The U.S. men’s national team’s hopes of reaching the Copa America knockout stage took a major hit Thursday night in Atlanta, Georgia.
Gregg Berhalter’s squad scored first through Folarin Balogun’s goal but watched as Panama fought back to down the Americans 2-1 in Group C play. Tim Weah’s ejection in the 19th minute reduced the USMNT to 10 men while Jose Fajardo’s 83rd minute goal proved to be the winning strike.
It marks Panama’s second-straight victory over the Americans in respective tournaments.
The USMNT thought it had an early advantage after Weston McKennie’s rebound effort was roofed into the top corner. Chris Richards’ header off of Christian Pulisic’s free kick was pushed off the crossbar before McKennie followed up the play inside of the box.
However, VAR overturned the goal due to Tim Ream playing the ball in an offsides position, keeping the score 0-0.
VAR would have another major decision to make in the first half and this time it went against the USMNT in a big way. Weah was sent off after receiving a straight red card for pushing Roderick Miller in the head as the two jostled for position.
Despite being down to 10-men, the USMNT grabbed a 1-0 lead in the 23rd minute. Antonee Robinson stole possession in the attacking third before laying off a pass to Balogun.
Balogun turned and ripped a left-footed shot off the right post and in to give the Americans an advantage. It marked his fourth senior goal with the USMNT.
However, the lead would only last three minutes as Panama tied things up at 1-1. The USMNT failed to clear Adalberto Carrasquilla’s pass, allowing Cesar Blackman to sneak a shot into the bottom-left corner.
Blackman’s shot deflected in off of Chris Richards’ leg, leaving Matt Turner to watch as the veteran defender celebrated with his teammates.
Ethan Horvath replaced Turner at halftime after the veteran goalkeeper collided with Blackman earlier in the half. The Cardiff City shot-stopper was tested early in the second half but punched away Edgardo Fariña’s powerful long-range shot.
VAR was called into action yet again after halftime substitute Cameron Carter-Vickers was whistled for a foul in the box. However, the penalty decision was overturned, keeping the score at 1-1.
Ricardo Pepi had a golden chance to boost the USMNT ahead in the 79th minute, but the substitute forward was unable to get enough power on his wide-open header in the box.
Panama would fight their way in front through Fajardo’s one-time finish in the 83rd minute. Abidel Ayarza’s pass allowed Fajardo to sneak in front of Carter-Vickers before rifling home past Horvath for a 2-1 lead.
Despite Carrasquilla being sent off for a hard foul on Christian Pulisic, Panama hung on for a second win over the USMNT in back-to-back years (2023 CONCACAF Gold Cup).
The USMNT closes group stage play on Monday, July 1 against Uruguay, needing a positive result to stay alive in the competition.
Papi Grande,
The powers that be know Gregg thoroughly at this point.
But the decision has been made long ago that they would stick with him until at least the 2026 WC and probably beyond.
Bombing out of Copa America isn’t going to change that.
Odds are, they will do much better than expected vs Uruguay and there will be all this talk about lessons learned and great togetherness of this brotherhood and all that other horseshit. Because right now there is probably no affordable, available, proven alternative to Gregg.
So they will bite the bullet, and lineup behind Gregg like they have for 6 years.
It will be interesting to see the numbers on Copa America should we in fact go out at this stage.
If the ratings drop dramatically then a case can be made that an extended run by the USMNT in the World Cup matters.
If they don’t then why spend mega bucks on bringing in some hot shot? Is the draw the USMNT or is it the Word Cup?
Gregg is affordable and a company guy. He’s not an uppity furriner pissing off the MLS cabal. They have him by the short hairs.
Fans on SBI have shown a willingness to suck up the piss these these people put out as justification for keeping Gregg around.
It should be obvious to all of you that the USSF doesn’t care about fielding the most competitive team they can. Either that or they truly don’t know how to go about it.
Anyway my prediction is Uruguay goes down a man in the 15th minute and still beats the USMNT 2-1.
i guess JR knows he is losing the tactical discussion so now he’s gonna nitpick exactly how long we played 441. as though that makes the 531 any more effective than that trash actually was.
i also find amusing the notion that DROPPING BACK into a 441 was unsustainable. it’s a vanilla 442 minus a forward. that is not inherently exhausting. it’s structurally sound. it double covers the wings. and we had 5 subs left — half the team.
you know what’s unsustainable and we know it for a fact? trying to bunker for a half in a formation that leaves most of the wings wide open.
“Based on what we saw in the Brazil friendly and Bolivia game, Turner would have saved the winning goal.”
Based on what we saw in THIS Panama game that’s unlikely.
Turner could have saved the first goal and he did not.
And that would have been an easier save than the winning goal which Ethan had zero time to react to.
I was waiting for Gregg to pull Turner after what was clearly a very hard fall. I think it may have affected him on the first goal but we’ll never know.
LOS,
“On my teams I was often called on to correct misconduct of opponents”
Jermaine Jones would have turned that Panamanian rooster into a hen.
The only guys in the pool who might have been suited to be an enforcer are DeAndre, and Kellyn but they weren’t there.
Weston is as well but he seems pretty caught up with other duties.
Still I noted that someone on Panama was not laid out shortly after the fact. Our guys don’t do dirty work I guess. Where is Beckerman when you need him?
LOL. For real. I remember the Germans – especially Bastian Schweinsteiger – were trying to wind Jermaine Jones up in Brazil because he’d always been prone to pushing it too far in the Bundesliga. So they kicked him repeatedly, only to discover the hard way Beckerman, not Jones, was the USA’s dedicated enforcer.
And Oh My did Beckerman ever get his money’s worth for the yellow he earned when he absolutely blew Schweinsteiger completely up a few minutes later. The Germans stopped kicking Jones after that.
Our current generation may be talented, but they could definitely use some of that nasty.
Beachbum, et al,
Quit whining about the ref and get over yourselves already.
The ref is not to blame for us losing to Panama.
Hold the federation, the HC, and the team, appropriately accountable.
No more excuses. This is a big boy tournament. No more meaningless CONCACAF trophies so that we can puff our chests out and pat ourselves on the back.
Losers make excuses and point fingers. Winners make shit happen and get things done.
Hey World Football,
Why so afraid to play the USA straight up without help? Why such betas? Afraid you might lose? Chicken shit MFs, lol
Yamashita and Barton, Coulibaly and, good grief, innumerable others. Why so afraid? You are world football, the best, the greatest of the soccer nations, so amazing and knowledgeable and wise to the ways of futbol…why so scared?
Afraid you might lose? Are your soft feelings that weak?
We DARE you to not fix the refs…DARE. Hahaha, such soccer betas…you can’t! and you won’t…because it’s your soccer culture, and you know it.
Until you do, you are soccer beta, and we dare you.
now back to your Coulibalyesque and Yamashitaesque and Bartonesque world of fixed soccer…gobble gobble gobble
lost in the shuffle and his HT exit, i should give balogun some credit for that cracker. and that’s 2 of those in 2 games. and i had been asking for, take some shots from the box perimeter. that’s working some if nothing else in the run of play offense.
I know this an apples and oranges comparison, but I can’t help myself… do you remember that champions league game, I think it was a semifinal vs Barca like 15 years ago… When John Terry got that stupid red card early in the game, and they won after being down a man probably the same amount of time?
I remember Didier Drogba alone up top of a 441 and he played like a man possessed and ran non-stop like his life depended on it…literally until he could no longer walk.
I.don’t think he scored the goal, but I remember how much his effort was like he was transformed into superman.
Like I said apples and oranges, but that level of commitment and effort was so awesome… I’d like to see some of that
HT exit? Balo played 72 minutes.
