The U.S. men’s national team are 20 days away from opening play at the 2024 Copa America competition, but first Gregg Berhalter’s squad will have a pair of friendlies on home soil.
Colombia will oppose the Americans on Saturday at Commanders Field in Landover, Maryland in the first of two important preparatory matches for the USMNT. Berhalter will not only aim to determine his best lineup for the upcoming Copa America, but also continue the growing chemistry between the players in his squad.
Christian Pulisic, Weston McKennie, and Gio Reyna headline the star talent at Berhalter’s disposal, while many others are fighting to be part of the final roster. Sergino Dest’s absence will provide both Joe Scally and Shaq Moore with opportunities to lock down the right back job ahead of the competition.
The No. 9 position remains up for grabs with Folarin Balogun, Ricardo Pepi, Haji Wright, and Josh Sargent all jostling for minutes this month.
Here is the starting lineup we could see the USMNT deploy against Colombia on Saturday, as well as the lineup we would deploy if we were making the final lineup decisions:
GOALKEEPER
Who will start: Matt Turner
Who should start: Matt Turner
Matt Turner’s club opportunities were few and far between this year, but his position with the USMNT remains consistent.
Turner will certainly remain Berhalter’s No. 1 option between the posts for the Copa America and beyond. Despite pressure from Ethan Horvath, who played frequently for Cardiff City, I can’t see Turner dropped from the squad.
DEFENDERS
Who will start: Joe Scally, Chris Richards, Miles Robinson, Antonee Robinson
Who should start: Joe Scally, Chris Richards, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Antonee Robinson
With two friendlies in quick succession, Berhalter will aim to give every player an opportunity to impress.
Sergino Dest’s injury now forces Joe Scally into the leading role to start at right back. Scally featured heavily for Borussia Moenchengladbach during the recent Bundesliga campaign and should get the nod of Shaq Moore for this match.
Moore will likely earn time, but expect Scally to get the nod in the starting lineup.
Chris Richards and Cameron Carter-Vickers are both coming off strong endings to their respective club campaigns and would be a strong 1-2 duo at centerback. Both Richards and Carter-Vickers are solid defensively, while bringing good attributes off corner kicks and set plays.
Mark McKenzie also played a large role at club level and will also look to feature in the pair of matches. Despite being the odd-man out at times, McKenzie is a good defender and has improved with his passing abilities out of the back.
Miles Robinson is in the thick of his club schedule with FC Cincinnati and will be fighting to feature too. Tim Ream rarely featured for Fulham during the second half of the season, but did start in the Cottagers season-finale win.
Antonee Robinson delivered a career-best year for Fulham and remains the No. 1 left back in the USMNT squad. Kristoffer Lund will also seek opportunities, but for now, it remains Robinson’s job to lose.
MIDFIELDERS
Who will start: Weston McKennie, Gio Reyna, Tyler Adams
Who should start: Weston McKennie, Yunus Musah, Malik Tillman
The USMNT’s midfield corps certainly has a lot of talent heading into June’s friendlies.
Tyler Adams’ fitness remains a big question mark heading into the Colombia match, especially with the captain making only five appearances this year to date. Adams is in good spirits heading into the match and ultimately will want to play as much as possible to get into a groove before the Copa America.
Johnny Cardoso is also an option in midfield, but a start against Brazil would also be a confidence boost.
Gio Reyna and Malik Tillman are both options at the No. 10 for the USMNT. Tillman enjoyed a stellar loan spell at PSV this past season, which ultimately led to the Eredivisie side triggering his purchase option from Bayern Munich.
Although Tillman’s club impact hasn’t always transferred over to the USMNT, he remains an in-form attacker for Berhalter to consider.
Reyna’s loan spell at Nottingham Forest did not go as planned, but he did enjoy an impactful USMNT window last March. He will fight with Tillman for minutes at the No. 10, so whoever doesn’t start in the Colombia match, could be seen off the bench.
Timmy Tillman and Luca De La Torre are also options for Berhalter to consider, but I expect you’ll see them off the bench if anything.
FORWARDS
Who will start: Haji Wright, Folarin Balogun, Christian Pulisic
Who should start: Haji Wright, Josh Sargent, Christian Pulisic
These upcoming two friendlies could be what truly shakes the No. 9 race for the USMNT.
Folarin Balogun will have plenty to prove this month, especially after a tough first season with AS Monaco. Despite finishing the season with eight goals and seven assists, Balogun went through rough patches and will be eager to get back on track this summer.
Skill wise, I think he still is the USMNT’s long-term No. 1 striking option, but Josh Sargent and others will have something to say.
Sargent deserves an opportunity in the starting lineup after a positive season with Norwich City. It marked the second-straight campaign in which Sargent registered double-digit goals as the Canaries reached the promotion playoffs.
A USMNT return was deserved and now Sargent will have to make the most of it.
Haji Wright was the top scorer of all American players in Europe this season and is back after a memorable first year with Coventry City. Wright’s impact was also seen during the USMNT’s March window, where he scored twice in the CONCACAF Nations League semifinal triumph over Jamaica.
His versatility could see him used out wide, a role we saw Wright in a lot at Coventry.
Ricardo Pepi is also fighting for opportunities and will likely be used off the bench. Pepi was a super sub for PSV and the USMNT over the past year and could offer more again this month.
Christian Pulisic remains the likely starter at left wing, especially after a strong first season in Italy. Pulisic was stellar for AC Milan, registering over 20 goal contributions for the Rossoneri.
He remains a vital leader to the USMNT attack.
Tim Weah is also an option again at right wing, but Wright could get the nod after a more impactful club campaign in England. Weah’s versatility might also see him used as a right wing back while Brenden Aaronson is also a candidate off the bench as a winger, or in midfield.
It certainly is a deep attacking unit for the USMNT this month.
What do you think of our projected lineups? Which would you start? Who are you most excited to see play? Are there any doubts you have?
Share your thoughts below.
I’ll be bummed if we don’t see a bit of tinkering. If at full strength the only questions are at CB (to play Ream or not), who to play between Reyna and Musah (not really a question consider Reyna’s NT form). That team knows each other and “the system” well. Since it’s possible to see Colombia and Brazil later…tinker with things a bit. Try a back three or try Weah at RB. I advocated for this during Dest’s suspension and still think he should play there. To me this is a no brainer. And yeah, move CP to the right and try Haji on the left.
agree with the tinker suggestion like you and others on here and think we’ll see it; the loss of Dest really opens up the door to tinker, we’ll see if GB goes for it or not
i don’t think we should start the starters for a prep game, but if we are, from this pool it should be
turner
moore/musah richards miles lund
adams/musah
weah reyna pulisic jedi
wright
then if rest of pool available
get dest healthy, push weah back dest plays RM
if you have dest and jedi up high then you can emphasize attack on the call sheet by double counting them as emergency wingbacks/rotational/subs
bench: celentano frei EPB/trusty/CCV moore musah mckennie ferreira green koleosho/paredes/ledezma balogun vazquez
you can see where on the starters, it’s the “way” GB lines them up, who he uses where. i think we should be a vibrant attack rather than driving around with the parking brake on in the CAM pretending we have much more than adams at 6. you can see on the bench it’s “personnel,” i find his bench toothless unless he literally runs out the wrong people.
to me the Jamaica NL game is telling on what is wrong with the team. we start tillman who hasn’t done a thing yet — “club form.” with that exception, all the regulars, who then don’t do much. we start musah and mckennie to control the MF — and we give up a goal, chase all night, and they have no G or A. wright and reyna off the bench are productive. the best offense of the night is actually throwing on the best attackers even out of position.
mexico, similarly, reyna and adams star. musah and mckennie along for the ride again.
ergo, forget the cubbyholes, get the dangermen on the field, and quit pretending weston+musah is the MF, or at least the AM. musah might be interesting as rotational 6 or maybe RB. weston can be thrown on with vazquez as a package deal for games calling for aerial proficient subs, box crashers.
