With the New Year upon is, it is time to start thinking about which two lucky cities will be granted MLS expansion franchises. While the FC Barcelona-backed Miami bid has received plenty of attention in recent weeks, it isn't the bid that makes the most sense.
The bid that remains the best of the bunch is the St. Louis expansion bid. Boasting a much stronger bid than the one that barely lost out to Philadelphia in the last round of expansion, St. Louis just makes too much sense to not be one of the two cities chosen by MLS later this month.
Jeff Cooper, the head of the St. Louis expansion bid, feels the same way and he believes the city's bid has all the necessary components to make a St. Louis expansion franchise a rousing success.
"First of all, if you look across at all the bid, you have a lot of great cities and great bids, and my hope is that every city that bids gets a team eventually so MLS is a true national coast-to-coast league," Cooper told SBI. "That being said, our bid is certainly as good or better than any other bid when you look at the scope of the project."
What is so special about the St. Louis bid? Where do you want to start?
The St. Louis includes a stadium deal that has already received approval for public funding, a city with unmatched soccer history and tradition, a city with one of the strongest youth soccer systems in the country and a diverse ownership group stronger than the one MLS had reservations about in the last round of expansion.
So how could MLS realistically pass on St. Louis yet again?
The muscle behind the Miami bid has pushed it to the front of the expansion line, leaving most to believe that the battle remains for the other slot, which would pit St. Louis against the likes of Portland and Vancouver.
The biggest, and perhaps only weakness in the city's losing bid last year was an ownership group that wasn't considered to have a strong enough financial foundation. The new bid is expected to include a handful of new investors, with St. Louis Cardinals star Albert Pujols the first of the new investors to be revealed publicly.
Will that be enough to overcome the clout of high-profile investors like Marcelo Claure in Miami or Jeff Mallett in Vancouver? Cooper doesn't believe it needs to.
"The truth is in MLS you don’t need billionaires to operate these franchises," Cooper said. "You’re limited as to what you can spend on your payroll and on your club. I think our group is substantial enough to handle MLS financials. We’re certainly stout enough to put the project together that we’ve put together."
The St. Louis group has also been able to secure public funding for a stadium, something several long-standing MLS teams have been unable to do, and none of the other current expansion candidates are as close to getting done.
The securing of the stadium funding for the 18,500-seat stadium in the St. Louis suburb of Collinsville alone should make St. Louis a strong contender to be one of the two cities chosen for a 2011 franchise. When you consider the entire St. Louis bid, it should be an easy decision to make. As exciting as Miami's bid may be, and as strong the fan support in Portland might be, neither of those bids should be standing ahead of St. Louis when it comes to selecting the 2011 expansion cities.
St. Louis has the best bid and should be awarded the MLS team it has been waiting so many years for. The league has run out of excuses for keeping that from happening.
actually, garrett… st. louis has the 18th largest MSA (metropolitan statistical area) with 2.8 million people, and portland is the 23rd largest with 2.2 million.
guess what miami is?
7th. with 5.4 million people.
garber would have to be brain damaged to turn down miami in favor of portland or st louis.
@Voodoo:
I guess you’re not aware that the county executive of St. Louis County, Charlie Dooley, is also African-American, and has been re-elected twice. But hey, no skin off my nose if you want to cling to your prejudices.
“At this point, Portland might be the only bid I trust at all, and even that has small-market questions attached.”
Spot on…although I don’t know if Portland is that small market. It’s a metro area slated to grow by 1 million in the next 10 years…the media market is #25 in the country as is (St. Louis is #20) and you would immediately, from day one, have arguably the most intense rivalry in the MLS between Seattle and Portland.
scott47a hit the nail on the head for me. If Cooper’s group has the money they need to actually do this (rather than be a Ken Horowitz repeat), they need to be up front about it. When they say “Yeah, MLS has a low salary cap, so we don’t need to be that rich”, it tells me that a) they are not that rich and b) as the cap inevitably rises, there will come a point (probably not that far down the line) that they will either need to sell or fold. Is that really the kind of situation MLS wants to get into?
