The St. Louis MLS expansion bid is set to receive a boost that could be the first step to putting the midwestern City over the top in its quest for an MLS franchise.
St. Louis Cardinals star and recently-named National League MVP Albert Pujols is set to join the St. Louis MLS expansion bid, a high-ranking official in the St. Louis expansion group, St. Louis Soccer United, told SBI on Tuesday.
St. Louis is hoping to be one of two expansion cities added in 2011 and is one of seven finalists for the expansion slots. The addition of Pujols is a major coup and, for my money, makes St. Louis a front-runner for an expansion slot. With a stadium deal already in place in the St. Louis suburb of Collinsville, the addition of Pujols bolsters what had been considered the lone weakness in the St. Louis bid, which is a strong and diverse ownership group. In fact, sources within the group have told SBI that Pujols is one of three new investors set to be revealed in the coming weeks.
What do you think of the news? Does this make St. Louis the flat-out front-runner? Think Pujols joining the group won’t make much of a difference?
Share your thoughts below.
If it brings the MLS to St. Louis it’s Great.
Thanks to Albert for jumping on board!!!
I’ll then have to stop being a Fire Fan and support the St. Louis MLS team. St. Louis is a great soccer town, college, high school and select soccer etc. We should have an MLS team here!!
BWL/AI17 –
As I mentioned in my prior post, comparing Collinsville to Bridgeview strictly in terms of time from a downtown core is not entirely accurate. Again, Collinsville is only about 7-8 minutes from downtown StL. As someone who lived in Lincoln Park for a bit and traveled to see a few Fire games, there’s really no comparison (aside from neither is truly a downtown stadium).
As far as I know, Metrolink isn’t slated to travel out to the site, but I would consider the ownership group to be a bit short-sighted if they did not offer some sort of shuttle service to and from a mass transit hub of some sort.
As for a professional soccer fan base, I’ll admit that I don’t have figures to back my claim. However, I can say that soccer is something that is very much a cultural thing in StL, even though there is not a pro team to tie it to. If StL is a baseball town on a professional level, then it is a soccer town on a deeper, more familial and cultural level. Families play together, across nationalistic and racial lines… it’s not simply mom dropping the kids at soccer practice and gossiping at Saturday morning games. I believe it’s an “if you build it, they will come” sort of situation. If given a quality side with quality management and FO, I would predict a TFC-style turnout or better.
PS-
I think you want to increase regional play and the idea of NY playing say Seatle once every 2 years is pretty cool. Makes it more special.
-Mike
St Louis and Montreal seem to be a lock for 2011.
Miami, is a lock for 2010.
These three teams seem certain to get in this round of qualifying.
Ultimately I’d like to see something like a 3 division league, something similar to 2000/2001 but with respectably sized divisions – home and away in division and 1 game with each team in the other divisions… unfortunately that would mean somewhere around 30 teams, so we’re not gonna have that anytime soon.
But I think a situation like this would keep the majority of the away games in relatively close proximity such that traveling fans would be much more prevalent.
Anyways, I’ll keep dreaming about that. As for St. Louis and this news – I think you’ll see St. Louis in for 2011. MLS had pretty much told them that if they got their finances in order they would be in. I do believe there will be some sort of ‘St. Louis was in line first’ thing that goes on here.
Which I think is important b/c not all of the candidates will make it in – they will want to have the assurance that if they stay in line they will get preference to any new fish in the pond. Now, I don’t expect MLS to turn down substantially better bids, but I also don’t see more than one USL team coming over. Between Miami – a rather sketchy bid if you ask me – and St. Louis, I do think St. Louis holds the edge.
Frankly, though, I just want to know. This is definitely going to be released at MLS Cup right?
Holy Sufferin’ St. Louisans, batfans,
I hear what everyone’s saying re: Pujols – that he’s only window-dressing. However, this bid was goin’ straight to nowheresville, even w/ nice lookin’ stadium plans on the drawing board.
Jeff Cooper seems like a nice enuf guy, but even a multi-million dollar plaintiff’s atty from Alton (right?) doesn’t measure up to other ownership groups.
Take a look at Seattle e.g.: Paul Allen (& his Microsoft billions) + Joe Roth (former head of Disney, etc.) make Jeff Cooper look like an A&P deli-man… not that there’s anything wrong w/ that!
It seems like the league’s been pushin’ Cooper to expand his ownership group for a while now. And adding Pujols to the equation (+ others to be named later) gives his bid some heft, even if only for appearance’s sake!
