Photo by ISIphotos.com
It was an ugly loss, but one you came away feeling didn't have to happen.
The U.S. Under-20 national team's 3-0 loss to Germany was never really competitive, at least in the sense that the Americans never did look like a team capable of threatening. The Germans were organized and efficient, but hardly a team who looked intent on dominating. No, it was the United States which helped Germany post such a resounding result, with its combination of defensive lapses, unforced turnovers and lack of organization.
While you can always blame the struggles of a youth team, at least in part, on jitters or even just a bad game, but Saturday's match stood out because of head coach Thomas Rongen's decision to employ a 4-3-3 formation and bench several U-20 regulars in favor of some untested players.
Brian Ownby and Dillon Powers hadn't been regulars on the U-20 side, and neither was a starter in the qualifying tournament, but both earned starts vs. Germany and each played a part in the loss getting out of hand.
It was Ownby who was beaten on a run from midfield, only to compound the error by committing a foul with a clumsy tackle in the penalty area. And it was Powers who lost his mark on a corner kick, thus giving German captain Florian Jungwirth a clear look to bury Germany's third goal.
It is easy to blame Ownby and Powers for their mistakes, but they were simply two young and inexperienced players thrust onto an international stage against a tough opponent. The blame should fall to Rongen, who passed on players such as Dilly Duka, Bryan Arguez and Peri Marosevic in favor of players he decided were in better form.
Yes, injuries played a part in Rongen's decisions, and a reason why Chivas USA's Gerson Mayen went from not even on the team to starting at right back, but the struggles of the defense were attributable, at least in part, to the struggles of a midfield Rongen constructed.
It shouldn't be assumed that a different U.S. lineup beats Germany, and Rongen knows more than most about the form and fitness of his players, but when a coach plays new players over more established players in a major tournament, and his team loses, blame will follow.
Perhaps it wouldn't have mattered what American midfield played on Saturday, the Germans are a strong team even without the handful of stars it was unable to field for the Under-20 World Cup, but while a loss may have been inevitable, a 3-0 loss dents the U.S. chances of being one of the third-place teams to progress to the knockout rounds.
This team can't really think that far ahead. A match against a tough Cameroon team awaits on Tuesday, and Rongen will be left with little choice but to play the players that got the team to Egypt, because the players he thought were on top form clearly aren't.
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Some more thoughts on USA-Germany:
The third goal started on a counterattack but if you want to place specific blame you can point to Gale Agbossoumonde, who floated back during the counter and found no man to mark. While that, in itself, isn't a crime, he wound up dropping back far enough to keep Manuel Schaeffler on-side as he made a run from the far flank. The initial replay made it look as though Schaeffler was Ike Opara's responsibility, but further inspection shows that Opara was marking Richard Sukuta-Pasowhen Schaeffler came streaking in from behind for Germany's third goal.
Mikkel Diskerud is skillful and has good ideas, but he needs to be partnered in central midfield with players who can do the heavy lifting and win the possession battle. A central midfield trio of Diskerud, Arguez and Duka to go with Jared Jeffrey would have been a better bet against Germany and is a group we should see vs. Cameroon.
Other bright spots? Jared Jeffrey and Tony Taylor showed glimpses, as did Brek Shea, who was extremely active, even if he did get caught up in trying to beat double-teams at times.
Causes for concern? I'm not convinced Agbossoumonde is a centerback. He's a much more capable fullback. If Kyle Daviesis healthy, he should probably get the nod in central defense alongside Opara, who I thought did well despite some questionable foul calls against him early on.
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On to MLS, where Shalrie Josephhas all but locked up SBI's vote for MLS MVP. Yes, there are players who have scored more goals and delivered more assists, but this year Joseph has had a season where his MVP candidacy must finally be taken seriously.
Earlier in the season, when injuries had ravaged New England's forward crop, Joseph stepped in and played forward, scoring goals and setting up teammates. Since moving back into central midfield, Joseph has returned to his dominating self, but he has continued to find the net. He scored game-winning goals against Seattle twice in a five-month span and has also kept the assists coming. After his two-goal effort in New England's 2-1 comeback win vs. Seattle, Joseph now has eight goals and eight assists.
