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B.J. Callaghan relying on USMNT’s “strong foundation” ahead of Nations League

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  1. if you go back to march 2019 adams was a RB, brooks and long were starting (sounds like a country band), zardes was the striker, and trapp and arriola were starting. that was berhalter’s idea of a “foundation” for qatar at his outset. about half of it didn’t take.

    they were a round of 16 team whose coach got canned. sorry but not eager to polish their legacy with confirmation bias. i think we’d do well to open this back up to new ideas and players, and the thing about country as opposed to club is i can always try y this time but then revert back to x next window. no one has to get sold or traded to clear space to make a tactical or personnel shift. even the sainted JK who got this whole meritocracy obsession rolling would occasionally drop dempsey or jozy to make some point. and historically this team used to make it the same depth into tournaments while letting sure-things like reyna and mcbride (95 caps in 13 years!) rest enough they would average <10 caps a season. i don't have to reprove to myself constantly mcbride is that good. having done so, the oxygen is not sucked out of the team for everyone else whose help i may need.

    last, peak US keeping was when friedel and keller duked it out for years. where does it say we have to decide a winner? we might for a world cup, but why does every position battle require some definitive answer game 1 before they play a minute, based on white board theories and reading spreadsheets, or a continuity feedback loop? throw balogun and the other strikers out there for a year and see which ones score goals. give some other keepers a chance. have an actual MF competition (i mean, we can't even keep adams healthy). who really are our best backs?

    or, put differently, have an actual roster competition. the funny thing is the people pushing how hard it is to make the field for x club sometimes seem the least interested in creating that same environment for the NT. for the Nats they want to hand it to the incumbents. how about make them earn it?

    beyond that, i am not sure if dest, aaronson, reyna, musah, and others are even properly deployed. when we go out round of 16 not sure where all the certitude and "foundational" nature comes from. to me it needs more work.

    Reply
    • None of the teams who made the knockouts are dismantling their rosters. Even most of the countries that didn’t even qualify aren’t dismantling their rosters. The US has never done that and if you look at rosters in March from around the world no one else besides Italy is doing it now. You are using odd occurrences like playing a Copa America one week after a GC or a midweek friendly in the middle of MLS Playoffs and European leagues as the norm.
      ————————
      Your cap numbers are generally from guys being injured (as Reyna and McBride often were), qualification being wrapped up early, or skipping a tournament that backed up to another (GC/Confed or Copa Am). The European stars skipped GC last time and despite being on the provisional indications are they will likely not be on the 23 in June either. Pulisic has played in 1 of 3 GCs, Adams has never played in a GC, Wes has played 1 out of 2. Dempsey play 5 of 7 GCs, Bradley 5 of 7 GCs,McBride 4 of 5 GCs. The difference is today there are more competitive games because of NL and because of the 3 team group format making it very hard to clinch advancement early. The Ocho instead of the traditional 4 team group to Hex added matches.
      ———————-
      Please share with us one of these “smart teams” that are trialing huge rosters of new players.

      Reply
      • it’s not “dismantling.” you know the qatar 23 just fine. it’s using a little bit of time to experiment. previous US teams have used time this way. quit freaking out. your argument is a figment of the landon/klinsi era where players get called over and over and the goal above all is win every friendly using as many status quo first choice as possible. it makes the team very slow to adjust.

      • V; you’re assuming your conclusion, and falsely. we just finished 3rd in region and round of 16. how is that not “mediocre?” i am saying turn over some rocks instead of having the sole goal be using regulars to chase trophies on the assumption we cannot possibly do any different or better. other US teams have done this before. gold cups used to be more of a B/C tryout camp.

        i am not saying we shouldn’t try to win. we should try to win every game. i am saying end the insecure assumption we cannot experiment and win. carve out a few games and see what else we have. i think that will help the team be better as the high performers can be integrated and replace poor performing regulars. i never said dump the core. i said make people compete for the team. that will act more around the edges really.

      • Mr. Voice,

        “it’s not “dismantling.” you know the qatar 23 just fine. it’s using a little bit of time to experiment. previous US teams have used time this way. quit freaking out. your argument is a figment of the landon/klinsi era where players get called over and over and the goal above all is win every friendly using as many status quo first choice as possible.”

        Ah yes, your trademark made up stuff. Your memory of JK is, in the mildest possible way, bullshit.

        JK experimented all the time in friendlies and even in the 2015 Gold Cup. He was never shy about throwing a player in at the deep end if he thought they could handle it.