As a born and bred St. Louisan, this addition brings a smile to my face! Keep up the good work, Mr. Cooper!
You all aren’t thinking big enough. If you have 32 teams split into 4 divisions of 8 then you could play all the other teams in your division twice for a total of 14 games and all the other teams once for another 24 games giving a total league schedule of 38 games.
Northzax-
I like that better. I hope MLS is planning on something like that. I think it should definitely be strictly regional though.
If there is ever an NY2 team, they should be in the same division as RBNY/DC/Philly/N.E. That would be crazy.
-Mike
Al17, I can’t answer why they are not building in MO, other than to opine transportation, taxes, land, was better suited.
Having said that, I don’t think there is a big divide for St Louis people and Illinois side people traveling to the other side of the river, as there might be in other states.
Can someone in St. Louis explain to my why this team can’t actually play in St. Louis?
Collinsville is like the equivalent of my Fire playing in Bridgeview and in this case in Illinois and not event in Missouri, so the great state of Illinois would be the 3rd state to have two teams behind both California and Texas. This team should be playing near downtown St. Louis. Will the metro (St. Louis version of the el but much, much nicer than our thing in Chicago) run to the stadium in Collinsville?
If baseball is involved, does that mean Conway will be re-instated with back pay? Not that any of those home run records were set with … uh … “assistance”, or anything …
Love the ideas on the future of Soccer in the US (and Canada), with the number of teams and scheduling. Very forward thinking in trying to develop a league that will serve 2/3’s of a continent with 333 million people–how can we limit our top league to just 20 teams as this sport grows here? Unbalanced schedules, conferences, etc. great stuff.
As for Pujols, I think the SSS stadium and other owners have more of an impact.
St louis never drew crowds in the NASL and i expect the same again. Kansas City redux. What a waste.
Sonicdeathmonkey,
You’re right, I should have rephrased it from SSS to a stadium that the MLS thinks is suitable to host soccer. This actually might not be a SSS but some venue like Houston’s etc. However, I do think if a city has firm committed plans for a SSS that it definitely puts them a leg up on a city that does not, all other things being equal. It think Seattle had enough other things going for it and the Seattle Stadium was “close enough” that the MLS was willing to overlook that.
RPH, lol. It WAS a jolt!
Also, think of Houston’s boxer and Seattle’s actor.
Tkebh979–so, what are your thoughts, as majority owner of the newly proposed StL franchise? 😉 Nice points, all laid out. Thanks.
Actually, I do have a question: other than youth participation, what factors point to a solid Professional fanbase? I thought some of the issues in recent years is that soccer moms, dads, and kids haven’t made the great fans that everybody hoped for.
SonicDeathMonkey–yeah, it is not a SSS (Qwest), but it is owned by the Sounders’ owner, and they get the all important revenue. Hope the field looks better than Foxboro.
plus, of course, by the time we get to 20, we are likely to have three teams in Canada, so you could argue to FIFA that the actual number should be only the teams in the US, plus the teams in Canada.
I think a strict division structure could be very interesting, actually. put the Revs, Red Bulls, Philly and DC and say, Miami or Columbus, in a division of six. you play an unbalanced three against your own division, a straight home and home against the other division in your conference and a home and home against one of the two divisions in the other conference. with 24 teams, that makes a 35 game schedule. western conference teams would play each eastern conference team every other year in league play. top four go to a playoff system I am still thinking about.
since, say, NYRB would only play Seattle every two years in the regular season, there would be time for rivalries and bad blood to build up, and if they met in the Open Cup, they might take it more seriously.
oh, and on topic? Pujols adds nothing really.
BWL-
Yes, Collinsville is at the confluence of 5 interstate highways (though two are combined I55-I70). Though traffic in StL is not devastating (though it’s currently difficult with I-64 repairs on the MO side), it is only about 7-8 minutes from downtown StL to the proposed and approved SSS site. Distance comparisons to SSS’s in Carson, Frisco, or Bridgeview are not accurate in the StL SSS case.
A couple things to consider regarding StL’s bid:
1) Revenue-controlled SSS with surrounding retail and residential TIF district already approved. All that remains for construction to begin is a green light from MLS.
2) Aligned youth development program. StL Soccer United has already joined the three top youth clubs in the StL area under its banner. Youth soccer participation in StL is very high, and this move consolidates a large, competitive portion of the market under the prospective club banner
3) WPS team under the same prospective club banner.
