By SBI SOCCER
Throughout Jurgen Klinsmann’s tenure as U.S. Men’s National Team head coach has had plenty of highs and lows. However, recent struggles have drawn some to wonder just how long that tenure may last.
After bombing out of this summer’s Gold Cup, Klinsmann and the U.S. must now face Mexico in Saturday’s CONCACAF Cup, a game that essentially serves as one final chance to salvage the 2015 campaign. If the USMNT loses to Mexico, the team would lose its chance to compete in the 2017 Confederations Cup, and perhaps just as importantly, the Americans would lose bragging rights in the rivalry that matters most to its fans.
USMNT legend Landon Donovan let his opinion be known Tuesday, stating that Klinsmann should be held accountable if the U.S. loses. Throughout his tenure, Klinsmann has called for his players to be held accountable for mistakes, and Donovan believes Klinsmann should be held to the same tough standards as his players.
Donovan’s comments raised an interesting question. Should Klinsmann be fired if the U.S. loses to Mexico? The reality is U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati has already gone on record saying Klinsmann’s job in safe, but Donovan’s comments make you wonder just how many people share his opinion.
Which leads us to the SBI Question of the Day. Do you think Klinsmann should be fired if the U.S. loses to Mexico on Saturday?
Cast your vote after the jump:
[polldaddy poll=9113966]
How did you vote? What did you think of Donovan’s comments? Think U.S. Soccer might change its mind of Mexico wins big on Saturday?
Share your thoughts beow.
I voted yes. Why? because if he loses, then JK has made absolutely no tangible improvement versus Bob Bradley, with substantially worse player relations (even factoring out LD) and more opaque personnel decisions. And if World Cup Round of 16/Gold Cup champs 50% of the time/Winning the hex is at or near our ceiling as a national team, then I would rather have Bob Bradley.
If you didn’t notice the massive improvements made last cycle than you either weren’t watching during the Coach Bob years or won’t paying close enough attention. No, I’m not referring to the fact we had a better record despite a tougher schedule, or the fact that our last World Cup performance was better than 2010’s, I’m talking about the fact that we learned how to string more than two passes together at a time.
Who do you people think that we could REALISTICALLY hire that could do a better job than Klinsmann? Not Brendan Rogers, not Jurgen Klopp, not Jose Mourinho, I’m talking about managers that would actually seriously consider managing a CONCACAF team.
If you people think that Sigi Schmid or Jason Kreis would do a better job, you better go back to watching baseball.
Gulati is too stupid to fire Jurgen, so this is merely a hypothetical discussion.
Look at the record. If anything the US has over-achieved at the WC. If you consider the size of the professional soccer program in the country and the success at the WC, the US under both Bruce and Bob did really well, perhaps as well as the US is likely to do for the foreseeable future. So what does that tell us — find a coach, probably American, who is comfortable working with American players, who stresses organization, fitness and a good work rate, who has experience assembling a winning combination from the pool of available players (as college coaches do, and many professional coaches do not)…
I suspect that various Americans could fit the bill — Caleb Porter? Kreis? Kinnear? If USSF were not run by simpletons, I am sure they could find at least strong candidate.
Caleb Porter??? Are you serious??? Your suggestion is hiring someone with less than three years of professional experience, the last two of which were failures (there’s a good chance he’ll be canned after the season), oh and the last time he was involved in the national team setup it was one the worst debacles in recent US youth team history…I don’t even know what to say.
Kreis is a good MLS coach but look at him now he is in charge of a team that are not his guys. It’s the same when you’re an NT manager. MLS is not the same as the international level, and we have no idea how Kreis would do.
The “familiarity” argument is bogus because Klinsmann has been living in the US for years and has coached the USNT for four years. He’s even been more pro-MLS than Bob and Bruce were, not to mention played the first college and second division players in more than decade (one is now playing in Liga MX, the other is now one of our hottest prospects).
After the successes of last cycle, firing Klinsmann for a few bad games is nothing short of ridiculous, especially considering the complete lack of an alternative.
Haven’t I told you about your tone? If you want to be treated with respect, you need to treat others with respect.
When I say it out loud I’m really nice, it’s just that it comes off as disrespectful in writing.
Last time I checked Jurgen’s team did only as well as Bob’s in the WC and not as well as Bruce’s. So “winningest” must mean something different in your parallel universe.
Would some other coach have done as well or better? Lacking some sort of time machine, we have to put that in the unknowable category.
What does Jurgen’s alleged wish to coach the US rather than Germany tell us? That’s a wonderful question. My response is that he is a megalomaniac who was looking for a place where he was free to pontificate without fear of contradiction. His problem was that Germans don’t have any sort of inferiority complex when it comes to soccer. Some Americans, on the other hand, are apt to believe that any foreigner knows more about soccer than they do. Certainly the current management of USSF falls into that category.
Jurgen Klinsmann set the record for the best winning percentage of any USNT manager in history last cycle. And this was despite having much more difficulties and tougher CONCACAF opposition. I’d say that’s a pretty good definition of “winningest.” And last World Cup was much better than the one in 2010. We comfortably made it out of the Group of Death and were a Wondo away from beating Belgium and advancing to the quarterfinals. In South Africa it took a last second goal to get out of the easiest group in the tournament and then we lost to Ghana. More importantly, the quality of soccer was better than it ever has been for us (the 2013 Gold Cup, for example, where our B team played the most attractive soccer I have seen the USNT play in nearly two decades).
“Alleged?” You just probably weren’t watching soccer in 2006. Gulati turned him down in ’06, after he had turned down the German NT, and then he was hired at Bayern. And yes, having won the World Cup as a player and managed the German NT and Bayern (not to mention a very successful cycle last time with our team) makes him more qualified than anyone else in our coaching pool, or anyone else we could realistically hire. And I’d prefer someone living in the US who has always wanted to coach us than some European mercenary. But you probably would prefer Sigi Schmid, wouldn’t you?
The Cubs won last night. Does that make them the winningest post-season team in Chicago history?
For my money, the test of a national team coach is the WC and there Jurgen did only as well as Bradley did and less well than Arena.
One stint with a national team and one year in the German first division is a pretty thin resume — compared with coaches who have been working at it for decades and been successful at every level.
More important, we need not focus on resumes. We have seen the product of Jurgen’s labors — most recently the most embarrassing Gold Cup performance in many years, if not ever. It may be unfair, but “what have you done for me recently” is a big part of the picture.
If you think the World Cup is the only thing that matters than you must be someone who only tunes in once every four years. Moreover, if the Gold Cup doesn’t matter, than why should he be fired for a couple poor games there?
Your Cubs example is…pointless. Klinsmann over a three period had a better winning percentage than any coach in US history, which included our first ever win in the Azteca, for example. How is that some sort of anomaly?