They were managing Reyna’s minutes. He’d hardly been playing knew they’d need him in the final on a few days rest that’s why Tillman started.
JR: you’re full of it. am i the only one with a memory? he was healthy, unlike adams. y’all were the ones saying bench or drop him because his forest “club form” “must” reflect either issues with professionalism or performance. and the coach, unlike adams, put him in at half and left him on for what turned out to be 75′. he then showed you up in that 75′, at which point we’re going to pretend that like adams he was being pitch counted for the final. no, not when y’all half expected him to trip over his laces from rust and supposed poor form.
also, if you remember, for much of the NL when on the field reyna was seemingly told to go show to the backline and bring the ball up from behind the MF like a point guard, as opposed to play his normal 10 role. so i don’t buy in the slightest this was some plan to get him on the field creating in a 10 role in the final after he was supposedly tested for fitness….in a sub role? if i am not playing much the worst possible test of my fitness is a 30-45 minute sub role. and you and i both know he goes on at the half — as against holland — because his dear childhood uncle/mentor screwed up yet again and had him on the bench while we’re trying real hard to blow the game first half.
you’re revising history to reflect what we know happened. reyna played as he often does. people come up with excuses about professionalism and theories not to expect it. i don’t get why. i was very lonely saying it would. i think it was me and someone else on here.
no, you and i both know the deal at the time was tillman and pepi were thriving and manifesting all important club form for PSV, for the former USMNT GM, which if we ignore how little defense they play in holland, sounds great. who then actually does stuff? adams, whose health was questioned. reyna, whose professionalism was questioned. and wright, who like green before him,, only seems to score big goals.
nah, tillman keeps putting up interesting club numbers and then jacking US chances over the bar to row Z like a nervous wreck. as with a few other slots on the team, including scally who was a nightmare, y’all went with “club form” and were wrong. we keep confusing hot streaks with talent.
often enough the talented ones are the ones who show up — not matter how club is going.
just admit it. confession is good for the soul.
IV: Gio hadn’t gone 90 minutes since the first leg against TnT in November three months earlier. He had only played 80 minutes in Jan and Feb combined for his clubs. He was healthy, but to expect him to go back to back 90 minute shifts wouldn’t have been wise. I’ve never said bench or drop Gio.
“ i was very lonely saying it would. i think it was me and someone else on here.” that someone else was me (and let’s quit being so self righteous there were more). But let’s not pretend Gio wasn’t completely gassed when came off against Mexico after playing 153 minutes over two matches.
We should probably fill that toothless bench with mediocre journeyman from English Championship or maybe aging “former-hyped teenage” strikers turned DM that have been moved further and further from goal throughout their career because they aren’t actually good at scoring goals.
Don’t you find it a little funny that you call this a preparation game, yet suggest not starting the players who need to prepare the most. The starters! 😂
Two formations will dictate who starts.
4-3-3
Puli—-Balo—M. Tillman
———Reyna——
—-Adams—-Wes—–
Jedi—Ream—Rich—Weah
————-Matt——
3-5-2
—-Puli—balo—-
——Reyna—–‘
Jedi————-Weah—–
——Wes—-Jonny—–
Ream—-Rich—-CCV
—–Matt—–
Balogun will get his chance to start, but if he doesn’t look like the man then either Wright or Sargent will take his spot. To be honest I would rather Wright be paired with Pulisic in a 3-5-2 due to those two having a connection that goes back to the US U-15 days.
on your first one, what has m. tillman done to earn his high praise? that’s like the epitome of club form stuff. no no no. weah up top, and we’ll figure out RB.
on your second, jedi out there on the left wing alone in a 352 with the glacial ream as his left side cover? we would get countered like mad. or do people forget why ream is no longer a LB at NT level? for 352 you need 3 excellent and mobile backs, who can get sideline to sideline, defend on an island and mop up risktaking when the wing is caught high. you then need wings with more genuine two-way abilities — the ability to defend well by themselves with no help at all — and raw speed. weah has that; jedi doesn’t. jedi is a 4 back winger who loves to cheat up and when he takes risks often gets caught out. in a 352 that’s setting a torch to the defense.
also, musah for weston, and more of a big/little forward mix. you need MF ballwinners who can break up a play and feed the wing or hit an accurate ball to forward feet. weston to me is a sloppy passer and an inconsistent 6.
and to me when you play 2 strikers you want a target guy and a speed guy. speed to keep up with the wings. big guy for crosses and also to hold the ball up. (i wanted vazquez for a reason.) failing that, wright is probably closest thing we have to a back to goal player in this roster. pepi and balo are guys to play behind defenses. sargent is not a back to goal guy, he disappears. which, last thing i need in a big game is the forward is draped, not showing, unable to separate.
people knocked maloney but i actually think he’d fit a 352 six role fine. win balls harshly then blandly pass it wide. let the winger get crazy. i assume maloney is out because we want more downfield passing from the 6, except what worked at nations league was less passing sideways and more reyna throughballing and adams just taking bombs. how often does a 6 actually get an assist on this team? i think GB wants two way guys and passing 6s; i think this is more effective with a true 10 (reyna) and destructive 6s.
Nope. Tillman at RW Weah at RB. Tillman doesn’t play the position as a winger he drifts inside and creates. Weah can overlap. What has Tillman done….. not given enough chances to show what he can do. Weah can still whip on his crosses as the RB.
Tillman was the best player on the field against Trinidad after he subbed on when they lost in Trinidad down a man. That is something, but I agree that his other performances to date have not been steller.
Let’s get crazy
——-Puli—Balo——
————- Reyna——-
Jedi-Wes—Musah-Weah
—McK—Richards-MRob
———-Turner——-
3-4-1-2
It’s where I’d strongly consider going, especially with Dest out. The US would seriously bring some pain on counters with that lineup.
The thing that makes me leery is that our CB pool isn’t the deepest. Ream and Richardson are EPL caliber but Ream is getting really long in the tooth, and it’s a fair-sized dropoff from those two to the next group of CB’s, where there’s probably a half-dozen or more guys in a bunch without much to separate them. A three-man backline does compensate for those ills…but it also takes an offensive player off the field.
