It was one of the most interesting stories of the MLS off-season. Juan Carlos Osorio’s abrupt departure from the Chicago Fire to the New York Red Bulls and the subsequent feud that followed. It is a feud taken up by both team’s fans and waged by the teams, well at least one team.
You see, Chicago hasn’t let it go. More to the point, the Fire’s new owner, Andrew Hauptman, hasn’t let it go. Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire, Hauptman has labled the Red Bulls, and Osorio specifically, as Public Enemy No. 1 in Chicago. According to multiple sources in MLS, Hauptman has told his team officials that the Fire will not do business of any kind with the Red Bulls.
While this shouldn’t come as that much of a surprise, Hauptman’s recent public declarations about his contempt for Osorio’s departure have kicked up some embers on a flame that looked like it might fade. However, in his attempt to discredit Osorio and portray him as a villain to a Fire fanbase that already thinks Osorio is the devil, Hauptman has opened the door to providing a clearer, and more accurate description of the circumstances surrounding Osorio departure from Chicago.
In multiple profiles on Hauptman written in Chicago newspapers recently, the Fire owner made reference to a clause in Osorio’s contract with the Fire that would have allowed Osorio to leave his job. In neither case did Hauptman bother to point out that the fact that Osorio did not exercise that option, and in fact, helped the Fire secure a compensation package that was higher than any paid for a departing coach in the history of MLS.
Yes, you read that right. Osorio’s contract with the Fire included a clause that would have allowed him to resign, and after 30 days, he would have been free to take a position with any other team in the world, MLS or otherwise. The poorly-constructed contract, which came courtesy of Chicago’s previous owners AEG, left the door open for Osorio to walk away.
After initially being denied permission to speak with the Red Bulls about the job vacated by former coach Bruce Arena, Osorio used the escape clause as a bargaining tool. What started as a mild interest in the Red Bulls position turned into a strong desire to leave Chicago as Hauptman’s handling of the situation left Osorio eager to leave the club. With the escape clause as the ideal bargaining chip, Osorio made it clear to Chicago. Either the Fire let him interview with the Red Bulls and let the Red Bulls pay compensation if they hired him, or he would walk away and Chicago would receive nothing upon him being hired by the Red Bulls.
The Fire relented and eventually negotiated a considerable compensation package with the Red Bulls that included cash (which some sources put at approximately $500,000), a major allocation ($300,000) and the Red Bulls first-round draft pick. A hefty price and a price that would not have been paid if Osorio had not felt a sense of obligation to see Chicago compensated.
Chicago accepted that compensation from the Red Bulls, but that didn’t stop the Fire, and specifically Hauptman, from pressing the league to investigate the Red Bulls for tampering. According to sources, MLS proceeded with an investigation, interviewing several of the parties involved in Osorio’s move to the Red Bulls. The league never did penalize the Red Bulls for the alledged tampering.
Perhaps the most ironic aspect of Chicago’s bitterness regarding Osorio’s departure is the fact that the circumstances surrounding the Fire’s courtship of Osorio from Colombian club Millonarios were just as, if not more, questionable than Osorio’s departure to the Red Bull. According to sources, Fire president John Guppy traveled to Colombia to meet with Osorio and watch his training sessions without ever speaking to anybody at Millonarios (and also spoke to Osorio about the Fire head coaching job before he had even fired Dave Sarachan). The Fire never asked for permission to speak to Osorio while he was still Millonarios coach nor did Chicago offer any compensation when Osorio was let out of his contract by Millonarios.
Not exactly the actions of a club that should be crying foul about tampering now, are they? If anything, some would call Osorio’s subsequent departure from the Fire to the Red Bulls a touch of karma. I know Millonarios fans would.
So what now? There is no what now, not when it comes to the Fire and Red Bulls. There is merely contempt and anymosity and while there is nothing wrong with a good old soccer feud, there is just something wrong about a feud not born out of on-field battles, but off-field disputes.
This is sports. Coaches change jobs.
Stop whining Fire fans.