If you want to know how important Joseph is to New England, consider this. The Revs have lost just one match since he returned from a knee injury in mid-July in matches where Joseph plays more than 25 minutes (6-1-2). The two matches missing from that equation were a loss to KC (where he received a highly-questionable red card early in the first half) and to Chivas USA (with Joseph serving his suspension.
There are plenty of candidates for MVP, including Omar Cummings, Stuart Holden, Dwayne DeRosario, Fredy Montero, Zach Thornton and Guillermo Barros Schelotto, but right now our vote goes to Joseph, who is a candidate every year but has made perhaps his strongest case this season.
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San Jose's 2-1 victory against D.C. United at RFK Stadium on Sunday snapped a 20-match regular season road win-less streak. The Earthquakes hadn't won on the road in 477 days. That is the second longest such streak. The longest? The Red Bulls' current 25-match regular season road win-less streak. The Red Bulls travel to San Jose this weekend.
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What did you think of the U.S. Under-20 team's performance on Saturday? Think some lineup changes can help the Americans beat Cameroon? Agree with our pick of Shalrie Joseph for MVP? Think the Red Bulls will win a road game this year?
Share your thoughts below.
i agree with Matt up there about Joseph for MVP over GBS, and im also a former columbus native-crew fan.
goalie of the year tho belongs to one of my new adopted team though, donovan ricketts
Omar Cummings!
the U20s lost to Germany because they kept passing to the wrong team. they gotta work on that
Ives
– do u think stu is more of an mvp candidate than davis? Second I’m posting this from my bb storm. Does sbi take forever to load on your bb?
(SBI-Probably not. Davis probably edges ahead after that performance against RSL. Not sure if either is in the Top three. As for SBI loading on my BB, I have a storm and it loads fine.
Thank you, Ives!
Two years ago, I questioned Rongen’s managerial ability and was completely ripped apart. I was told, “This is the guy who beat Brazil and took us to the Quarters, and you want to replace him?”
Rongen is rigid about the formation he plays. He preaches discipline and organization, and his teams rarely show either. His substitutions are often identical from game-to-game, regardless of varying circumstances. Furthermore, he doesn’t know how to use substitutions to swing the game in his team’s favor (unless you consider defender for defender in the 85th minute of a 1-1 knockout game a game-changing move). This guy is a joker. I like what I’ve seen and heard from Wilmer Cabrera so far. I think it’s time to find another like him to put in charge of the U-20s (or give him the promotion).
Wrongen. Agree or disagree with the opinion behind it, but that’s a clever one.
agree wit tony too
danny cruz is another that could have been involved and help but rongen didnt put in the game
“Yes, bad teams on bad streaks you are welcome. – signed washington DC sports teams.” Posted by: Jake
“Red Bull break the streak this weekend. Count on it.” Posted by: David
@ Jake, Quakes are 3-2-2 since the allstar break- not a bad streak, though i can’t argue with the bad team part.
@ David, well we’ll see won’t we? we owe you guys some payback.
I have to agree with Tony, a healthy Williams, Wallace and Davies probably means a better scoreline
i’m a little pissed. a 4-3-3?! when was the last time we played a 4-3-3 in a competitive match with this team? just because they trained with it for two weeks doesn’t mean it’ll work against top flight competition in a big tournament. what did we employ when we played egypt recently– i think mix scored a goal in a win? i don’t know why rongen continually shoots himself and our team in both feet. typical over-mgmt; its important to get points in the first game of a group stage, so just put our best players on the field. make subs when you have to.
actually dont know about joseph as MVP, but….u-20’s spot on
my MVP is brad davis……hey i mean u picked joseph
btw, totally agree with ives
DC got booed pretty good after the game yesterday.
I’m not a fan of the knee-jerk “fire the coach” mantra that is normally shouted after a US (senior or youth) loss.
However, I agree that alot of the blame on this recent loss by the U-20s is largely Rongen’s fault. His headstrong decision to bring amateurs over professionals is questionable at best. Even the pros he did bring was more because of injuries. I understand that we are somewhat at a disadvantage because of the burgeoning youth setup here in the US, but this should still be a squad of pros sprinkled with exceptional college players, not the other way around.