The team was much better this World Cup than last World Cup. But if your only metric for evaluating a coach is how far we advance in the World Cup (without taking into account our opposition or how we played), than it sounds like you’re not watching very many games.
“The team was much better this World Cup than last World Cup.”
Can you provide any metric besides your own opinion to substantiate your assertion? 1 win, 2 losses, 1 draw is hardly a success. What is considered “much better”. Provide a metric to support your opinion.
“But if your only metric for evaluating a coach is how far we advance in the World Cup (without taking into account our opposition or how we played)”.
Let’s take a look at the opposition.
Ghana – Were more concerned about getting paid for rather than actually playing in the World Cup. Cash had to flown in on the eve of their final match of group play versus Portugal to get them to play. Sound like a focused team?
Portugal – With Cristiano Ronaldo demoted to human status due to injury. Highly dependent on a noticeably injured Ronaldo to provide many if not most of it’s attacking opportunities, Portugal proved to be a shadow of itself during the World Cup.
Germany – No explanation needed. No shame in being thoroughly dominated by the world champs.
So we beat a team more worried about money than performance. Drew against a Portugal team that was a shadow of itself. Got dominated by a German team as we should have (Belgium as well).
Oh, and we were outplayed and outpossessed throughout the tournament..
Is that “much better” than 2010?
Yeah, it is. We had the group of death. Ghana owns us and they played better against Germany than any team in the whole tournament.
Portugal, even without Ronaldo at 100%, is simply on a different level than we are. And if Bradley hadn’t coughed the ball up in the final seconds we would have won.
We almost tied Germany in the final minutes, one of the best national teams of all time.
And then we were a Wondo away from beating Belgium. We don’t have a single player that could have made their final 23 (except for maybe Howard as the third keeper). They are on a different planet than we are.
In 2010 we needed a last second goal to get out of one of the weakest groups in recent history. England was shockingly terrible. And then we lost to Ghana. Donovan came out and said it was because we were “tactically naive.”
We were much better last World Cup than in 2010, that much was obvious to everyone. We gained respect abroad than we never have had (something obvious to expats that maybe isn’t to people living in the US). “Round of 16, we played the same,” is just a ridiculous oversimplification that hints at not having been watching for a very long time.
Again, any metric’s to substantiate your claim of “much better” than in 2010?
No, because there is no metric to substantiate your claim.
Explain how we were “so much better” when we were out shot 92-41 in 4 matches. Against Germany we had 1 shot on goal. Yes, 1. “So much better”? We were out shot by 125% during the World Cup.
There’s a telling metric for you.
Oh, by the way…
In 2010, over 4 matches the USA out shot the opponents 69-60.
So in 2014, the USMNT gave up 53% more shots and took 40% less shots over the 4 matches.
Better?
so we’re surprised we had a better shot ratio against England, Slovenia, Algeria, and Ghana than Germany, Portugal, Ghana, and Belgium?
of those 92, 38 of them came from the Belgium game alone.
http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/39/76/91/56_0701_bel-usa_bel_playerstatistics_neutral.pdf
point is, put some context around these things and the picture is more focused. anyone who thought we would match, or beat, our shot ratio in the 2010 WC was living in a fantasy world.
…and anyone trying to argue that the USMNT was “much better” in 2014 than in 2010 is living in a fantasy world. There are no metrics or statistics to support that claim.
Please search and give us something other than your own Klinsmann-tinted opinion to support your claim. The statistics I just gave you overwhelmingly support the fact that the 2014 performance was not better than the 2010 performance.
Bryan,
Just to be fair, let’s throw out the Belgium match.
USMNT shots = 27
Opponents shots = 54
There, that’s better. Now we were only out shot by 100%.
Is that the context you were looking for?
Help me find an argument that will justify the claim that the USMNT was “much better” in 2014 than in 2010.
“…and anyone trying to argue that the USMNT was ‘much better’ in 2014 than in 2010 is living in a fantasy world.”
i would agree. that’s why i provided no opinion on the notion we played much better in 2014. all i did was state your statistics do not tell the whole story. i’m not sure how you missed that being the point i was making.
“Help me find an argument that will justify the claim that the USMNT was “much better” in 2014 than in 2010.”
no, i won’t because i don’t agree with it. but i also don’t agree with what you put out there as clear-cut evidence when there was no context provided around the difficulty of the opponents in 2014 compared to 2010.
Bryan…
I understand. Truthfully, when the draw came out, I along with everyone else viewed it as a very difficult group, if not the most difficult.
But as I have written somewhere on this thread, due to some of the distractions and Ronaldo’s injury I viewed the bracket as much weaker and very probable to get through. I felt that Germany was in a class by itself and the 2nd team through would get in by goal differential. Lucky for us it was the USMNT.
Was the 2014 group tougher? Strongly weighted by the presence of Germany, absolutely.
In the end, was it the “Group of Death”? Absolutely not.
Taking the strength of the groups into context plus the statistical facts that are undeniable, at best the performance of the 2014 USMNT was equal to that of the 2010 team.
Your argument is that we weren’t any better last World Cup because we didn’t get enough shots off against one of the best national teams of all time? Are you serious?
Our opposition was infinitely harder last World Cup than it was in 2010, and, thus, your “shots” argument holds no weight. We easily qualified out of the group of death (no, not Costa Rica’s group, England and Italy are a joke). We beat Ghana, the team that eliminated us the previous two tournaments in a row, should have beaten Portugal (if it wasn’t for Bradley’s mistake), almost tied Germany, one of the best national teams of all time, in the final minutes, and were a Wondo away from beating Belgium. These teams, aside from Ghana, are simply on a different planet than us. Tim Howard is the only guy on our team who maybe, just maybe, might be able to have been able to make one of those squads (Portugal). And let’s not forget that all tournament our best player (MB90) was going through one of the worst patches of form he’s had and we were missing our striker.
In 2010, our opposition was weak and we barely squeaked through thanks to the grit of the players rather than Coach Bob’s tactics (he got them wrong, usually, which is why we allowed early goals…even Donovan came out and said that we lost to Ghana because we were “tactically naive”).
We were clearly better in 2014 than in 2010. Everyone outside of the US thinks this. We were better in the run-up to that World Cup than we were during Coach Bob’s cycle. And we played better soccer. Under virtually every metric we were better. “We only made it to the round of 16” and “we didn’t have enough shots” are not serious arguments.
Soccer Fan…
lol…Your arguments of “we almost did this” or “if so and so had done that” are simply desperate attempts to deflect from the statistical facts.
Since you can only provide Klinsmann tinted opinion with no statistical evidence to support your weak “should have” “could have” argument I will have to withdrawal from this debate before the analytical beating I am giving you becomes too overwhelming and I start to look like a bully.