Chicago has won the battle because of MLS’ ridiculous “discovery” rule. If RBNY wants to win the war, all they have to do is call up cousin RB Salzburg and have them sign Marmol and keep him until we can sign him. That would make MLS look ridiculous which is the way they deserve to look.
Nice piece of unbiased reporting there Ives.
“Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire…” Wow, I guess that about sums it up. Thanks for providing all those details.
That’s quite a rosie picture of JCO you’re painting there. I can hardly wait to see what the finished portrait looks like at the end of the season.
I’m not surprised that JCO left. Look at his resume. The guy has jumped from job to job and he expressed a desire to coach at the highest level at his first meeting with Fire STHs.
I can’t blame him for being ambitious, but I would have more respect for the man if he didn’t use his family as an excuse for leaving Chicago. No one here believes that crap he spoon fed his fellow Columbian at the Trib about being forced to make a difficult decision for the sake of his family. He’ll pull up his NY roots in a second if someone waves Euros in front of his face, and you know it. He just won’t be able to use his family as an excuse next time around.
Looking forward to seeing who coaches the pink cows next year.
Speaking of RBNY management. What’s the story on the guy leaving RBNY who made the decision to fire Bruce Arena and hired Osorio?
Where is he going? Was he pushed? What’s the deal?
We want news not feelings!
how many chicago fire fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?!
NONE! they are too preoccupied with crying in the dark like the little emo fags that they are!
CTRBNY i guess u cant read because i said ”
Just got off a conference call with Andrew Hauptman & Javier Leon they said “Who gives a **** anymore?… Only NY fans”
Posted by: DWR | April 10, 2008 at 11:55 PM
”
That was at 11:55pm on 4-10-08
The Daily Herald was at Published: 4/9/2008 12:09 AM
Andrew Hauptman said that he changed his mind and just wants some Seagram’s Seven
And who says im a Chicago Fan
You Fire fans should feel incredibly freaking grateful that Osorio didn’t just exercise his exit clause. He did you a favor.
You people who are asking Ives to reveal his sources should shut the hell up. If you’re not willing to trust Ives, then stop reading this site.
And you Fire fans who claim that Ives is just stirring the pot: you hypocrites post anti-Osorio comments with vindictive glee on Red Card every chance you get so shut the f*** up. I’m tired of your nonsense.
I would have to say that RBNY paying compensation to Chicago even though they could have had Osario opt out and get him for free has MLS’s finger prints all over it. We keep acting as if all the teams in MLS are separate entities, but they are not completely separate from each other. They are all kind of like “members” in MLS, and they all work together along with the league to keep things as fair as possible within the rules. Teams are not allowed to wheel and deal with as much money as they see fit. This was in place from the inception of MLS because they wanted to prevent another NASL-like collapse due to the one team with all the money having a ridiculous squad. So I believe compensation was given because of the nature of MLS. If the teams were truly separate entities, then I doubt any compensation would have been paid, and whoever the idiot was in the RBNY front office that chose to pay for a person that was essentially free should be fired for making one of the worst business moves in history.
Now, though we say that overseas all the teams are cut-throat towards each other, that is true to a certain extent. Teams do generally try to treat each other with respect so they can make future deals together. Hell, go back two years ago in Serie A during a friendly between Milan and Juventus, Kaka dislocated Buffon’s shoulder when they both went for a loose ball. Buffon required surgery was going to be out for around 3 months. So Milan decided to make up for it by loaning Abbiati to Juventus. So sometimes, even in Europe, rivals work together to help each other out.
The good thing that comes of all of this is that the rivalry is really rekindled between these two teams. The only difference is that I used to respect the Fire a lot more when Bradley and Wilt were in charge. Those were teams I feared. Now, I just can’t stand them, which is a different type of rivalry, but still good.
its MLS rules that has created this problem, everyone plays by the rules but we love to bitch about it.
Chicago holding onto whatever they can after people leaving is perfectly fine.
New York claiming ‘let it go’ and give it to us with our dual DP’s.
Call it classless on Osorio’s part, but what ya gonna do.