It still is probably the way to go against the likes of Brazil and Uruguay, and possibly also Colombia. We aren’t going to line up and punch with them and it’d be dumb to try…but I still opine that our speed on the counter can trouble anyone.
We have Austin Trusty in the wings coming up, and we also have Chris Richards starting for an EPL team, Carter-Vickers. I think we have enough to have 5 solid Center Backs. Jalen Neal took a step back with his two injuries but he’s also in path where they could work him into the senior team slowly and have another option.
Crazy is right. Why completely change your formation to one that you haven’t used before right before a major tournament?
To get your best players on the field in generally their best positions. Dest is one of the top 10 field players on the roster; in many opportunities Scalley and Moore have shown that they aren’t
It’s not like we ‘ve never been in a 3 man backline under Greg before, we’ve used it several times, and couple that with the fact that many of our CBs play in a 3 man back system I don’t think it’s crazy at all to use for these friendlies to see what it looks like!
Gary,
Because the 4-3-3 hasn’t been producing against non-Concacaf opponents. Try it out, then there are 11 days until Bolivia, you can always go back to the old formation in that week and a half or tighten up the 3-4-3. This basic group has been using a 4-3-3 for 2 years so easy to switch back to. Also I don’t think there’s a chance Gregg does this.
If Greg was a sensible coach…he could always alter it in the 1st half if we are getting hammered, Weah could slot back to a traditional Right back in a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1…however you want to look at it… Chris Richards can slot into the Holding mid with Musah or whomever else is there, and then Mckennie, Reyna, Pulisic and the forward can adjust as well.
I like it because it gets our best players on the field together, and gives us the talent to compete with Brazil and Colombia. I think we would be vulnerable defensively and would give up goals, but we would be able to go after them and put their defenses under pressure, and hopefully score some as well. And if we go up and want to shift to a more defensive setup later on, you bring in Adams, shift some guys around. Chances of Berhalter trying this: slim to none
like i said to the other guy, jedi likes to freelance and cheat up and is not a good 352 wing out there alone. people need to run the worst case and not just the best case, which is why we keep beating bad teams and losing to good ones.
jedi to me needs defensive cover which to me is some sort of 2-layer wide scheme, 442, 433. heck, i personally think both he and dest are really wing attackers typecast as wing backs in GB’s scheme. my count dest has played 20-something club games as a wide mid or wide forward. it accentuates their positive attributes and someone else is the defensive cover. or does no one care how jamaica or holland or everyone else seemingly scores on this team down the wings/backdoor? ie the worst case.
If you notice that’s why I had all mobile CBs. If Jedi gets caught high up the field you have cover. High energy CMs like Wes and Musah are also able to get back to cover. I watch Columbus run their 3-4-3 every week, they’ve given up the fewest goals in the league so far this season. They do it through out possessing their opponents, immediately applying pressure if they turn it over, and being committed to getting back if the first line is broken. Neither Yeboah or Farsi are great 1v1 defenders but it works. When The Crew have been beaten this year it’s been against a large CF who can out muscle the undersized Camacho, a problem Richards wouldn’t have. That and when half the team is suffering from food poisoning. Besides aren’t you always saying if we’re going to be offensive we should commit and be offensive?
JR: rotating to help out sounds nice in theory and miles in particular has a knack for knowing when to slide sideways and cut off a jailbreak behind a foolish wing. but i remember us shipping goals to the swiss when the wingback would get caught up, we’d slide, and they’d then just work it to the weak side. you run out of bodies to slide depending on the numbers.
put different, sometimes folks are occupied, perhaps the nearest guy has a runner. he steps up i play it behind him, easy goal.
but really, it comes down, to me, to 352 ideally is kind of conservative, almost erring 5 backs, with calculated counterattack risks. it’s not a cavalier slot, not unless you want to get scored on easy a lot. they get behind you and no one slides, it’s endless green space and the CBs might never get over in time. i played that wide spot some and you have to constantly worry where your opposite nunber is. be fast to get behind teams. be fit to run end to end. be a good island defender. weah is that. i don’t see it in jedi. jedi is really a wing attacker, a chalk crosser in the english style (though capable of cutting in and shooting, we now see), or a wing back in some sort of barca/dutch “who cares about defense” swashbuckling mode. that is not who i want wide in a 352 all by their lonesome.
maybe part of it is i don’t see 352 as an aggressive attacking formation, or at least a wise one. i see it as more like how atleti plays it, which is defensive and bite people on the counter when they get caught too high.
IV: it really doesn’t matter Gregg won’t do it anyway. His big “adjustment” after Qatar was to shift Gio to midfield and then drop him to the 6 in possession. Basically just replacing 2019 Michael Bradley with Gio. I mean I guess that’s an upgrade at that position.
Against Switzerland we played a 4-3-3, Dest kept getting caught high so Brooks had to slide over. They just started playing balls into space because they knew Embolo could beat Brooks to it. Also didn’t help Yueill is in for injured Adams. Again why I put on 3 mobile CBs.
——————————-
By the way Jedi Robinson was recorded as the 9th fastest defender in the EPL at 21.96 mph, that compares roughly to football players running a 4.4 40 yd dash.
—————–BALOGUN————-PULISIC————-
–
AARONSON——MUSAH——-MCKENNIE—–WEAH
–
ROBINSON———REAM———CCV——RICHARDS
–
—————————-TURNER——————————
–
BALOGUN – CF
PULISIC – RW/LW/AM
AARONSON – LM/AM/CM
MUSAH – CM/AM/RM
MCKENNIE -CM/RM/DM
WEAH – RM/RW/LW
ROBINSON – LB/LM
REAM – CB/LB
CCV – CB
RICHARDS – CB/RB
TURNER – GK
forget the 4-3-3 and Lets GGGGOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
So a 4-5-1 or are you saying total football and everyone goes everywhere your graphic got all messy.
——————-
This is a serious question I can’t decipher what you’re saying.
Are you reading my comment from a cell phone or are you just seriously confused? If so, where did the wheels fall off?
Yes, yes, I am but then also have everyone 2 or 3 spots. 4-4-2?
I’m not opposed to a 4-4-2 or most of your starting XI selections. However, since this is a friendly I’d strongly consider starting someone other than Ream @ CB as we Have to find a long term solution, and friendlies are where you experiment.
Well, I greatly prefer to proposed Who Should Start of SBI over the Who Will Start lineup projected to be Berhalter’s choices.
Are you joking or just a big Malik and CCV fan?
CCV over Miles Robinson. What’s wrong with that? As far as the midfield, I was perhaps a bit hasty, but I wouldn’t start Adams since I’m not sure about his fitness and would be careful even if he is fit because of his injury history. I would be okay with Reyna over Tillman, but Reyna has played very little at N. Forest while Tillman has had an outstanding season.
Gary just wasn’t sure you sounded so appalled by the “will start” but it was 9 of 11 the same.