Be prepared to support your outlandish statements next time…lol.
Anyone that did not think we did a tremendous job in the 2014 World Cup has some seriously tinted glasses. Everyone outside of the US was amazed at how well we played (not the reaction we got in 2010). The people that don’t get this either haven’t been watching soccer for very long or are still mad that Donovan was left off the team.
Your metric is “round of 16,” and I’m pointing out that it’s more complicated than that. It’s a lot more complicated than the amount of shots taken, too.
Our opposition was infinitely harder in 2014 than it was in 2010, and not only did we qualify out of the group with ease, we were a Wondo away from making the quarterfinals. In 2010 we needed a last second goal to get out of one of the easiest WC groups in history, and then lost to Ghana. That was when we had Boca, LD, and Clint in their primes, too. We played a lot better in 2014 than we did in 2010. Pretty simple.
lol…Soccer Fan is like a little kid. “I have no facts but it is because I say it is!”
It’s not even fun any more smashing your unsupported arguments…lol.
You’re just mad about Donovan getting cut off the team…get over it.
I’ve spent paragraphs supporting my arguments and you ignore them.
Klinsmann had a better record than Coach Bob despite having a tougher schedule. Fact. Our opposition was infinitely tougher in 2014 than it was in 2010. Fact. We barely got through our group in 2010 while in 2014 we made it through with ease. Fact. We were closer to getting to the quarterfinals in 2014 than we were in 2010. Fact. We played much better soccer under Klinsmann than we did under Bradley. Fact.
lol…I continue to laugh at your futile attempts to supply facts that support your claims.
You support your arguments with opinions. I support mine with facts. It really is that simple. There is no arguing the information that I gave you. You cannot dispute it. It is undeniable and it easily triumphs your “I say it so it must be true even though there is no way of proving it” argument.
I would challenge you to give me any metric, just 1, that supports your claim that the 2014 World Cup performance was “much better” than 2010. Any measurable metric or statistic that isn’t a Klinsmann-tinted thought of your own that supports your claim.
Round of 16…lots of shots…these are not serious arguments. Getting out of the group of death was a huge achievement. No one seriously thinks the US should be advancing to the quarterfinals, certainly not against a team like Belgium. The record winning percentage, the fact that we play much better…under any metric, the team improved last cycle. You have no serious argument.
First, perhaps your parents never told you, but being rude and obnoxious doesn’t make your arguments any more persuasive.
If you want to consider friendlies and such in evaluating a coach, be my guest. But in what other sport does anyone care about games that don’t matter?
The fact remains that in games that matter, WC, GC or whatever, Jurgen is no better than his predecessors and, in the case of the WC, not as good as.
Soccer is not rhythmic gymnastics, there are no style points. “Better” means that they won more games. You may like the style they played. That’s your prerogative but the rest of us are entitled to our own opinions. But, as ever, you are not entitled to your facts: the team’s record in the last WC was no better than in earlier WCs.
My posts are not nearly as vitriolic as the ones above. Moreover, reading comments like “we need to fire Klinsmann and put Mourinho in charge” and “our players are good enough to win the World Cup” and “I hope we lose to Mexico so Klinsmann gets fired” is enough to put you in a bad mood.
So friendlies don’t count…OK. In competitive matches, JK had a better winning percentage last cycle than any other coach in US history.
Our last World Cup was much better than the previous one any way you look at it. We played much better against much tougher opposition. The US has never been this respected abroad as a soccer team in its history.
If you think that “style points” don’t matter, than you haven’t been watching soccer for long enough. The way you play the game does matter, because playing only the for the result does nothing to develop the team in the medium to long term. Under Coach Bob, the only thing that mattered was grinding out a result in any way possible. Klinsmann has tried to get us to play a more proactive brand of soccer. For the first two years of his tenure, we couldn’t figure it out, but by 2013 we were playing as well as we ever have. Not only could we defend well (we conceded fewer goals than we did under Coach Bob), we had learned how to maintain possession and break teams down in the final third. This is how we were able to score two goals against Portugal after going down early and how we were able to almost come back against Belgium. No longer were we a one-dimensional team that was only able to score on set pieces and from the occasional moment of brilliance from an in-prime Donovan on a counterattack. I don’t want to be too harsh on Coach Bob, he did a lot of good things, but we couldn’t string together more than two passes in a row while he was in charge.
In any other country, managers can be fired if the team doesn’t play good quality soccer. This isn’t because they want to be entertained, it’s because they want what’s best for the team. And under the metrics a coach is evaluated under, results and style, we were simply better under Klinsmann than under Coach Bob, both before and during the World Cup. We’ve hit a bad patch of form but if we start firing managers after a couple poor results, we’re going to end up like Mexico.
I’ve lost some pride as an American soccer fan. When I read the comments on here, I always assumed that it was just that noobs that took the time to write, but this poll shows how ignorant the American fanbase is.
Let’s fire our winningest manager in history after a couple of bad results one year into a cycle? What are we, Mexico? This is ridiculous.You people are delusional if you think Sigi Schmid or Jason Kreis would have been able to get as much out of this group of players. And even more delusional if you think a half-decent foreign manager is going to come here. This is CONCACAF for chr!st’s sake. The only reason Mexico was able to land Goran-Eriksson (not even that good a manager) is he is a total mercenary. JK lives in the US and, oh, in 2006 wanted to manage the USNT ahead of the German NT and Bayern Munich. Find one manager in the world that would do that.
JK needs to go. And Jozy Altidore should never be called up to USMNT, ever again! Horrible, inconsistent striker. lazy, slow, no dribbling skills. Just a big lug.
What standard is #bushleaguemls held to?
.
20 years, zero player develop – not sure how USSF justifies giving money earned by the USNTs to mls.
Coach Bradley’s strategy of winning through attrition and scoring late goals when the other team was weary was an effective strategy against weak and semi-decent teams but proved ineffective against top teams. The US team seemed to be stuck in the rut of qualifying for the WC but not advancing deeply. The fault seemed the US was not in control of any match because they never scored in the first twenty minutes.. Klinsman was brought in to beef up the American attack early in the match. The first year or so of Klinsman’s time as head coach appeared the US was making progress toward that goal of scoring early in the the first half, gaining control of the match while “parking the bus” in front of the penalty area during the second half. During the past year, the American offense has seemed to stall and has not been productive or creative. Klinsman’s idea of having players taking on positions outside of where they play on club teams has caused the American team to put forth a disjointed effort. Klinsman has used the Gold Cup to experiment with new players and seems to undervalue this tournament that Americans enjoy winning as the rivalry with Mexico deepens. Americans equate progress with winning these regional tournaments as steps toward the ultimate of goal of being World Cup champs. Klinsman appears to believe these are practice games for the World Cup tournament. (Tell that to ticket buyers who spent big bucks that this game is merely practice). This idea that the regional tournaments are similar to “friendly matches” is out of step with American values and is contradictory. Klinsman celebrated many American victories in friendies over European power houses as “making progress” but these games were truly practice matches. Whatever Klinsman’s logic is, it seems out of step with players and fans. Without a solid effort against our neighbors this week, Klinsman will be most likely be on a plane back across the pond.
