The U.S. men’s national team started strong in Sunday’s CONCACAF Gold Cup Final vs. Mexico, but eventually saw things come crashing down in Houston.
Mexico overcame an early deficit to defeat the USMNT 2-1 at NRG Stadium, capturing a second-consecutive Gold Cup title. Goals from Raul Jimenez and Edson Alvarez helped El Tri rally to erase Chris Richards’ opening tally for the Americans.
It marked the USMNT’s first competitive loss since losing in the third place match of the CONCACAF Nations League last March.
Mauricio Pochettino’s squad took advantage of an early set-piece for the opening goal of the match. Sebastian Berhalter’s dangerous cross was headed off of the crossbar and in by centerback Chris Richards after only four minutes.
It was Richards’ second goal of the tournament and Berhalter’s second assist as Mexico conceded their first goal since its group stage opener.
Mexico upped the pressure as the first half went on and found its equalizer in the 27th minute through Raul Jimenez. Marcel Ruiz’s through ball pass cut between Alex Freeman and Tim Ream, allowing Jimenez to roof a one-time shot past Matt Freese.
The shot took a slight deflection off of Ream’s right leg.
It certainly was an emotional moment for Jimenez, who celebrated the goal by reenacting former teammate Diogo Jota’s playstation celebration. Jota, 28, tragically passed away last week after being involved in a car crash with his brother Andre Silva in Spain.
Freeman came close to giving the USMNT a halftime lead but Luis Malagon stood tall to deny the Orlando City right back’s header. Berhalter’s over-the-top ball allowed Freeman to race onto it, however, Malagon had other ideas to keep the score level.
As both teams continued to press for a winner in the second half, it was Mexico who took advantage of its continued possession. A free kick from the left wing with 12 minutes remaining was flicked ahead by Johan Vásquez allowing Edson Alvarez to finish off the play for a 2-1 El Tri lead.
The goal was originally waived off for offsides, but VAR overturned the decision after Freeman was guilty of keeping Alvarez onside. It marked El Tri’s fifth set-piece goal of the Gold Cup.
The USMNT tried to find an equalizer late in the match, but were unable to break down the El Tri backline for a second time.
Mexico claimed its 10th Gold Cup of its history, moving three ahead of the USMNT on the all-time winners list.
The USMNT will now have a two-month break before returning to friendly play in September against South Korea and Japan.
just curious if the history airbrushers remember that c. 2021 we won both the tournaments we just finished 2nd and 4th in, including with the B team against mexico in a final. this is eroding backwards. if one tosses out 2021 as a covid quirk — because we then finished 3rd in WCQ — then this is a second tier concacaf squad surrounded by smug fans saying don’t change a thing. “no, don’t you dare bring that 19 year old dortmund wunderkind near my 4th place nations league scrub side.”
the default tactics suck. the call sheets are goofy in at least some significant portion. we adjust poorly in second halves. we save subs too late. we line up odd guys for PKs. even for the pessimists who simply think it’s overrated talent, you’d hardly think this was optimized.
as in, the way this used to win was to be more than the sum of the parts. i then don’t really want to hear “but i think they had a better team.” we used to be the overachievers. now i feel like i watch us get outcoached every big game.
and i get lectured by idiots on style of play but at the very end of these tournaments the only way we are getting a ball in the net is someone smashes their gonads or we get a deadball headed in. you wanna talk smack about cruyff? surprise me and score a darned run of play goal in a final or elimination game.
Raul Jimenez is the difference. 2021 had Funos Mori and Alan Pulido for Mexico they were terrible. Plus Mexico was on fumes without any break going from NL to friendlies to Gold Cup. Jimenez finishes one chance for them and we never get to extra time for Miles. The 2021 team did create more chances and some corners though. I actually think out ‘25s would beat our ‘21s, but that’s a fairly low bar.
IV
“and i get lectured by idiots on style of play but at the very end of these tournaments the only way we are getting a ball in the net is someone smashes their gonads or we get a deadball headed in. you wanna talk smack about cruyff? surprise me and score a darned run of play goal in a final or elimination game.”