Def not Tyler fragile glass Adams he not reliable against top teams;he scored on Mex last game so people think he reliable it’s Mex though they thrash. Who have no top talent like Colombia Brazil Urguay and Argentina.
He was literally our best player at the WC, and specifically against England, and furthermore I believe he made the WC best 11 or close to it, so this idea that he’s not reliable against good teams is just a false statement my brother
I think Striker just means injury prone.
to me to prepare for as many as 6 games in about 20 days in copa america — 8 games in a month including friendlies — you don’t need a bunch of extra prep game minutes on the starter’s legs. he should also know who he likes from NL in terms of talent eval. so you run out the A guys getting fewer minutes who might need fitness and sharpness work — reyna adams ream weah aaronson etc. — plus a decidedly B team group of strivers. you then evaluate the B team for whether they are up to the coming task and make sure the more debatable A guys are fit for the tournament.
so something like
seanjohn
scally ream mckenzie moore
adams/johnny
tillman reyna/tillman
weah sargent aaronson
i want to know before i am wasting copa america games, which of the fitness shy or B team types are trutstworthy. i don’t care if we win, though that would be nice, i want to see who excels or at least holds up under fire. and before i blow games/subs i want to make sure the less fit players don’t go right back down, so they can be roster-swapped for the tournament.
you then sub some of the starters on for about 30′ late. klinsi style, sub towards the actual lineup.
people can now commence to defend whatever the coach does, and to tear me down but if you have watched pre-world cup friendlies before, this is what is normally done. usually the roster is longer and the bench types are literally playing for roster slots in the pre-tournament friendlies. but it’s also to stress test the rehabbed and to evaluate players to decide on the field instead of paper who is effective, as injury contingencies or subs. the starters are not sitting around for weeks, they are doing heavy duty fitness work and 2 a days in the background. but you save most of their legs for money is on the table. they don’t need to play again as proof of concept. we already watched nations league.
u are so damn smart, why haven’t you been considered for a coaching position in place of beerhater.
u are so damn smart, why haven’t you been considered for a coaching position in place of beerhalter.
Because of injuries, we haven’t had a consistent playing lineup for some time. So, you should start your first team in this game, especially since Colombia is a tough opponent. The next friendly I think you should start mostly the B team and give a short run out to first team players.
see, based on middling results the past year, what is this obvious lineup you suggest, and how is it not a tad arrogant to think a unit who can barely squeak jamaica is the best possible for this much harder contest?
but to be real, i am not even initially fighting you. i am saying let’s start by assuming your theory. but let’s play the Bs more of the prep games to test them and test whether i missed something. the US has gotten fairly arrogant and every fan shouting me down is like the coach watches everything and would know better. is this reflected in results? so start off with the Bs and rehabbed As and work your way up. then start the As for bolivia but mix in Bs who start showing up well every game. and start dropping As who don’t play well.
you can argue GB did this a little at, say, GC 19, where the ineffective zardes over time gave way to jozy. or reyna at NL. my first point is maybe get that right in the first place, which is a basic critique of his talent nose.
but my second point is give the bench some room to play into roles — reyna missing at the world cup. this is where i challenge the sort of repeated arrogance where “but we need to get the starters out there” or “this is our best chance to win.” but who should those starters be, and since when were we winning every game to assume this is the formula.
i am sorry but every level i played at the usual emphasis of tryout camp minutes or the preseason games, is not on the starters, who usually play a nominal amount then go in bubble wrap. the usual emphasis is at the margins. this is the last chance of the edge guys to make the roster. this is the chance of the sargents of the world to make a case for playing time relative to the usual suspects. if i skip straight to starting the As, i am assuming my conclusions and will minimally test bench players or the roster margins in case they have to see time.
and that, to me, is how you get wondo missing the sitter when forced into belgium action, or a keeper who when he plays gives up near post goals on free kicks. you put no effort into stress testing the bench.
i dunno, i keep hearing arguments like yours and then end of the season the less usual players have like 2 caps and we barely know what they can do. it solidifies the usual players in place, whether they get results or not.
so, to me, you start out with the Bs. you shift gears to the As for the easy bolivia game. you hit your stride with the performers for knockouts. ideally this coach would figure out his zardes beforehand but at worst he drops them along the way. i just want to speed that process along.
related point but i feel like a fair amount of lost insitutional memory and/or misguided coaching cuteness has followed the 8 year gap from 2014-2022. particularly before 2010 starters used to be used less. for a big tournament we would call a lot more players than the roster could bare, and have a cut, rewarding fitness and form at the camp, as opposed to assuming our conclusion. and we in fact would usually start with more of a B team situation for the first pre-tournament friendly, before shifting towards A for game 2. that enables us to limit wear and tear on starters while evaluating cuts. but since we have almost no one to cut, the coach arrogantly assumes just jump to playing starters. whose identity he assumes up front. regardless how it went last time.
things have changed. things are not as good as they used to be. i favor change that achieves better results, overall system, how many make camp, how we handle camp games. y’all can lecture me when his results match his arrogance. until then i feel free to criticize taking a talented group and getting ok results out of it, while constantly being cute about things.
having about 5 extra guys in for injuries and cuts is international soccer 101. not running the starters in the ground before the tournament starts, also soccer 101.
IV: your idea is fine I really don’t care who plays the friendlies. You have to go back before Klinsmann 2014 he called in a larger roster but made all his cuts before any of the friendlies. I couldn’t find the list anywhere but it seems Bradley called around 30 in 2010, but named his roster with two friendlies remaining. It’s hard to go back and find all the details but I’m guessing timing of international windows and when rosters are due play a role. Having instant access to the tactical cameras digitally also allows staff better access to players quality today than even 10 yrs ago. If you can watch every action player has in every match it’s a lot easier to narrow down. The three additional roster spots also helps narrow down.
I didn’t check every team but the 5 or 6 other Copa countries I checked called in between 26-28 for this week.
IV
“every fan shouting me down is like the coach watches everything and would know better. is this reflected in results?”
They shout you down because your narrative is that everyone else is a moron and IV is the only clear eyed genius in the room. The fact that your writing is borderline incomprehensible does your narrative no favors. You also make stuff up. Everything I write, except for the opinion pieces, anyone can look up if they want to. I know because I had to look that shit up.
You are asking if your instincts are better than Gregg’s based on the results. Well, I can’t answer your question. I know what Gregg’s record is. But I don’t know what your record is when managing the USMNT. There is no basis for comparing your managerial competence with Gregg’s.
“so, to me, you start out with the Bs. you shift gears to the As for the easy bolivia game.”
The USMNT is not a Shelby Cobra. If they think Bolivia is easy, they will probably get their asses kicked.
You are putting the cart before the horse.
The trouble is your A’s are pretty shaky and scare no one. When they come out of the locker room vs. Bolivia it’s not as if they will remind anyone of the Imperial Sardaukar and scare little kids. They don’t get a lot of time together and what time they do have is vs. horseshit teams that don’t really test them. And only CP and Wright ended the season on a high and both have had time to cool off. Most everyone else had a questionable season and could use a tune up game or two.