It is always easy to come down hard after a loss, but how realistic is it? Before the game, how many people thought we would dominate the game, like we did with Bolivia? I certainly didn’t. Even against Bolivia it was only 2-0. Did people expect us to defeat Panama 4-0 or 3-0 or whatever? If you did, you need to come out of your cave more often. If I had been asked to pick a score before the game, I would have said US by 1-0 or 2-1. Panama has historically given us trouble. Look at the results since the 2014 WC cycle, ignoring friendlies, and not counting shootouts, our most likely outcome with Panama has been a draw. https://www.11v11.com/teams/usa/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Panama/ And, in tournament play, strange things can happen. Portugal lost 2-0 to Georgia. Costa Rica drew with Brazil. In a comparable situation, Ecuador vs. Venezuela, the game had a lot of similarities to the US vs. Panama. Ecuador went down a man early, then scored the first goal. Then, in the second half Venezuela scored 2 goals and won because they were a man up. Under the circumstances, a draw in the situation the US was in, would have been an unofficial win. Any time a team is down a man, especially if it is for more than a half, unless the short handed team is way ahead, a draw is a great result. Posters here react as if a draw should have been a given and a win likely. That'[s not how soccer works.
Tbf, the last A-team competitive match against Panama finished USA 5-1 Panama.
we beat panama 6-2 and 5-1 in recent years. we did lose at their place and with the Bs, but this was the As at home. jamaica beat panama for 4th place after we barely beat jamaica. mexico beat panama 3-0 in NL in the semi. uruguay beat panama 3-1 the other day. people are spouting complete trash to make excuses.
if you look at the long arc of history, when the US was first getting rolling in the 1990s, we would hit and miss these second tier concacaf teams and thus got all excited about caligiuri beating TnT just to make the world cup. peak US 2002-2010 or so we got where the only teams we would lose to were mexico or CR — and that usually at their place. with the weak developmental class of the 2010s we started losing again to mexico and CR at our place, and possibly to everyone first and second tier away.
people have not reconciled our WCQ finish with our regional tournament success. i can explain it to you. we play tournaments only at home. the tournaments do not reflect our “TnT away” problem. and that’s not even getting into our “good team” problem. both together complicate the picture fanboys want to present. to me this isn’t even up to 02 or 10 standards. if you look around in the neighborhood of those teams you will find germany friendly wins, peak spain tournament wins, etc.
i feel like people are pushing complete malarkey. you compare our roster to anyone in the region and we have 10-15 guys in the sort of leagues everyone else has like 1-5 people. we are not weak. we are loaded compared to everyone in the region. we are loaded at probably a top 10-15 level worldwide. we are not the most loaded team but we have been better than this with far less. there are non-loaded teams making world cup semis. cut the crap.
to me the dude did get this back to qualifying level, but then arena had this within 1-2 points of doing that last time. go back and look at a 2017 lineup. the talent is exponentially better. the results are just incrementally better and we can’t even routinely beat TnT or panama or the like. much less progress upwards as the talent suggests
do the math how that happens.
coaching.
Gary,
“Any time a team is down a man, especially if it is for more than a half, unless the short handed team is way ahead, a draw is a great result. Posters here react as if a draw should have been a given and a win likely.”
?? The USMNT did not draw. They lost.
Correct. I generally ignore 99% of the fan rant posts. Simplistic, emotional and predictable in every country, league in the world. The way it is. Not only did we lose we actually went up a goal. If there ever was a time for folks to be critical it’s this match IMO. The adjustments were questionable. A tie was there. Yes, Barton was horrible but between adjustments, subs, players we just were not up to it. We couldn’t fight through it. It was a lot to overcome but we couldn’t. I have generally ignored and even defended GB against the FANATICS, but we just can’t push through at this point. Something is missing. This isn’t change for changes sake. Something is simply missing. Starts with the USSF and the constant give a coach two cycles. IT HAS NEVER EVER WORKED. Arena, Bradley, Con Man JK, and now this. Why?
A decent portion of US fans have always over estimated our team and underestimated others that aren’t glamor picks. Just the way it is. The soccer world is so small now. Weaker teams have the tactics, scouting and coaches that can keep most games close. Fans comes from the word fanatics fora reason. It is not complimentary IMO.
Still….team clearly has lost something. To comfortable, need new ideas, etc. The USSF giving coaches a 2nd cycle every time is the stupidest thing they do. Sadly predictable here. GB should be called out on the continued foolishness and lack of discipline recently by players (to comfortable? Lack of respect for opponent?) and I think poor adjustments in this match. Even though it was 11 vs ten I liked few of his moves. This one is justifiably bad.
Barton? Just so sad. We knew it was gonna be bad…always is but damn.
How can you respect the game in this country when this is continually what u see from one ref. This is not a one of. This is who he is.He is that bad. Yet here he is. Sucks. Sad part of being a fan here. We don’t have the juice to change this like we would in other sports. Sad, cold hard truth. It’s always gonna be an uphill climb to be a US MEN’s fan no matter how much improves from where it was across the board in this country years ago. I said it 30-40 years ago and it holds treu today…gonna be a long, long hard slog. We will get there but I probably will not be alive. Just the way it is.
Oh yeah….US men will not get paid for the Olympics but the woman will? Equity! The hypocrisy and double standard over these last few years has been impressive.
you post some insightful stuff imho. absolutely on the slog, have said the same thing for as long. and excusing nothing from the US performance:
it was 10 vs. AT LEAST 12.
Barton is but one in a line of examples…you’ve been around that long so you know.
why do you think he got this game? why did Yamashita, the first female official for a men’s World Cup game in Qatar, get the USWNT vs Netherlands fiasco payback assignment? it’s the toughest part of the slog…easiest game in the world to fix is soccer. and as we all know, world football is world class corrupt, and they hate us. that’s a rough equation that we have always had to operate in, except:
Klinsmann’s one saving grace was the regional powers showed him respect with even officiating…noted it and called it out repeatedly during his time. He’s gone tho, so that variable he brought to the US soccer equation is gone too.
Anyway, all the players here who see their goalie get trucked, on purpose fully exposed with arms up, injured, to start the game, and then every counter is a hack down with no card (we call that getting Yamashita’d in our soccer world), and dives are rewarded with whistles and cards and PKs, and on and on and on…it’s a great drinking game but even the most hard core will stumble blind drunk
oh yeah, and let’s not forget, again, as usual, it’s the 2nd game of the group…yawning at world football’s boring pattern 🙂
Beachbum: yes Barton is bad, but nothing that happened should have forced Weah to punch a guy 17 minutes in. If you’ve watched much of the other Copa matches the officials have been very reluctant to give yellows in the first half.
Tim Ream (from mix-zone paraphrased): The switch to the 5 in the back was because in the first half Gio and CP (the wide players in the 4-4-1) were getting pushed deep by Panama’s width putting the US in almost a six man back line. That was the reason so that CP could play higher and they’d have another option to play out to. It worked for the most part until the very end.
—————————
Of course that’s right after the match, when he goes back and sees it on film he might see it differently.
then ream isn’t half as bright a soccer mind as advertised, because what i saw was when we switched from 441 to 531 the wing play dried up entirely. which is kind of what that formation change does.
no, they would have to track back as all wings sometimes do, but they would also get forward, which stopped.
it also handed panama the early part of the wing free and clear, which i think is bad. a long term beef of mine with the 433 based on my dynamo is if there are no shifts and the forward doesn’t track back, these 3 mid formations premised on keeping the center tight tend to leave the first 80+ yards of wing green space wide open. i don’t think 3 mid things really work unless you have a sort of dutch soccer idea of just outscoring the opponent in a no defense end to end game. which our wingbacks reflect but not our MF choices.
they then scored the winner off a near post shot off a cross. our wingbacks in the 5 man were pinned back until we had to play to catch up, and as i have often noticed, 3 CB can have an issue deciding who covers what. cause to me who has 5 backs and lets a guy win the run to a near post service.
I gotta think he’s either covering for them as the elder statesman or he’s gonna change his mind when he goes back and watches
IV: down a man you’re giving up something. They were getting everything down the wings in the first half. You know they’re in their locker room talking about how to be better using their width advantage so you want to come out with something different. Certainly Panama was confused for the first 15-20 minutes after the change.
– you could have stayed with the 4-4-1 until 60 or 65 and then subbed on CCV but then you’ve got to try to change formations on the fly when you haven’t reviewed responsibilities since halftime.