Also, I will always blame Rongen for the Subotic fiasco.
The only bright spot that can be taken is that this will force US Soccer to fire Rongen.
i agree frank……but also if you look st it we didnt even call up the best squad to the cup and didnt start the best on top of that……i said this statemet earlier,
“u-20’s like anthony wallace, sam and greg garza, freddy adu, jozy altidore, and vincenzo bernardo that were not called up showing that there is still alot of skill in our future”
he didnt start arguez, marosevic, duka, and williams and put gerson mayen and kyle davies in the wrong positions
rongen has always had a careeer of odd decisions, im 17 and he comes and trains my college showcase team in Florida every now and then(coerver coaching), if i didnt know anything about the U-20’s or rongen i would have never thought he would be the US u-20’s coach….hes nothing special and quite frankly bro he dont deserve it, dont tell him i said that lol….ive had way better training from the brits over from west brom
“You are assuming that because the German players are on better known teams, they are more experienced?”
Yes. Who would you rather have developing your future national team? Example A or B.
If you think otherwise, no worries, that’s your opinion.
“Can you please provide the number of competitive matches for each squad?”
Why? That isn’t my point about development. It’s about quality not quantity. Knock yourself out though, I’d love to see those numbers as well. Just remember, they’re playing against other high level clubs, not Rutgers.
Green, you sound like an arrogant jerk to be honest. We all saw Germany beat us, but I can’t say I was all that impressed with them. I personally think that a US team with a healthy Anthony Wallace and Sheanon Williams, and Duka and ARguez instead of Powers and Ownby, has a much better game. Heck, Germany didn’t even do much for the first 30 minutes of the second half. You act like they destroyed us with amazing soccer.
Nigeria are a quality side — they would destroy the US I bet.
Were the first two posts really that unreasonable and argumentative?
(SBI-There was definitely some smugness about them. You definitely missed the point of some of my comments, which is why I pointed out the things I pointed out. You went a bit overboard in proving to nobody in particular that Germany has more talent than the USA.)
Green: “Let’s see. . . who exactly is our experienced squad?”
You are assuming that because the German players are on better known teams, they are more experienced? Can you please provide the number of competitive matches for each squad?
I think the u-20 world cup is more of a learning experience for the younger players, and while it would be nice to win I don’t see why we cannot play less experienced players at times. There is only one way to get experience and only one way for the coach to truly see how in form certain players are.
I also think it is quite hypocritical for any person on here who believes that those inexperienced kids shouldn’t have started, but want holden in important games for the u.s. You just never know till you try so i am not going to blame the coach on this one. Especially when mistakes like those are fairly common place at every level, except maybe that one kid keeping the german player onside that was ridiculous.
Youth soccer development is a very complex topic. Our backline was unable to handle the ball and use the midfielders appropriately to create plays.
We looked nervous, partially for playing Germany, partially for being the first match of a World Cup. It’s hard to play good soccer when your players don’t feel comfortable on the ball.
Germany is a good team who has a way of making mediocre players look worse. We had no chance on this one. Let’s see how the boys react for the game against Cameroon.
I think Andrew should win the MVP award for the most times he has pissed off Ives. I am not a huge U20 follower so I am not speaking from great wisdom here but when I saw the lineups on Saturday even I noticed that Rongen left out some of the more “star” players from the squad. HOpe he fixes that by Tuesday!!!!
(SBI-Who’s pissed?)
Nigeria doing everything except put the ball in the net vs. Spain.
Why can’t ESPN360 put the score and/or time on the screen?! Would that be too much to ask? Watching this match, but I don’t know how much time has gone by until the commentator randomly announces the score and time.
Red Bull break the streak this weekend. Count on it.
Chad Marshall for MVP! 🙂
Arguing?
Pounding fists?
OK dude.
My point was, we aren’t really experienced, so how could we expect to match up to a truly experienced team? Again, no shame in losing to Germany.
We shouldn’t, however, start thinking that if the team that got us here played (playing against who exactly?) it would have fared any different.
That’s it.