So when you have two seemingly half decent games vs, Colombia and Brazil it is very tempting to use those games to get this very rusty machine going before blood is on the line. At some point in his reign of error, Gregg is going to have to strap it up and give some of his B/A’s, like Johnny or LDLT a real chance at proving their “A” credentials.
Is this the time? I dunno.
He can’t keep being held hostage by Tyler’s fitness. You’ve got an important and very fragile player in Adams who has barely played all season. He could have two glorious games leading the team vs. Colombia and Brazil but then break down in training before the first Copa game. Then what?
Gregg is in the same place that , JK, Bob, and Bruce were before him. And that he’s still a slave to the fitness of a player or two. The more things change…………………………………..
JR: it’s not just an “idea,” it’s how i remember things used to get done. you bring in 30 guys. you take 23. you then don’t have to decide between no injury replacements or guys outside of camp, if something happens. which it routinely does. and you have competition for the roster in the “now,” which to me gets the coach himself focused on “now” as opposed to paper theory, club form, or what he’d hoped before camp started.
we also used to routinely call up more of a mix for summer tournaments. howard or claudio reyna would skip, and their understudies would play more. that gets those guys some rest, and lets us evaluate who else we have. we could do that because we prioritized certain tournaments and qualifying over others. our copa team in the 2000s was a B tryout team. some of our gold cup teams were more tryout teams. it was roughly when klinsi came in the mentality changed. but IMO the results have deteriorated from 2010 onward. klinsi managed to slap together a 2014 qualifier from germans, but his 2015 and 16 tournament teams stunk because he got stuck on a unit. i don’t understand sitting still on personnel unless you’re winning eveything. and i don’t understand making klinsi’s attitudes paradigmatic. no one says 2014 was the best US team ever, 2018 we all know what happened.
how did that second term klinsi attitude of always call the starters, become the norm? no, peak US in the 2000s mcbride or reyna skipped all the time, friedel and keller didn’t know who’d start, etc.
Vac, I would say LDLT has been given many opportunities. Johnny is young and Johnny today is much better than the Johnny 2 years ago or so that was not a standout on a pretty weak performing U23 team in Olympic qualifying so he will get his opportunities. On a different topic, for all your disdain for Gregg, you should actually be glad he is the coach because you recognize that the US is going to have to be lucky to make a dent at the Copa or the 2026 WC and Gregg, if nothing else, is pretty damn lucky. 10-2 in elimination games. He’s got a 4 leaf clover somewhere. Just ask Jamaica. A lucky coach is what they need now, at least for the Copa.
V: i do assess bolivia as easy, though this is who plays colombia instead. my point was don’t worry so much about who wins or loses this prep friendly, use the game to test rehab player fitness, fitness of club bench players, and the utility of the marginal players. eg has aaronson gotten a clue back. can adams play minutes without breaking. is weah fit. i would rather burn a colombia friendly learning these things now, than waste the group round games getting lessons later. and if one of those games goes down to the end, i’d like to know who seems fit sharp ready to sub in, as opposed to guess.
i personally would burn one of these 2 tournaments to trial things. but failing that, make your marginal roster evaluations in the first friendly. i dunno, it’s like people look for endless excuses to start the same people over and over and despite mediocre results tell me that’s our best chance of winning. mix it up a little.
but anyhow, i’m not arguing for anything crazy. historically at least one pre-tournament friendly would be the equivalent of the varsity tryout scrimmage at your HS, in which if you are playing a lot, that means you are on the bubble. the infamous venezuela and jamaica games before the 2019 gold cup, for example. historically the starters would be tired from training hard and the subs would be playing for roles or the roster.
sorry but to me this is about resume-padding and job security, not best preparing the team. you run out your A team for the friendlies, you aim to maximize results for the short term. you aren’t concerned if they are tired for the tournament itself, as, say, the US was vs. holland after 3 games of little rotation. you care more if we lose the friendly than if it makes us more tired when we play colombia or brazil or argentina later on. but then the idea is win the easy stuff, limit reasons to fire you, and make excuses after that.
tele: most of LDLT’s all time NT productivity was in the grenada laughers. if you like his offense we have dozens better pure attackers. and he is not a 6 at all, he gets thrown around like a rag doll. personally i think his supposed virtue is the AMs we pick, when not reyna, are often two way types who look so sloppy that someone who just dribbles forward, keeps possession, then plays the ball sideways first defender he sees, looks useful. the deal is we have better “10” type go to goal guys, reyna, green, ferreira, it’s not so much that he is any good, it’s for a long time we have been calling “8s” who look like a mess and make you wish you had something more skillful. but if you really want more skill, he’s only ok and we have better technical players. even aaronson makes more actual productivity ie goals happen.
for some reason LDLT gets treated like another 8 option. i don’t see the “two-way” in him. same reason he’s not a 6. kid is a touch player. to me his build and style is more like reyna but minus the finesse on the final product. most of his vigo productivity is actually as a wing. ramos U20 used him out there a lot of the time.
to me he’s another bizarre GB fetish, had a grand total of 1 game under sarachan.
IV: “your idea is fine I really don’t care who plays the friendlies” referencing your thoughts on who should play the minutes during the friendlies.
—————————
Overall, I agree things used to be done differently. However, there are a lot of factors that contribute to how “historically it was done”. That Copa in 2007 was a few days after the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup that qualified us for 2009 Confed Cup. The GC roster was the A team. Some of those friendlies in the late 90s early 2000s were outside of international windows, it’s also really hard to go back and check when guys were injured or like last year when Jedi was technically available but Gregg left him off to allow nagging injury to recover. It’s impossible to find out if McBride or Claudio were healthy scratches or not 20 years later. There may also be something to there is a lot larger gap between the B level players and the C level players. Today most of our second team players are playing for top league European teams the C team are MLSers, in the early 2000s you might be trying to compare Swedish league players against 2Bundesliga against MLS. The gaps in the levels of play are much larger.
Tele57,
“Vac, I would say LDLT has been given many opportunities.”
Before Qatar, in a competitive game, Gregg did not play a team that was better or equal and come out with a good result. I usually look to Mexico to provide us with a tough examination and they did beat Gregg in the 2019 Gold Cup Final but that team was not up to Mexico’s usual high standard. The El Tri that Gregg has faced are the worst El Tri since 2013 when they barely scraped into the World Cup thru the playoffs.
Point is , Gregg has not given Luca an opportunity, when it really matters. Luca gets to go to Qatar but he doesn’t play a second.. Note that 22 cap Ferreira got a half vs. the Netherlands and was anonymous. We have since got a bunch of shiny new #9’s and we haven’t seen Ferreira since.
This lack of decent competitive opportunities is not entirely Gregg’s fault but it does seem as if Gregg has yet to make up his mind on what Luca’s USMNT career path will be. If LDLT is fit and healthy and does not make Copa America or does but again plays zero minutes then that probably means Gregg has gotten over LDLT.