– on the goal there wasn’t confusion on who to mark, CCV is standing next to Fajardo with a hand on him, Fajardo just reacts to the play quicker.
Bac to me it’s either a cult or they have reached the conclusion the man is untouchable. i have heard a grand total of 3 pool players in 6 years criticize the man, only 1 of whom gets called regularly anymore (scally). pomykal and miazga being the others.
compare that with klinsi circa guatemala.
some point they need to figure out while he currently controls their NT fate, he is wasting it, and a good percentage of them would be back under the next coach. to me previous player pools better understood their own power, and while generally professional (it took decades to unravel wynalda/sampson/wegerle) were not mute.
if they want something else, ask. if that person says no, then they can get that person fired also when this whole thing blows up. nothing about this bureaucratic mess of bosses and bosses and bosses is working.
JR dude i can map out a decision tree without activating it. in plain english, i can tell the players, we will go back out there 441 for a while. that at some point in the half i may signal to switch 531 and give out who will be where and how to execute it. that if we give up a goal, we will shift to x formation and i will make y subs.
i dunno, you seem to be suggesting there is some dramatic difference between telling them to do y and immediately switching to y, vs. telling them what you want from y but saying for the time being keep doing x. it’s literally the same halftime speech except with “for now keep doing x.” which they already understood how to do.
and to me the most mystifying aspect of this debate is WE ALREADY KNOW IT BLEW UP. when that is the known failure analysis upfront — we know why the plane crashed — last thing i am doing is defending the plane crash before i consider how else this could have been handled. i’m only saying that if i can’t think of how we win it.
we both know they were getting their chances late first half. we both know we could mount some offense at the end. we both know PAN got their own red. ok, so it was winnable. the plane could have been landed. he;’s just not the pilot to do it. every switch he flipped backfired.
Even from the little I saw, I do not think I would say that it “worked until the very end”. They were deep, flat, still had trouble tracking runs and getting support and were completely disconnected from the midfield.
Didn’t get to see all of this, in fact I missed all of the goals and the red card. But from the bits I did see it seemed Weah made a stupid impulsive decision, 5 in the back was a tactical disaster, and CCV was terrible. From the other comments here it seems that about sums it up.
Sigh.
Just a total fiasco.
2nd half tactics totally wrong.
Substitutions. Wrong.
No energy in midfield all 2nd half.
Not even one scintilla of an attempt to continue to hold any possession, or to try to take the game to Panama.
Just concede the midfield to Panama and roll the dice hoping for a tie.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
And T. Weah. What on Earth were you thinking dear boy!!!! How, in any place, on this good green Earth, was that any kind of a strategic move aimed at helping your team win?
first half, in isolation i would say it’s player’s problem for committing a payback red, but that’s at least 4 reds in games that count in roughly a year, and we won 1 of those games because the other team got 2 reds as well. at that point of a pattern it’s the coach has failed as disciplinarian.
also, at a meta level, too many big games in recent years (world cup, etc.) come across as energy events of intensity as opposed to the culmination of the execution of scheme or something we scouted. and i know big games can get crazy but the idea is beneath all the clashes and cards there is some calm concept we are trying to execute. because these games do eventually settle down. no, we struggle to even score on wales or iran in these games because there is no “there” beneath it.
which is ironic for a regime selling that the old style was all blood and guts and bunkering but we’re offering a door out. to me the man was an arena protege and this is rarely that technical.
Well. I too have now watched it back, with gritted teeth. In Spanish, after watching (or covering my eyes) live in English.
My overall impression as a layperson, unchanged from my first impression, was that I thought I saw a lot of guys trying their best. So it seemed unfair and unkind for almost the whole Fox studio crew to have come down on them so hard afterward. Especially Alexi Lalas. I hate to criticize a fellow English major, and one who bravely tackles foreign names. But … he just seems to have a mean streak, and to relish cranking it up rather than down, not unlike a certain politician. I know the studio probably encourages him to create conflict, as conflict these days seems to engage a certain type of viewer. Still, John Strong and Stu Holden seemed much more balanced, and more understanding, trying to say things that would actually encourage the players, while not disguising the problems.
As for the other ex-players, who were all critical, yet measured, not unkind — Balboa, Dempsey, Blas Pérez, Carli Lloyd — yes, the Americans all seem to favor a change from Berhalter. But so far at least, I don’t know whom they would suggest who would be any better. (I sure don’t want to go back to Bruce Arena, for instance, even though it might be better for the defense for a while.) It brought to mind Harry Kane’s recent response to criticism from English ex-players. It just seems awfully easy for them to carp and criticize from the comfort of a studio, years or decades after they played, when they never excelled in major tournaments either. (Well, the men.)
But since several of you know more about the details, and the details may really be what matter, what do you think?
My Q: overall, was this one result _primarily_ the fault of poor coaching, or (“just“) individual skill and concentration?
1) sheer bad luck, small margins, etc.
Thanks to Johnnyr for the statistics. The whole tournament seems to just hinge on so many small points that to me don’t seem directly related to coaching. Even though it’s a huge business, it’s still just a game.
2) that Concacaf ref
Thanks again to Johnnyr for the history. Surely the lack of any card at all for the guy who barged into Turner was a big part of what made Weah lose his head and see red. And the timekeeping was indeed atrocious, including letting Carrasquilla stand around for 3 minutes and not adding them to the 4 at the end.
3) heading of the ball
As I’ve said, the Univisión play-by-play guy Dani Nohra isn’t my favorite, because of his high-pitched and frenetic tone of voice. (And after I mentioned that a while ago, Ramsés Sandoval, who used to be better, started using a really fake _low_-pitched voice, unlike his natural pleasant baritone — no, no, no.)
But one observation Nohra made today even in the first half was something I had been wondering myself: Why was there so much useless head tennis in the midfield battles? My Q: Is the skill of bringing a ball down to the ground and controlling it just too difficult, or was it this time partly because Panama just had so many tall guys, or what?
Anyway, I really noticed it near the very end, when Sargent was the only guy to successfully chest down a ball and play it on the ground. He seemed to do well for the short time he was out there.
4) that back line
Ream and Richards both seemed to miss more than usual, and then there was that sad miss by Carter-Vickers for the Panama winning goal. (Though Ream also seemed a bit lost there, watching the cross come in and not turning back to mark anyone.)
At the half, Marcelo Balboa had predicted they might have trouble with 5 at the back, because they weren’t used to it, and he was right. Is that a coaching issue? My Q: Is Berhalter the only defense coach, or is there an assistant coach for that?
At the very end, why did all the incoming balls seem to target Richards? The ball kept getting lost by 1 US guy surrounded by Panamanian guys ready to dash back the other way. My Qs: If this is a coaching issue, isn’t it the set-piece coach? Also: If Palace is playing Richards as a defensive midfielder, is it a questionable coaching choice to put him in as a centerback? Or was there really no one else better?
5) players who seemed to give everything they could
Antonee Robinson was so good, as so often.
Christian Pulisic was wonderful several times — a bit invisible after he had to mostly be defending, but surely that wasn’t his fault. And he even (almost) kept his head after that dangerous tackle by Carrasquilla, though I’d like to have had a lip reader to know what he said to the jerk.
Balogun did really well, and I agree that in retrospect he might have been taken off too early. (Q: Why can’t Balboa pronounce his name?)
McKennie I thought played his heart out. He didn’t win everything, but he sure was in there trying. He still didn’t look cheerful or hopeful, but he didn’t seem to me to be slacking off. Some of the ex-players seemed to think he was a little slow, but I sure hope he gets a good coach and club team soon, or that Motta sees his value at Juve.
Reyna had a pretty good first half, but vanished afterward, not unlike Adams. Would they have both played better and longer if they had been given more minutes earlier? Or might they have had injuries again? Hard for the coach to predict, surely.
Matt Turner was pretty good while he lasted. Horvath maybe let the goal slip through his hands, but by that time the game seemed beyond any one person’s control.