4) Substantial, historically rooted fan base and high overall interest in soccer.
5) Finally, a set of investors that meet MLS’s standards for worth. As fewer and fewer reports about the StL bid mention a lacking ownership group, I assume that this issue, the main one facing the bid has been mitigated.
The addition of Pujols (of Dominican descent who played HS and College ball in KC) to the ownership group is nice icing on the cake and a good PR move akin the Mr. Nash joining the team in Vancouver. Will Pujols bring the same level of financing to the table as the other three unknown investors? I would imagine not, but it’s a nice club to have in the bag.
Not to beat a dead horse Hincha, but number 1 on your list (SSS guarantee) went out the window the day the league let Seattle in. Everybody keeps saying Miami is a done deal, and they want to play in a football stadium with turf. Just sayin’.
To paraphrase Chris Rock; Albert Pujols is rich. The guy who signs his checks is wealthy.
Wealthy guys own professional teams, rich guys own minor league teams. When Pujol’s boss announces he’s investing, then St. Louis moves to the front of the list. In the meantime, Pujols is window dressing.
Very interesting development. Miami still has to be the front runner however, and even with a improved investment group, I’m not sold on St. Louis. The one major advantage Montreal still has over St. Louis is a strong and proven fan base. This is still a question mark in STL, and in my opinion, is what keeps Montreal holding onto the 2nd expansion bid.
I wouldn’t mind seeing MLS grant 3 expansion bids. Not sure if the talent pool can take 5 new teams in three years, but with Barca Miami wanting to get started in 2010, perhaps St. Louis and Montreal can start in 2011?
Just because Pujols said “I’m gonna do something CRAZY!” when asked how he would celebrate becoming MVP doesn’t mean that he’s planning on investing his money in a St. Louis soccer team.
Sooo. St. Louis was looking for a token minority/latin as one of the faces of their ownership. Eh it can’t hurt. I’m available just in case they need a second.
Thanks for the explanation Hincha Tim.
Dave,
I was thinking the same thing. Western league teams would never play eastern league teams except in the playoffs and open cup. I think it would make the playoffs pretty cool. Especially, if they added a mixed (eastern and western) groups stage. It would also reduce cross country traveling for teams.
Maybe this is MLS’s plan? Most American sports set up this way (with the exception of groups stage).
-Mike
The only thing that Pujols adds is that St Louis baseball writers will now know that St Louis is bidding on a team. At least Steve Nash has a very public soccer background as a player & supporter.
I’m calling St. Louis and Montreal for 2011
Yeah, I got a little freaked about by the picture of a baseball player on my favorite soccer website. That could set me back years.
worst post ever
Hincha Tim–thanks for the team/games info
Mark Vanni–from what I remember, Collisville is smack in the middle of 3 or 4 interstate roads, and avoids the potential log jam of the heart of St. Louis. People (with money) from West County (St. Louis) can come from the north and the south, all leading to Collinsville. Other than that, I have no clue why they picked the site. More than likely tax reasons or good land price. Having it there would pull from Central Illinois (Springfield) pretty easily, too.
Whoops, you beat me to it!
To get around the scheduling reason for limiting leagues to 20 teams, does anyone think it would be viable to divide the league into divisions like Major League Baseball?
You could have 40 teams in two conferences with almost the same number of matches as a single table and resulting schedule of 20 teams.
I know this is far, far in the future but it may be the answer for getting around FIFA’s reasoning.
MikeMike,
The 20 team limit by FIFA is really probably predicated on the fact that FIFA doesn’t want domestic leagues playing more than 38 league games plus tournaments, so there is time for international fixtures. If you have a single table playing home and away, this would limit a league to 20 teams.
However, if a league (like the MLS) was split into conferences with an unbalanced schedule (say home and away for teams in your conference and just 1 game with teams out of your conference) you could have a league with more teams than 20 that would still fit under the 38 game/season rule. Under a 2 conference system with this set up you could have up to 26 teams split into 2 conferences of 13. A team would play the other 12 teams in its conference twice (24 games) and the 13 teams in the other conference once (13 games, for a total of 37 games).
So I don’t think the FIFA “rule” (from what I hear its not a rule but a wish) is an obstacle to expanding past 20 for the MLS (whether this is advisable with dilution of talent issues etc is another issue).
He should have a Gold Glove this year too.