” Johnny is young and Johnny today is much better than the Johnny 2 years ago or so that was not a standout on a pretty weak performing U23 team in Olympic qualifying so he will get his opportunities.”
I don’t trust Tyler to stay healthy. And when he is not healthy, Johnny is a better player. So for me Gregg should have left Tyler home to actually heal instead of doing the “I can play through pain thing” again.”
Copa America would have been a good stress test for Johnny. And it still might be as who knows when Tyler is going to break down?
“On a different topic, for all your disdain for Gregg, you should actually be glad he is the coach because you recognize that the US is going to have to be lucky to make a dent at the Copa or the 2026 WC and Gregg, if nothing else, is pretty damn lucky. 10-2 in elimination games. He’s got a 4 leaf clover somewhere. Just ask Jamaica. A lucky coach is what they need now, at least for the Copa.”
10-2 in elimination games? That reminds me of Red Bull Salzburg.
Here is their record in their league since 1993-94:
Austrian Bundesliga
Champions (17): 1993–94*, 1994–95*, 1996–97*, 2006–07, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2011–12, 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17, 2017–18, 2018–19, 2019–20, 2020–21, 2021–22, 2022–23
Runners-up (5): 2005–06, 2007–08, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2023–24
That does not tell me that RBSALZ is a good team as much as it tells me that the Austrian BL is crap.
Gregg faced crap in the 10-2 elimination game run. That is not inspiring. I believe Bruce, Bob, JK and Dave Sarachan would probably have done as well or maybe better. Gregg should have gone 12-0 because he should have had the superior team in all those games. It is not a guarantee of victory but Gregg goes into every single CONCACAF game as the significant favorite.
“Gregg, if nothing else, is pretty damn lucky.”
He takes over when CONCACAF is about as crap as it has been in years.
His bosses have given him a very, very long leash for reasons that are unclear.
He takes over when there is an unprecedented number of good, young Americans emerging.
For whatever reason, Jesse turned out to be unappealing to the USSF.
In that sense yes he is lucky.
But on the field, he is not lucky.
Every game Gregg won, he should have won.
Every game he tied he should have tied or even won.
Gregg does not upset better teams, not when it matters. Lucky managers do that.
Gregg is mostly lucky that he is not managing El Salvador or Belize.
And Luck runs out. And it can do so at the worst times. I’m glad bullshitter Jesse is not the USMNT manager. He’s not a significant enough upgrade. His bullshit will be a different color and texture to Gregg’s but both of them are bullshitters.
It’s very clear that the USSF will not spend the effort or the money to upgrade the manager. Not when they player pool is still in transition.
Now if Gregg clearly and completely fucks up Copa America, maybe they start looking at a place holder.
It’s also possible that by 2025 perhaps a significant number of better players emerges and the team starts to look more and more like it can make real noise. But even then a change is unlikely. And if he has a decent 2026 Gregg could be the manager going into 2030.
The USSF could, if they chose to, find a better manager than Gregg. They won’t, at this time, for a variety of reasons.
That means that my team is stuck with an inferior manager. Even if the current player pool is not all that great, that is no reason to stay with an inferior manager. The reason then they stick with him is because they don’t want to spend the money.
I’m not going to let that ruin my day but I don’t think any fan of the USMNT should be glad about it.
Vac, because you rate CONCACAF so low, you only consider WC games to be of value under his tender. He has only coached 4; that is not much of a sample size. Freindlies are scrimmages where the final score is meaningless; the outcomes only matter because they impact FIFA ranking which impact pot selections for tournaments. Other than that the results mean nothing. They do have value seeing how individual players stack up against certain competion, like LDLT looking like he didn’t belong on the field against Uruguay and Scally against Morrocco. When IV says Gregg has no signature wins and then points to other coaches winning meaningless freindlies against good teams, as you would say, that doesn’t mean shit. LDLT didn’t play in Qatar because most likely Gregg didn’t trust him and that was most likely based on his performances in training and in other games for the US. That may be stretching it though because Gregg had an usual situation of feeling he needed to start 4 guys every game that were only 60 minutes fit but two of them were McKennie and Musah who he could have brought in LDLT for. He may not trust him, but he still may think he is better than any other options so he gets to be on the team with Gregg hoping not to need him. In terms of luck, I would say Gregg was lucky to win 1st Nations League, Gold Cup with a D team, and to beat Jamaica by scoring on the last touch of regulation, and then winning a tournament after pulling out the victory. Klinsmann was not able to do it because he lost to a vastly inferior Jamaica team in an elimination game in the Gold Cup. Arena lost to an inferior Ghana team in what was essentially an elimination game in the WC. Bradley lost to an inferior Ghana team in WC elimination game. Gregg’s 2 losses in elimination games are to Holland, which I think you agree was a superior team, and Mexico in the 1st Gold Cup which I consider to have also been a superior team. Man City was unlucky not to win Champions League and the Cup final against Man U. Sometimes better trams lose to inferior teams because they are just unlucky.
Tele 57,
“In terms of luck, I would say Gregg was lucky to win 1st Nations League, Gold Cup with a D team, and to beat Jamaica by scoring on the last touch of regulation, and then winning a tournament after pulling out the victory. ”
That’s not lucky. Even with a D team his team is better.
“Klinsmann was not able to do it because he lost to a vastly inferior Jamaica team in an elimination game in the Gold Cup.”
JK did not give a rat’s ass about the Gold Cup unless it was closely tied to the Confed Cup. He is famous for these friendly game blowouts of his side. It has nothing to do with luck and more to do with arrogance and not giving a shit.
” Arena lost to an inferior Ghana team in what was essentially an elimination game in the WC. ”
Ghana was not inferior. Claudio injured his knee and on the play gave the ball away and Ghana scored. Arena being unlucky does not make Gregg lucky.
“Bradley lost to an inferior Ghana team in WC elimination game. ”
They were not inferior. It was a 50/50 game that we should have won but were too naive. Landon will tell you that. Timmy had a shit game and gave up a soft goal. In fact Timmy Howard had a shit 2010 World Cup. Michael gave a hospital ball to Rico at the center circle who was immediately mugged by Boateng and while the entire USMNT defense watched in wonderment, he went in for the kind of near post goal that IV seems to think are never given away by decent keepers.
“Gregg’s 2 losses in elimination games are to Holland, which I think you agree was a superior team, and Mexico in the 1st Gold Cup which I consider to have also been a superior team.”
Gregg pissed that Mexico game away. It was a frigging embarrassment. That’s the game where I learned that he was not a good manager and should be fired. That was years ago and he’s better but he’s still below par.
“Man City was unlucky not to win Champions League and the Cup final against Man U. Sometimes better trams lose to inferior teams because they are just unlucky.”
True. But over time better teams should win more than they lose. 12-2 reflects that Gregg has had the better team, not that Gregg is lucky. Replay that Cup final 14 times and its probably 12-2 City over United.During Greg’s tenure, anytime a CONCACAF team beats or ties the USMNT it’s an upset. In a football sense Gregg has not been particularly lucky. Part of that is because, Qatar apart, they never play anyone with blood on the line. And after Copa America, it will be the same thing until 2026.