Cooper has been on about this for years, and still hasn’t made a single public statement that calms people about their financial status. Unless they’re inexplicably keeping their finances quiet, there is little choice but to conclude that they can’t afford the long haul of sports ownership. Having to move or contract a new team a few years after it began was not a rousing success in Miami, so why would it be desirable now?
At this point, Portland might be the only bid I trust at all, and even that has small-market questions attached. I wish Garber’s zeal to expand was instead directed in improving league-wide quality, but that ain’t happening.
eugene, expect an announcement either this month or february. its that close.
there is absolutely no reason for mls to “put expansion on hold” or any indication that they will do so. they announced that there will be 18 teams for 2011. period. if they go back on that promise, then the $80 million or so that the league was going to get from the two winning bids to buy in is gone. no way mls turns their backs on $80 million.
how is one arm tied behind our backs? i have absolutely no idea how anyone can come to that conclusion. do you mean the fiu stadium? they are only playing there for half a decade at most (and for free). the only problem with fiu is field turf, but seattle’s stadium has field turf and they got a team. same with toronto. or do you mean barcelona’s involvement? how could the involvement of one of the largest, and arguably best (at the moment) team in the world be a detrement? barcelona is a very stable, very rich organization that has been in the game for over 100 years. you want something that solid when expanding in a recession. miami’s ownership group is by far the best compared to philly and st. louis. i cant believe thats even under debate.
That last comment was for Garret and Eugene – Cam too but directed mainly at the mind readers Garret and Eugene. I’m sure they knew that already.
Cam and Eugene – Are you secretly Barcelona board members? Do you have direct insight on how they think? Are you their finacial advisers? Shrinks? How can you speak for them? Do you have any historical references that would point to them doing anything similar to backing out on a investment like this? It’s like saying I don’t believe Arthur Blank will stick it out in Atlanta if that team were to tank it. Who are you to compare what’s in Paul Allen’s mind and what’s in Barca’s mind? That argument is simply rediculous. Sound like a Fox “News” report. By the way, ever heard of Marcelo Claure? Guys, like I’ve been saying and CAm repeated….check out google.
Here’s a little link already showing the foundation building and commitment of Barca in the Miami scene:
http://www.soccercampmiami.com/
Sign me up CAM, I’ll take that bet. There won’t be a Miami team in 2010.
MLS is pragmatic if anything. There is no burning need to expand, so if the impact on expansion considerations from the economy is significant enough then expansion will be put on hold.
Why does MLS have to have a Miami team with one arm tied behind its back in 2010? How is that good for the league? Better to hold off until Miami can put together a better proposal. And this is not to pick on Miami — if that’s the best bid, then the other ones won’t get done either.
Just consider that Philly had a stadium plan with state funding and a group of very deep pocket investors when it was announced. And now that deal may be in trouble. Seattle didn’t have a SSS plan, but there was a historical connection between MLS and Seattle and the Seattle ownership group boasted a billionaire plus other big money investors. If people believe Miami is like Seattle, I just don’t see that Barca have any reason to be as committed as Paul Allen or Joe Roth.
eugene, the plans are on hold. this is common knowledge. do your own google search.
and as for fiu… the reason why they are playing there instead of somewhere else down here is because fiu is offering free rent. doesnt really matter, it is only a temporary solution anyway.
there will be a team in miami owned by claure and barcelona in 2010. that team will move into a sss no later than 2015. thats a very safe bet.
All of you who say that history or heritage is not a strong enough rationale for an MLS team, I’ve got one thing to say.
Not having an MLS team in St. Louis, the home of the Herman Trophy, would be the same thing as not having the Jets or the Giants in the home of the Heisman Trophy.
‘Nuff said.
“And as one poster already noted, you can’t sell beer in the stadium — how many other sources of revenue will be restricted?”
I assume the college will take the parking revenue as well and the team will have to pay for the additional security for the matches.
I just don’t see Barca sticking around when it gets tough and they’re bleeding money because there isn’t a profitable revenue stream. Miami is anything but a sure bet.