“lectured by idiots” ?? Hilariously ironic. Lecturing is your default style. Kettle, pot, black.
In a final or elimination game, very few really care if you score from a set piece or the run of play.
If you are saying the failure to do so devalues the result then you’ve just devalued a lot of big results over a lot of years . And you call others snobs?
Interesting to hear some grumbling from Poch about the ref and lack of fan support. I saw some comments below referencing the rules regarding handballs, but I still can’t fathom how we didn’t get a penalty when their defender literally palmed the ball in the box for a full couple seconds. Again, not a sanctioned ref and I know these rules are constantly changing, but I have never seen a play like that not be called. Also all the noncalls on Agyemang early really took him out of the game, he was our only outlet from pressure and was rendered ineffective. All that said, Mexico was clearly the better team here so it’s hard to argue the result. And despite all their pressure, we had chances to equalize, just lacked the finishing.
Beating Trindad, Saudi, Haiti, Costa Ricam Guatemala and then playing full strength Mexico in a final, that had Mexico playing with all there starters, and a USMNT fields a team, WITHOUT Balogun, Pulisic, McKennie, Musah, Weah, Pepi, Desi, Sargent, Wright, Jedi or Cardoso, and yet they fought minute after minute that was one sided from the start……is the fight, grit and tough mindset we need on this team. They still created opportunities but just lacked the quality up top to be a REAL threat on goal. They limited Mexico to just 2 goals, who had 60 – 65% of the possession and 8 shots on goal.
This is a very good foundation to build on…….Congrats!!!!
bizzy,
I agree with you. This doesn’t feel like a loss. If I’m Mexico, I’d be concerned. How do they build depth to their roster for the World Cup if they bring their ‘A’ team to the Gold Cup? Pochettino used the tournament to increase depth for the national team roster, leaving players like Sargent and Tessman off the roster. We now see strong competition for roster spots at striker, with as many as six good candidates playing abroad. Players in LaLiga (Cardoso) and the EPL (Aaronson) mostly watched, giving valued experience to newcomers. We now have real competition at GK, which may cause some interest during the August transfer window. The one disappointment I saw was that neither McKenzie or Robinson did enough to warrant a starting spot on the back line. Ream is still a top CB, but he will be at the tail end of his career next summer.
i believe in deciding who is “warranted” on the field. ream got 540/540 tournament minutes. the others never got a shot.
to me poch did not like what he saw from several backliners in the friendlies, so the only backline competition we had in the tournament was arfsten and tolkin.
to me it was a scouting and selection failure. CB was stale — ream, zimmerman, and mckenzie. that’s xerox work, nothing new. and then wide he seemed to be shaken by his poor choices, and thus basically played 2 guys most of the time, disappearing harriel.
it’s a position that badly needed a rethink that probably results in ream and richards start some more plus jedi and the shaky dest. which is not really fixing 2 years of problems back there.
Agree with the positive spin, and the realistic take on our roster talent vs Mexico’s. The biggest win is we got the fight back into the USMNT, hopefully Poch can carry it forward when our other players reintegrate.
this is a little bit glib considering the A team has sucked, 4th in nations league, out in group in copa, lots of friendly losses, and they kind of needed to be pressurized by this unit.
you’re talking like it’s 2021 and we just ran the table all summer, and anyone else that failed B team is no big whoop. this is A team has struggled similarly.
when we play keepaway, we suck. it appeared mexico thwarted the childishly naive “straight upfield” passes, at which point we couldn’t run the alternative tactics. at which point we reverted to build from the back keepaway but got outpossessed. i read some 12 year old haha he hates cruyff comments, but every time we play that way we suck. we cannot find the 9. we can’t get the ball in the box to create chances. and yesterday could barely get out of our own end. the tactics need to go.
and then if all that happens in september is maybe one of luna or tillman makes the lineup, and maybe freese starts instead of turner, i don’t think personnel grew much.
i dunno, when do you folks think we suddenly get good? magic? wand waves? it needs to become we have some sort of tactics that work against a team better than the saudis or haiti. and scouting of sufficient quality half the team doesn’t discredit itself in the friendlies before we even start.
i mean y’all get the idea is not to create a sufficiently shoddy roster where you have some hurt players and several guys who when they get 1 start look so bad they disappear the rest of the month. i get a couple players we misread them and deal with it. we had a half dozen or so who barely were fit to see a field after the swiss game, eg, harriel, sullivan.