I respect our CONCACAF partners for what they are, which is not a good as us. They don’t have our resources, our money, our depth, etc., etc. ,etc., Most of this is out of Gregg’s control. So here is his chance to prove his coaching genius. He needs to figure out a way to make the USMNT better despite the lack of practice time and competition. Barring the end of all life as we know it, he’s got until 2026 to figure it out.
IV,
“JR: it’s not just an “idea,” it’s how i remember things used to get done. you bring in 30 guys. you take 23. you then don’t have to decide between no injury replacements or guys outside of camp, if something happens. which it routinely does. and you have competition for the roster in the “now,” which to me gets the coach himself focused on “now” as opposed to paper theory, club form, or what he’d hoped before camp started.
we also used to routinely call up more of a mix for summer tournaments. howard or claudio reyna would skip, and their understudies would play more. that gets those guys some rest, and lets us evaluate who else we have. we could do that because we prioritized certain tournaments and qualifying over others. our copa team in the 2000s was a B tryout team.”
IV,
Your memory is a little faulty.
2007 COPA AMERICA SQUAD (22 PLAYERS) AVG AGE 24.3 YEARS
2 DF Marvell Wynne 8 May 1986 (aged 21) 0 0 Toronto FC
3 DF Jay DeMerit 4 December 1979 (aged 27) 3 0 Watford
4 DF Bobby Boswell 15 March 1983 (aged 24) 2 0
D.C. United
5 MF Benny Feilhaber 19 January 1985 (aged 22) 8 2 Hamburger SV
6 DF Heath Pearce 13 August 1984 (aged 22) 6 0 Nordsjælland
7 DF Danny Califf 17 March 1980 (aged 27) 14 1 Aalborg BK
8 FWHérculez Gómez 6 April 1982 (aged 25) 0 0 Colorado Rapids
9 FW Eddie Johnson 31 March 1984 (aged 23) 26 10
Kansas City Wizards
10 FW Charlie Davies 25 June 1986 (aged 21) 1 0 Hammarby
11 MF Eddie Gaven 25 October 1986 (aged 20) 3 0 Columbus Crew
12 DF Jimmy Conrad 12 February 1977 (aged 30) 20 1 Kansas City Wizards
13 DF Jonathan Bornstein 7 November 1984 (aged 22) 7 1 Chivas USA
14 MF Ben Olsen 3 May 1977 (aged 30) 34 6 D.C. United
15 DF Drew Moor15 January 1984 (aged 23) 0 0 FC Dallas
16 MF Sacha Kljestan 9 September 1985 (aged 21) 1 0 Chivas USA
17 MF Kyle Beckerman 23 April 1982 (aged 25) 1 0 Colorado Rapids
18 GK Kasey Keller (c) 29 November 1969 (aged 37) 100 0 Borussia Mönchengladbach
19 MF Ricardo Clark 10 May 1983 (aged 24) 6 0 Houston Dynamo
20 FW Taylor Twellman 29 February 1980 (aged 27) 24 6 New England Revolution
21 MF Justin Mapp 18 October 1984 (aged 22) 5 0 Chicago Fire
23 GK Brad Guzan 9 September 1984 (aged 22) 1 0 Chivas USA
25 FW Lee Nguyễn 7 October 1986 (aged 20) 1 0 PSV
2007 GOLD CUP SQUAD (23 PLAYERS) AVG. AGE 25.6
1 GK Tim Howard 6 March 1979 (aged 28) 18 0 England Everton
2 DF Frankie Hejduk 5 August 1974 (aged 32) 72 5 United States Columbus Crew
3 DF Los Bocanegra (c) 25 May 1979 (aged 28) 44 6 England Fulham
4 MF Pablo Mastroeni 26 August 1976 (aged 30) 52 0 United States Colorado Rapids
5 DF Benny Feilhaber 19 January 1985 (aged 22) 2 0 Germany Hamburger SV
6 MF Michael Bradley 31 July 1987 (aged 19) 4 0 Netherlands Heerenveen
7 FW DaMarcus Beasley 24 May 1982 (aged 25) 62 12 Netherlands PSV
8 FW Clint Dempsey 9 March 1983 (aged 24) 26 6 England Fulham
9 FW Eddie Johnson 31 March 1984 (aged 23) 24 9 United States Kansas City Wizards
10 FW Landon Donovan 4 March 1982 (aged 25) 88 30 United States Los Angeles Galaxy
11 FW Brian Ching 24 May 1978 (aged 29) 21 4 United States Houston Dynamo
12 DF Jay DeMerit 4 December 1979 (aged 27) 1 0 England Watford
13 MF Jonathan Bornstein 7 November 1984 (aged 22) 2 1 United States Chivas USA
14 MF Steve Ralston 14 June 1974 (aged 32) 32 4 United States New England Revolution
15 DF Frankie Simek 13 October 1984 (aged 22) 1 0 England Sheffield Wednesday
16 DF Michael Parkhurst 24 January 1984 (aged 23) 0 0 United States New England Revolution
17 MF Jonathan Spector 1 March 1986 (aged 21) 5 0 England West Ham United
18 GK Kasey Keller 29 November 1969 (aged 37) 87 0 Germany Borussia Mönchengladbach
19 MF Ricardo Clark 10 February 1983 (aged 24) 3 0 United States Houston Dynamo
20 FW Taylor Twellman 29 February 1980 (aged 27) 20 5 United States New England Revolution
21 MF Justin Mapp 18 October 1984 (aged 22) 2 0 United States Chicago Fire
22 DF Oguchi Onyewu 13 May 1982 (aged 25) 18 1 Belgium Standard Liège
23 GK Brad Guzan 9 September 1984 (aged 22) 1 0 United States Chivas USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The makeup of 2007 Copa America team was the result of the 2009 Confederations Cup. The Confed Cup was being held in South Africa one year before the 2010 World Cup and was seen as the perfect dress rehearsal tournament . It’s a shame the thing is now moribund.
If you wanted to get invited you had to be CONCACAF Champ. That meant winning the 2007 Gold Cup Final. This also affected JK ,though the rules were a little different for him. Suffice it to say that during that time if the Confederations Cup was on the line the Gold Cup got the best we had.
If the Confederatons Cup was not on the line, like in the 2009 then this is what you got. They lost the 2009 Gold Cup final to Mexico 5-0.