(SBI-See, this is a much more reasonably’worded argument. But again, nobody is saying that the team would have definitely done better, but at least we would have had a better sense of how the team’s stack up. You’re whole “it wouldn’t have mattered because germany would have dominated regardless” attitude is a bit much. That’s all I’m saying Andrew, which is why I had to bust your chops a bit.)
Well it depends how you define ‘MVP’ – is it the player of the year (best player), or the player whose individual performances mean the most, and make the most difference, to their team. I think the best player is probably Schelotto; but no one has meant more to their team this season than Shalrie has. Yet again the Revs have been battling injuries this year. We knew Shalrie was outstanding before this, and how influential in the game he was, but this year he’s had to step up even further and take the team on his back to keep them in the fight. I didn’t think it was possible but this year has made me admire his game even more. It still amazes me that no teams from abroad have made a real offer for his services over the years (besides that derisory offer by Celtic). Look at those SuperLiga games last year – those Mexican teams, including Pachuca, could not get through Shalrie and gave up going through the middle of the field entirely for the rest of the game.
I second the voting for Shalrie Joseph. I’ve only watched 3 or 4 New England games this year and each time he just sticks out. Of course, I have to ask myself… “What the heck is he doing in this league?” GBS has great moments, Beckham has good games, DeRo is certainly impressive, but no one dominates games the way Shalrie Joseph does. It’s like he gives the Revs an extra man advantage.
in that picture the angle is lined up just right so that the player the picture is focusing on looks like a woman with his long hair.
as a RBNY fan i’d say Joseph deserves it most as well. the guy is hands down the best midfielder in the league. he owns the middle of the park.
its shocking how he’s not in europe already
whatagame,
that must be what the kids learn at the U.S. Soccer academy because they do it at every level of U.S. Soccer. they have no clue that defenders must be able to play out of trouble and get the attack started. instead, we love clumsy oafs who are good at heading the ball, keeping a strait back line and fouling.
does it even matter who the U.S. manager is? USSF must just have one CPU they use for every manager in the system. when Bob Bradley isn’t using it they take the chip out of his brain and plug it into Rongen’s.
Let’s see. . . who exactly is our experienced squad?
This. . .
Manchester Utd. (ENG)
Eintracht Frankfurt (GER)
Borussia Dortmund (GER)
Munich 1860 (GER)
Bayer Leverkusen (GER)
Werder Bremen (GER)
Ahlen (GER)
Schalke 04 (GER)
Hamburger SV (GER)
Bayern Munich (GER)
Greuther Fuerth (GER)
Kayserispor (TUR)
Bursaspor (TUR)
VfB Stuttgart (GER)
Hamburger SV (GER)
Arminia Bielefeld (GER)
or this
Central Florida (USA)
Miami FC (USA)
Univ. Notre Dame (USA)
no club affiliation (UNK)
Houston Dynamo (USA)
FC Dallas (USA)
Miami FC (USA)
Club Brugge (BEL)
Univ. Rutgers (USA)
Stabaek (NOR)
UCLA (USA)
Chivas USA (USA)
Univ. Virginia (USA)
Wake Forest (USA)
Hertha Berlin (GER)
So when I said I’m watching Pros vs. Joes I wasn’t kidding.
Yeah, we should of put our experienced team in. Oh, wait.
(SBI-Andrew, why are you trying to argue a point nobody is arguing against? My point, and I think most folks can figure it out, is that if the USA was going to give Germany a test, it probably should have done so with the players who actually got the USA into this tournament. I’m not sure how that’s far-fetched to say, unless you think Germany was untouchable on Saturday and played amazing soccer (which apparently you do).
And since you felt compelled to provide club lists to make a point nobody was arguing, how about you go find the affiliations for the Brazil and USA teams in the 2007 Under-20 World Cup when the USA beat Brazil.)
yea…..it wasnt a good performance but everybody needs to take it easy on the U-20’s….rongen is the one to blame in the end for starting players like powers and ownby….we still have two games left against no where near difficult as germany opponents, cameroon and korea…..its only one game, lets wait until after the 2nd game to really go up in arms about youth devlopment….especially when there are u-20’s like anthony wallace, sam and greg garza, freddy adu, jozy altidore, and vincenzo bernardo that were not called up showing that there is still alot of skill in our future
It’s only one game, but I’m glad we have two games to get it right. Ives hit all the points on the head specially about putting an inexperienced team.