The team overachieved given the roster. They were never going to beat that Mexico lineup. At least they showed fight, which was a progress vs the friendlies prior.
– Tillman ans Richards showed they belong in the A roster
– I’m still not convinced on Luna. He looked a bit lost vs the stronger Mexico side, but his tournament prob earned him a September call-up
– For the others, it’s a mixed bag. No one convinces at striker and Adams played under his pedigree and the level we see him play in the Prem.
– The transfer season will be crucial as we head into the WC.
adams had a lousy game and was fairly anonymous for the tournament. only occasionally those smart positioning pickoffs, and next to none of the offense. i don’t know if his foot was still bothering him or fitness or what. but unlike, say, richards, the outcome of the tournament was not, oh, he’s above this lot.
you’re like it wasn’t bad for the roster but to revive my argument from roughly the first of june, this was a little watered down even for a B team. his inability to call a solid 26 resulted in a lot of leaning on the starters, and no competition for their roles. about the only change during the tournament was LDLT for johnny. but most of the other positions were so tepidly stocked that one injury (wright) or poor performance (harriel) and we lacked depth beyond the starter.
people miss that on a basic level this peaked 2021 and has been regressing since, either A or B. pulisic’s pre-tournament beef and the swiss game had the odd effect of restoring faith in the A team when the general arc should have you questioning the whole enterprise and pecking order.
the fact the Bs smashed the last hurdle doesn’t make the As better.
IV,
“the fact the Bs smashed the last hurdle doesn’t make the As better.”
No shit. No one said they did. There you go making stuff up again..
The 2021 A’s are mostly better players in 2025 because in the interim, they have improved at their clubs.
This violates your religion because you do not believe players improve and you do not think club form means anything, but you are wrong.
Pulisic, Pepi, Jedi, just to name three examples, are significantly better players than they were in 2021.
Pro athletes either get better, or they get worse. They do not stay the same. If they could manage to stay the same they likely would get bypassed by their competition.
What the 2025 Gold Cup team does for 2021 A’s is put pressure on them because they cannot be entirely sure that Pochettino will not do something crazy like drop them for some Gold Cup guy.
Obviously, some of the 2021 A teamers are more susceptible than others. Tyler for example has been hot garbage in the Gold Cup. Something is wrong with him. Whether Pochettino would actually do anything as serious as dropping a CP, Weston or a Tyler remains to be seen but anything you can do to put pressure on your A’s to raise their level is a good thing.
For you, the grass is always greener.
You are always looking for fresh faces and that is fine the problem is:
• The supply of Fresh faces is limited and appears to be mostly of questionable quality
• It takes time and resources to evaluate fresh faces and the USMNT does not have either one.
Realistically between now and when the roster must be picked for 2026 whatever improvement the USMNT has will have to come from the current player pool improving.
“to me offsides is at the release and not initial contact.” It’s too bad that the IFAB do not agree with your interpretation. Here is the official definition from The Laws of the Game.
“A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a teammate…” it then further explains what touched means. “ *The first point of contact of the ‘play’ or ‘touch’ of the ball should be used;”
On the handball IFAB is also clear
“A handball offence is not committed when a player:
*heads, kicks or plays the ball with another part of their body and it then hits their own hand/arm (unless the ball goes directly into the opponents’ goal or the player scores immediately afterwards)
*falls and the ball hits their supporting arm, which is between their body and the ground”
I actually don’t think the rule is that clear here. “Falls and ball hits the supporting arm” implies the player has already fallen and ball is kicked into the arm. Here, the player was in the process of going down and put his hand directly on the ball. I’m pretty sure he could have avoided that. I think this just shows how much interpretation there is in even the supposedly well-defined rules.