More rewriting of history. For all his faults, I am sure that Bradley wanted to score as soon as possible. That his teams relied on fitness, organization, and hard work reflects not a coaching philosophy but realism about the players available.
Indeed,the US is “stuck in the rut” of qualifying for the WC but struggling to get past the first knockout round, but again that reflects the quality of players available and has little to do with who the coach is (and puts the US in the same category with many other soccer nations). Anyone who thinks that Jurgen can get the US further than Arena or Bradley did needs to take a deep breath.
And finally, Jurgen was vociferous that the Gold Cup mattered, regardless of what we fans thought. He may have experimented but that reflected his failure to understand the quality of his players or that of the teams he was facing. And one more proof that he is, to put it kindly, a bit limited as a coach.
No rewriting of history, I make my conclusions on how I see it. Too many games were won in the waning minutes under Bradley. I agree the US team was in excellent shape to endure 90 minutes of play. Lastly, if the tournaments truly mattered to Klinsmann, why experiment? Important games should have the proven players, not a handful of “maybes.” I agree Jurgen’s limitations are showing.
If winning games at the end were somehow a bad thing, what should be make of Sir Alec? His teams regularly won in the last quarter hour.
SIR ALEX
Of course not. This game and this tournament mean absolutely nothing. If he’s gonna get fired, it should be for his overall performance and direction, not for losing a meaningless game to get into a meaningless tournament.
Yea, but Jurgen has proclaimed that this is an important game and an important tournament. It’s a little late to claim that the outcome of Saturday’s game doesn’t matter.
For my money, that Jurgen has hyped this tournament is still more proof that he is a clown masquerading as a soccer coach.
Rewarding failure is un-American!
Klinsmann Out
In Klinsmann we trust…Don’t worry, the USA will have free flowing attacking soccer and a great system where players can express themselves and thrive…Just give it time guys….It’ll happen, don’t worry….Wait, you’re saying it’s already been 4 years? The free flowing soccer hasn’t happened? The system changes by the game? Players aren’t expressing themselves but playing in unfamiliar roles because Klinsmann has a hunch about it? …Come on, you’re lying
More like Sunil, let people who know about soccer make the decisions
GTV, what good talent? Jermaine was there before JK. How many of these guys are consistently contributing to this Team? What’s the use of a talent who has no impact on the Team? Jonea and Johnson are the only ones of significance. There are players in the MLS who can have a morr consistent impact on the USA. You guys give JK too much credit for mediocrity. He has no system. The Bayern Munich players said they had to sort things out after they got on the field. Sunil wake up!
The good still outweighs the bad with Klinsi, but only just. He definitely should not be given a free ride until the next World Cup. He is the one who set the goal to win the Gold Cup and he failed miserably. My biggest concern is that he has not established a discernible system. He has scouted good talent but has not come up with a system to plug the talent into that works.
They should get rid of Altidore too. Worthless!
I don’t understand why people are so upset with Donovan. It’s a fact that prior to naming the squad for the WC, seasoned players were singing his praise about his fitness and playing ability. I agree with him. Yes, JK was a great player but he is left wanting as a Coach. The same MLS he has chastised is responsible for improving the Central American and Caribbean Teams. These are the Teams that have been beating us in Competitions that matters. MLS is their Europe. Mexico and Jamaica have new Coaches. In spite of this, they advance to the GC final. We fielded just as much European Players as Mexico and finished in 4th place. Guys, it’s the Coaching. JK has managed this Team poorly. When you look at our current pool of players, JK has better quality playerd to choose from than BB and Arena had. What they did was build a core group of guys who grew into a Team and improved along the way. That’s what is lacking with the current Team. JK has underachieved. Mexico has been through so many Coaches since JK took over the USA. So what did they do along the way? Win a GC. JK rode Donovan to win the last GC. Then like a mule, he left him behind. Cameron, Besler and others who have made comments that challenged JK have been thrown by the way side. No, no, we deserve better than the crap JK has to offer. Donovan has the right to be upset. Had it not been for him we would not be playing for the opportunity to go to the Confederation Cup Tournament. You guys give JK too much credit for his putrid job as Team Manager. He and Sunil need to go.
Seriously, regardless of this single match, Klinsmann should be replaced as head coach and eased into a position where he can develop national talent. I think he could do well there. Needs a refresher in geography, of course, so he can distinguish the U.S. from Europe…
JK’s massive ego will prevent him from ever stepping down into simply a developmental role. If he’s not the kingpin then he’s gone!
People are way to reactionary. So many fans of US soccer are not used to supporting mediocre teams, lower your expectations. JK has done a fine job, there is no current US coach who could come close to filling his shoes.
I would think that there are plenty of coaches that could have led the USMNT to a 4th place finish in the Gold Cup.
You are a bit late on your “expectations” request.
Klinsmann’s results, tactics, roster selection, and decision to deflect blame to wherever it may stick have lowered expectations for the USMNT a long time ago.
Donovan is just jealous about Brazil.
Nancy boy
Wait till after WC to decide. The USMNT has a hole with players from 23 to about 27 years old. The ones from 18 to 22 years old look really good. by the time Russia comes around a lot of those will be 21 to 25 and hopefully playing 1st team minutes at decent clubs through Europe. Zelalem, Hyndman, Rubin, Wood, Brooks, Green, Gyau, maybe Yomba, Mizga will probably be over there too, CCV, Panye, and im prolly leaving some out. lot of hope for the future. oh yea hopefully Kyle Scott choses USA over England. His with the USA u 20s right now.
i would have parted ways with mr. klinnsman at 9 am the morning after the loss to panama.
– he had an ENTIRE WC CYCLE
– gold cup failure (to a team other than mexico) = FAIL if the test is pass/fail imo
RESULTS MATTER.
maybe, read that last sentence again? (do i have a witness?)
cheers!
This question requires a significantly more thought answer then yes or no. As a Klinsmann guy I have reached my threshold of unexplainable rosters and playing people out of position. I want that fixed whether he stays or goes. That beings said if they lose the game I would ask him to step down as coach and remain on as technical director. If he declines to remain on then so be it, that is his decision. He if wins he buys himself more time.
I maintain a weird opium dream that Jose Mourinho will wake up one day, look at the US and say, “There’s a team for my tactics! Forget possession! Squeeze space, press relentlessly and, when the opposition loses possession, pounce for a counter.”