Johnnyr:
“Do we think Turner’s knee affects him on the goal?”
Bac:
“Keller said knowing that, a keeper going up without a knee up is naive.”
Sorry?
I also don’t know why not Musah, and yes, that seems to be a coaching choice. But, 20-20 hindsight.
6) mindset / overall
Johnnyr:
“The message shouldn’t have been, ‘Let’s be physical right back’; it should have been ‘We’re better than these guys, don’t play at their level. Be professionals, get the result.’ ”
Gary:
“Given the circumstances, I thought we did about as well as we could.”
Hear, hear.
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Tejana, was that cathartic? Trying to figure out ways to blame the ref is my coping mechanism. Still in mourning, though.
Tejana: Richards question:
Richards made 18 starts at CB and 8 starts at DM. Palace had several injuries to their DMs that’s when they played him in midfield. When their starting CB got injured they moved Chris back to CB and later went to a 3 CB formation.
Tejana, re: Casey Keller
On the ESPN postgame he talked about how when he was in goal especially vs concacaf opponents any high ball that came in his area he would go up to get it with one knee raised, how keepers are taught to protect themselves.
That way if there was ever a potential challenge when he yelled Keeper the other team knew he was coming out with a knee up ready to floor anyone
yes. yes. yes. i feel like they are not being taught a lot of the little things.
example: i am watching italy the other day. down 0-1 to croatia and headed out. dude dribbles up the middle. and unlike us he wait until he can commit the defense to make his wide pass, leads him behind the defense. trap, shot far post, goal. tie game, italy through.
US makes that run it would either have not dribbled and passed it way early. or it sets up a cross wide with a premature pass instead of committing the defense and using the pass to put defenders wrong side of the play.
to me they are being taught to play tentative soccer. and they are either like red card nuts or passive. good soccer is in between there, aggressive on the dribble, stuck in on the tackle. commit defenders on offense, find the open man. if someone shows you the ball on defense, have good man markers on and they draw back a stump.
Just finished watching multiple post game podcasts, (love listening to Dempsey btw) and outside of the obvious red card some interesting stuff, collectively summarized:
1. They looked better in that 4-4-1 than the 5 man backline.
Going to the back 5 at half was like conceding a low block for a lower block.
It invited deeper pressure, which was then made worse by taking Reyna out, because he can hold the ball, draw fouls, etc.
And probably done too early, like waving the white flag coming out of the locker room.
Apparently the Johnny for Adams switch was preplanned, again makes one question that strategy when taking Reyna out at the same time. Oh by the way, there’s that Musah dude who didn’t make it off the bench, strong guy who can also hold the ball.
2. If they’ve never practiced that back 5, it showed.
I’m addition, CCV as the CB was tactically not great, he also played poorly. You’re bringing in someone that’s not a starter and putting him in the most important spot to keep an already questionable formation organized. One we.have no idea If they’ve even practiced. Another mistake, compounded by the fact that you take out Reyna and don’t play Musah, 2 guys that would most likely has a better chance of relieving pressure. It was
like conceding an entire half in your own third as opposed to at least a better chance of slowing the game down.
3. Not only was Balo still playing well, still running & looked like he still had some gas left in the tank, Pepi is NOT the guy you replace him with. He’s not a guy that’s gonna relieve pressure or draw fouls, he’s not a guy with a great motor, he’s a poacher type (who for now forgot how to poach)now
One person said if he was gonna take Balo out he could have brought in Musah or Aaronson and left Pulisic up top. And/or kept Reyna in longer.
4. Personnel wise, not using Musah is mind boggling. Not using Aaronson (primarily because you changed to a back 5 and had to replace Turner)
is not as mind boggling but a poor decision nonetheless.
5. Did we see the kind of grit it takes to play through that kind of disadvantage? ( In the example I watched I learned that Deuce for all his toughness etc. never got a red card for us, or in his time in Europe)
And a point from Lalas: The players have talked about being a family and are 100% invested in the coach and each other and blah blah blah, did it look like they were fighting like that?
6. If the decision to keep Adams on a clock count was predetermined, was the halftime switch remotely effective? Does the coach get so set in his predetermined plan that he doesn’t know how to adjust?I
7. Even though the ref is a well known putz, shouldn’t we be prepared for a well known putz? And Keller said knowing that, a keeper going up without a knee up is naive. He didn’t seem impressed with Turner tonight, and thought that may have affected his ability to stretch and get a hand on that first goal.
I disagree with a few pundits who said Jedi had a poor game, and even though Horvath got a hand on the ball I can’t say that was an easy save.
The rest of it to me shows my already poor opinion of the coach wasn’t changed (shockingly)
That’s a collective synopsis of what I just watched.
Thoughts?
to me we were not giving up a ton of chances 441 and were occasionally getting out ourselves. that’s what you get watching the actual game. i half wonder if GB flips out looking at formations from some high cam on his little ipad. we looked fine, it was too early to bunker, and he overreacted. it would be different if they were raining chances on us first half but it wasn’t that bad. he just does dumb stuff like this in the abstract and blows games, eg swiss, germany.
kind of like i say evaluate players more for NT performance, there needs to be more attention paid to how the scheme is working on the field.
i did feel like this game underlined the downside to carrying hurt players. adams going off helped change the competitiveness of the game. some would say, but he helped a half, but you get 45 minutes from a dude in a loss when we needed all hands on deck. and the broader problem remains the lack of other 6 options. i thought musah was good there but per usual he has forgotten like a dream the last idea that worked. so who else? his only other idea seems to be johnny and that’s not going so well. i think this summer would have been better used identifying and evaluating options at 6 but we are so obsessed with chasing every possible W even when in reality this is a mess that needs sorting, that is not winning copa america.
similarly, he got on sargent who then contributed a foul, whoop de do for carrying that hurt player. we needed instant offense and he seemed behind the speed of play.
the broader problem to me, re your lalas comment, is coach and fed are too tight. it disturbs me there is little internal critique of the man. it disturbs me the fed just seems to be skipping down the lane like this is ok. setting aside i never believed in his particular project, one danger in allowing subjective projects with a bunch of leeway is there is no accountability to promises and expectations, and no timeline for the final fix.
personally i think it’s beyond stupid to hire an adult NT coach claiming he will impose soccer style changes on a team and country. adult NT coaches are for tactics the players can execute now. youth coaches are for i wish the kids in that country played different. GB’s job is really to help this team win a few more than we expected, and he’s horrible at that.
soccer here needs to go back to what wins games.
Bac,
“( In the example I watched I learned that Deuce for all his toughness etc. never got a red card for us, or in his time in Europe)”
Not surprising.
Playing the positions he did, committing fouls was not necessarily part of his job description. Clint was always a heady, disciplined player, meaning his focus was entirely on scoring goals. Most of our kids , like Timo, don’t have Clint’s focus.
You know who else had focus? Jermaine Jones . The USMNT’s enforcer, designated psycho and legit tough guy; in 69 caps he had one red card.
Both Clint and JJ were smart, savvy, disciplined players, unlike most of the current Copa America team.
I went back and watched (because I’m a sicko)
62:15 when Barton signals the penalty 66:15 when he drops the ball for Horvath.
86:15 He whistles the foul on Coco and melee ensues 88:15 he signals ready for play. That’s 6 minutes. Four different substitutions. Should have been at least 6 minutes maybe 8.
————————————
Do we think Turner’s knee affects him on the goal?
————————————
IV: with “what’s he looking at on the iPad?” It’s right at the same time they released the Offside VAR animation from the disallowed goal and Bj clearly calls him over. I’d assume the teams would get those as well or they were looking at replays of the collision.
this is really not that complicated. a U6 bunchball coach would be away from his ipad and screaming at the poor $10/hr center about you don’t get to clobber my keeper even after they caught the ball. he would not be still on his ipad like he’s working his way through his email inbox or something.
blunter? i can maybe get the ref to look at the call that just happened. but i am instead going to be verifying the near-goal already run through the process and disallowed?????????
priorities
They don’t show Gregg until after the trainers are out there and Horvath is already warming up. When they finally show Gregg he is standing and Bj calls him over to look at something. It’s at least a minute maybe 2 or 3, and the actual ref is 60 yds away. It’s 12 minutes into the match, hadn’t been overly chippy up to that point. Flipping out over that non-yellow would have just made you look like a fool. You also can’t get him to look at anything, coaches in soccer don’t have a challenge flag. It’s only reviewable for a red card missed, which it clearly was not.