Ives,
I’m not sure why you suggest that the contract was “poorly-constructed” — I think JCO was well advised to insist on it.
Look at the timeline again: you reported JCO would be the next Fire coach on July 5, 2007. That next week, on July 12th, Andell Holdings announced it had entered into a preliminary agreement with AEG to acquire the Fire.
Put yourself in JCO’s shoes. He had worked with Guppy, but at the time he was hired to replace Sarachan there had to have been considerable uncertainty about the new ownership and how Guppy would work with them. So JCO demanded, and got, the ability to walk away if he didn’t like what unfolded. Seems smart to me.
As for AEG, I’m not sure giving the clause to JCO was all that dumb either. Again, he probably wouldn’t come without it and with Blanco set to debut with the Fire on July 22nd, Guppy needed a coach who could work with him, and he could trust. JCO had experience in MLS, Columbia and the EPL and spoke Spanish — and Guppy had worked with him. He was a perfect fit. With a pressing need to make sure Blanco had every chance to succeed, AEG agreed to JCO’s terms and gave him the out. And he turned out to be a very good choice.
All of those decisions make perfect sense to me if you recall the events surrounding the Fire at the time.
B. F. D!
this is now yesterday’s snow. On to the next event folks. May the best team win.
That’s funny DWR, because Hauptman is singing to a different tune in interviews: http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=168747
Aww sounds like you pathetic Chicagoans really do give a ****
“there is just something wrong about a feud not born out of on-field battles, but off-field disputes.”
But honestly these are the type of feuds that are the best. Celtic vs. Rangers isn’t ALL about the soccer. Theres more behind it, stemming from the religious divide.
And I am very happy that our owner is so passionate about the team. So im going to do like any other home team fan should and support the team.
NEW YORK IS PUBLIC ENEMY NUMERO UNO!!!! =D
Just got off a conference call with Andrew Hauptman & Javier Leon they said “Who gives a **** anymore?… Only NY fans”
great reporting Ives!
IF these accusations are true I would bet that thee is a whole lot of interactions behind this that not even drunken gossip with a blogger will out.
WOW! Now it’s not just Fire fans who hate JCO, 800,000 and draft picks. Perhaps this article is the real reason the Canadian boss lost his job.
Yeah, seriously, what’s all this whining about sources from Fire fans. Ives stated in the article that this information about the clause was talked about by Hauptman in public interviews.
For those who wonder where Ives got his information about having the clause, it took me about 20 seconds to do a search involving chicago and an Andrew Hauptman feature to find the quotes from him on the subject.
Good to see a little animosity injected into the league. Makes it a little more interesting.
And you wonder why people are calling Fire fans cry babies.
If Osorio didn’t exercise that clause out of the kindness for the Fire, then I’d be pretty pissed at NYRB and Osorio if I were a Red Bulls fan. If that’s the case, then he just screwed your team out of $800,000 and a couple of draft picks, all of which could have been used to improve the team. Either way you look at it, Osorio screwed someone over, be it the Fire or the Red Bulls. He’s a total class(less) act!
That’s just it. You missed it. Osorio didn’t use the clause because he was trying to be a professional about the whole thing. He didn’t want to just leave Chicago with nothing. He could have and then what would people be saying?
There was no tampering, so enough of that garbage.
If the Fire were really entitled to NOTHING I’m pretty sure that RBNY would have paid nothing. I don’t think they’re running a charity over there. Though it would explain some of the teams they’ve trotted out over the years…….
RBNY either paid to avoid tampering charges or because Osorio didn’t use his release clause to protect his own position.
Papa bear what exactly are we diluted in? Water? Milk of magnesium? That’s just delusional thinking there.
I see a lot of the complaints about Ives’s article to be well…not about his article but about Ives himself. Can you say logical fallacy?
That’s just it. JCO did not break a contract. He had a clause that the team agrees to put in there. Who did those negotiating? AEG? Guppy? If AEG did it, then why was Guppy asleep at the wheel and not see it? He’s the GM.
