Confirming rumors that have been circulating in the New York/Jersey area for years, New York Mets vice president David Howard revealed that the Mets are interested in buying an MLS franchise in New York.
Howard also stated that a Mets-owned MLS team would have its own stadium, and would not share the Mets new Citi Field.
MLS Vice President of Communications Dan Courtemanche told Bloomberg that a Mets-owned New York franchise could be one of the league’s expansion teams in 2011.
What’s my take? I have been saying it for years: A second MLS franchise in New York is inevitable. I know there are enough jokes from folks outside of the area that the market doesn’t even support the team that’s here, but having a second team in the area that plays in New York City could provide a boost for the league as well as the New York Red Bulls by creating a natural rivalry. With Philadelphia set to join in 2010, having a third team in close proximity would create some amazing rivalries and help MLS establish a more visible foothold in the local sports scene.
It is time for a poll:
What do you think about a second New York MLS team? Like the idea? Hate it? Share your thoughts below.
To Chosun:
OK. Yeah that pretty much sucks as far as traveling convenience goes in NYC. I have experienced the subway plenty, so I do have an idea what you’re talking about.
At the same time, the closest opportunity that I have for MLS is two days driving or a $200-$300 plane ticket to Houston from Atlanta.
So I hope all the NYC area soccer fans will understand why I’m vehemently opposed to the new second team notion, especially when MLS, Chivas, and L.A. have failed to prove that the “intercity rivalry” brings in enough fans to support both teams.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be all that opposed to Chivas moving to NYC to help build that. NYC was always a better option for that experiment IMO.
I just think it’s a failure on MLS’s part to put a new franchise in NYC when they have an opportunity to expand the league’s footprint. Obviously, I would like a team that’s somewhat convenient to me. I would just like the league to acknowledge the needs of their fans in this part of the country.
I laugh at the people who insist NYRB is “not a New York team” … then wear Giants or Jets stuff on Sundays.
” the only folks who like this proposal live in NYC or suburban Long Island and CT”
So we’re talking “only” 12.5 million people. And I’m not counting Staten Island. Taking out Suffolk County, some of which is very far from NYC, we’re still talking over 10 million.
Sorry, it’s a no brainer. There isn’t another untapped market like that in North America.
Portland AND Vancouver? It will be one or the other, probably Vancouver.
And for a sense of scale, both Portland and Vancouver have metro populations of around 2.2 million. Long Island (which is where the team’s support would come from) has 7.5 million. That’s more than both combined. Let me tell you – the Queens Irish alone will sell out the team.
SeaOtter: I think you miss the point. Most everyone from NYC who’s on Ives’ blog is already a supporter of RBNY. It’s the hundreds of thousands of soccer fans in the five boroughs who don’t give a damn about MLS that make the difference. People in the park will ask me what the horrendously ugly jersey I’m wearing is, and I’ll say it’s the NY Red Bulls. If they’re able to contain their laughs at the name, they then ask where they play, and so ends the conversation.
Also, I trek to Giant’s stadium to support the team, but really don’t like it too much. It’s not out of laziness or cheapness–the stadium and its staff suck and the Port Authority’s buses are a nightmare. Have you ever been on the NYC subways during rush hour? Ok, imagine that, but at least 3-4 times worse because everyone is going to the same place at the same time. Last game I went to, the lines to return to NYC after the game completely circled the parking lot we were in. My friend decided that he would just drop my friends and me off at the nearest train…which took 2 hrs to get to because of the traffic coming out of Giant’s Stadium.
As a non-New Yorker, I don’t like this idea at all, and I’m curious how many of the yes votes don’t come from people who’d like to have a team closer to their house. I’d much rather see teams get spread around a little more. If there’s going to be another team in the east, I’d rather see a team in Montreal. And though Metrologist wants us to base our personal preferences on his opinions and feelings rather than our own, I’d like to see a team in St. Louis, as I think they deserve one, based on the history of the sport there and such. It’s a semantic argument though. While I’m well aware that MLS won’t be making decisions based on my personal whims, it actually does come down to which who “deserves” a team. Whichever prospective city with an ownership group that puts together the best bid – as in whoever convinces the league that their town is the place that would be most successful were a new team be placed there – is the city that “deserves” a new team.