JR, I checked the rule because at the time I thought it was an obvious PK. The rule is if you deliberately touch the ball by moving your hand/arm to the ball, it is a foul. The only thing the ref had to determine is whether he thought it was deliberate or not because he clearly moved his hand to the ball, not vice versa. We can all have our opinions on whether it was deliberate but only one person’s opinion mattered and it wasn’t mine. The US were completely outplayed and the better team won. That call isn’t why the US lost, and even if US got the PK and scored, Mexico probably would have won 3-2 so I am not too bent out of shape by it. If the US outplayed Mexico, I would probably feel differently.
no, sorry, but he’s not prone on the ground trying to raise himself with his arm “just there.” rather than fall on his face, he put his arm out. that’s intentional. it’s wise for self protection but it’s also a handball. just the same as if i step to a crosser and they kick the ball into my extended arm.
no, what they have written out of the rule is the old foul you used to be able to get by poking the ball from beneath a prone opponent into their arm. we want people to be able to get up.
but if you read the rule this way you can do a passive dive for the ball and say my arm was just there to break my fall. that’s an extension, arm away from body.
IV, unfortunately, your opinion as to if it was deliberate or not matters as much as mine, which is not at all. For the record, I think it was deliberate as well but the rules are written to allow the refs discretion, not the spectators. Win some, lose some. I know you were talking to JR, but expressing your opinions objectively doesn’t make someone a bad fan.
IV: regardless of how you interpret the wording this is how it is interpreted by the referees today. VAR didn’t hold up play either. I don’t think he’d have given the foul had it occurred in the middle of the field, plays like this are rarely called anymore unless the player tries to protect or move the ball with their hand. Arfsten’s follow thru takes out his knee that was on the ground causing him to fall forward, he’s not playing the ball with his hand he’s just falling. A player isn’t required to fall on their face, in fact they want to prevent as much head to ground contact as possible that’s why it’s now refereed this way. It stinks because it would have given us a chance, but it’s not a penalty.
no, actually, you misunderstand the rule. “deliberate” gets you the foul. you’re discussing an exception.
also, dude is looking right at the ball if you look at any still or video. and let’s be blunt, the last thing an honest athlete wants to do is try to break their fall by landing on the ball, or using a rolling ball as their hand plant. a ball hurts to land on and would rotate as you put your arm on it.
he already has a knee down. he then puts his arm on the ball.
don’t pretend to be some serious US fan if you are so eager to try and show me up you basically disagree with 2 big calls just to argue with me.
on your second one, the ball didn’t “hit” his support hand as he was laying helpless. he placed his support hand on the ball. that’s as close to “catching it” as you get. to me it’s akin to the routine “forced” call we used to have all the time. someone chops you. you grab the ball as you fall. they have to call something one way or other. it’s a deliberate touch and it makes his body bigger. and “intent does not matter.”
on the first one, you learn something occasionally. i still think he looked off.
fwiw, now that i sit here and read the fine print, i have regularly seen VAR decisions based on someone’s arms, attacker or defender. the rule says they don’t count. there are so many nooks and crannies in that rule now i doubt even the refs understand it all to the letter.
against a strong opponent, the tactics reverted back to what turkey and swiss made look silly. mexico crowded the middle on defense so we couldn’t hit a square ball upfield then flick wide. we then turned back into Defender Keepaway — even when down 1-2 at the end. we couldn’t find forward outlets to get out of our own end. we could barely get any urgency to play the ball into the box about to lose. we refused to play long except for the odd mcglynn diagonal.
i then thought the selection was the issue in the back. for a team that badly needed new answers — after months of horrible A team defense — richards aside, we barely moved the ball an inch downfield on defense metaphorically this month. we reproved richards, whoop de do. we played pretend about ream until he got exposed in the final, as he often does. we disproved a bunch of questionable wingback callups.