St. Louis just doesn’t have a solid ownership group and their stadium plan is bunk.
I think the guy meant ROUTE 40…not I-40. Lay off. Everybody around here calls it 40, not I-64, so it’s an easy mistake to make. And yes, 40 runs through the heart of the city.
It takes 8 minutes to get from the Mississippi to Collinsville.
I agree that a downtown STL stadium would be more awesomer (I wish that was proper English), but it’s just not realistic. They need a sprawling complex to make this thing viable and the land around the city is way too expensive.
Also, the downtown population is booming, contrary to a previous poster’s opinion.
Good luck Jeff! Thanks for the support Ives. I hope they unleash a couple more big owners before the decision.
For the Miami bid supporters here, please provide some evidence that the SSS is planned, approved, in motion or likely to happen. Because the last news I saw was that there was NO plan to build a SSS on the Orange Bowl site or anywhere else in or around Miami.
For the guys who believe FIU’s stadium is good enough, you’re missing the point of having a SSS stadium. The point of having soccer-specific stadiums is to maximize and control revenue from games, not pay rent, not have to schedule games around some other team, and to have a facility specifically-designed for this game. It’s a business decision intended to lead to profitability for clubs.
Location is important, but it’s not the reason to have the facility.
There is NO way that any of you guys can guarantee the field won’t have TV-visible lines on it when ESPN comes rolling around. There is NO way that any of you guys can guarantee that the team won’t be ripped up from football games just before a soccer game. And as one poster already noted, you can’t sell beer in the stadium — how many other sources of revenue will be restricted? Will Miami be viable from a business perspective?
Still a lot of questions about how deep ownership’s pockets are, certainly within league offices. Not sure I would place St. Louis above Vancouver. Nor Portland IF it can get its stadium situation cleared up.
Isn’t half the Miami population just a bunch of Guidos who moved down from Jersey? So, putting a franchise in Miami is kind of like having a second New York team, right?
😉
Really Ives? Is St. Louis the best place? Read this article, please. It is a blog by two DC United fans who give very fair, unbiased opinions on non-United related matters. Just please reconsider, all of you who have given St. Louis your votes of confidence based on history alone. Although amateurs, these guys raise some good points.
http://fightingtalker.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/my-questions-about-st-louis/
Travis in Miami –
I wasn’t dead wrong. I mistook that they weren’t building a new stadium and just expanding the old one through an article I had read. Still it doesn’t matter. They can barely get 45K to a Dolphin game unless they’re having a winning season. The Heat didn’t have good attendance until Shaq showed up. They’re miles better this year than last and down 2.5K per game this year from last. Let’s not even talk about Marlin attendance. A half empty stadium during the NL Pennant is enough proof.
Doesn’t matter if there is a large immigrant population there. It’s too hot for them to care about outdoor things when there are 10,000 other things to do in that town. Plus they’re going to be competing with the Marlins for fans to attend since the seasons run at the same time.
My guess is Miami won’t average 10K a game if you took out any game involving David Beckham. He’ll probably be retired or still in Milan when 2011 rolls around anyway.
Let’s be clear here too. There aren’t any plans to build a SSS in Miami. There is a loose idea that it might happen, but if they can’t draw at FIU there is no way the city is going to fork over a bunch of money to build a SSS.
Big soccer city. Cant happen soon enough for me.
I haven’t noticed a single comment discussing what I consider a very important factor to MLS….is Mr. Cooper’s St. Louis ownership group prepared to fork out $40 million as a franchise fee?
Montreal wasn’t prepared to pay that much for a franchise + make all the necessary upgrades to an EXISTING stadium.
St. Louis needs to build a whole new stadium from scratch (and the location for that stadium is less than stellar).
St. Louis certainly would be a nice place to put a team but I don’t think their overall bid is as strong as the Vancouver or Miami bids. You’ve got SERIOUS money with ready-to-move-in facilities already in place. That has got to be a major bonus for bids in these dodgy economic times.
Feel free to disagree but I’ve got some serious doubts about the financial wherewithall of the St. Louis bid.
