With the New Year upon is, it is time to start thinking about which two lucky cities will be granted MLS expansion franchises. While the FC Barcelona-backed Miami bid has received plenty of attention in recent weeks, it isn't the bid that makes the most sense.
The bid that remains the best of the bunch is the St. Louis expansion bid. Boasting a much stronger bid than the one that barely lost out to Philadelphia in the last round of expansion, St. Louis just makes too much sense to not be one of the two cities chosen by MLS later this month.
Jeff Cooper, the head of the St. Louis expansion bid, feels the same way and he believes the city's bid has all the necessary components to make a St. Louis expansion franchise a rousing success.
"First of all, if you look across at all the bid, you have a lot of great cities and great bids, and my hope is that every city that bids gets a team eventually so MLS is a true national coast-to-coast league," Cooper told SBI. "That being said, our bid is certainly as good or better than any other bid when you look at the scope of the project."
What is so special about the St. Louis bid? Where do you want to start?
The St. Louis includes a stadium deal that has already received approval for public funding, a city with unmatched soccer history and tradition, a city with one of the strongest youth soccer systems in the country and a diverse ownership group stronger than the one MLS had reservations about in the last round of expansion.
So how could MLS realistically pass on St. Louis yet again?
The muscle behind the Miami bid has pushed it to the front of the expansion line, leaving most to believe that the battle remains for the other slot, which would pit St. Louis against the likes of Portland and Vancouver.
The biggest, and perhaps only weakness in the city's losing bid last year was an ownership group that wasn't considered to have a strong enough financial foundation. The new bid is expected to include a handful of new investors, with St. Louis Cardinals star Albert Pujols the first of the new investors to be revealed publicly.
Will that be enough to overcome the clout of high-profile investors like Marcelo Claure in Miami or Jeff Mallett in Vancouver? Cooper doesn't believe it needs to.
"The truth is in MLS you don’t need billionaires to operate these franchises," Cooper said. "You’re limited as to what you can spend on your payroll and on your club. I think our group is substantial enough to handle MLS financials. We’re certainly stout enough to put the project together that we’ve put together."
The St. Louis group has also been able to secure public funding for a stadium, something several long-standing MLS teams have been unable to do, and none of the other current expansion candidates are as close to getting done.
The securing of the stadium funding for the 18,500-seat stadium in the St. Louis suburb of Collinsville alone should make St. Louis a strong contender to be one of the two cities chosen for a 2011 franchise. When you consider the entire St. Louis bid, it should be an easy decision to make. As exciting as Miami's bid may be, and as strong the fan support in Portland might be, neither of those bids should be standing ahead of St. Louis when it comes to selecting the 2011 expansion cities.
St. Louis has the best bid and should be awarded the MLS team it has been waiting so many years for. The league has run out of excuses for keeping that from happening.
@Voodoo and Barry P:
Thanks for the STL-perspective on Collinsville.
Let me sum up what my basic argument- No more Commerce City, Frisco, Meadowlands, and Foxboro garbage. There is only one suburb location doing well attendance-wise, and that is Bridgeview. I attribute their success to a good team dynamic and a god-like Mexican named Blanco.
I hope Collinsville is more like Sandy, Utah rather than the others listed above…as Sandy is not a big departure from what the City actually is. Why I favor Portland over the rest of the bids…good established fanbase in a stadium that is a part of Portland. I think a major flaw in MLS is the fact that they would rather have fancier stadiums in suburb locations. True soccer fans would much rather have crap in the city.
I couldn’t agree more with Ives, great piece. It’s about time for St. Louis to get a team….
St. Louis Athletico (see the WPS Athletica, http://www.stl-wps.com/) and Vancouver Whitecaps FC in 2011… with Portland Timbers FC and the Miami-Barcelona contraption coming in 2012, after they work out a stadium deal.
Travis in Miami,
There is no agreed and funded plan for a SSS in Miami at present. That’s a fact. Barca came with the idea of playing at FIU’s football stadium, which IMO is not good enough. If the potential ownership can agree with Miami or the surrounding areas on a SSS and get it financed, they should get the expansion team. If not, no expansion.
Travis — thanks — I hate how every expansion seems to devolve into “Why Miami sucks for sports”.