Explain to me how it’s Ream’s fault that everyone held the line except Freeman who dropped and kept Alvarez onside? Freeman’s man doesn’t even make a run, yet he drops. Ream is definitely slow to react on the first goal and at least partially responsible, but again Freeman is no man’s land marking no body that sets the whole play in motion.
you seem to have forgotten the ball was flicked. you can now reprocess your argument.
first off, you don’t just pull a trap and ignore where your teammates are. ream should be looking towards the service and seeing where freeman is. he pulls the trap anyway.
second, you’re ignoring it was flicked and he’s not reacting to goalside.
third, just as a matter of basic selection downside, when one deploys the glacial ream anyplace, an attempted offsides trap becomes a 1-2 yard gap by when the ball is flicked in and then headed.
IV it’s even worse that it’s flicked. Alvarez is offside on the initial ball and even farther if Freeman doesn’t get nervous and drop for no reason. Everyone is line except Freeman. Alvarez makes no attempt to get onside it’s only Freeman who moves beyond him. He’s two yards offside to everyone but Freeman.
JR– as a defender, i am looking at freeman and the ball and my man. if freeman is too far back, and i don’t have time to yell and fix it, i get my tookus goalside. what kind of idiot sees his wingback is not holding the line then pulls the trap anyway.
you want more punchy, i’m not pulling a trap with 20 minutes left, we’re marking our men. i am not winning or losing based on does my man time his run correctly. he’s gonna have to beat me on a header when i am marked goalside.
you can now lecture me how cruyff tactics are standard and offsides traps are standard, and i can point you to the scoreboard and the loser’s lockerroom for that discussion. just like passing from the back. you have cute paper ideas. they don’t work for us.
stop.
in terms of specific players, i thought we came out of this with luna and richards to rely on, tillman as a bench option, and berhalter maybe as someone we could put in late to take kicks.
freese got annointed, had a good PK shooutout, but in reality shipped 5 goals in 3 knockouts, 6 goals in the last 4 games. in the final we gave up a nearpost goal and a header a foot or two past his shoulder. are you really sure he’s better than turner? i’m not.
on defense, as i grumbled, about all we came out of that with is richards can play, and arfsten might be an attacking sub.
at 6, adams had a poor, anonymous tournament, and his “pair” was the mediocre LDLT and not berhalter, which didn’t make much sense. if berhalter is out there to take kicks, it should be as 6.
at 10, i think luna should be setting up tillman to finish rather than other way around.
so i watched a ton of LDLT and we’ve figured out a way to sideline mcglynn, the one guy who will whack a nice switch, or bomb a shot.
i think our fetish for xeroxed lineups of annointed players playing the same spot over and over moves things along less than people think. the fanboys get excited. we get to a final. oh, oops, 80% of that crap doesn’t work against anyone any good.
select better call sheets. let the players compete.
at wing, i didn’t think berhalter was any good on offense and burned an attacker. there were also a few poor selections who basically disappeared before the tournament even started, eg, sullivan.
at striker, they invested heavily in agyemang, who offers a useful big body. he might be situationally useful but couldn’t carry it. after wright got hurt, white was a waste. downs is interesting. downs played less than a full game of minutes and we played a tournament and didn’t really find out a lot.
IV,
Yeah? So what?
if you don’t grasp “we found maybe one starter — who already starts — who is playing the right position,” not my fault. my point is due to usage patterns — xerox lineups — we learned a lot about some guys who let us down in the final and less about others.
and i think we have luna and tillman reversed wrong.
IV
“xerox patterns”
what a load of bullshit.
Mexico were far better than us at holding possession and used that fact to deliberately tire us out and blunt what offensive ideas we did have.
In other words they controlled the game.
What was wrong with the USMNT in that game was exacerbated by the fact that they have not played very many games together. So when Mexico forced Luna, Tillman and Arfsten, to spend their time defending the USMNT was not able to figure out a way to better exploit the few openings Mexico gave us. That said had Luna and Patrick taken their chances better, and if the Mexican keeper had a narrower face and head, we might be looking at a different result.
Allegedly, Mexico featured their World Cup squad. Yet they had a hard time beating a basic thrown together squad that was not very high on quality or teamwork.