Sharmon & KC–
Sharmon, if I read you correctly, you’re not refuting my “charged” characterization of St Louis as inaccurate. Rather, you’re saying that racism exists in other cities, perhaps even in Chicago.
Profound insight. Truly.
KC–quick suggestion: read ALL posts before you submit your drivel. That I confused the interstates was brought up–and I freely admitted it– about 4 hrs ago. But congrats on the sloppy seconds…, or thirds.
Now boys, don’t go and get your panties in a bunch: the only thing I’m saying is that while I never, ever want to live in St Louis again, I fully endorse their bid for a MLS franchise.
there are a lot of misconceptions about the miami bid here.
1. miami didnt fail as a city. the fusion were placed in fort lauderdale, about an hour away from their fan base, and just as they started to win and draw fans the ownership group went under. miami averaged 11k in their last season. the fusion did a darn good job despite all they were up against.
2. the stadium. fiu ensures us that the pitch will NOT have visible football gridiron lines. also, there most certainly is a sss proposed for miami. it is planned to be built alongside the new marlins stadium at the site of the orange bowl. because mls didnt award an expansion team to miami last year, the city is making us wait until the marlins stadium is complete before they start construction on the new sss right next to it… i guess because they dont want to pay to build two stadiums at the same time??? im not sure. but thats the situation. do some research, ousiders.
as for st louis being a better location for a team… ok… which metropolitan area is the largest market in the country without an mls team? miami or st. louis? which city would you (and the rest of the world) consider to be more cosmopolitan? which city has more foreign born soccer fans… you know, the people who follow the euro leagues that mls is dying to attract?
yes, because of its soccer roots or whatever and overall decent sports fans st. louis deserves a team. they always did, and its downright weird that they dont have one yet. im not trying to put st louis down. in fact, i hope they get in along with miami. for that matter, i hope portland and vancouver get their own teams one day as well. but lets be real here. ives, with all due respect, you can write an article like this about every one of the bids (well, maybe not atlanta…). miami is in, time to come to grips with reality.
oh, and one more thing… in case you haven’t noticed, we’re in a pretty big economic crisis right now. this is precicely the time to bring in a billionaire owner. haven’t we learned anything from philly yet?
Voodoo wrote…”Collinsville is called a “suburb” in the article, when while I lived there, it was a different, and wholly autonomous town. I know St Louis very well (or at least I did 25 years ago) but I couldn’t even give you directions to Collinsville from downtown other than “…get on I-40 and head east….”
Umm I-40 doesn’t even run through the state of Missouri. For someone who lived in St Louis you should know that.
Garrett – you are dead wrong. The stadium is already built and they are planning expansions in the coming years. It really takes minimal effort to look up things on the internet before posting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIU_Stadium
Two things.
First, Ives, many thanks for the post. Well put.
Next @Voodoo, so many charged statements in your St. Louis characterization I’m not sure where to begin. Toon is right though, St. Louis has changed quite a bit in the last 20 years and continues to. You also act as though white flight was a StL phenomenon. I need only to look north to Chicago to see much of the same. White flight is a major factor in the suburb growth in much of the US, not solely localized to StL.
“I consider it an embarrassment to MLS that St. Louis wasn’t an original MLS city. It’s the most storied soccer town in this country bar none.”
1. No owner/investor at the time MLS was launched
2. No place for a soccer team to play at the time MLS was launched– old Busch Stadium was a baseball park, and the TWA Dome was indoors.
So if there’s any embarrassment, it’s not on the part of MLS, it should be on the part of the city of Saint Louis for not having anyone willing to step up to the plate, or not having even a barely acceptable stadium.
That said, I hope they get a team.
I wouldn’t really say that st.louis has the best soccer history bar none, it may have the slight edge on the new york new jersey area but the high school, college, and academies in the metro area is one of the tops.
The ‘league’ didn’t award any city. There were a few owners who took the HUGE risk of restarting a major association footbal league with their own money. Why wouldn’t the Hunts and others go where they wished.
Why does it seem impossible to have a balanced viewpoint?