JK has become the king of shooting into the abyss! He’s become Mr. Plug&Play, Mr. wishful thinking! He’s had relatively the same pool of defenders for 4yrs, and to this day he cannot come up with 1 solid everyday regular starter! Yet he’s spread them around, added MF’s to the mix, played them all out of their pro/club positional strengths and created defensive chaos!
He cannot come up with any regular outside backs to truly count on day in day out.
He wouldn’t know a legitimate and solid #6 if it bit him on the ass!
He is clueless how to establish a consistent and creative midfield that can actually possess the f’ing ball!
He assumed reliance to Brad Guzan, who still struggles to distribute the ball and whom, aside from the magical saves, always has a gimme goal on the cusp of the 6.
He has been unable in his current tenure to have even developed a consistent striker! The position that made him famous, yet he’s not been able to even ‘rub off’ on any of our striker pool. To have to depend upon Jozy Altidore after the world has primarily sent him off, is asinine! If he thinks that Deuce is going to be in top fit and form by Russia, he’s smoking crack!
He decreed that the 2015 Gold Cup was our most important tournament this year and that we’d be going all out to insure winning the cup and the CC bid for 2017. He brought one of our worst prepared teams in recent history and the competitive level we exhibited was shamefully weak. He played that tournament out of position, without various key players and the game by game lineups looked like he picked names out of a lottery hat!
I feel that there were more than just 1 or 2 players left off the MNT because of personal and petty issues with JK. We have regressed as a USMNT team at this point and not only do I feel that it’s JK’s direct responsibility, but also that of Sunil, whom must also be shown off the organization.
I may not have answers, as to replacements, but most certainly there are many better leaders out there not named Tab.
In other coaching news, I just saw on the Sunderland Echo that Bob Bradley is being considered for the Sunderland job. I don’t know how I would feel. There’s literally no chance of succeeding there but it would be a huge step in the right direction. He may get the job by default because no one else wants it.
Come on. That would be great. Bradley’s a decent guy, he’s won everywhere at the club level, he”d make as much in a season in the EPL as he’s made in his entire career. He made it quite clear after Egypt that his goal was to coach in England. Probably he won’t get his shot – in the minds of the English, the only good Yanks are the ones with gloves on – but it is a nice thought.
England’s famed football arrogance has taken a real beating in recent years. I’d say all options are on the table. If they believed that Ben Olsen, for instance, might be the answer to their national team woes, they’d fire off an offer in a heartbeat.
There would be considerable karmic justice if Jurgen lost his job after losing this game, because he has expended so much energy hyping the Confederations Cup.
But it won’t happen.
First, there’s no guarantee the US will lose or more precisely that Mexico will win. Our neighbors to the south have their own problems, not to mention a terrible record in recent years playing the US in the US.
Second, the problems at USSF don’t stop at the coach. Anyone dumb enough to hire Jurgen is dumb enough to keep him even when it is apparent that he is clueless as a coach. As I recall Gulati has more or less acknowledged that he is, in fact, just that dumb.
Unless Jurgen decides that he would prefer sitting on the shores of the Pacific clipping coupons or something, we are stuck with him through the World Cup. Deal with it.
Personally, this was all a lot more fun when Jurgen was confidently lecturing us stupid Americans about how soccer is meant to be played and a chorus of his devotees was singing his praises and proclaiming the arrival of a golden age of US soccer. In a strange sort of way, I hope the US wins, Jurgen stays and provides us all with some more campy entertainment through the qualification process. And one must also remember that, as pitiful Jurgen is, there are worse coaches and USSF is silly enough to hire one of them.
Mexico can’t hire a coach who had a 23% winning percentage with the New York Red Bulls, but not even the most successful MLS coaches are worthy of replacing Klinsmann (remember his time advising Toronto FC, when they hired Aron Winter on his recommendation and brought in Frings and Koevermans?) as coach of the US team, according to some…
I wonder what percentage of “NO’s” are eurosnobs who will always just say that everything European is always better than anything American when it comes to soccer. And I still don’t think that Klinsmann himself is not a eurosnob. At the end, 12 of the 23 players are based in MLS and 2 more in Mexico. Only 9 in Europe. Only 7 of them are field players. Eurosnobs like him because they perceive him to be one of them due to his quotes, but when push comes to shove he calls up more MLS players than he could have. And he will start 6 or 7 of them, I believe.
IMHO it depends on how the game is played out. If the team is drastically outplayed and looses by a large margin than I’m for sacking JK. Otherwise I believe we should stick with him….at least into the 1st round of WC qualification. If that goes poorly than it’ll be clear that he’s lost the team and needs to be replaced same as Bob Bradley was.
No one can do what Klinsmann has been doing, or should we say is willing to do what he’s been doing so far. The connections he has, relationships he has with clubs and other countries is priceless, he should be doing better for the USAv Mex game and in the gold cup, but for building the american team, for the vision we have much more greater than any other CONCACAF team out there of the future Klinnsmann is the only man that can achieve that. If we fire him what other top tier coach will want to coach the Americans with not a lot of options or potential for the future? do you really thing a top tier coach will want to build a team? most great coaches do want to build in some way but for the most part want a foundation built already for them to come in and at least start running with pace. Klinsmann has just had a bad string of games this past few months thats all, but has also done some amazing things between those bad games.
Yes
No. No. No
Why does donovan feel the need to say such a thing?
His feud with JK is ridiculous. Get over it Donovan. Dont hate on him because you werent ready for Brazil. Dempsey has replaced you
First of all, Donovan did not state that Klinsmann should be fired. The direct quote is;
“I think if Jurgen wants to hold all the players to that standard, then he has to be held to that standard too.”
I interpret that to mean that the standard for a head coach should be the same standard that he has for his players. Perform well, you stay. Perform poorly, you’re out. A small distinction, I know.
The headlines obviously took the sensational side and posted ” Donovan thinks that Klinsmann should be fired if he loses to Mexico!” Rather than, ” Donovan thinks that Klinsmann should stay if he beats Mexico!”
Secondly, is it really any surprise that he was asked the question this week?
Should he deprive his livelihood and income and not accept interview requests because he is well aware that the question is coming when he is interviewed before the USA-Mexico matchup?
Was he supposed to say, “No, Jurgen should stay regardless of the poor showing at the Gold Cup, against Brazil and potential loss to Mexico”? Would that have been the correct response?
Is Landon bitter? Absolutely! I would be too.
Is he wrong? Should Klinsmann be held to the same standard as every other international coach in the world plus the standard that he has set for his own individual players (well, we know that Klinsmann has exceptions for his favorites)?
I say yes.
Well said.
This.
perfect.
For the record Donovan didn’t just come out blasting JK, he was asked in an interview by ESPN “if the US loses to Mexico should JK be fired”? LD didid not say he should, only that he needs to ‘ve held to the standard he puts on his players which is true.