Like I said this game was a lose-lose for both sides.
basic defensive stuff — you doubleteam someone on the sideline, they don’t get out of it (“you can try and get yourself or the ball by me, but not both of you”). you don’t let someone turn and shoot in front of the net. stay goalside on deadballs. don’t give up goals near post.
i generally believe you have to overcome bad reffing but dude literally did a rhythmic gymnastics routine with hand on the ball and that’s a no-call but what looked fairly off and was called so on the field somehow gets overturned VAR.
VAR is supposed to be clear and not still debatable. that and to me offsides is at the release and not initial contact.
but we generally got outplayed and once the game was going had no plan for progressing the ball or scoring other than feed agyemang or score a deadball.
and then we get a free kick 5′ left and tap it back into play. wtf
Not surprised by the result and, considering the players we had, the performance wasn’t bad. My main criticism is that when we did get the ball back we moved too slowly. A player would hesitate in making a pass and a teammate who had been open would then be covered. Even in the waning minutes they didn’t show a lot of speed of play, just an occasional long ball. Whether it’s an A team or a B team, they have to play much faster, like Switzerland does. We played quickly against T&T and then pretty much abandoned it. And it wasn’t just the opposition. Guatemala is no world beater yet we just let them control the ball until they got back in the game. And my doubts about Agyemang continue. Given he was physically beat up by Mexico often without a call, at the end when he and Downs were together Downs passed up a shot to give it to Agyemang who didn’t do much with it. Downs should have taken the shot. Agyemang didn’t do much with his opportunity too often described Agymang’s play in the tournament.
Agreed. Pretty much sums up the last three games they played. Not quick enough ball movement and quick enough thinking mixed with players willing to make the pass. Plenty of times even tonight the pass to a teammate making a run wasn’t made. Got to have the trust in your teammate. Something I also think this team lacks is trust in eachother. But with that being said there were a lot of bad giveaways again. Bad passes are killing the ability to get the ball moving quicker.
Gary,
“My main criticism is that when we did get the ball back we moved too slowly. A player would hesitate in making a pass and a teammate who had been open would then be covered.”
Teams that move quickly do so because they know where to go before the pass is even made. This version of the USMNT has played how many games together? Six?
They are not really completely comfortable playing together yet.
-If you are going to give up 60% of the ball, you have to finish your few chances when you have them and you have to defend set pieces. We didn’t have the quality and or experience to do that.
-Who played well against Switzerland, Türkiye, and Mexico? Tillman and Richards I guess.
-These next few weeks and where these guys and guys who weren’t here end up are probably more important than the result tonight. They need places that they’ll be pushed but will play.
-If Pepi, Haji, and Balo are all hurt next summer we are in trouble.
-Maybe the biggest winners this tournament were Musah, Busio, and Tessmann.
JR,
If this is Mexico’s World Cup team (??) then they should be concerned.
They were unable to finish off a USMNT that was clearly inferior. I’m trying to decide if some of the US starters were exposed because they finally faced a legit team or because they had started so many games in a row and were stale.
All things considered it’s clear the Gold Cup team are not even close to World Cup worthy. Pulisic can rest easy though they should still freeze him out in September and send him a message.
Rumor has it that PSV and Lyon are in for Gio, if the money can be worked out. Yeah, Earnie does not have to love every player ( or their family) he signs.
That’s why they pay him the big bucks.
I mention this because it is clear to me that if Gio can come back to anywhere near his best self, and I don’t think that is a given, the USMNT can really use him.
It will be interesting to see how much of the Gold Cup team’s identity, Pochettino retains for the World Cup run up team starting with the Asian friendlies.
V:- I agree I think Mexican fans were concerned throughout this tournament. They’re I’m sure feeling good right now, but when SKorea and Japan come in September they will be worried before those matches.
-were they tired or outmatched? I think a bit of both. Freeman and Arfsten’s value is getting forward and pinning teams back. Mexico was able to maintain possession and keep both pinned deep and forced Luna and Berhalter to drop deeper to help giving no outlet when we did win it. The guys were certainly tired and that affected their decision making and ability to get on the ball but being heavily outmatched on both flanks kept us pinned all night.