That said, and this is a different argument, I want to put the brakes on this mad rush to expand. There’s so much talk about how teams aren’t deep enough, and that the US youth system can’t produce enough players to stock the league yet, and that we also need to expand rosters and give them more depth, so where would the players come from – just bring in more foreigners? I’ve also heard reports that some existing teams just want the revenue from expansion fees. Anyone reminded of the NASL here, especially by the previous sentence?
Walker-
You are such a stuck up ahole.
Do everyone from the garden state a favor and never come here again.
Oh, and, the definition of NYC is consumerism. how does the demographics of NJ suit(an admittedly stupid)name like red bull?
-Mike
Several points:
The first and mosut important: THIS IS ANOTHER GREAT SIGN of the league’s growth. These are big money guys with marketing know-how. It’s huge that they want in and makes the deal a no-brainer.
I will roll up my other points into this one: More people live between Harrison NJ and the site of a stadium in Queens then live in some states. Draw two twenty mile (overlapping) circles around the stadiums and you have two populations of millions – with tons of money – available to support the teams. This is a slam dunk – although I suspect it will drive St Louis completely out of the picture for future franchises, which is unfortunate.
Not opposed to the idea but i do think they should prioritize Montreal, Portland, Vancouver, St Louis where there is proven support (well not really with St Louis but..)
Itd be a huge mistake to ignore Montreal and Vancouver (please spare me youre anti Canadian rants)
Saint Louis and Portland are much more deserving cities. New York gets very low attendance and Miami has already failed, give cities that actually have a strong soccer history a shot.
Portland, Vancouver deserve a team before a second NY team. All the arguments you make about rivalries have already been proved between the three teams in the NW. But as usual, the NYcentric press and MLS will no doubt put the NY team undeservedly at the front of the line.
Awesome – Portland and NYC, get it done. Sounds like a good plan to me. I would think in the years beyond that some cities like St. Louis, Miami, Atlanta could get a proper bid together (stadium plan and ownership with money).
There should have been a yes, but not in 2011 choice, cuz I think there are other geographical regions that would be more important first.
I love how all the New Yorkers say they have such a strong soccer community in their burrough so they should get their own team.
Or the classic, “Its not in the city, so I can’t support it.”
If you really wanted to show that you deserved a second team, then you’d be supporting RBNY and helping sell out every game.
What you’re really saying is that you’re either too lazy or too cheap to take public transportation out too East Rutherford.
I’d love to see a second NY team (bring back The Cosmos) in the city b/c the rivalries between Boston, Phily, NYC, and NJ would eventually be great.
But I certainly won’t support it right now just b/c you don’t want to trouble yourselves supporting the option that you do have.
Would the NY Red Bull suddenly become the NJ Red Bull? I doubt it.
I like the idea of another NY team and agree it will happen sooner or later but let’s make it later. The Red Bulls can feud with DC United as well as the upcoming Philadelphia team. Let’s be honest, anyone from the tri-state area knows the NY-Philly rivalry is so much better than NY vs NY or should I say NY vs NJ.
I liked the expansion to Seattle and Philly. I think the next move would be an area that is soccerless, not an area that has soccer and barely supports it. I think expansion should look at Milwaukee/Green Bay,somewhere in the Midwest (Oklahoma City), or even the Gulf Coast.
NY can have their 2nd club later. Please PLEASE let Portland and Vancouver be the next two. It will put the NW on the map.
Orange Mike,
I am actually looking forwards to make the trek to the new stadium, seems easy enough. It would be interesting to see if the new location also helps with the immigrant population in Newark.
Cheers
This is good, queens has a strong soccer population that would support a team. This would cause a great rivalry as Ives described and will also put pressure on the Red Bulls to put a winning team on the field and get the stadium up and running.
It is a win win situation and I think the NY area can support two teams.
This is stupid. The Red Bulls need another team to boost attendance because of a rivalry????? As a Crew fan, even I think that is pathetic. Why doesn’t NY try and have one team that isn’t a joke before they add another team.
Not one single team in the Southeastern U.S. and MLS wants to put two in NYC?!!!
Give me a break.
They’ve got a team there that doesn’t get the support it needs already. Sure there might be a rivalry developed between two “New York” teams and that’ll gaurantee there’ll be what….25K people in attendance in one of their stadiums for 2 or 3 games out of the season? Sweet!