VictorM,
Stats can be misleading.
The track record for attendance for the St. Louis Stars was more a reflection of the venue than fan enthusiasm. They played at the Washington University Battlin’ Bear stadium where capacity was a few thousand in seats, and the rest was standing room only.
To average anywhere near 10k in attendance as your stats show for 1977 was a monumental feat in itself.
A SSS would make a huge difference.
Strider–obviously I confused I-40 with I-70. It has been over 20 years since I’ve even set foot in the St Louis metro area. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
It really should be Portland and Vancouver honestly. It makes sure the Seattle Franchise isn’t bleeding money on travel expenses for years being in a remote portion of the country with nobody to play nearby. It doesn’t just create a “natural” rivalry but rather a historic rivalry going back to NASL days. That doesn’t exist in the league at all and that kind of thing is critical to validity and success.
I do like the idea of St. Louis, but in reality they’re a baseball town. I know there is a small passionate fan base there, but I don’t think it would be enough to support a big league club. Cripes, they can’t even pull together a USL club.
St. Louis also has a stadium plan that is complete bunk. How much of that retail space is going to sit empty for how long in this current economic crisis? Gas isn’t going to cost $1.69 forever once OPEC starts cutting production and then are people going to want to drive 30-40 miles and back to go to an MLS game in a suburb?
All that being said…Miami is in no matter how awful of a town Miami will be for MLS (and how much money are they going to lose not being able to sell beer in the college football stadium???) because everyone has googly eyes for Barca. Plus nobody cares about sports there. Empty stadiums unless their teams are in first place and even then it’s sketchy if the fans will show.
Matt – this thread isn’t about Miami so i will simply say you should do more research on the Miami plan including the fan base they are targeting and where it is located in relation to the SOCCER stadium in which they will be playing (temporarily) that happens to be used by a football team (see FIU soccer program).
I don’t think Cooper’s right about the question of having enough cash to finance a team long-term. The league is right looking for very deep pocketed investors. Just looking at Montreal which pulled out for economic/financial reasons even though they had a billionare backer and Philly potentially struggling even though their pockets were deeper than the St. Louis bid. MLS likely can’t project well when all teams will be making profit, could be 5 yrs, 10 yrs, longer, difficult to say. To get investors with the ability to stick around for a long time you need to find ones with very deep pockets who are not going to be perturbed by losing $4-5 million or more per year for years without a clear sense of when they’ll start making money.
I also don’t believe Miami should be at the top of the pack because they don’t have an adequate stadium deal in place. In fact, they have NO soccer-specific stadium deal, which the league acknowledges is key for this business. Miami is planning to play in a new college football stadium outside of the city, likely with football lines all over the field.
Look, given the economic environment and the current bids on the table, if there are no adequate bids by MLS’ most stringent standards (well financed and preferrably local owners, SSS deals in place, strong soccer/sports markets, etc.) than the league should make the better business choice NOT to expand and just sit tight with 16 teams until better bids come along.
bfq, Downtown St. Louis is right on the Mississippi river with Illinois immediately opposite. This stadium location is much closer to downtown than the Chicago Fire’s new home in Bridgeview. Also, the traffic patterns are much better to get there. Of course, the reason is the cost of land. Land in downtown is many times more expensive than in the burbs.
Voodoo, I-40 does not now, nor ever did run through St. Louis. Collinsville is between I-55/70 and I-64 about 15 miles east of downtown St. Louis.
I’ll quote Clint Eastwood in the Unforgiven: “Deserve got nothing to do with it.”
Really, forget history and deserve and all that crap. The decision should be based on sound business principles. St. Louis has a great history in participation on the sport, but will it generate the sufficient buzz to fill a stadium and garner enough TV attention? Does it have the kind of TV market that helps MLS with national ratings?
I’m not saying it doesn’t fit the bill or that it’s not indeed a good market, I’m just saying… deserve got nothing to do with it.
We’re talking about another stadium in the suburbs. The track record of such stadiums elsewhere hasn’t been great. When St. Louis had a team in the NASL it didn’t flourish at the gate, another sign that history and youth participation doesn’t carry the day. In fact, their attendance was piss poor: * 1967 – 7613
* 1968 – 5388
* 1969 – 2274
* 1970 – 2745
* 1971 – 3579
* 1972 – 7773
* 1973 – 6337
* 1974 – 7374
* 1975 – 6071
* 1976 – 6150
* 1977 – 9794
This during some of the years the Cosmos, Minnesota, Vancouver, Tampa Bay were doing really well. St. Louis never did.