-Reyna: I’ve seen no current stories on PSV or Lyon interest other than just the prayers of us fans. In fact I saw some that PSV and Ajax were not interested. Columbus has a DP spot, but like PSV The Crew expects its AM to work hard in the press. I do firmly believe if the US is to get to the quarterfinals (which seems a fantasy anyway) Gio will need to play a significant role.
I thought it was interesting that this was the first US team to go through a Gold Cup without any changes in the starting lineup. Like they were so good, we didn’t need anyone else? After the first 5 games Pochettino should have a pretty good idea of the ability of the starters and then he waits until late to make any subs. If this is an indication of lack of flexibility on his part, I have a problem with that. Additionally, who thinks that guys like Freeman or Arfsten are going to play a big role in the World Cup? At RB we have Dest and Scally and Jedi on the left and I think we can find a better alternative than Arfsten as a backup to A Robinson. Poch should have played Tolkin more to see how well he would do. At some point it seems rather pointless to me to keep playing those who have little chance of having a role in the World Cup. I don’t see his player selection as being much better than Berhalter’s, if it is better at all. Maybe we will have a better idea after some more friendlies.
JR,
+ You should tell your friend IV , Mr. I hate Cruyff and possession football that if he want’s to see how effective possession football can be in the hands of a smart football team this game is a good example.
+ Mexico forced our guys to drop back in defense so much that when we did get the ball back there was no one up top to serve as an outlet. thereby strangling our offense. There was Patrick but he and IV both have the same don’t hold on to the ball mindset.
-The Gio rumors I’ve heard ( take them with a grain of salt) are that Gio stayed with BVB because they were pretty sure Pochettino would not have picked Gio because he has an ongoing health issue. He’s not confident in his sprinting as he fears tearing his hamstring again. Had he been at the Gold Cup he would have been expected to contribute on demand and he can’t. Staying with BVB he can train with them and recuperate and if he were called upon he would have a lot of notice and time would be limited.
I can think of a lot of inconsistencies with that story but the fact is Gio was not at the Gold Cup and the whole thing has struck me as weird for some time now. Something must be wrong with Gio and it wouldn’t surprise me if he is not on the World Cup team.
If he does get back I like him for the LDLT role, even though I see no reason to give up on Johnny making a comeback yet. Tyler was pretty bad today, giving the ball away pretty cheaply. I was expecting him to step up and he did not. He may be injured more than he has let on.
V: I do think keeping Gio healthy and available for sale played into BvB’s thinking. If his hamstrings are that fragile it doesn’t really matter because a player that can’t run doesn’t work unless your Messi.
Vac, out of curiosity, what do you deem to be a successful WC for US and Mexico? Four groups of 12 with a round of 32. 12 of 16 3rd place teams get out of the group. 32 teams advance and only 16 are eliminated in group play. I believe I looked up the rules but there is the possibility that I dreamed this. If you don’t win your group, you probabaly get a top 16 team in round of 32. To me, both US and Mexico would need luck to beat a top 16 team after group play (not talking about FIFA rankings). If they get to round of 16 probably face a top 8 team, which would require even more luck.
Tele 57
“Vac, out of curiosity, what do you deem to be a successful WC for US and Mexico?”
+ Advance
+ Win the knockout game. If they can do that then it is a success.
After that it depends on who we get after a knockout win. If it is a reasonably winnable game ( i.e. NOT Argentina or Spain, etc.) then I’ll be unhappy if we don’t take advantage of being on a hot streak. We have enough talent that if we can get lucky and hot, who knows how far we can go?
Because of the expansion, everyone is talking about an “easier” World Cup. I don’t believe it. World Cup games are never easy no matter who you are playing. Because every team you meet is likely to give you their all time very best shot, at least when it comes to grit and effort.
What matters is :
+ Having a good coach and players who are somewhat unified.
+ Getting a good draw
+ Getting lucky with who you face if you do advance
+ Getting lucking with injuries, your injuries and your opponents injuries
+ Having good “card discipline”
As you can tell a lot of that is out of your control.