No. Not unless somebody better can be had. And if JK has to be fired than Sunil has to go as well because he was the one who hired JK at the exclusion of all others and then re-upped his contract.
No. That said, if we lose and then come out of the WC Qualifying gates looking like garbage? Yes.
JK needs to be fired regardless whether US wins or not. No tactics and poor roster selections!
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter because Klinsmann sets the bar and expectations for himself. He’ll let us know when he should be under pressure or fired.
I would have said no if this question was asked 6 months ago, however now the answer is YES. If we cant beat Mexico at home for what is the most important preparation for Russia 2018 he deserves to be fired. I understand hes not sure who is the best back four but he needs to stick with a regular four. make lemonade out of lemons or say f the lemons and bail.
Uh, Pasadena will not be a “home” game, not by any stretch of the imagination…
If you hire someone to get you through the 2018 WC, and have repeatedly said that’s what he’ll be judged on, you can’t reverse course and fire him unless the stated goal of getting to the WC is in danger.
My $0.02.
People aren’t angry about it yet, but if the loss does happen, expect the fraction calling for his firing to increase. So far it is just an idea, if emotion gets involved, expect a big change. Of course, I hope the players win and thereby save JK’s ass.
Depends.
A close loss in which we play attractive soccer? Maybe an unfortunate bounce doesn’t go our way. Then, No.
A Mexican blow out with another experimental US lineup? Absolutely.
Good answer. Though tournaments come down to a single game, any single result can be misleading.
If he starts Alvarado and he gets smoked for multiple goals, that will be pretty clear to all.
If he starts Alvarado, I would fire him just for that, before waiting for the result.
Actually, I’m thinking he ought to be fired because even now, years after JK took over the team, we still have no idea who the starting backs are.
You don’t screw around with defenders. It’s one thing when injuries or whatnot throw a national team into confusion and crisis. It’s another when the ‘injury’ is self-inflicted by an overly experimental coach bent on out-smarting himself.
I agree!
I think its safe to say he plays the following backline
Beas —– Beseler—–GCam——FabJo
I would be comfortable with that back line. However, nothing is a safe assumption with Klinsmann.
agreed. and if it’s me, i’m playing Howard.
what i will say, Yedlin is getting minutes now. if he plays well in camp, i could see JK throwing FJ at LB and Yedlin at RB. not sure it’s a good idea, but it could happen.
as for the CBs. if it isn’t Besler or Ream next to Cameron, than JK better hide.
Probably the best answer out there for me. If we look the way we did against Brazil/Jamaica/Panama, I’d say there is a legitimate case that the team needs a new direction. But if they come to play hard, look good, and are ousted on penalties, I’m not really convinced another coach will make our limited talent perform that much better.
Also, who is said “other coach” the most popular guy in the world is the back-up quarterback/the politician that isn’t named… then you see your options, and sometimes the devil you know… you know?
This game is a denouement of all the strategic, tactical and personnel mistakes that Klinsmann has made that led up to the necessity of even having this game. He has used his ability as a player to foist upon us, his (completely missing) mastery of being a coach and manager of a team NOT German. We all know by now it was Low who was the mastermind behind the German ’06 WC team, and we know now about the situation at BM that lead to his firing. It was never about us winning friendlies and padding the record, it was about leading a team and excelling in tournaments. The USMNT has exemplary players, and IMHO capable of winning the WC, but not under Klinsmann. He has consistently lowered performance expectations, and as a result, like a tick, has burrowed in to the USMNT and US Fans consciousness as someone who can lead by his “outside the box” thinking and constant tinkering. This has lead to really bizarre formations and consistently having good players play outside their levels of expertise leading to a lack of important wins, losing player confidence and tagging certain playrs as favorites much to the detriment of the US team.
I am rooting for the US to win, but I wont be wishing this win by any means reflects well upon Klinsmann, hi time has come to leave, before we start WC qualifying.
Champions League clubs around Europe wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment that the USMNT has players that are fully capable of winning the World Cup! They vote by not signing USMNT players to contracts. While JK will never be confused with a tactical genius, it is hardly his fault that our player pool is not great. Forget the next Messi, maybe we should be worried about having a player with enough quality to make Barca B.
+1 The claim that the USMNT currently has the player pool to win a WC borders on the hilarious. The combined market valuation of our entire starting XI against Belgium was less than Eden Hazard by himself.
We are not terrible. We can hold our own against top teams and occasionally upset some of them. But that’s the most polite thing you can say about our player pool.
Borders on hilarious? It is beyond hilarious. Yes, we can definitely hold our own against top teams and occasionally upset some of them. But then again, weak CONCACAF teams can hold their own against us and occasionally upset us. Please see CUP, GOLD.
If having a team full of Champions League players was a qualification to do well in the World Cup, then England, Spain, and Portugal would have all made it out of their group.
I cannot believe you’re defending the trash that came out of your mouth. Please support another country.
wow, I have heard it all now. USMNT has players capable of winning the WC. Can someone names some of those players please?
Well, if the task was to field 11 keepers, we probably would be in the running.
+1
We don’t have a single Champions League player. Let me repeat that, we don’t have a single CL player. And there is no secret bias in Europe against American players. Sure it’s easier for those clubs to sign role players that already have EU passports, but that’s it. If there truly was an American Messi, all the Man Citys and Chelseas and Barcas would be lining up because they all care more about winning than anything else.
Our boys are awesome and are punching above their weight, same as the US team of old. JK has done fine.
FJ is one
Bit misleading – a number of players could probably get on champions league teams. Not all champions league teams are made equal.
Just because all these teams care about winning “more than anything else” doesn’t necessarily mean that they will do what is in their own best interest. You’re basically arguing that the free market will sort things out. However we all know that there are poorly run rich teams, just like there are poorly run rich companies. Players, like in Moneyball, may be overlooked or overhyped for the wrong reasons.
I think it is fair to say that there is some bias in Europe when it comes to Americans. For instance, Clint Dempsey was the fourth best scorer in the 2011-12 PL, and he did it playing for a lowly Fulham team. However, none of the top four teams came calling, and he had to settle for the Spurs.
“We don’t have a single Champions League player. Let me repeat that, we don’t have a single CL player.”
you can repeat it all you want, but it’s still a false statement.
He may have forgotten about FJ, but his main point that we lack quality to be a real contender for the WC is valid. Look at the number of CL players on the teams that finished in the top four at the last WC and compare it to the number of CL players at the USMNT. Yes, we can beat Germany on a good day in a friendly game, but let’s not delude ourselves that we have similar quality in our national team player pool.
@bottlcaps, What have you been smoking?