Deserve got nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you can consider St. Louis unless you have the total package:
SS Stadium – Maybe, I’m not sure I believe it. Remember Phili’s “Guarantee’d stadium” and San Jose’s “We’ll work real hard on that” not to mention the three years it took Salt Lake to get theirs.
Rich Owner – Now quite there though I point out that we should choose not owners based on deep pockets. That usually means they are OK with losing money year after year and that isn’t a valid business plan.
Large, soccer happy city – Definitely
Unfortunately, I would say hold off unless all three are met even if it means MLS doesn’t grow as quickly as we’d like.
I’d definitely say no to Miami:
1. Completely unacceptable stadium – I thought MLS wasn’t supposed to have Football stadiums. It’s not even in the right city.
2. I still don’t see any real advantage to having Barcelona as an owner beyond deep pockets
a. because they don’t understand the market.
b. no one is going to see Barcelona Miami if they think Barcelona Spain is the only product worth watching.
c. I doubt that a foreign club would have a long term business plan to make it world class. $60 Mill for the club. $150 Mill for a SSS (which they aren’t even going to build) and $3 – $6 million in annual losses would probably get tiresome quickly. Remember that USL franchise in San Fran a couple years ago? It lasted what, six months?
d. Despite the pundit’s opinions, there’s not advantage in “gaining first choice access to MLS talent”. If there is ever a US/MLS player that Barcelona would want (Possible but not likely in the near future), I’m sure they could buy them without a $60 Mill franchise fee.
Too bad Montreal bowed out. They were just about everyone’s first choice. Vancouver is probably second on my list (I don’t have a fetish for canadian teams).
Portland might be too small. Ottawa definitely is.
New York’s second team ( or first) was never really an option.
My recommendation is…..accept none of the current bids.
St.Louis Stars, has a nice ring to it……
I would like to see Portland and St. Louis, but I know that’s not going to happen. I think it will be Miami and St. Louis. They’ll let the Portland and Vancouver offers for another round – a Seattle rivalry with either of those cities would be great for the league.
Now if only Green Bay could put together a good package to build on the pre-existing Chicago rivalry… ha!
Miami and St. Louis.
Put Miami in the Eastern Conference, St. Louis in the Eastern and slide Kansas City to the Western Conference.
Then give Vancouver or Portland the next expansion team. Maybe Atlanta the following.
PCFC,
Collinsville is located 12 miles just slightly north-east of downtown St. Louis. While it is not downtown St. Louis it is not the drive out to suburbia most would associate with the term suburb. Fifteen to twenty minutes from the arch would be a pretty accurate guess.
Is St. Louis only in Missouri or is it like KC where it’s split in 2 states? I only ask because I notice Collinsville is in Illinois. Why can’t more team have their stadiums in the city they are actually supposed to be from?
It’s great there are so many cities with great cases for teams. Of course I’m partial to the Miami. After that, i would tend to agree that St.Louis should have a team – and should have one already. In fact, I would award them the first team and Miami the second.
With that said I think all this expansion talk is inevitably linked to expectations of the upcoming CBA and obvious other needs of the league. If the league will be able to take steps forward by raising salary caps, reinstituting the reserve league, establishing academies, etc…the fiancial viability of the owners will have to be strong enough to support and enhance these changes, if not be able to withstand a disolution of the single entity system. I think Mr. Cooper’s assertion that the expansion teams don’t need to have a boat load of money on hand is a bit short sighted. It may be the case now but the ever “evolving” nature of the MLS will ultimately demand that to be the case.
This comment proves why Cooper has had trouble getting his bid through:
“You’re limited as to what you can spend on your payroll and on your club. I think our group is substantial enough to handle MLS financials.”
You “think” your group can handle a $2.5 million payroll? What about when payrolls are $5 million or $10 million?
This guy is a small-time operator who will hold back the big money guys and thus the development of the league. Unless he has some secret billionaires he’s not telling us about, I say “no thanks.” We need teams to be spending more money on the product, not just barely keeping up with today’s paltry “MLS financials.”