There are demographics in the Southeast (no Miami doesn’t count) to support a team. MLS needs to get off its butt and make it happen for their fans here. At least try to make it look like they care.
I, for one, can find another place to put my MLS DK and merchandise money.
And The Mets blow by the way.
Transit stops just a block or two from the new park in Harrison. The NYC crowd will have no more excuses. Last time I checked the Giants and Jets also played in Jersey. On the otherhand if the Mets poney up the cash then MLS would have to respect the offer, no?
Don,
New York City IS the world!
Cheers
KingSnake: You’re right that MLS has to be very careful when owners in competing sports want in. That said, there are legitimate reasons that an organization like the Mets might want to buy a soccer franchise. There are synergies (selling tickets, mowing the grass, hiring security guards, etc. ) that make it make sense economically.
The Mets organization knows now what they need to make a great team and what to do to get fans in. I will tell you this I see them making a Beckham type move and making a solid team around them. I will also bet they make the play-offs their 1st season, and get more fans then the Red Bulls. I can see this team going places, as the Red Bulls curse continues on.
The Metro/RB franchise should have been in NYC from the very beginning. Unfortunately, MLS placed them in the middle of the swamps and tried to market them to the suburbanites. Therefore the low attendances.
Now, more than 8.1 million people live in NYC (the five boroughs only, not CT or LI), and it has the public infrastructure to mobilize 3-3.5 million people every day. Most of the people in NYC live outside Manhattan, and a lot of them are of immigrant decent, which is what MLS now realizes it should market to. Most of NYC residents do not have cars.
Now, getting from any borough outside Manhattan to NJ is a nightmare. Just ask the people who go to see the Giants and Jets or the NJ Devils.
Football is from the inner city, and if you walk around Queens or the Bronx or Brooklyn you will see people kicking a ball in the parks. They just need a local team to root for. That is why a franchise in NYC has more of a chance to succeed than any team in the swamps.
Cheers
The big problem with expansion is that the level of play is returning to 1996-level MLS. You can keep building SSS and all that jazz but if the “product” is no good, I don’t think the league will be successful.
If the plan is to get to 20 teams, it’s going to take quite some time to fill that talent void.
But I noticed one thing in the other major league sports–the owners don’t want real fans, they want fans with money. so if they sell a bunch of sky boxes to fat cats who see the game as another corporate “outing” then they really don’t care.
I prefer to see teams given a shot where there is a pre-existing supporters culture.
Like Portland and Seattle.
I also do not think we need another group of owners who because they are in a big city believe that they should be able to buy whatever they want. Does Mets ownership understand the problems single entity and small caps cause!?! Because it does not look like RBNJ understood it.
they’re going to pony up $300m for a SSS in Queens? seems unlikely.
can you imagine being a developmental player in NYC? or even making $40k? ugly.
the red bulls are not a city team. they are a NJ suburban team. the fact that they are a walking advertisement fits the demo even more (kind of like the Pepsis or New Jersey Arizona Iced Teas). the city needs a real team. a team that will draw the vast soccer loving population of queens, brooklyn, the bronx, yonkers, and westchester. people who live here do not want to trek to the swamp. please let this happen. it will be the first time I support anything the Mets do.
As a die-hard Phillies fan… and of course a member of the Sons of Ben… if the Mets got an MLS franchise I would instantly have immense hatred and dislike for said franchise. It would be great. I can only imagine the kind of rivalry that would develop between a Philly team and TWO teams from New York.
how awesome would it be if the metropolitans bought the rights and called them the cosmopolitans. NY Cosmos!!!!
How about a team in the southeast before another one in New York?
Some comments above infer that MLS solely decides where to place expansion soccer teams based on national market “coverage” of the soccer fan base. While this clearly is a factor, expansion team selection is based on evaluation of applications from prospective ownership groups. What matters are the proposals put forth to the league office including the comparative viability of their investment plans and stadium deemed suitable for soccer. Put another way: a PROSPECTIVE EXPANSION MARKET NEEDS TO HAVE SOMEONE OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE WILLING TO INVEST IN THAT MARKET. No prospective ownership group and no viable plan then no team regardless of the fan base in that market.
I didn’t understand why the Red Bulls didn’t move their team to NYC in the first place. They could have become NY’s team – now they are probably going to be second fiddle to the Mets’ team, plus then they would have proven the viability of the market (or lack thereof) and we wouldn’t be having this debate.