Bottlecaps, this is so over the top it is silly. You seem to want to the old Bunker Bob days back. Sure, the USMNT had stable lineups, but only because there were so few actual personnel options. Those were the days when injuries at certain positions did lead to chaos. When Dolo went down, there were zero options. When Davies was lost, we robbed we were left with Robbie Finlay and Edson Buddle. To you every lineup is bizarre because you don’t like JK and because you don’t seem to understand that the team doesn’t play in a vacuum. But, one thing you cannot say is that everyone of the players on the squad has been tested and has shown enough to continue getting callups. And when one of these guys falls or is injured, there are more guys on the fringes ready to compete. The uSMNT has never had anything like that before.
The pool is deeper; no doubt. There is little JK or any coach could do to help or hinder that development, aside from JK’s recruitment of dual-national German-Americans.
Actually, just giving more players a run out during off years, for friendlies, etc. does deepen the pool, especially because JK was promoting a change in style of play. Here’s the thing, because the talent pool is somewhat shallow, it is also broad. By that I mean that there isn’t that big of a difference in talent between say, Mix Diskerud and Alfredo Morales or Joe Corona and a few others. Previously the answer was to pick one of them and let the others slide. JK’s answer is to pick all of them since they will all have runs of good and bad form or injuries. The pool isn’t deeper (the players are no better) but there are more of them and in theory at least, competition will gradually force people to improve.
LD is being so petulant over his world cup snub. Klinsman has through the Copa Ameica next year to demonstrate progress toward a quarter final birth for USMNT. Qualifying for the confederation cup is part of that, because it gives the team competitive matches to play in preparation for 2018. But what really matters is not one game against Mexico, but how the US fair a competitive tournament it is trying to win, not experimenting, not developing new players, not putting a on a show for fans,,, but actually trying to win. Unlike the Europeans and South Americans the Concacaf teams don’t have significant non-world cup playing experience, usually. So that is Klinsman’s litmus test the 2016 Copa America.
Wait, didn’t we just have a competitive tournament in which Jurgen led the US to ignominious defeat? Doesn’t the Gold Cup result count for something? Jurgen said he was trying to win the tournament, not experiment or whatever. That his actions were not consistent with that claim doesn’t get him off the hook.
I see you conveniently left out that abysmal 2015 GC showing!!! I like the fact that JK wants to progress our way if thinking and playing but I can’t get down with the ego, double talk, hypocrisy and beyond head scratcher lineups and rosters. Something is amiss and the people who can’t see it choose not to. Lastly, and sorry to bust bubbles but LD is right about the manager being held to the same standard as the llayers, after all he is the one picking the team and the tactics
kind of like the people who only remember the 2015 GC and forget the other tournaments. specifically, the Hex, 2013 GC, and the WC.
They’re not forgotten, those tournaments were just business as usual.
Won the Hex, just like the previous 2 World Cup cycles. Won 2013 Gold Cup led by a B+ squad (B+ only because Donovan, Bedoya and Holden were on the squad, otherwise a “B” squad) vs everyone else’s B squads. Won 1, Tied 1, Lost 2 at the 2014 World Cup.
Was there a special accomplishment within those 3 tournaments you are referring to?
no, it does not work like that. when you are discussing the performance of a coach, you take into consideration everything. you don’t leave out what is convenient.
it does not matter what we did under Arena or Bob. under JK, we tied most points for Hex, won the 2013 GC, and got out of the GoD at the World Cup.
everyone wants to talk about this being a results-based business but ONLY want to include the results from the 2015 GC. it does not work like that though.
clearly the 2015 GC was a wreck and an embarrassment. and as such, JK deserves to be on the hot plate. but, looking at his results as a whole, he is still actually performing better. Paul Carr from ESPN provided these stats:
In competitive (non-friendly) games: Klinsmann .734, Bradley .677, Arena .674.
he put that out there after including friendlies, where, once again, JK had better overall results. so Twellman followed up saying, “yeah but what about meaningful” games…still JK.
point is, this idea JK is dragging everything down and that his results are worse than Bob or Arena’s is not true. JK’s 2015 GC was an EPIC failure that he has to live with and that, for me, should be weighed heavily. but not so much that it ignores everything else.
people also complain that JK came on board and said he would turn our style of play around to be more proactive. i never, EVER, bought into that because we don’t have the players at the senior level to do that. but i can see why people are disappointed that is not the case. but to me, they’re gullible. what i see is a proactive style of play at the U-17, U-20, and even the U-23 level. not saying that is because of JK, but that is where people should be looking. but again, JK did say that so I can see people feeling cheated.
Again, was there a special accomplishment somewhere in there?
I never suggested that Klinsmann was doing any worse than Bradley or Arena. He just hasn’t done any better at 4 times the price. Bad investment, seems to me.
Remember, it is Klinsmann that created his own expectations for this year. Klinsmann was adamant about the importance this year was to the upcoming World Cup cycle and will clearly have failed the USMNT program if the USMNT loses vs Mexico.
what special accomplishment needs to be in there? you want to talk results, you have results. there is nothing else to say there. stop looking for an accomplishment.
“He just hasn’t done any better at 4 times the price.”
except, he has. better win percentage, set a record for win-draw-loss in 2012, and got us out of a group in the WC that was the strongest we have ever been in. on top of that, he matched the record of Hex points, matched winning a Gold Cup, and matched getting to R16 of a WC.
he failed like no one else at the 2015 GC. and like you said, that tournament, and now this game, as well as the friendlies were supposed to set us up nicely for WCQs. that is turning out to not be the case. but firing him right before WCQs in November? idk about that.
to me, losing this game (and not playing well), not beating CR in NY, coupled with poor results in November would be it for me. then the new coach can come in, assess the situation, have a January camp, and get himself situated for March. those games plus some friendlies would lead nicely into Copa America (if it happens).
First, using US Soccer’s winning % calculation Klinsmann is second to Arena’s, so let’s not pretend that “he has the highest winning percentage….blah, blah, blah” argument is a good one.
Every other argument you brought forth is at best only equal to Arena’s tenure and I would argue Bradley’s as well.
Each manager has their signature results, but one can argue that both Bradley and Arena’s signature results were in a significant tournament competition while Klinsmann’s have been in 6 sub friendlies.
I won’t argue that Klinsmann has done a bad job, but I will argue that Klinsmann has not done a better job than either Arena or Bradley. Both Arena and Bradley were held to a standard that when not met, were let go. I should not be any different for Klinsmann.
If the USMNT loses to Mexico on Saturday, that time should be Sunday.
“First, using US Soccer’s winning % calculation Klinsmann is second to Arena’s”
says who? Paul Carr from ESPN, stats/numbers guru, pulled them and JK is higher. Arena was behind Bradley even…
“Every other argument you brought forth is at best only equal to Arena’s tenure and I would argue Bradley’s as well.”
you are STUCK on this idea of comparison. i just spelled out what he has done that others haven’t, i spelled out what he did that others also did, and i spelled out what he did (negative) that no one else had. but again, you want to talk results, you look at everything.