Brian: sort of — the company that wants to develop the Doraville property has proposed the idea to the Falcons; Blank and his companies aren’t developing it.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/12/24/falcons_doraville.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
But yeah, it is a perfect place for a stadium.
I Agree.
In an earlier post I commented that the two cities who made the most sense are the ones with the most developped youth soccer programs. With this in mind, it is then clear that St.Louis and Ottawa should get the 2011 MLS expansion franchises. Portland, Vancouver, Miami and Atlanta already have USL franchises (although the Atlanta one is now dormant) and their youth soccer (although well developped) is nowhere near St.Louis and Ottawa. This way you get a franchise in the US and Canada, you create a great rivalry with Toronto FC, you don’t hurt the USL, and you tap into the most developped youth soccer programs.
@Greg,
How so? What’s “preposterous”? It’s not conservative? Look at its elected officials…. It’s not racist? Explain East St Louis, and the white flight phenom that constitutes all its western suburbs.
My characterization of the metro area was accurate for the ’80s while I lived there. I assume it still is, unless there has been seismic changes that I’m not aware of.
Good article Ives. St. Louis is overdue for an MLS team. I hope MLS recognizes the need to have a MLS team there as well.
How are MLS corporate sponsors going to like having an owner who actively brings 100s of frivolous lawsuits against them a year in his hometown jurisdiction – a recognized “judicial hell-hole”?
It’s the catch-22 of Cooper’s involvement, he made all his money fleesing corporate america in frivolous lawsuits and now he is going to want them to sponsor his team!!!
Thanks for taking the time to really look at St. Louis rather than dismissing us as “another Kansas City”, as so many coastal MLS fans are prone to do.
@ Voodoo:
St. Louis is “pretty much what you expect–a conservative, racist, midwestern town”… said the prejudiced one? This is preposterous on several levels.
Brian, if the Doraville location is used for an MLS expansion team, I’d be thrilled. It’s a great location, right off the Perimeter…acessible from intown and the ‘burbs…and close to an evergrowing ethnic population in Norcross/Chamblee/Doraville.
I don’t understand MLS’ fascination with Miami. That city failed in MLS…and all of the formulaic arguments people can make about Atlanta being a bad sports town can go double for Miami.
2 World Series, and zero fan support, trouble selling out NFL playoff games, even their local college football team only drew when they dominated.
Atlanta is the capital of the south…and is the 8th or 9th largest TV market and growing.
Leaving it out means that the fastest growing region in the country (with one of the fastest growing Hispanic populations) will continue to not pay attention to your league.
PCFC,
You make a good point about stadium location. Collinsville is called a “suburb” in the article, when while I lived there, it was a different, and wholly autonomous town. I know St Louis very well (or at least I did 25 years ago) but I couldn’t even give you directions to Collinsville from downtown other than “…get on I-40 and head east….”
The NASL franchis–St. Louis Stars–used to play at the Washington Univ field some 30 years ago. That same UCity neighborhood would be ideal, if they could find space at a reasonable price.
the only positive for STL not being an MLS original is the potential name/crest is so much better than the Wiz/Wizards. The only negative I have with all of the expansion is the possible dilution of talent.
Kansas City got a franchise because of Lamar Hunt (who owned the KC Chiefs, thus allowing the Wiz to play their rent free)…
Hunt sold the team in 2006 to a local group who have since pledged to keep the team in KC. They aren’t moving, unless they are sold to an ownership group who would push such a move….
Miami and St. Louis for obvious reasons. But’s I’d really love to Portland get the next slot.
I agree with everyone that St. Louis should have a team and they have offer a strong bid to boot. At the same time, I have a hard time believing MLS will say no to FC Barcelona and Marcelo Claure. As for Portland or Vancouver, I would imagine they want to have a rivalry in the Pacific NW, plus they both have strong fan bases from what I understand. St. Louis will have some strong competition that is for sure.
The last question is, how many teams will MLS end up with?
For those that live in Atlanta and are interested, I read last week that the Falcons have bid on the property where the old GM plant is. I think this makes MUCH more sense than using Kennesaw St. Their intent would be to make it a big mixed use development. My guess is that the stadium would be shared by the Falcons and the potential MLS team.