2009 GOLD CUP SQUAD
1 GK Troy Perkins 20 July 1981 (aged 27) 1 0 Norway Vålerenga
2 DF Heath Pearce 13 August 1984 (aged 24) 23 0 Germany Hansa Rostock[23]
3 DF Clarence Goodson 17 May 1982 (aged 27) 2 0 Norway IK Start
4 DF Chad Marshall 22 August 1984 (aged 24) 4 1 United States Columbus Crew
5 MF Kyle Beckerman 23 April 1982 (aged 27) 3 0 United States Real Salt Lake
6 DF Cherundolo (Captain)19 February 1979 (aged 30) 51 2 Germany Hannover 96
7 MF Robbie Rogers 12 May 1987 (aged 22) 1 0 United States Columbus Crew
8 MF Logan Pause 22 August 1981 (aged 27) 0 0 United States Chicago Fire
9 FW Charlie Davies 25 June 1986 (aged 23) 10 2 Sweden Hammarby IF[24]
10 MF Stuart Holden 1 August 1985 (aged 23) 0 0 United States Houston Dynamo
11 FW Brian Ching 24 May 1978 (aged 31) 36 9 United States Houston Dynamo
12 DF Jimmy Conrad 12 February 1977 (aged 32) 24 1 United States Kansas City Wizards
13 MF Colin Clark 11 April 1984 (aged 25) 0 0 United States Colorado Rapids
14 DF Michael Parkhurst 24 January 1984 (aged 25) 5 0 Denmark Nordsjælland
15 MF Sam Cronin 12 December 1986 (aged 22) 0 0 Canada Toronto FC
16 DF Jay Heaps 2 August 1976 (aged 32) 0 0 United States New England Revolution
17 FW Kenny Cooper 21 October 1984 (aged 24) 4 2 United States FC Dallas[25]
18 GK Luis Robles 11 May 1984 (aged 25) 0 0 Germany 1. FC Kaiserslautern
19 MF Freddy Adu 2 June 1989 (aged 20) 13 1
Portugal Benfica[26]
20 FW Santino Quaranta 14 October 1984 (aged 24) 11 0 United States D.C. United
21 MF Brad Evans 20 April 1985 (aged 24) 0 0 United States Seattle Sounders FC
22 MF Davy Arnaud 22 June 1980 (aged 29) 2 0 United States Kansas City Wizards
23 GK Jon Busch 18 August 1976 (aged 32) 1 0 United States Chicago Fire
25 MF Benny Feilhaber 19 January 1985 (aged 24) 22 2 Denmark AGF
*****************************************************************************
In 2007 because of the Confederations Cup tie in, the Gold Cup was prioritized over 2007 Copa America even though you’d think CA was the more prestigious tournament.
Once that was secured the 2009 Gold Cup was a throw away since Bob was saving his guys for the 2009 Confederations Cup.
“some of our gold cup teams were more tryout teams.”
It wasn’t that clear cut.
Looking at those two squads:
1. The 2007 Gold Cup squad was older, which you would expect but only by an average age of 1.3 years. It was the A team because it had LD, Clint and Boca , Gooch and Timmy on it.
2. There were 6 players on both the Copa America and the Gold Cup squads in 2007, two keepers, Kasey and Guzan, Eddie Johnson, Twellman, Bornstein and Jay Demerit.
3. The 2007 CA team had 22 players and only 2 keepers.
“how did that second term klinsi attitude of always call the starters, become the norm? no, peak US in the 2000s mcbride or reyna skipped all the time, friedel and keller didn’t know who’d start, etc.”
McBride was in his 30’s ( born in 1972) by the 2000’s and had sustained a lot of battle damage. There was no reason to call him in unless it was a big game.
Same thing with Reyna. In the 2000’s , Claudio Adams was injured a lot when at Sunderland and Man City,
As for Friedel and Keller ”didn’t know who’d start” well I did know. It turns out Brad announced after 2004 that he was retired from the USMNT unless it was an emergency but with Kasey around that wasn’t going to happen. Timmy took over from Kasey pretty much after the 2006 World Cup. In the 2000’s, most of us knew who the starting keeper was going to be.
Vac, I think you are having some selective memory. I will give you the dates of all the games and you can look up the match report on the internet to see the lineups and game stats. While stats can be misleading, I remeber all of these games well except the loss to Jamaica and they pretty accurately reflect how I remeber those games.
June 22, 2006. Ghana beats US. IMO, US had a much better team and were incredibly unlucky to lose the game. Ghana had no idea how to defend, was out possessed, out shot, had 4 yellow cards, had 7 saves, and score on a bogus PK call that 99 out 100 times would never have even occurred because that was the 1 time in 100 that Bocenegra would have miskicked the ball so badly it went into the air in the US box. The other goal came from Reyna blowing his knee out with no contact giving Ghana a 1 on 1. I won’t give as much detail for the rest but stories are similar.
June 26, 2010. Ghana was much better and the game was more even but IMO, US was still the better team even with Bradley and Donovan gassed from the group stage. Ghana still had to resort to extreme fouling to stop US – 19 fouls. If the teams were even and the US lost, then they were unlucky to lose.
July 22 2015: Klinsmann plays his A team (so I think he cared amd probably the beginning of his beef with Donovan because he declines to play) and loses to Jamaica. US 60% possession outshoots them 20 to 10 with 10 shots on goal compared to Jamaica’s 3. Jamaica was lucky to win which means US was unlucky to lose.
July 7, 2019: IMO Mexico’s team is significantly more talented than the US team. Mexico has 56% possession, outshoots US 20 – 11.
August 1, 2021: Mexico has essentially their A team playing a US D team. Mexico has 63% possession and outshoots the US 22-14. US was lucky to win that game.
You can still be lucky to win a game you should win if you play like poop. Even though US should have beat Jamaica, scoring a goal on the last touch of regulation to tie a game is pretty lucky.
Of Gregg’s 10 elimination game wins, he was lucky to win 30% of them. Neither of his 2 losses were due to bad luck. He is well above the bell curve for being lucky.
He also will not show that he is a great coach in Copa even if US wins it. What does showing that you are a great coach look like to you? It can’t be results based only because then you would think Gregg is a good coach if he wins Copa and I don’t think you would. I think you would say he was lucky.
Tele57,
I saw all those games as well.
1. The “Berhalter lucky” discussion should not include games that Gregg had nothing to do with.
2. “August 1, 2021: Mexico has essentially their A team playing a US D team. Mexico has 63% possession and outshoots the US 22-14. US was lucky to win that game.”
Possession % means almost nothing if you don’t score. Mexico generally wins the possession% battle against everyone they play. A higher possession % does not mean you are the better team. It just means that is how you play. And maybe, that the other guy is letting you hold possession.
And if you don’t score, outshooting someone definitely means shit. The USMNT was not lucky to win that game, they just wanted it more.
This game showed you that even our D team is better than their A team.
Which has been my point.
3. “July 7, 2019: IMO Mexico’s team is significantly more talented than the US team. ”
I didn’t think so. We had the best , most dangerous player in Pulisic. And even if El Tri were significantly more talented, so what? That would invalidate your argument that Gregg is lucky.
Lucky managers upset better teams. Gregg lost. Gregg has yet to upset anyone.
Jozy and Ariolla both missed very decent chances early in the first half. If Gregg was lucky they should have made one or even both. Mexico won because Gregg, needing a goal to tie and finally looking like they might tie the game brought left back Lovitz on at the 83rd minute for Ream. That killed their momentum.
“Mexico has 56% possession, outshoots US 20 – 11.”
Note my previous comments on that topic.