“but I will argue that Klinsmann has not done a better job than either Arena or Bradley. Both Arena and Bradley were held to a standard that when not met, were let go. I should not be any different for Klinsmann.”
you can argue that, i am not saying you shouldn’t. JK has a higher record percentage than them, achieved a few things they didn’t, achieved a lot of things they also achieved, and failed on something neither of them failed on. but of course Bob failed at 2007 Copa America yet did well at 2009 Confeds Cup. so in the end, i am not going to argue that JK has been worth the extra investment in terms of ONLY results. but that does not change the FACT that his record is still better. what someone should do is compare ExG, GD, chances created, possession, etc. for each coach. that would give a clearer picture. but no one has.
the key difference between Arena being let go and JK is that Arena was let go after getting 1 point at the World Cup when the US was ranked (albeit, ridiculously) in the top 10.
for Bradley, he was told, straight up after the WC, losing to Ghana was a big red X. to make up for it, winning the 2011 Gold Cup so we got to go to the Confeds Cup was required. he didn’t.
JK, on the other hand, was given an extension after getting out of the GoD in the 2014 WC. whether or not that was fair or justified is a conversation worth having (and was had). but that is the reality of the situation. and with that much money guaranteed, the dynamics are much different than with Arena or Bradley. to me, it would be much smarter for USSF to, assuming we lose against Mexico, wait and see how November goes. at that point, if S is still hitting the fan, there is nothing left to see. that would be a Gold Cup failure, a Mexico/US playoff failure, and initial WCQ games failure. 3 strikes.
According to US Soccer, Arena has a winning percentage of 65.8%. Klinsmann has a winning percentage of 65.3%.
If you do the raw math, Klinsmann has won 42 of 75 matches for a win percentage of 56%. Arena won 71 of 130 matches for a win percentage of 54.6%
Why are the calculations different? US Soccer’s winning percentage calculation is as such; 1 point for a win + 1/2 point for a draw divided by the number of games played. In essence, US Soccer defines its win percentage by what it considers positive results from matches. Positive results being defined by wins and draws.
The raw numbers say Klinsmann has the higher win %. But the method which US Soccer chooses to define the success of its coaches says Arena has a higher win%.
I would suggest that regardless of your preferred calculation, the numbers are so close that they are a virtual draw.
By the way, Klinsmann has a losing percentage of 25.3% while Arena has a losing percentage of 23.1%. By the raw numbers, it is just as easy to argue that Klinsmann is a bigger loser than Arena. Funny how numbers work…
So now that Klinsmann’s boss (US Soccer) considers Arena the more successful coach, Klinsmann can hang his hat on the 2012 year as his one signature success that no other US coach has accomplished.
All national team coaches should be so lucky to be considered a success with a 25% winning percentage in the World Cup then following that up with a 4th place result on the Gold Cup.
did you include friendlies. i believe Paul Carr excluded them. either way, i trust him. ESPN Stats senior researcher we’re talking about. but yes, i agree numbers can be twisted just about anyway you want. but what i am referencing was:
“In competitive (non-friendly) games: Klinsmann .734, Bradley .677, Arena .674.”
as for your second comment, how can you not include context we are the US and we were in a group of Germany, Portugal, and Ghana. and a R16 game against Belgium…a team that has one player worth more than our team. the fact we got out of that group says enough. so that 25% record in the WC suddenly looks acceptable if being realistic.
The numbers I use are straight from US Soccer’s website. Total games coached, Total Wins, Total Losses, Total Draws. Nothing subjective about that.
Carr’s numbers seem to be subjective to his definition of “competitive (non-friendly) games”. Only he knows which matches are included/excluded into his calculation.
As far as the World Cup, I take into context that the USMNT was playing;
1) a team more focused about getting paid than actually playing in the World Cup all the way up to the night before the game. (Ghana). A definite distraction..
2) a team playing well below it’s world ranking because it is heavily reliant on a noticeably injured star (Ronaldo) to provide many of its attacking opportunities (Portugal).
3) An obviously outstanding team. No shame in being totally outclassed by this team (Germany).
What was billed as the “Group of Death” in reality was well short of that because of team distractions and injuries. What seemed improbable 3 months before the World Cup, became very probable in the days leading up to the World Cup as the issues for 2 of the 3 other teams became apparent.
Given the issues I outlined above 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses in the 2014 World Cup doesn’t define progression or a successful World Cup to me.
his numbers are not subjective. i told you how/why he posted those. Twellman asked him what the three coaches had for MEANINGFUL games (e.g. no friendlies). Carr provided that stats, reiterating he used Twellman’s filter of non-friendly games only. it’s that simple. so my guess is the difference is simply attributed to including friendlies or not.
you can discredit that group as not being the GoD, something i actually agree with, but it does not change the fact that every team in that group was more talented than us. getting out of that group was an accomplishment.
also, 2013 GC Panama was 100% their A team. who did we beat in the final? Panama.
well i guess it makes it even more pathetic that we lost to them 2 years later in the 4th place game with all of our regulars smdh
Ronniet, for sure. although i think losing to Jamaica is still worse.
Petulant or not, LD’s comments are dead on… Does anyone honestly believe Klinsmann wouldn’t have been fired if he got the same Gold Cup result in charge of Mexico? Would he survive in charge of any truly competitive national team after those results in a competition he is expected to win?
Seriously? Do we actually need a separate article for this?
Apparently we do. We all saw this coming too. Nothing generates hits like a LD-JK he said, she said post.
Does that mean LD is the she? Sometimes his “truth” seems that of a jilted lover or vindictive ex. Even if I agree in principle with his bigger point about expectations of an evolving soccer culture.
Fire him. Vermes is already taping his ankles in preparation to takeover.
I say we fire him and hire Jason Kreis. That way US Soccer can force Klinsmann to hand in his monogrammed coaching attire to another JK. That will save US Soccer literally stacks of rolled coins that they can give Kreis to launder out the Eurotrash from US Soccer.
I’m not going to say you’ve won the internet today, Soccer SSI, not yet. But you’re in the lead.
Plenty of people share LD’s opinion. Because he’s right.
any poll that allows multiple selections from one IP and allows you to select both options should be ignored 🙂
+ 1 Lol
I voted
I won’t speak to whether LD is right or wrong but the fact of the matter is that JK’s job is not in jeopardy. Does anyone really thing the USSF is going to swallow the $7-8mm left on JK’s contract AND pay for the type of replacement people are clamoring for? He’s already making 4-5x what Bradley was and is locked in through 2018. Right or wrong, prepare for 3 more years under JK…