        He seemed to feel the same way about the Gold Cup as I did, that it was a useless piece of shit, competitively speaking and good mostly for scrimmaging. I’m sure that attitude offended the good ole boys club and contributed to him being fired.

        After all JK is the guy who capped the USL’s Miguel Ibarra and Stanford’s ( as in the NCAA) Jordan Morris, a friking amateur who scored against Mexico on his debut.
        .
        https://www.si.com/soccer/2015/04/16/jordan-morris-goal-usa-mexico

        With your tenuous relationship with facts you should run for Congress. You’ll fit right in.

        The USMNT is an all-star team that plays more than one all-star game per year. They are not a club team like the USWNT.

        A top flight club team might do, give or take, 30 hours of training a week for maybe 10-11 months.

        Do the math.

        Then add in the games and then think about a guy you totally despise, Tim Ream and his left back Antonee.
        Even though you hate Ream’s guts I think we can all agree that he and Antonee play very well together for the USMNT.
        How much time do they spend practicing and playing together?
        I’m lazy so you go and compare their Fulham play and practice time to their USMNT play and practice time together.

        I’m pretty sure it is nowhere in the same zip code. Even if you were called up for and played 90 in every USMNT game your play and practice time would still be dwarfed by what you do with your club.

        Of course that leaves us with the question of how much play and practice time together do you really need? I don’t know and I imagine that it’s different for every player. Of course every time you change out players from your eleven, things change. You do the math.

        The point is , you’re demanding ideal competitions for all the players when the reality is that may not be practical given the circumstances.

        Which means that it is critical that the manager and their staff need to be really great at evaluating talent, quickly and efficiently under less than ideal circumstances. And they need to be competent enough and brave enough to occasionally take a chance on a relatively new player.

        Sometimes you just have to go with your instincts and throw a new player in at the deep end and see how it goes.

        “V; you’re assuming your conclusion, and falsely. we just finished 3rd in region and round of 16. how is that not “mediocre?””

        In terms of the World Cup we are mediocre. Pretty much always have been. This is a question?

        Gregg did a great job building up the team to Qatar and had a great tournament. Part of the reason I say that is because they were a mediocre team that played well above their weight. Gregg gets credit for exceeding expectations that were subterranean to start with.

        The Qatar team is unusual because the core is so young. Most here assume our kiddie kore will be peaking by 2026.

        But y’all forget that works both ways. Four years is a long time in soccer.

        Overall the USMNT core is promising.

        That’s code for no one is sure how good or bad they might be in 2-3 years.

        I don’t see a lot of potentially game changing duals out there like Balogun.
        Of course, going by the fans, we should be drowning in world class academy produced Americans in about a year or two.
        Some are already hailing the Modesto Messi ( Cowell) and likening Paxton to Kai Havertz
        I remain a little reserved about that. I’d like to see Paxton equal his brother first. That should be a low bar.

        Which is why the new manager could be a game changing hire.

        Ideally, they will understand what it means to be a national team manager. Hopefully, they will understand the limits of our talent pool and be great at figuring out how to make the most out of it.

        All of that said we remain the dominant team in CONCACAF. Fuck Mexico and Canada. Just ask Hugo Perez. I don’t expect that we will win every CONCACAF game we play. But we should.

        Anyone who thinks otherwise is full of shit.

        Using the order of finish in either the old Hex or the new Octagon as the determinant of “dominance” shows how little you pay attention to what the order of finish really means.

        In those WC qualifying tournaments, once you get to the point where mathematically you are guaranteed at least third place, everyone is relieved, job done.

        Sometimes it happens with one or two games left.
        Those games give you a chance to rest your regulars and give your other players a chance at a competitive game.
        You can do this because there is no benefit to finishing higher than #3.
        The important thing is you auto-qualify and you avoid the playoffs.

        “i am saying turn over some rocks instead of having the sole goal be using regulars to chase trophies on the assumption we cannot possibly do any different or better. other US teams have done this before. gold cups used to be more of a B/C tryout camp.
        i am not saying we shouldn’t try to win. we should try to win every game. i am saying end the insecure assumption we cannot experiment and win. carve out a few games and see what else we have. i think that will help the team be better as the high performers can be integrated and replace poor performing regulars. i never said dump the core.
        i said make people compete for the team. that will act more around the edges really.”

        I’ve got news for you. What you just wrote is all mealy mouthed boiler plate cliché sloganeering.

        It’s on the same level as telling us the Netherlands beat us because they scored more goals. Tell us something we don’t know.