I don’t know if it propels St. Louis to the front, but it does help legitimize it with non-soccer fans and give the ownership group a nice face. Personally, I still believe the FC Barcelona-backed Miami bid along with Montreal are the frontrunners.
I’m increasingly of the belief that for a team to succeed it should have a stadium in an urban environment. I admit I don’t know much about Collinsville, but it sounds like its far out the suburbs. Living currently in San Francisco, I know that I tend to make it out to random events just because they are close by, even if it sparks my interest only a little. I know others are like me and this, in my opinion, makes Portland a frontrunner for one of the slots.
Bluewhitelion,
You summed it up very well. From what I’ve heard (and I think it’s a very good idea for the MLS to do this) the MLA are demanding that all the prospective cities come up with advance season tickets sales, either guaranteed or some sort of money put forth to see what concrete core interest there is in the community for supporting the teams. So from what I see the MLS is considering (in no particular order of importance):
1) SSS guarantee
2) Ownership strength
3) Proven fan support (measured by how many advance season ticket guarantees have been sold).
I’m sure in there, but far less important is geographical balance which will be used more as a tiebreaker in a close call. I think your assessment on who are the frontrunners is probably close to the mark depending on advance season ticket sales. I read somewhere that Miami group had 15,000 pledged season ticket holders (which I find hard to believe). If this is the case, though, and they get a suitable stadium, I think Miami has the momentum going for it.
I had the same thought, Dave. The only problem there lies in the seeming unwillingness of the league to increase the salary cap in a significant way, as well as the talent pool being stretched even further.
Agree with David. Just putting an athlete with a club doesn’t make it a front runner. He’s only an athlete. Unless he has ownership experience (and a profitable one) I wouldn’t get my hopes up St. Louis fans.
Hey it can’t hurt him involved in MLS, period. Guy’s a big name in sports & entertainment. Is he Venezuelan? That would explain his futbol roots.
It does legitimize the MLS a little bit in the eyes of anti-soccer fan boys and stupid ESPN media.
Semi related question-
I remember hearing that FIFA will only allow 20 teams in top division soccer per country/league. Does anybody know anything about this?
-Mike
I think Pulos helps their bid because Cooper had garnered a lot of respect for his efforts. He just needed more financial backing.
I would love to see more teams added combined with a higher salary cap and even a second DP slot. I think the league is ready to take a calculated risk in trying to attract and keep better players.
Dave — then you have an uneven number of teams in 2011, so you probably have to contemplate adding an 20th team in 2012. Then we’ve diluted the talent level to the point that even I would have a shot of making a roster. So…great idea, I’m all for it.
Love me some Pujols and the Cards are my team, I hope it has a positive effect.
Wow, so why doesn’t the league just say screw it and add more than two teams? If you have three great groups than just change the rules.
WOW.
Does that mean that St Louis’ players WON’T wear socks while playing?
They will be sponsored by Chiquita, cuz of the bananas.
I think it is nice news, but not sure how it puts them up at the top automatically. Having a stadium deal in Collinsville is very important, and I suppose ownership stability is too. I know little about Pujols’ financial viability (other than he is a nicely paid star!).
St. Louis is a great soccer city, it remains to be seen how the team would be supported by fans. KC isn’t fantastic, and not too far away you have Chicago. Do they siphon off fans from one of those two?
How is St. Louis better than Portland? Hasn’t the St. Louis ownership been a sticking point so far? Is Portland better in that regard? And they have a great fan base, and would put a team closer to Seattle.
Montreal seems (by association and cultural rivalry) to be a lock concerning instant fan base and rabid rivalry with Toronto.
And Barcelona in Miami is extremely attractive. In my view, the lone sticking point is not the “failed Fusion experiment” or the “bad sports town” image, but it’s potential SSS deal. If they can’t lock that in for the ’11 bid (not meaning built, but promised/planned/approved by authorities/financed) then MLS might hold off. Winner: Montreal, then either St. Louis or Portland.
How does having a multi-millionaire owner with not much more than a high school education and no background in running a sports or business organisation trump other ownership groups with billionaire owners with a proven track record either in professional sports or in business?
Even amongst athletes how does Pujols bring more clout to St. Louis’ bid than say Steve Nash would bring to Vancouver’s? This is nothing more than a PR front designed to make their bid more significant than it really is.
I still believe Miami is the front runner just because of the Barcelona backing but this puts St. Louis at a very close second. Isn’t the Vancouver ownership deal riffled with star power to though?
As long as they don’t name the expansion team the CARDINALS then i’m fine with this.