Where are the players going to be sourced? There isn’t enough American talent around for the teams we have in MLS now.
Waiting = good.
Imagine the passions igniting when The Mets FC Presented by The Wiz 50 away supporters SWARM into theoretical Red Bull park and the 100 voices shouting each other down.
Makes the spine tingle. Yeah, screw St. Louis!
Best case scenario is NYRB becomes the Nets. And about as relevant.
This is the begining of the end for red bull. The heartbreaking story of the Metrostars coming to a close.
13 years of utter failure, years of playing in a shithole stadium and dropping the ball on a new stadium, poor management that led to a sale to AEG who just wanted to cost cut and then dump the franchise off on a buyer.
HAving Red Bull come in and take over the team and change its name into a mockery to any traditional fan.
They will build this nice stadium and struggle to fill it to half capasity, meanwhile across the river a new team, with no baggage and no silly insulting name will get to start from scratch and do things right, ripping a potential NYC fan market out from under their noses, seeing an exodus of disinfranchised fans of NYRB call time on the hole ordeal.
No make no mistake, this won’t strengthen a rivalry, this will effective kill off one team to make room for another.
They are looking to build where old shea is now after they tear it down Milo.
Once again furball, you miss the point.
“Deserve” has nothing to do with who’s going to get the next few franchises.
That said, NYC is more than deserving of a team on its own merits.
where, there is no land in NYC to build a stadium, I dont even think there is land even in Queens, unless the Mets plan on spending an insane amount.
Ives, could you clarify where the satdium would be?
The only way NY will support a team is if they are a winner with big name stars. I don’t think New Yorkers are going to cheer for a Ronaldinho surrounded by a bunch of Alan Gordans and Chad Barretts.
On the other hand, the Portland Timbers have supported their USL team all season even after being a bottom of the table team. The Timbers had 13,000 fans tonight cheering for a team that sucks and had no chance of making the playoffs. Portland, Montreal and Vancouver deserve expansion spots, not NY, St.Louis and Miami.
If they announce it this fall its likely a death blow to red bull as far as being anything close to a major media player in the region. The region will do what it does to any team located 4 miles on the west side of the Hudson…bury them in the press and hype the team 4 miles east of the east river.
Deathblow 2, without having time to reconnect with the fans they lost over the years in their own stadium under their own rules and carrying the stupid name they have the lose all those fans.
Deathblow 3- only if Red Bull continue not to win anything people will just give up on them and bandwagon jump the other team if they happen to win alot.
I suspect that the stadium might actually be next door to Citi Field on the site of the current Shea Stadium….also think that being in the boroughs and having access to transit (key for long island/NYC fans) the team would be very successful…
The parochialism of the insular world of NYC is always breath-taking to behold.
if Fred Wilpon buys the Cosmos rights and names the team the New York Cosmos im in ! Till then Long live the Metro/Bulls!
How about the Mets buy RBNY and rename them something that’s not totally retarded? Sorry, I’m a RB fan, but the renaming of the Metrostars didn’t sit well with me, and probably won’t for some time.
I think NY can handle another team that’s based in one of the five boroughs. In fact, I’m sure that they would have a huge fan base (as long as the Mets don’t totally screw it up).
Before RB has a chance to settle in the area? They’ve been there for almost three years.
And don’t give me the “give them another X years in their new stadium” jive. That’s another season and then some away. And we’ve seen how SSS solve all attendance woes – or not – in other MLS cities.
If Wilpon’s willing to stump up now (or in the next couple years), Garber would be stupid, stupid, stupid to say “come back in a decade or so – we’ve really got to give these Austrian jokers a little more time.”
No, because Miami needs a team, thats where I live. All jokes aside, even if Miami dosent get a team, the southeast needs a team badly, it’s rediculous how there is still no team. And dont blame the Fusions downfall on the fans, we were increasing attendance, it was the owner who didnt care.
I don’t think other cities are clamoring to build the Soccer Specific stadiums that MLS needs. I’m all for spreading MLS geographically, but most of the talk about SSS from other cities has just been talk and little in the way of actually building the things.
Posted by: JB | September 11, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Hello Pot? It’s Kettle. You’re black.
MLS is in its 13th season. How many SSS does greater NYC have again?