JT you’re confusing ref standards with coaching politics. what coach do you know of who strictly adheres to video review rules or even the likelihood of getting that specific call fixed, in terms of whether he beefs? half the reason to beef is to politic for the NEXT CALL. to set up some call 5 minutes later. to set up the coco red later on. i want the ref to fix the call. but if he doesn’t fix it i want him to watch the video and say to himself, darn it, i missed it, but i can’t fix that. he then owes me.
that and you’re assuming it’s done and dusted. we had a couple video reviews including a PK taken back. you politic the linesman or 4th and maybe they wave a flag and say, woah, he’s right, the keeper had caught it and he slammed into him.
or he can be on his ipad. and then 5 seconds later his field player decides to go vigilante. like i said, the one red i ever got, in college, was a road game where i felt hometowned on consecutive attacking plays, and my coach wasn’t yelling and my captain was quiet per usual, and i was going to convey my 2 cents if they weren’t. it’s not even just the politics. it’s your team feels defended……just like i want people to run up and get in faces when they foul the other guys.
I have never been a Berhalter apologist. I try to remain objective. I think people are making much, too much out of this loss. The red card by Weah was stupid and only the fault of Weah, not anyone else. It wasn’t the fault of the team or the coach. It’s not like Weah should not have been playing since he has been one of our more consistent contributors. The red card totally changed the nature of the game, as it usually does. The fact that we scored with only 10 and came close a couple more times is actually rather promising. I would have kept Balogun out there longer, but that wasn’t what cost us the game. As for the other subs, a lot depends on who had the most fatigue and needed to be subbed and who had a replacement closest in ability to the man he replaced. We got as far as the 83rd minute and still had a shot at the end. Given the circumstances, I thought we did about as well as we could. Panama has given us trouble in the past even when we had 11 for the whole game.
“Given the circumstances, I thought we did about as well as we could.”
The same game looked different to me.
The red card was the player’s fault but the response to it? That is entirely on Gregg and the remaining players. And it looked to me like they had not prepared for the possibility of going down a man. And that is NOT Timo’s fault.
Gregg and his boys, in perfect harmony, snatched defeat from the jaws of a draw or even victory. The players all wanted Uncle Gregg back and, it’s a great, tight locker room but when they needed him the most, what did he have for them? They gave that game away. Another way to look at a tight locker room is that it makes for a great echo chamber.
The USMNT’s job was to win or at least tie this game. They failed to do that.
In doing so they confirmed that they do not respond well to adversity. Good teams adapt to bad circumstances. After going down a man, they failed to adapt.
None of the subs worked out, leaving CP to work alone. They wasted a heroic performance by Flo. Gregg went full defensive and tried to sit on the ball for a half while down a man in a tied game. Really?
This was a for real game, not a friendly. They proved that, when it is all for real, they are a soft, shitty, undisciplined and poorly coached team. They have a shitty manager and are shitty players. First it was Sergino, now it’s Timo. So who is next to lose their cool when it really matters?
I judge any employee’s manager by how the employee behaves under pressure.
They’ll improve against Uruguay, probably enough so that the USSF can say
” this was a growing and learning experience.” and that they have faith that Greg and his locker room can work it out for 2026.
“This was a for real game, not a friendly. They proved that, when it is all for real, they are a soft, shitty, undisciplined and poorly coached team. They have a shitty manager and are shitty players. First it was Sergino, now it’s Timo. So who is next to lose their cool when it really matters?
I judge any employee’s manager by how the employee behaves under pressure.”
Spot on. Truer words ne’er spake.
I don’t think they have sh!tty players, I think they have a very good group of players that have yet to consistently performed as a team.
I do agree with your assessment of the coach
Bac,
You’re right.
We have talented players who are capable of more yet they play shitty for this manager and the USMNT.
That would be a better way to put it.
Well the good news is Uruguay just has to avoid blowing a plus 6 lead, so they can rest a lot of players.
which btw underlines that 2-0 was soft
Yup, who would have thought that not finishing more in that game may actually come back to hurt us.
We could win the last game and still not go through
Well, All I can say is Good Luck against Uruguay.
I guess our failure to get more foals against Bolivia may come back to bite us in the butt big time. Our team really lacks situational awareness, self awareness, any awateness….
Speaking of awareness, was Gregg aware how rusty Horgath was? Sean Johnson is a regular starter in MLS and may have been the better choice.
Horvath played way more than Turner did last season.
to me half the problem with this team is it’s like we reset every window and forget everything we learned. what happened to wright? what happened to reyna at 10? what happened to 42121? what happened to musah as 6? what happened to lund?
“roster competition” is getting some traction finally, but how about “let’s go with what works?”
we have the institutional memory of a gnat. and this was true as far back as 2019. the man has these theoretical ideas in his head constantly at crosspurposes with how the games go. eg 433, steffen as keeper, sweeper keeper in general, bradley, omar, zardes, jozy, trapp/yeuill, passing 6s, double 8s, benching reyna, etc. etc.
Another game in which a player makes a STUPID off the ball foul and gets ejected. Weah, Dest, McKennie have all been baited into stupid, retaliatory fouls and/or displays of decent (Dest) in recent memory. These guys are too experienced in club, international, and specifically CONCACAF games to believe they can get away with it. This is 50/50 owned by the players and the coaches.
Another game where the XI wasn’t ready at the start of the game. That is 100% on the coaching staff.
Another game of crap tactics and in-game management (subs) which is also 100% on the coaching staff.
–
At this point our chances of advancing out of the group phase is very slim and at least two thirds of our problems can be attributed to the coaches (Gregg). If we do fail to progress (which I expect) than USSF needs to FIRE Berhaulter and get a decent manager with a coaching pedigree; doesn’t have to be Pep, Klopp, or other dream candidates, but it has to be someone with a good track record.
If they don’t make it out of the group, I can’t see him not getting fired. Getting someone better is another story; it is not a very coveted position.
Can they get someone worse??
lol this is the USSF they do what they want. Players, fans, pundits and logic be dammed. Discipline falls on the coach. But Berhalter isn’t going anywhere he’s part of the club.
There are many that I consider worse. Jason Kreis and Caleb Porter are two that come to mind that have coached for the US. However bad you think Gregg is, there could always be someone worse.
Richie Williams and Andy Herzog , oh oh Thomas Rongen.
I think they’re now in talks to give him an extension
Papi and Tele: I put myself through the Fever game because apparently I’m a masochist. Christie Sides is 100% worse than Berhalter.
i pointed out on the game thread GB after the turner foul that eventually took out his keeper and helped cost us the game, the man is sitting there on his ipad. did the attacker get a card? i didn’t see one. how are not in the ear of the line-o and 4th official and center that your keeper just got violently plowed after catching the ball? how are you on your ipad?
i say this in part because i feel like coaches serve as a safety valve of sorts with their referee-politicking and screaming. if the coach is taking care of it, maybe i don’t need to yell stupid things or go pay someone back.
i know the one time i got a red ever, after getting hacked down twice on consecutive plays in the box, and my coach isn’t saying much, and my captain isn’t woodshedding the ref, i was like, i am going to say something. which is still my fault.
someone senior needed to vent that a card should have been given, and then told people to calm the heck down and play soccer. half the test of concacaf is not being the team that flips out. if we hadn’t flipped out eventually panama loses it.
completely agree. the Turner situation demands that the coach stand up for the safety of the player. sometimes that means screaming enough to get carded. sometimes it needs to be done.
Where & When I played in the 80’s soccer took a page or 2 from the Hockey playbook. We usually had a designated player (or 2) who were enforcers when the refs lost control of the game.