Vac, 48 teams really seems to benefit the too 10 teams more than anyone else. It takes one extra game to win and those are the trams with the most depth. Winning your group will prob be much more important because of the quality of opponent in round of 32 but if you get second, probably not too much difference in your opponent from a prior round of 16. I see US, Mexico, and Canada all getting out of their group. One of the three prob makes it past round of 32 but then knocked out at round of 16 but as you said, there are a lot of variables. My simplistic approach is it is a good tournament if you make it out of your group and beat teams you have better players than in knockout round. It is great if you beat team(s) with better player in knockout rounds, and phenomenal if you make the finals. This would make 1990 bad, 1994 good, 1998 bad, 2002 great, 2006 bad, 2010 good, 2014 good, 2018 atrocious, 2022 good
Tillman, Luna, Berhalter, and Freese improved their stock.berhalter didn’t have a great game against Mexico but neither did the subs that came in that could have been options to start instead of him. Played a other great set piece that led to a goal.
This version of the US team went just about as far as anyone could have hoped in the Gold Cup. That was pretty close to Mexico’s best lineup, while the US treated the tournament like a tryout, with only a few ‘A’ roster players. Measured from that point of view, the tournament was more of a success than failure.
Word is Downs is being sold by FC Cologne to Southampton. A bit of step down as Southampton was relegated, but the transfer fee they offered was too good to pass up. Downs along with Agyemang should hopefully show real improvement, and create competition in the striker pool. It is impressive at how many of these US players were tested and raised their profile in this tournament, with some garnering interest overseas. The next set of friendlies should be interesting.
i disagree. JR’s routine dismissal of green is he’s B.2 while he argues for guys in the c’ship, which might be slightly worse. US fans like things british.
the way agyemang got used we didn’t really get a good eval of downs other than he could handle that PK, which is fairly stupid considering wright was gone early, white should never have been picked, and we knew plenty about agyemang.
along similar lines, i got to watch ream get abused for both goals in the final after hogging 540/540 possible backline minutes. “but he passes so well.”
-Green is a defensive midfielder not sure why you brought him to this discussion. If you had seen him play once since 2018 you’d know that. Fun fact Damion Downs has 2 more career Bundesliga goals than Julian Green. That’s because all 3 times Green has made a Bundesliga roster he has been quickly benched. 4 times if you consider Stuttgart gained promotion and had no desire to bring him with them and loaned him immediately to Furth.
-Rankings of different leagues
*Opta Analyst
Championship (6th)
2Bundesliga (22nd)
*Global Football Rankings
Championship (12th)
2Bundesliga (18th)
*Kick Algorithm
Championship (11th)
2Bundesliga (30th)
*Give Me Sport
Championship (10th)
2Bundesliga (17th)
So no it’s not that Americans like British things. By the way MLS was rated well above 2Bundesliga in all of these as well. The 2Bundesliga is not better than the Championship.
JR,
Forget Julian Green. What about your routine dismissal of Duane Holmes?
Especially considering his British tint.
V: Duane was pretty good for Houston on Saturday.
IV,
“get abused for both goals in the final after hogging 540/540 possible backline minutes. “but he passes so well.”
hogging? Who would you have played in that role instead of Timmy.
JR/V– you know exactly what you pull. inconsistent hierarchy games. c’ship favored over B.2 even though that’s same division level and B.2 is probably better soccer/talent. b.2 is no good for USMNT unless it’s sargent, in which case it’s fine and shows how good he is.
and it’s not just about green, it’s downs who looked solid. you always have an excuse for me to watch a similar lineup to the last game lose. maybe campbell gets capped next cycle.
and you’re gonna hide behind a specific beef on green as i watch LDLT play freaking 6.
my point is the absurdity where you swap leagues and it’s lateral or maybe even slightly down in reality, but it’s perceived as better for snob purposes. probably because we like england and the games are on readily available streaming.
PN: Koln signed a vet striker from Kaiserslautern last week. Not sure if that was after Downs had told them he wanted to leave or not. Damion and his people have a pretty good idea how Koln will play as they battle relegation all year. At Southampton they will likely be on the front foot most of the time.
Proud of the team making it to final. Never fun to lose. In the end just not enough to beat Mexico. Take the good and the bad learn from both. Now its time to concentrate at your clubs and kick on.