        Yet for all that, every USMNT manager, to a greater or lesser degree, has tried to do all that mealy mouthed bullshit.

        You may think the managers have some wacko agenda but the truth is, with the help of your 20/20 hindsight and from the safety of your couch you just did not approve of how they went about it.

        Every USMNT manager makes players compete for spots.

        But because a national team is an all star team with an extremely small window for practices and tryouts, compared to club teams, the boilerplate conventional methods you prefer may not be possible.

        I wanted Gregg fired after the 2019 Gold Cup and think of him as a mediocre manager at best. However, he did very well at the World Cup.. Like every USMNT manager before him, I’m sure Gregg always played the players and used the tactics he felt gave the team the best chance to win or at least get better.

        Not that he didn’t often wind up shooting himself in the ass but I’m sure he meant well.

    • Mr. IV,

      You’re the one who wants our players to settle for mediocre clubs where they won’t be challenged and can get guaranteed playing time, Settle for mediocrity, now there’s a recipe for success at the international level.

      Trying to have it both ways doesn’t often work out that well..

      “or, put differently, have an actual roster competition. the funny thing is the people pushing how hard it is to make the field for x club sometimes seem the least interested in creating that same environment for the NT. for the Nats they want to hand it to the incumbents. how about make them earn it?”

      Easy for you to say.
      No one opposes the idea of “actual roster competition”.

      However, there are practical considerations. How do you propose to create the same environment in competing for places for the USMNT as these players face at their club?
      You don’t understand international soccer.
      You still think of the USMNT as a club. You think we own the players and can do what we want with them, when we want to.
      We don’t own them and we can’t just do whatever we please whenever we want.
      We’re borrowing them.
      Think of yourself as that annoying entitled asshole brother-in-law who is always borrowing his sister’s van, pickup or whatever vehicle for the weekend without necessarily giving her advance notice or sometimes any notice.

      Oh and most players are more “delicate” and much more expensive that a Silverado or a Transit Van.

      Every player comes with a certain set of conditions on their availability that you need to honor, requirements that need to be addressed before you can just take them.

      There are maybe 50 or so players who could be seen as legit candidates for a spot on the USMNT roster for their next legit tournament, Copa America.

      That tournament is shaping up as a great test bed for the new manager and their new team.

      Taking all that into account, tell us how you propose to set up an actual roster competition for our 50 candidates that is a strenuous as the one they face “to make the field for X club” between now and next summer, when Copa America is played?

      And just remember, soccer is a very physical game.

      No matter how well you plan, injuries are unpredictable and are just a fact of life.
      And they can utterly ruin your plans in a heartbeat.
      They are more of an issue with us these days because our players are playing more than they used to. One of the perks of success.

      Reply
    • New players in the 4 matches since WC: Sonora, Zendajas, Balogun, Booth, Jones, Gressell, Trusty, AMorris, Neal, Slonina, Rogers, Tolkin, Sabbi, Vazquez and Wiley. Players with a handful of caps who were brought back: Pomykal, Cowell, Gomez, Hoppe
      Players who dressed but did not play: Celentano, Callender
      Over 20 players that weren’t in the discussion in November that have already been given “tryouts”. Plus many others that are on provisional rosters for NL or GC, like Tessman, Reynolds, T. Tillman, Fossey, EPB, Wydner, Ledezma, Mihailovic, Parks, Ebobisse, Pefok that were not in the picture last fall. How many countries are going to try 30 new players within 6 months of Qatar?

      Reply
    • Mr. Voice,

      By the way, if you really want to “trial” a player, my view is the very bare minimum is a full game or at least 60-70 minutes. And you want to see them playing with guys who are as close to the A team as you can get.

      You want to see them when we have the lead, when we are down a goal, when they are tired, and when they are fresh.
      You want to see them start. You want to see them sub in. You want to see them after they win and after they lose. You want to see them after they get sent off and after a fight.

      Ten-twenty minutes of garbage time with your scrubs and their scrubs on the field is often not very useful. I have seen players do that and literally never touch the ball.

      Factor that into how to properly trial these 27 or so new players you think they are negligent to not trial.

      If you are a club team over the course of a season you might be ale to do that but they have a lot more games and . especially , a lot more training sessions than the USMNT has.

      Since you spit on club form or performance, you’re giving “I’m Not Hudson” a pretty near impossible task.

      Reply
      • the summer tournaments are the best time to trial players as they can be run through weeks of practice, bedded into scheme, and as you suggest get substantial playing time in rotation. it is the 2-game windows that are the poor choice for experimentation — a few days of practice and then 180′ of time to divide among a full roster. we are getting it backwards.

        to me you want to peak at the end and not in a tournament year 2. that requires continuing to tweak tactics and rosters to the end.