On my teams I was often called on to correct misconduct of opponents. If someone ran over my keeper or hacked one of my skill players down viscously it was my job to balance accounts. But you did it intelligently. You noted the player and you got retribution 5-10 minutes later. You did it in a way where you my get a card….but at least it wouldn’t be a RED.
LOS,
“On my teams I was often called on to correct misconduct of opponents”
Jermaine Jones would have turned that Panamanian rooster into a hen.
The only guys in the pool who might have been suited to be an enforcer are DeAndre, and Kellyn but they weren’t there.
Weston is as well but he seems pretty caught up with other duties.
Still I noted that someone on Panama was not laid out shortly after the fact. Our guys don’t do dirty work I guess. Where is Beckerman when you need him?
I’m not one to complain about something like this, but good lord! How many of us cringed when they rolled out a CONCAFAF referee for a game in which one opponent is notorious for excessive fouling and dirty tactics? It is already comical how bad the officiating is in WCQ games, but c’mon, for Copa America? No caution for charging the goalie? What did Barton think was going to happen? Panama went into physical mode , knowing Barton had set the tone, until deep into injury time, he finally pulls out a red card for a painfully obvious chop on Pulisic. At that point, Panama had committed 17 fouls, many of them flagrent. What to do? Chop down McKennie. It is not enjoyable to watch.
Weah should’ve shown better discipline. He should’ve known his opponent would writh on the ground in pain until the booking occurred, then magically recover. That’s on Weah, and his teammates should chew him out. He’s been in enough WCQ games to understand the consequences.
PN,
Do you REALLY feel that the outcome of the game was significantly impacted by the ref?…such that we earned, or even deserved, 3 points, let alone 1 point?
This tournament was ALWAYS going to be a wake up call for US Soccer, Berhalter, and this team. Guess what, the morning alarm has gone off.
Papi,
I definitely feel this game was significantly impacted by the ref. In fact I think the ref completely altered the course of the game. We were absolutely dominating the game, had a goal taken away, before Panama started doing what they always do, pushing grabbing kicking, taking out our GK and not even getting warned over it. Weah should have known better than to retaliate, but to pretend that we weren’t being goaded and Panama wasn’t even being mildly cautioned is complete bs. And Weah barely pushed that guy, his arm came too high, and shocker the player drops to ground like he was sniped and rolled in fake agony like always. Meanwhile it takes another 60 min and their players blatantly kicking the sh** out of Pulisic and McKennie before Panama gets carded. Well the game was over at that point because we had been playing with a man down! I call BS. And btw I have never bought into the golden gen stuff, our team is not yet as good as the top four SA teams but we are close. And if we can get a fair shake, I believe we can compete with them.
JB, come on barely pushed that guy. His arm just came too high. Tim will be lucky to play the quarter if we somehow pull this thing out.
Papi, my beef is focused solely on the quality of officiating in CONCAFAF, which we all understand from WCQs. I had high hopes for this game, given Panama’s reputation, that Copa leadership would assign a well-regarded official from South America, or even perhaps Canada or Mexico, to prevent the same from getting out of hand. As soon as I saw it was El Salvador’s Barton, I rolled my eyes. Not even a caution of any type, even verbal, for running at Turner. You knew it was going to escalate. Weah was goaded, but was that foul more harsh than others that occurred during the game? The red card was inevitable, but it came after some 17 fouls were already called on Panama. Furthermore, it occurred during stoppage time, and on a foul so blatant and reckless that Barton had no choice. When McKennie was hacked down a minute later after the foul on Pulisic, that should’ve been a signal to Barton he had lost control.
And don’t get me started on 4 minutes of added time. The crew just wanted to get out off the field at that point.
Absolutly!
Yeah Weah punched the dude. Red card all day.
Our central defense was badly exposed. They have looked shaky for awhile and really fell apart tonight. Two stinkers in a row for Richards, it’s time to try someone else. I actually thought Berhalter made the right formational switch after the red, and everyone else seemed to be defending quite well, but the whole point was to get an extra defender centrally, and then we have three of them watching while Panama collects and shoots from the 12, really? And why Johnny? Guy cannot defend at this level, we have seen that over and over. That sub should have been Musah. It’s a really devastating loss and might be the end of Berhalter if Uruguay beats us. And the ref was atrocious, how does Weah get the straight red after VAR but the guy who takes out Turner doesn’t even get a card? Huh? I think Turner would’ve made the save on Panama’s second. I have only been tossed from one game in 15 yrs as a coach but I think if I was on our bench I may have been tonight.
JB,
There is no comparison, nor similarity, between Weah’s foul and the Pnamanian players collision with Turner.
Weah’s idiocity is the epitome of VC…Violent Conduct.
The Panamanian players collision with Turner is at worst a yellow, and that would’ve been excessive.
And please people, stop with the nonsense that Turner makes the save on Panama’s game winning goal. Not true.
jb,
Timo slugged the guy, or tried to, and that’s a red anywhere and everywhere. It was stupid.
The guy who clattered Matt should have been carded but Matt doesn’t seem to know how to defend himself in those situations. Try that vs. most top line keepers and you’ll find an upraised knee in your face or head.
I’m surprised Gregg let Matt stay in the game. If you think a keeper might be hurt or “shook up’, it’s a good idea to sub him before he has to face a shot.
And I just think a normal Matt might have gotten down to their first goal.
As for Horvath not saving the second goal, that ball was on him instantaneously. If it had been a millimeter or two to Ethan’s right it might have deflected off of him and out of danger but honestly, he was lucky to get anything on that ball; it was that instant.
The gamesmanship from Panama was pretty normal small time Copa shittiness. No big deal.
I’ve seen the Chileans stick a finger up someone’s rectum to get a reaction. What was a big deal was how poorly our Golden Generation reacted to such normal shit.
Gregg and the boys lost this not the refs.
Or rather I should say Panama won this because they were smarter, better disciplined and better coached.
– This team isn’t maturing. How many competitive games has Tim played? Qualifying, World Cup, 3 NLs. Just shoulder bump him back and move on. Yet another bad start from this group. They aren’t mentally prepared.
– I actually thought the move to go 5 in the back was a decent move, they only had two real chances all 2nd half.
– I understand the Johnny over Yunus decision because he’s a better passer and you’re looking to hit CP or Balo on the counter it almost came off a couple times. Since it didn’t you think why didn’t you use Musah to try to hold the ball more.
– Did Balo look tired? Not sure about that sub?
-Richards and Pepi have to finish those headers!
Johnny,
This team is just not that good, and it starts with the HC, who sets the tactics, the lineup, makes the in game tactical adjustments, and the subs.
The media can stop with the “golden generation” nonsense, too. Does it really matter where they play, if they can’t win?
The move to 5 in the back was saying that we were going to hold on for tie and MAYBE catch them on a counter. Bad move. 4-4-1 was working the first half and would have been effective in the second half.
Johnny over Musah is fine, but why not Puli – Johnny – Musah – McKennie / Reyna across the 4 midfield spots?
No, Balo looked fresh and up for the challenge for at least another 10 minutes, if not the whole run. I’m one who advocates for Pepi a lot, but this was a bad move by Berhalter.
The cross to Pepi was slightly behind him, so not his fault. Richards could’ve done better, but he was unlucky. I don’t blame either one of them for not scoring and us not tying.