Jones71: Miami isn’t going to have a SSS. They’re going to play at Florida International University’s football stadium. FIU is planning on building a new stadium and then they will play there. Ask Real Salt Lake how that worked out and ask their fans how they liked being there. My guess is that the response will not be positive.
Huge money maker is beer. They can’t sell beer that costs them 38 cents to pour in a plastic cup for $8.00 a pint because they’re going to be on a college campus and that’s illegal.
I’m so glad that some can have great political, economic AND soccer minds all at the same time…..none of the above.
Thanks for the great article Ives…much better than a ‘few’ of your posters.
St. Louis is not a bad idea – it’s a solid, but unexciting idea. I agree with past posters that would prefer the Wizards moving there rather than an expansion franchise being awarded.
Looking forward at the next 10 years of the MLS, what stars are going to want to play in St. Louis (or Portland or Ottawa)? Particularly after ensuing CBA’s and their higher salary caps allow the league to compete more for top talent? For the long term future of the league any new teams need to be in big cities/Big TV markets.
I also think the MLS pulling out of Miami years back was a mistake, just like awarding founding teams to Kansas City and Columbus was a mistake. This league is certainly not without its missteps.
And my understanding of the Miami’s SSS plan is that it will be at the Orange Bowl site, but the city/county is contractually prevented from going forward with the project until the Florida Marlin’s baseball stadium is completed (good lawyering on the part of the Marlins’ ownership). So at the earliest, it’s 3 or 4 years out.
It’s understandable people not living in Miami have no idea about the bid. I don’t know much about the bids coming out of Portland or Vancouver.
The person who posted “unless they put the stadium right next door to Mansion (tourist trap) or Deko (???), MLS Miami will draw highschool basketball numbers” is a perfect example of posting without having any knowledge of what they are talking about. I promise you that the Miami team is not looking to lure weekenders hitting the clubs in South Beach as season ticket holders.
The stadium is smack dab in the middle of the target audience. You can check it out on google, map it, check out the demographics and you will have your answer as to why an already approved SSS will not be a neccesity in this case. (A SSS is likely to be included in the development in the area of the old Orangebowl, where the new Marlins stadium will be).
Furball, I can’t say I agree that Philly is a sure thing to fail. Last I heard, they had already sold 6k or 7k season tickets I think?
One gripe with what Cooper said: “The truth is in MLS you don’t need billionaires to operate these franchises,” Cooper said. “You’re limited as to what you can spend on your payroll and on your club.”
You may not be able to spend an unlimited amount on money, but an ownership group with a lot of money can spend a lot of money on advertising and build a community presence which isn’t cheap, as well as investing in a DP.
Big caveat though…big money alone doesn’t mean spending on advertising. Look at RBNY which has done squat in the area so far. So maybe he’s right
First – I’m guessing the reason Voodoo (mistakenly) called it I-40 instead of I-70 is because US 40 shares the same road with I-70 just east of the city and indeed, at Collinsville. When you get to St Louis itself, US 40 shares the road with I-64 through St Louis County.
It’s true that Collinsville is only about 12-15 miles from the Arch, but the problem is that not that many people live near the Arch. Large parts of downtown St Louis are ghost towns (some are on their way back…but that was before the recent economic crunch). The bulk of St Louis residents, particularly those that are responsible for the strong youth system…St Charles, Chesterfield, Creve Coeur, Ballwin, are another 15-30 miles west of the city center.
Add to that, the fact that the stretch of I-70/US 40 from St Louis to Collinsville runs through East St Louis, by the Gateway Speedway racetrack, a landfill, and then gets rural really fast before hitting Collinsville. It’s kinda like driving on the NJ Turnpike when you get near the Meadowlands.
So, you’re talking about a 30-40 mile drive for a lot of the soccer family-type fans to get to a game in Collinsville. That could be a decent detractor in my opinion. I really want St Louis to get a team, and think they should, but I’m not sure Collinsville is the answer.
So Cooper is going to “hold back the big-money guys”, eh?
You mean like Bob Kraft? Stan Kroenke? Jorge Vergara?