JCO asked to leave and the teams came to terms on compensation. You could have had NOTHING!
C’mon fellas let’s play nice. I heard a good one last night:
TFC fans think that their team isn’t shite just because they signed Amado Guevara…. …..get it?!?!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ah, papa bear, you forget RBNY 2008 UNDEFEATED in league play!! 100% VICTORIOUS!!
Fire, not so much.
I am not diluted, but you must see that you are deluded. And a bad SPELLER!
Yeah, because New York has won so many titles lately. Nice comeback. I just checked those boards again and came up with this gem.
http://www.soccerpubs.com/boards/index.php?s=&showtopic=26280&view=findpost&p=536989
Then there is the last one in that thread. Yeah, that’s the way to really run that Guppy out of town. Section 8 really hates him.
The guy is screwing your team. Keep him there since it only helps everyone else.
So it’s cool for someone to quit and break a contract like JCO did? Cool beans but terrible morals. Not to mention stupid for whomever negotiated JCO’s contract for the Fire to put that clause in there.
Such is life…
Can we move on please? This is pathetic.
@Posted by: Struthers | April 10, 2008 at 09:15 PM
so we won all 4 USOC titles in 1 year, a supporters shield, and make 3 total finals appearances in only ‘1 year’? Chicago is a little more amazing than I thought.
Typical diluted RBNY fan.
Dante:
Why don’t you try reading some newer threads? This was post-osorio only.
Also, you’re telling me the home of the Yankees, Giants, Mets, Knicks, Rangers and now Red Bulls aren’t spoiled?….if they’re not, then I’m a waterskiing squirrel.
Oh my god this is too rich. I love it. This wins the spin of the day award.
You actually believed a story from JCO where he had a chance to walk for free, but he decided from sheer altruism to not only flush $300K of his new team’s potential salary cap space down the drain, but also potential transfer fee money and a ‘free’ shot at a potential college star?
I refuse to believe you are this naive, Ives. I absolutely refuse to believe it.
This is so much like the sitation with DeGrandpre and his secret AEG Altidore clause, 3 losing seasons in a row = trade to another AEG club only now Fire is not one. Just missed it really when you look at the table the past 3 seasons, ’05 just above, ’06 LOSING, ’07 just above! And then who to blame! Not JCO, that’s for sure!
At least we’re not like these Fire RBNY ffans, all the same, yack yack yack, RBNY waaaah, team’s never any good even with 2 dps, Lalas Osorio Angel Altidore, whoever! Ha not like the Cosmos! THAT was a team – fill the stadium, Pele all those guys. Metrostars, bosh! Fire – give me a break! one year: 1998. That’s it! Go home. Go home.
The article does well to point out that Osorio isn’t a horrible person, which I don’t believe he is. However, insinuating Hauptman in AEG’s shite is just shoddy journalism. He may have handled the hiring much better- who knows; all he stated is that we would not have offered such a flawed contract so that’s the perspective he is seeing it from. That said, insinuating Guppy is plenty fair…you’ll have trouble convincing me that Guppy isn’t a cutthroat backstabber (or that he hasn’t at least pulled some questionable stuff).
Time to change the name of the Chicago team. Let’s called them Chicago Babies. :-p
Alejandro Ruiz you are truly a fool. I’m pretty sure the people in the nation’s capital would disagree with you that they don’t have civic pride. And you said, “The Chicago Fire is point of a pride, it’s why we’re called the Second city.” Chicago is, in fact, called the Second City because it is considered the second most important city in the US after NYC. Some claim it’s LA now but whatever. You’re entirely incorrect about the source of the nickname. There are “second cities” all over the world.
wow…this thread….
someone call the WAAAAHHHHMBULENCE
If anyone wants any proof that Guppy has the Fire fans, especially Section 8 in his back pocket then just read this http://www.soccerpubs.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=24962
Guppy wasn’t at fault for Osorio leaving? That’s downright hilarious.
Nothing but a bunch of whiners who feel they deserve everything.