      • btw i don’t “spit on” club performance. i think your rep or club work gets you in the door. once you cross that threshold it’s up to you to perform for the Nats, and that should be the primary evaluation tool — how you play for the US. i think it’s silly to be trying to revive club wonders who can’t do a thing for the US — the team being discussed.

        put differently, when someone has no caps it’s ok to “scout.” once they have a cap history the dominant factor should be “NT game performance.” you shouldn’t be able to pretend you are a no-cap kid wanting club scouting when you are a dozens-caps scrub with a bad cap history. that to me is perseveration.

      • Mr. Voice,

        “btw i don’t “spit on” club performance. i think your rep or club work gets you in the door. once you cross that threshold it’s up to you to perform for the Nats, and that should be the primary evaluation tool — how you play for the US. i think it’s silly to be trying to revive club wonders who can’t do a thing for the US — the team being discussed.”

        Bullshit, you’re the guy who thinks that club form doesn’t factor in.
        You think Julian Green should be capped because he scored in a friendly with France back in 2018. It was a Dave game and I’m pretty sure we did not get anywhere near France’s A game. They almost certainly did not give a fuck.

        So even when you have no idea what kind of club form Julian is in, five years later you want to bring him in this summer on the basis of that goal. That’s almost comical, except you’re serious.

        Of course, you spit on club form. You should embrace your inner arrogance.

        What makes you think how a player plays for the USMNT is not the primary evaluation tool?

        Just because a player did not do what YOU thought he should do for the USMNT in a game, that doesn’t mean the manager saw things the same way as you.

        Since December of 2018 the “primary evaluation tool” has been:

        “what does Gregg think of what he did?”

        NOT

        ” what does IV think of what he did.”

        The problem with this is that Gregg , and indeed most managers, were not always going to be 100% candid with us about the players and where they stand.

        You are not going to hear:

        “Yeah I know the majority 2019 Gold Cup squad weren’t going be in contention for Qatar (we’ve got some kids who should be coming up in another year or two, you’ll love them!) . but someone has to play in the Gold Cup, so these guys , all of whom I’m familiar with and will not give me any grief, were the best available players.

        Plus me and my staff we’re completely new at this so we need the practice And Jay says don’t worry about results, just get things going.”

        “put differently, when someone has no caps it’s ok to “scout.” once they have a cap history the dominant factor should be “NT game performance.” you shouldn’t be able to pretend you are a no-cap kid wanting club scouting when you are a dozens-caps scrub with a bad cap history. that to me is perseveration.”

        “run though weeks of practice” ???
        what makes you think that?

        The USMNT has the absolute worst SUMMER schedule in terms of evaluating new players. Depending on the schedule, a lot of these players could arrive in the NL or the GC or the big friendly, not being match fit because maybe their season ended weeks ago, and they are out of their normal training routine.

        Playing for the national team while you are also in season means you are more likely to be in game shape , more likely to play well and less likely to injure yourself.

        That’s because our summer is either friendlies with big teams on vacation in the US looking to party and relax and oh by the way making some money playing the USMNT .
        Real intense atmosphere there, IV. Very competitive.

        Or we are involved with our CONCACAF brethren in the NL or GC hoping to just survive the gauntlet of teams like Nicaragua, Grenada, Belize, Cuba, etc., etc.

        And the best part is we will do it with two almost completely separate teams. So basically a new guy will get maybe, at best, two or three games and then maybe come back a few months later in the fall if the manager is impressed.

        A guy like Balogun is probably going to have plenty of attention.

        But for the “normal” newbie being capped during the cattle call that is the USMNT summer schedule could easily result in being overlooked.

        Your methods are based on evaluating players for a club scenario.

        With a national team the process is far more flexible because the circumstances are, often, very different.

        Sometimes, the best way to evaluate some players might be to just throw them in the deep end in the middle of an important game. That’s what happened to Julian and to JAB.
        Both had little if any of the kind of prep time you want.
        Both got thrown in the deep end and both scored very important goals.
        A lot of you all hate JK and like to point out that both players haven’t done much since for the USMNT but that sort of proves my point.

        Brooks and Green did their job for the 2014 WC and that’s all they were supposed to do.

        You build a roster for THAT World Cup nothing else. Since we are on a 4 year cycle and will always have to significantly rebuild between World Cups, that’s the only way to handle it

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