It’s not as good as having a SSS, but the location would be great and I think it could really work (if not now, maybe in the next round of expansion).
is that their shield. i dig it.
St. Louis absolutely deserves a franchise. Anyone with half a brain could see this. I’m from Chicago and have been to St. Louis numerous times for soccer-related events (playing, coaching, etc.) It’s a soccer hotbed with quality fans. If the funding’s there, this move must be made.
Nice that you include a passionate in-depth op-ed to your list of objective reports. If it were not for one important aspect, I would agree with you 100%, but this one aspect is too important: a downtown stadium.
I think people are underestimating the value a downtown stadium has on sports franchises. On the other hand, this can vary from city to city and I don’t know STL that well.
100% dead on balls? That’s….interesting.
As someone who lives in Atlanta and wants a team here, St Louis is one of the other options I would understand if a team wasn’t placed here.
Portland > St. Louis
The fact is that many good arguments can be made for any number of cities. I’ve actually been a little more suprised at some of the cities that HAVE NOT come to the forefrount of these discussions, such as Raleigh, N.C., which already has a great soccer stadium, WakeMed Soccer Park, in the suburb of Cary that seats 9000, and could EASILY be expanded to seat more. They’ve hosted numerous NCAA championships, are home to the USL Carolina Railhawks, and have hosted both MNT and WNT games to sellout crowds. Additionally, fan support of soccer and knowledge of the game in that area is as good as anywhere.
I just point this out, because folks in Portland and Vancouver are going to have very viable arguments as to why they should be chosen over St. Louis.
Lastly, though, these things always seem to boil down to money, so whoever thinks they have the greater soccer tradition or fan base better be able to pony up the stadium and financial backing, or their case for a team is nothing more than words. St. Louis, from Ives’ report, seems to hold that advantage over the other contenders at this juncture, regardless of their traditon, which likely will prove to be their edge in getting a team.
Cooper needs to be more upfront about the money. Time and time again MLS has shown that strength of investors is its biggest priority when awarding expansion franchises. If there is serious money behind the St. Louis bid, St. Louis will be in. If not, it won’t be.
Thanks for the in depth look at St. Louis. People round here just don’t understand how a SSS and youth system can get overlooked so easily. PS Jeff Cooper is the main investor who got the stadium deal going.
Dear MLS Commissioner Don Garber,
Let’s not get caught up in the rhetoric of “financial support”, “soccer history”, or “stadium funding”. Let’s just make this decision on the reasonable argument that I live in Birmingham, AL and I really want a soccer team within driving distance. So, get on the phone with Arthur Blank and let’s make this thing happen! Atlanta needs MLS…..please…..
Sincerely,
Chris
I consider it an embarrassment to MLS that St. Louis wasn’t an original MLS city. It’s the most storied soccer town in this country bar none. Here’s to them getting a franchise.
Justin..no offense but if they keep drawing 17 fans per game, you’re clinging to hopes and dreams.
Kansas City won’t be moving. You guys can stop entertaining the idea…
Having grown up in the 80’s playing my club and high school soccer in St. Louis, I say with a bit of bias that St. Louis has to be looked on as one of the cradles of the sport in the US.
Soccer has thrived in the city and suburbs for the last century, even when it faltered elsewhere. I have no great love for the city in general; it’s pretty much what you expect–a conservative, racist, midwestern town–though the fact that it has produced a bevy of USMNT stand-outs, (Walter Kehough, Mike Sorber and Brian McBride to name but a few) cements its undeniable place soccer’s growth.
It would be an injustice if there were no MLS franchise in St Louis.
I agree 100% with this position Ives. Although also think Alijarov makes a great point. I never understood how Kansas City got a team over St Louis in the first place.
who is jeff cooper
So, say the bids go to St. Louis & Miami. Miami, obviously is in the Eastern Conference. St. Louis, by default, would have to be in the Western Conference.
Does that mean Kansas City, which is further west than StL stay in the East? Kind of backwards.
I’d rather they moved the KC franchise there (or somewhere) thus making 3 potential expansion sides from the 6 that could get a team.
Absolutely, 100% dead on balls accurate post.