Time for Berhalter to seek life elsewhere.
i don’t like 5 backs in that situation because it eggs the opponent forward, and leaves confusing who is marking who. we also offensively, as you note, ceased to be able to get out of our own end with any regularity. it’s then can we get to the whistle and having given up a first half goal, are you kidding me.
i do feel like we are suffering from a general lack of competition and accountability across the team, particularly at back and in terms of general discipline. i got lectured and nitpicked for griping about the team defense against colombia. but which defender back there did a good job this evening? not a freaking one.
i disagree that this generation isn’t talented. i still think it’s the best we’ve had. but it’s been badgered in a silly scheme direction rather than taught how to play soccer and do little things right. and we fast forwarded way too fast ahead on who should be playing. we need to reboot the sucker, clean slate, and the 23 guys who do their job well, or at least correctly, get their jerseys back. the ones who screw up get an ice floe. if people paid for the red cards or the bad games it would start getting fixed. why should they change if the same XI will play the next game and the next?
and this clown picks personnel so bad i don’t blame him for being scared to use his bench. malik? mckenzie? seanjohn? horvath? LDLT?
the ones i do like he doesn’t play, wright, moore, lund, miles.
i mean, as we bemoan the backfield, it’s like he’s forgotten miles, lund, and moore exist.
are you insane? trying to troll us?
we went from playing flowing end to end 441 to bunkered 532, barely able to get out of our own end, and eventually gave up the winner. to me part of the value of 441 was keeping them honest and giving us the odd chance of stealing a lead.
is that you, dom kinnear? dom used to love to try and milk a bunker for extended periods of time only to ship a goal around 85′. you need some offense as a release valve.
3 subs at HT was excessive and 2 of them cost him. this game exposed the downside of pitchcounting starters. this game exposed the downside of no real competition for backup keeper jerseys. this game exposed the lack of backfield competition. this game…….etc.
the one thing that was working was basically dribbling out of our own half, not whacking it downfield for balogun. musah is a dribbling tank. i suggested pushing jedi forward since he’s fairly quick and wing-y. it would have been a decent game to have dest to slalom dribble. and once we went 531 the ability to get out of our end dried up. probably because we no longer had true “wings” to just run down the sideline.
Can you play 4-4-1 end to end for 70 minutes? Maybe you can, but if I’m Panama I’m much more confident in an up and down game than having to break down the low block.
Bottom line a couple guys had a chance to clear both Panama goals and didn’t. If those players execute Gregg looks like a genius. If Pepi scores that header shortly after coming on what a great substitute instant offense. If Musah comes on and tries to dribble thru three guys and turns it over(as he’s known to do) and gives up a goal we’re on Gregg the other way. 17 minutes in Weah loses it, that’s on Tim for sure. But Gregg clearly didn’t have them in the right mental state. This just happened in Trinidad, everyone knew what was coming. The message shouldn’t have been “let’s be physical right back” it should have been “we’re better than these guys don’t play at their level. Be professionals, get the result”
JR, that’s a counterfactual. defending this loser via counter-factuals is lame. i am criticizing what he actually did that didn’t work.
if you’re going to try and milk a tie to the end, you need to get far closer than half time before you give up on offense. period.
literally everything he did at half blew up. keeper. back. formation change. to some extent even pulling adams though he had no practical choice (other than maybe auditioning 6s or using musah).
It worked for 38 minutes.
-49th minute shot from outside the box blocked.
-51 minute shot from outside the box that Horvath punched away
23 minutes from Panama without a shot.
-71 minute Balo in transition from tough angle
-74 minute Murillo dribbler
between Wes’s legs
-81 minute Wes to Pepi header at this point our xG is .71 in half Panama .09
-82 minute shot from distance blocked by Ream
-83 minute Fajardo scores on a play with a .23 xG because CCV switched off for half a second.
-Their player made a play our players were in position to score and prevent them from scoring but couldn’t make a play.
-The 5-3-1 had the US in position to win or draw, we didn’t convert. In the first half in the 4-4-1 we had 2 shots worth a value of 0.12 xG the difference was Balo hit shot he had no business making. 5-3-1 had 2 chances
worth 0.71 before the goal.
– First half possession was 72/28 second half 75/25. Given it was 11v11 for 18 minutes in first half and 10v10 for 8 minutes second half it doesn’t appear the 4-4-1 was particularly allowing us to posses the ball much more.
-Fajardo hit a shot he should score 1 out of 4 times, if he’d skied it, the narrative would be Berhalter set them up to get a point. Richards header was of the same value 0.23 he jumped to early and put it over.
-Gregg’s strategy didn’t work, but it was hardly some hare brained scheme of an idiot that was doomed from the start.
JR do i really have to explain to you the soccer fallacy of something “working for 38 minutes?” when it was premature and had to work for 45? the irony is you’re arguing with me about how long you think it worked, then missing that even if i believed you, your math says not 45′ but instead at least 52′.
dom kinnear’s response to red cards used to be the bunkering version. and he had a pretty good houston defense. and almost without fail we would be in sight of the end and give up some 85′ winner exhausted. and the exhaustion would limit our ability to answer. and we’d lose.
no, sorry, my youth experience was to get the result in those kind of games you are better off being honest and playing real soccer for most of the game, and not bunker longer than 10-15′.
also JR while i don’t think they could have 441d running downfield forever, it was working, the 3 HT subs were excessive, he then used the other 2 pretty quick. to me in those kind of grinder games you have to just hold on with what is working as long as possible and respond with subs and tactical changes only when the state of play dictates. he tried to control the uncontrollable and misdiagnosed the game.
this is half my thing with him. he fights the natural way we play. he does these bizarre premature shifts. we don’t upset better teams. we occasionally lose to worse ones. definition of ineffective tactician.
I think the worst sub was taking Reyna off. Wait for it … I think he is a better defender than Johnny and Wes. Let the Reyna haters start now. Go.
i think people have forgotten how horrific the MF transition defense was when it was weston, bradley, trapp, those kind of people. mckennie occasionally makes the odd aggressive defending play, but is overrated as a 90 minute defender.
and if i wanted to get punchy, part of the problem is IMO most of the mids in our scheme are out there more to defend than to create. in which case pitch shutouts or get lost. adams does the thing. i think musah can too.
but to me the whole thing is messed. who defends from a 433. and i know the nitpickers will say we sometimes shift 442 or whatever — but that’s only true when we have the time to slide and do so. you give up a fastbreak turnover — and we routinely do — you’re defending in the default 433.
I’m not a Reyna hater, and in this case… 🙂 …you are not wrong.
Of late, Gio has shown that he is willing to put in the work defensively, while Wes has not been impactful in the pre-tournament games, or the tournament games.
That said, I was fine with either McKennie or Gio being on the right side of a 4 man midfield, post red card.
If yiu take Reyna off yiu add Musah. Plain and simple. The decision should have been Musah fir Reyna.
Tele: I think Johnny for Adams was always planned at the half. They couldn’t get past that was the plan.
wow, i am amazed you figured out it “hasn’t matured,” in, what, year 6? as i have said in other comments, the man is getting close to burning half of some of these kids’ careers. unusually talented ones, to boot. coaching usually works a tad faster than, oh, 6 years. and let’s be blunt, does a coaching idea usually take 6 years to work? you can usually tell on a timeframe of weeks or months.
i am just going to remind people that the sales pitch was we would get out of the plateau and ascend to greatness. and now we have to decide precisely when his standard mediocrity is sufficient for firing.
in terms of the original sales pitch, should already be enough. this is obviously not the tool to world beater status. it is barely the tool to being better than couva.
and before people get going with that being overwrought, before couva this was sitting in 3rd in the region. fell to 5th on the loss, but 1 point behind 3rd.
he managed to elevate it to……..3rd in the region, advancing on a tiebreaker. wow, that’s some real progress. with one of the most talented groups ever we are still wondering can we beat panama today. setting aside we’re not beating the good teams at all, the fact we’re still sweating the small stuff says plenty.
Well at least now we will get to see what this team is made out of. Pretty simple. Just beat Uruguay and you’re through. We still control our own destiny so let’s if these guys can rise up to the challenge.
Only if Los Canaleros don’t hammer Bolivia and take 2nd place via goal differential.
Mr. Dikranovich,
Ring…ring…please pick up the white courtesy phone. Do those FIFA rankings still look good to you?
Tele,
How are you feeling about Berhalter now? That is some GREAT in game management by Berhalter after the red card, huh?
Berhalter…tick…tick…tick…
The same as I always felt about him.
Tele,
Sure thing…if you say so.
Papi Grande,
The powers that be know Gregg thoroughly at this point.
But the decision has been made long ago that they would stick with him until at least the 2026 WC and probably beyond.