Before I clicked the link, I was thinking “I bet he’s not thinking Shalrie,” but i’m glad you are. I’ve seen him kill my Sounders too many times. Without him, that team is on the outside looking in.
As a Crew fan I tend to campaign for GBS for MVP. He was the obvious choice last year, and there are very few players in the league more exciting with the ball at their feet. This year, however, the Crew have shown all season that they can win without him. Shalrie Joseph is the catalyst of the Revs and no player in the league this year has been more vital to the successes of their team.
Regarding the U-20’s, who is in charge of organizing the backline? Two years ago and again this time around, we have guys who when they gain possession of the ball fail to seize the open space in front of them. Instead they make lateral passes to each other (under no pressure) until one of them elects to boot the ball forward – usually to the other team which is hanging back and begins a counter-attack. I was screaming at the TV – “take it forward! Draw some of their guys towards you to create some open spaces for the midfielders to run in but instead they just play “bootitforward” ball.
Are these tactics they are told to follow or do they just lack imagination?
I hope that the U-20s turn it around, because their performance Saturday morning was enough to turn my stomach.
GBS for MVP.
Ives,
I was wondering if you think that this game goes to show anything about the quality of college vs. pro players (even if it is just riding the bench for MLS teams)?
(SBI-I think way too many people are trying to make one match in a youth tournament mean way too many things. Once the tournament is over, and we have three games to look at as a sample size, then I believe much more can be discerned from this tournament. One game, against a tough opponent, isn’t enough of a sample to really analyze.)
Yes, bad teams on bad streaks you are welcome.
– signed washington DC sports teams.
Rongen… just as soon as I start to take him seriously.
Ives, do you feel a team has to make the playoffs for their best player to have a shot at being MVP? Just curious.
(SBI-Not necessarily, but if two players are close, the one who has his team in the playoffs will get the edge. Someone racking up goals when their team is already out of the race probably won’t get my vote over someone who has been leading his team to victories throughout the season.)
I like the fire with which Mikkel Diskerud plays. Unfortunately he is still supposed to be up in the air over which team he will play for at the adult level (US or Norway). We will pobably have until the Euro qualifiers two years from now to lock him up before Norway gives him an invite to a meaningful full national team contest (IF Norway squeezes into a playoff spot for the WC from Europe he will not be there). The US got real lucky that Norway was in the smallest group of UEFA qualifying for the WC, as this way they wound up with two less games–had they already been eliminated with two games to go you could see Norway locking him up for the future, thankfully that didn’t happen.
Like I posted in the game day post, there’s no shame in losing to Germany.
We were lucky it wasn’t 3-0 BEFORE the PK was given.
If you can’t see the difference between Germany’s youth program and ours, well that’s your opinion. To say that we somehow “helped Germany post such a resounding result” is well, comical to be honest. We were never going to win this game.
From the top down, that program blows ours away, and it showed on the field. No excuses please. Let’s be honest here, we were outclassed.
(SBI-Nobody said Germany wasn’t good Andrew, and NOBODY tried to say the USA youth system is on par with Germanys (don’t you love when people invent things?) but the point was that on that day and in that particualr match, the Americans did the Germans work for them with silly decisions and unforced turnovers. Not saying USA wins under any circumstances, but the scoreline on that day, at least with respect to the three goals scored, were as much a product of American blunders as German dominance.)
Thank you for recognizing Shalrie’s importance to the Revolution. If we make the playoffs, he’ll be the reason, not just for the goals, but for his work in midfield.
Wrongen strikes again.
We had top 4 talent at the 2007 U20 and went out with a wimper after beating Brazil. Dude sucks the life out of our youngsters.
the U20s were unable to string together successful passes. that was the biggest cause of the loss.
i suspect the U20’s will show better in up coming matches, but that was a game we should have performed better. disappointing with some glimpses of quality
Honestly, I’m gonna have to throw my vote in for Dwayne De Rosario as MVP. He’s single-handedly picked TFC up on his back and dragged them into the playoff race this year. He’s been exceptional.