Yeah, those guys really lay out the cash and the effort for their MLS franchises. I guess you’re right….
Public funding seems to be a main reason you think St. Louis should be in.
Does your opinion then change when Portland secures their public funding?
This looks likely to happen.
When it does, you get a publicly funded stadium plan, a central downtown location, a great soccer tradition and a proven fan base.
When that shoe falls, where does Portland stack up?
unless they put the stadium right next door to Mansion or Deko, MLS Miami will draw highschool basketball numbers. I bet Miami highschool football games will be better attended than any MLS game in Miami not involving David Beckham
Sadly, MLS is goiong to expand faster than they can generate/retain talent.
Portland would be great as far as expanding the soccer culture in America. As far as market size St. Louis is #20 and Portland is #25. That’s negligible considering St. Louis is not growing and Portland is widely accepted to grow by at least 1 million people in the next 10 years.
It takes years to create a culture around a team. Already Portland has close to 9,000 die hards. It already has a stadium downtown with easy public transportation and it can easily and cheaply be turned soccer specific. Last hurdle is the public funding and considering the mayor is for it as well as several commissioners it looks to be a solid deal provided there are no twists. There is a solid ownership group in the Paulsons and that is something that St. Louis has a huge problem with.
Guys…STL will draw fans and good ones at that. I expect the same amount of support that Seattle will get early on. Then it is up to the club to put out a decent project. St Louis and KC will develope a nice rivalry too. KC will get going when it gets its new stadium. There are fans there too.
If managed correctly Atlanta could do well but that is a big if.
Miami already failed and I understand the population argument but if that were really true why do the Marlins always have empty stadiums with that large Cuban population? Because while most immigrants enjoy the game… they enjoy feeding their families more…
i continue to believe that miami would be a terrible franchise regardless of billions poured into it. i just don’t really believe it would have a strong fan base.
St. Louis deserves a team.
The Gwinnett area for Blanks MLS Team seems to be out of the question. They are currently building the Minor League Baseball Stadium out there, too tied up with that. GM Plant site makes the most sense over Kenn State. That would be awful.
Go rent The Miracle Match or The Game of Their Lives, this will explain some of the St. Louis area history.
MLS is ridiculous. Miami is where professional sports go to die. Any pro sports team in that town is second or third fiddle to the city and its nitelife. Give St. Louis a team or maybe they think in 3 years when MLS Miami/Barca folds like the Fusion, they will just move that team to St. Louis. SLC gets a team before St. Louis? Really?
Can someone explain the history of soccer and St. Louis? Why is it so popular?
Jason Toon,
I’ll cop to being Van Winkle, but honestly, you’ve only helped my argument.
Thanks for proving my second point about racism in St Louis; namely, the city (not the burbs) elect democratic mayors because it is overwhelmingly African-American.
As someone that hasn’t been following soccer all that long, can someone explain to me what makes St. Louis such a great soccer city? Where does this tradition that everyone talks about come from?
I’m not doubting St. Louis as a soccer city. I’m just not very informed, and would love a quick tutorial.
Cooper’s point with the money talk is that we’re not talking about NFL-sized budgets here. Even before the new unannounced investors were added, Cooper’s group was better capitalized than four or five others in MLS.
@Voodoo –
Of course St. Louis has changed a lot since the 1980s. Wake up, Van Winkle. Oh, and unlike New York City, this “conservative” town always elects Democratic mayors.
“True soccer fans”? Unfortunately for you, MLS needs to reach out to many different types of soccer fans.
St. Louis is a crap shoot. They do not have a history of supporting professional soccer. I don’t care how large their soccer community is. It doesn’t translate into success at the gate. MLS is already wishing they wouldn’t have given Philly a team which is about a sure thing to fail. Portland and Vancouver both have histories of supporting soccer no matter the level of play. Not only do both Portland and Vancouver have successful USL franchises, they also have their own PDL teams. MLS can not afford another Miami, Tampa, KC, New England, disaster. They need guaranteed full stadiums like Seattle, Portland and Vancouver can guarantee.