Bombing out of Copa America isn’t going to change that.
Odds are, they will do much better than expected vs Uruguay and there will be all this talk about lessons learned and great togetherness of this brotherhood and all that other horseshit. Because right now there is probably no affordable, available, proven alternative to Gregg.
So they will bite the bullet, and lineup behind Gregg like they have for 6 years.
It will be interesting to see the numbers on Copa America should we in fact go out at this stage.
If the ratings drop dramatically then a case can be made that an extended run by the USMNT in the World Cup matters.
If they don’t then why spend mega bucks on bringing in some hot shot? Is the draw the USMNT or is it the Word Cup?
Gregg is affordable and a company guy. He’s not an uppity furriner pissing off the MLS cabal. The have him by the short hairs. Fans on SBI have shown a willingness to suck up the piss these these people put out as justification for keeping Gregg around.
It should be obvious to all of you that the USSF doesn’t care about fielding the most competitive team they can. Either that or they truly don’t know how to go about it.
Anyway my prediction is Uruguay goes down a man in the 15th minute and still beats the USMNT 2-1.
For the Gregg haters ( I am neither a fan nor a hater), his team has shown a very noticeable le lack of discipline. Two red cards against Mexico in a tournament, a first half red away from the play against Trinidad, and. First half red today again away from the ball. I think a lot of the criticism he gets is unjustified, but to me, the coach is accountable for that when it happens regularly.
Tele,
For not being a fan of Berhalter, you sure go to bat for him A LOT…such that you write posts / books on this site defending him.
As a coach of a National Team, when you don’t create competition within the team for the starting 11 spots ( read: you don’t rotate starters ) the inmates run the asylum and they do whatever they want ( read: red cards ), without consequences.
Time for a new leader to steward this ship…simple as that.
I only defend him against criticism that I think is unwarranted. I have always said there is a lot to criticize him about, just not too many people on this site choose to criticize him about the things I think are warrated. He’s the same coach today as he was yesterday. Nothing that happened today was at all surprising to me.
His in game decision making isn’t up to par at all. His subs aren’t right, his strategy isn’t right, and He doesn’t harness his players abilities right. Despite all.of this he has one more game to.prove his doubters wrong.
i thought lalas pulled his punches a little in acting like his subs were ok. the man repeatedly screwed himself today. red’s not his specific fault but is his team’s general pattern of late which he hasn’t brought under control. we were getting the ball downfield fine 441, halftime he switches to 532. we end up bunkered on our end most of the half. subs 3 guys at halftime, and not just turner. the 5th back he gratuitously sends on doesn’t mark on the goal, the keeper he sends on has the goal go through his hands. johnny does meh. sargent’s one play is he fouls the guy with time running out. and he’s played all his sub cards when panama goes 10.
he had a similar pattern with that TnT game last year. had a lead there too. couldn’t get formation right after the red, game flips on its head.
i thought the key mistake was parking the bus second half and switching to 5 backs. at that point they parked our end for a long time until they scored. my experience it’s only wise to bunker for like 10-15 minutes. the game was still even and we were doing fine 441. why do we have to get cute.
dude, at a certain amount of “one more game and we just might…….”
go ahead and pull the plug.
it’s like the 9 lives klinsi got. gold cup, copa america, guatemala, mexico x2, CR. it’s a constant pattern of the next win will excuse the last loss. at a point if you stand back you see that we just don’t win as often as we should, against opponents we should beat, or upset anyone that takes some work.
i mean, if this was soccer, he’d have picked up a yellow and red for persistent infringement. at a point — the yellow — we quit warning you before we do something about it.
basta. [spanish]
Based on current precedent nobody would have batted an eye at 8+ minutes of ET. Did the referee have to pee?
Based on what we saw in the Brazil friendly and Bolivia game, Turner would have saved the winning goal.
But them’s the breaks.
yeah i am curious what the folks who routinely rip on me for questioning the lack of playing time and competition for backup keeper thought of that one.
wasn’t his only goof, he came out as sweeper keeper on the one ball and turned over his love tap pass 35 yards exposed instead of launching it other side of the moon.
Will,
Based on what we saw this past EPL season and in the most recent USMNT’s game vs T&T, Turner would NOT have saved Panama’s game winning goal.
That goal is not Horvath’s fault. Bad D.
to be fair, i was kind of like how do you get the ball and make that turn and shot against 5 backs with no one on you, right in front of the net.
to me, CCV aside, it’s like we are scared of tackling someone or getting a handball in the box. watch the darned italians. they have offensive problems but are not scared of a slide tackle. i’m watching a bunch of leg pokes like U14s. get stuck in. it’s like we can’t modulate between sheer violence and passivity, and just do the soccer thing.
i am amazed we have to teach this to a team coached by a CB but then GB was the backup CB.
“Based on what we saw in the Brazil friendly and Bolivia game, Turner would have saved the winning goal.”
Based on what we saw in THIS Panama game that’s unlikely.
Turner could have saved the first goal and he did not.
And that would have been an easier save than the winning goal which Ethan had zero time to react to.
I was waiting for Gregg to pull Turner after what was clearly a very hard fall. I think it may have affected him on the first goal but we’ll never know.
Inexcusable from Weah, but after that Berhalter’s game management was very bad.
How can Musah not be in this game?
How do you take off the best player on the pitch Balogun?
Why do you add another central defender at halftime and also add another defensive midfielder? Are you already giving up at halftime vs the mighty Panama?
Just an all around pathetic effort from players and coach. Only Balogun played up to the occasion and he gets subbed…
Agreed Berhalter continues to show his inability to make the right decisions.
But there is another game.
And yes why remove Balogun who was doing everything right.
Well,
I thought Weah should have been rested in this game.
Also the subs weren’t right. Why no Musah who has the ability to collect a ball and break through the lines? Anyway they need to beat Uruguay to have a chance and Panama to slip up against Bolivia.
I know this thread is about to go off…
But I’ll start with agreeing with everything Dempsey just said.
No Musah at some point is mind blowing.
CCV in the middle – No.
Balo still had gas in the tank, this was NOT a situation where Pepi gives you anything. (Except not finishing 2 feet from goal…again)
Tough situation with the ever calm Weah losing his composure, but what in the absolute F#&$%@&$ was the coach doing after halftime.
Now I’m gonna agree with Lalas, they don’t get through to the knock out stage the coach should lose his job (but they’ll probably give him an extension)
Yo! I am Master of the Obvious. Step off, Tele!
I will say that 4 minute of injury time was a little gracious to Panama. The guy that kicked Pulisic took about 3 minute to leave the field and they spent about 3 minutes on the PK review. Is that something that was less obvious? Kind of sounds like whining though; sometimes goes for you, sometimes against.
Two VAR reviews in the second half and four different substitution periods only 4 minutes?
Yeah somebody missed math class
JR yes the added time was whack
Same guy that gave Mexico 12 minutes of added time against Honduras so they could make the NL semis.
This was GB’s fault. If Weah was playing RB like he should have been that red card wouldn’t have happened.
The team that finishes better usually wins.
True
What about own goals?
I said usually … not always. That was a poke at IV who acted like winning was a foregone conclusion because they won 5-1 last time when I posted that it was going to be a tough game.
I know
tele: you are confused between “should be” and “was.” if you beat a team last time 5-1 and this time get rung up — the third time this regime has lost to panama — you’re getting outcoached.
if you’ll honestly remember what i said, it was send out the B team because uruguay is what matters. that remains the case but we will face them from a place of exhaustion instead.
IV, I said it was going to be a tough game. There was nothing that has happened in the past 55 years of US soccer while I have been alive that suggested anything different. The game was tough. Predicting a tough game and having the prediction come true is not confusion.
IV,
“tele: you are confused between “should be” and “was.” if you beat a team last time 5-1 and this time get rung up — the third time this regime has lost to panama — you’re getting outcoached.”
Since Christiansen has gotten there Panama have outcoached us or at least held their own in every game.
Just because you outcoach the other guy it doesn’t mean you win.