good at set pieces and use that to pull off underdog victories. But recent versions of the USMNT sucks at set pieces so Mexico would have been the favorites.
As far as our roster construction this tournament, this is close to the best team we could have brought in considering the European player limitations and MLS player injuries. Our pool has expanded but isn’t as deep as people make it out to be.
All those guys have played a ton of matches together and had the same manager the last 3 years. For the most part this has been their group for the last 5 years and about half of them for the last 7 or 8. They know what they want to do and we’re able to make adjustments in the 2nd half when the US was on the front foot.
let’s be real, this was the same panama coach we have drubbed at home and in europe 2-3 times — including with a B team during the pandemic. if you recall they beat us once last cycle, 1-0, at home, when the game felt a lot like yesterday. lot of ineffective pressing, hustle players blowing their chances, defense cratering.
fwiw i also remember in the 6-2 pandemic game we owned them and they got 2 goals off miazga. that in and of itself it’s like do we watch old tape.
again, the formula on panama is have athletic enough a defense to stay goal side, pump balls in the box, and take them clinically or get fouled.
i felt like they’d wised up a little on discipline and were getting us called for normal 50/50 plays where we might get calls or PKs in previous games. i also felt like they didn’t run straight in the tactical buzzsaw, they tweaked it. so you’re like they had this coaching experience, and the pretense is we were green, but i thought it was less that than we were predictable as usual. so you could riff off of how everyone knows we will show up. this is one problem i have with missionary coaching. ok, you tried your one idea. it didn’t work. they maybe even saw us coming from the parking lot. now what. that is real coaching.
i also didn’t feel like we did something incredibly sophisticated. we just matched the 4 mids on defense. that change shouldn’t take 45′. they then started tree-ing out of that to other things and got chances again. we also then did stupid things like high block and get burned in OT.
i think you’re confusing ‘he did adjust with brief effect” with “on the balance he got flat outcoached.” and i don’t think that’s because we were green, i think it’s because we are obvious. and we get away with it due to talent, when we can get away with it. (we still aren’t beating anyone any good outside the region.)
So often we would slowly advance the ball and nobody had any idea what to do after we got a little past the mid line. No imagination, no creativity, no ideas on how or where to attack. I think I’ve seen a high school team do better in those facets of the game.
Most of the guys play in MLS where that creative work is done by South American players. Mihailovic had two stellar years under Nancy in Montreal but struggled in this setup against the organized defenses of Canada and Panama.
if it reminds you of HS it might be because i think we have more of a theory of “possession” than a plan for “goals.” one thing i noticed on mediocre-to-bad select/HS/college coaches is they will (a) teach where the early passes will go — essentially how will we possess — and then (b) hand the offense over to shooting drills or half court work. but what is the actual plan for the offense to score?
i know people want to see the current ideas as progress, and we do play the ball on the ground more. but the teams c. 2000-2010 had more of a concept how to score. it might be crude, but they had an actual plan. speedy wide counters with landon finishing, crosses to mcbride. i see it as 90s era regression to just be whacking hopeful balls in the box. and i see a lot of the buildup patterns as more show-off possession than designed to get people open for goals.
i mean, ask yourself, what was the plan to get ferreira and vazquez on the ball? exactly. and you could say that for years, dating back to maybe 2017 and pulisic/dempsey. 2017 team sucked but they at least had an idea, feed dempsey on the spot, turn, shoot for the corners. and the thing people don’t realize is that 2017 team scored more than the current version does. it just had no defense……