Connor, you are completely wrong in regards to the Marmol situation, Chicago has just as much salary room as the Red Bulls, as they are both at the low end as far as how much they are paying their players , Chicago wants Marmol to play for them, Denis Hamlett has said as much (I wonder why Ives failed to report that). So to say that Chicago is doing anything to cause MLS to not sign Marmol is just a false claim.
Fire fans whining? Check.
Fire fans feeling entitled? Check.
Fire fans showing us their giant persecution complexes? Check.
I can’t believe the thing about Osorio’s clause didn’t come out until now.
Please don’t go painting Hauptman as though he’s running a non-profit here. And you sound like San Jose fans with the AEG-bashing after the fact when – HELLO – you’re so quick to point out what a great frigging franchise you are. Did NONE of that happen on AEG’s watch? Please refresh my memory on that one.
Guppy’s evil and an idiot, and it appears as though Hauptman (to his credit) sees through the accent and the b.s. Good for him. Maybe it won’t be long before he cans Mr. Fire In The Belly.
Of COURSE Guppy tampered with Osorio while he was with Millionaros. Does that surprise anyone? And when it comes back to bite him – after he says flatly that Osorio would coach the team in 2008 – that strikes me as being karma. Giggity.
And, oh, by the way, any of you ever seen Marmol play? Anyone? Anyone? No? Yet you’re making it into WWIII?
Please.
Fire fans, stop crying, put down the tissue and listen. If you want to be mad at somebody for this topic coming back up then blame your owner, who just couldn’t help himself and had to try and get in a few more shots on Osorio. The owner is the one who went public about that clause, and if anything, I wonder why no Chicago writer even realized what the guy was saying.
Oh, and what the Fcuk does this story have to do with Marmol? He isn’t mentioned once in the story. Chicago fans trying to connect the Marmol situation with this are just plain dumb.
Ugggghhhh, can’t stand the fire. I don’t think that two players on one team have missed more open goals than Barret and Calen Carr, and Blanco is still public enemy #1 in my book. Justin Mapp is the only redeeming quality they have over there, can we trade Reyna for him?… I can’t wait to see Chicago lose to San Jose on Saturday. I’ll be playing the worlds smallest violin for them.
haha on the Walken post
How much more…does John Guppy…have to do….to get fired?
Ohh interesting about the limited number of Discovery Claims rvs5evr. I didn’t know that and makes the process seem SLIGHTLY better.
“And does anyone understand how sources work? People give inside information to reporters in confidence not saying “hey, post this with my name and a written copy of everything so I can lose my job”
Steve, I suppose it’s possible that you’re naive enough to believe that sources never, you know, lie. You would have made a great White House reporter leading up to the start of the Iraq war. “Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld, I’ll type that right up for you, sir.”
None of us are saying Ives has no credibility. The contract may be as he says, and the Red Bulls might have decided to give the Fire free money. We are saying that an incendiary story that obviously quotes only Osorio/Red Bulls sources
I would have liked to see a response from the Fire, and in particular, an actual copy or quote from the contract in question. My guess is that any settlement that the Fire/Red Bulls reached as regards Osorio has a confidentiality clause, so I suspect we will never actually learn about the actual contract language.
Hey Ives, I’ve gotten kind of sick of anonymous sources over the last few years. How about actually getting someone on the record who’s willing to actually reveal the contract language?
aristotle- no he doesnt owe us anything, and thats not what im saying…. he left on a whim, b/c he’s running our team and whenever the chance appeared he up n’ left… hence y i said in my example if Knight up n’ left to Purdue IU fans would be irate….
when i said the discussion was over months ago, i mean just that… this topic was brought up merely to spark fuel into an already sensitive subject… noone can deny that there is no love loss between the two teams, and to post a 1 sided subjective article will only blow up (which it did)…
fire fans have dropped this topic (until it resurfaced today), only to post lil’ jabs here and there about a coach that had no love for chicago, so there is no love for him… simple as that…
im not saying what ives found out is inaccurate, his sources could easily be giving him accurate info… what im saying is that this topic was dropped and this only sped things back up…