Today is the deal Major League Soccer announces the list of candidates to be among the two cities to receive MLS expansion teams by 2011 and Tuesday say several of the candidates revealed.
Here are cities whose bids have been revealed or reported as having been submitted already:
Two cities missing from that list are New York and Las Vegas. No word on whether those groups have submitted bids yet or if they are waiting until today’s 5pm deadline to put a bid in.
Two weeks ago I asked you which cities you thought should be up for the next two MLS expansion slots and Portland and St. Louis were the winners in the poll (though it should be noted that fans from both cities set up voting drives to stuff the SBI ballot box). It wasn’t a real surprise to see Montreal finish third. Interestingly enough, Atlanta and Las Vegas finished last in the voting, not Ottawa. I have a feeling that large contingent of SBI readers in Canada took care of their own because there is no way Ottawa should be considered ahead of Miami or Atlanta.
MLS will reveal the finalized list of expansion candidates after 5pm today, when we will learn if the Wilpons have decided against MLS expansion in New York, or if it is getting ready to win what should be a fierce battle for two (and perhaps four) upcoming MLS expansion slots.
What do you think of the cities that have applied? Share your thoughts below.
woops… i meant vancouver and montreal.
Chros- I am hoping that either St. Louis or Portland get one of the 2 franchises. I especially feel that St. Louis is deserving because of their history of being a true soccer city but did not know if they could meet the criteria.Montreal is the only one of the canidates that clearly fits both criteria.
Thanks for the info. on their plans for soccer specific stadium. Now I hope they get it.
I just worry about the conservative MLS suddenly falling in love, ignoring its values and going with sexy, trendy picks over true soccer supporting communities like a St. Louis or a Portland. That’s why the Miami/Barca and Atlanta scenarios really worry me. May the MLS stick to its conservative nature and ignore them in this round of expansion.
KC should move to STL. they can’t even sell out their 10,000 seat stadium consistently this year. i’m not saying that those less-than-10,000 aren’t great fans, but really… that is ridiculous. KC has had a team for how long? STL couldn’t possible draw fewer fans than KC.
KC at the little baseball stadium is a joke. KC with an entire half of the stadium is an ad or a automobile stage is a joke (“Hey, let’s add more tents to make it look like more folks are here. Any other space filler ideas?”) LA visiting arrowhead was joke. i watched for three minutes and couldn’t stand the pigskin lines.
anyway, KC moving to STL solves one problem. after that, my vote for expansion teams would be: ottowa and montreal… simply for the revenue aspect that someone eluded to in an earlier post.
i love, love, love the timbers and my heart screams for them to get a team, but i feel like the time will come.
nyc2 would be/will be fantastic and i can’t wait for the NYC v NJ rivalry that will stem from a 2nd team.
no atlanta or las vegas. both are too hot and too uncertain in terms of fanbase, and neither are great sports towns (UNLV and Braves notwithstanding).
miami…pfft, does barca want a vactation site for their players/coaches/etc. sorry, i don’t trust a superclub bid for reasons i stated earlier.
(also, CUSA should move to San Diego)
problem solved?
Regarding Portland, Portland State will be a tenant of a Soccer-Specific Stadium, like high school football uses the HDC. Portland’s metro area bigger than Columbus, Kansas City, Salt Lake and is comparable to Denver. The stadium will only be an issue if it negatively affects revenue but Paulson I’m sure knows what he’s doing in that regard.
PGE’s not shiny and new but the fact it’s not shiny and new is an asset in my opinion – adds a lot to the atmosphere. And, it will be further renovated if Portland’s ball is drawn in the expansion lottery.
Relegation aside, I can’t help but feel that MLS and USL are missing out by not being affiliated in some way right now.
I mean, it’s pretty clear right now that Ottawa is not going to get an MLS team, yet according to the potential owner: “We’ve had 7,000 supporters alone register on our website,” added Melnyk. “Thirty one soccer clubs from the heart of our region have come on board, including Ottawa South United, one of the largest clubs in Canada. In addition, the Ontario Soccer Association and the Eastern Ontario Soccer Association, the governing bodies for soccer in Ottawa and the province, are giving us a vote of confidence.”
Assuming Montreal is one of the teams selected for MLS, this would be a perfect opportunity to have a scaled down Plan B to add Ottawa into the USL as a replacement.
Selfishly I would like Vancouver and Portland, but it is going to come down to who has the best money package to offer the league.
For balance purposes one of the teams should be a west coast team. The thing that is going to hurt Portland is the size of the city and the stadium.
I think the League should choose NY (If there is a bid) and Miami. Barcelona is just too big for MLS to pass up, but then again I don’t want Barcelona to use this as some sort of minor league for their players. Queens NY would be a great place for Soccer and it would help attract DP and bring in the attention that MLS needs.
Atlanta is also interesting. I wouldn’t want a team in Las Vegas too many temptations in that place.
PORTLAND 2011 !!!
any some other club
Well with the upcoming expansions I only hope they switch to the Single Table standings. East vs West doesn’t really work in football.
I’m scared that Portland won’t get a team.
As it is their “dual-sport” stadium is really more of a soccer stadium with dugouts and no seats on one side, and could be converted relatively easily. It’s historical, centrally located, near public transport. You already see Timbers gear on the MAX after the game is over. But really it is about the support – the Timbers should not have any trouble with attendance. Finally, the rivalry with the Sounders is one that MLS doesn’t have to “force” at all.
MLS is going to go where they will make money, and it will be interesting to see if the “Timbers” model – which I think would be similar to putting a new NHL team in Canada – can beat out the glitz of the Barça bid.
I think MLS’ best options would be Portland and Montréal for the fan support, derbies, infrastructure and keeping a lid on the USL. I’m sold on Vancouver as well, but not over Portland. Problem is, you have reknown in Miami, a new market to develop in Atlanta, and St. Louis’ team is long overdue… the decision they make will ultimately determine if they’re keen on developing soccer-specific infrastructure in a large market at risks of support (see Dallas’s attendance) or supporting areas where soccer has a chance become the #1 sport regionally (Soccer City USA).
Finally the MLS needs to sit down and review their future league structure. I’m sure they have a plan in place but having a league of even 24 teams just doesn’t seem viable for soccer in the USA. Still, the fact that all the bids are as good as they are shows that people are willing to invest in the product. MLS has some growing to do but it certainly seems as if it will live up to its “Major League” billing.
I am not too happy with Portland as I once was.
After watching a few of FCD’s games with throwball markings still very visable on the field, I can only imagine it will be the same way in Portland.
Portland will also have a hard time controlling iit’s own schedule. Portland st pointyball will take control, because they will say they make more money on Saturday night’s.
I’ve seen a few comments about MLS ultimately ending up with 22 or 24 teams. Doesn’t FIFA set an upper limit of 20 teams for a National League?
Of course, the inclusion of Canadian franchises already ignores FIFA, so maybe MLS isn’t too worried about it.
Also, if you want to get rid of the USL Silverbacks, that stadium could easily be expanded, is about 15 minutes north of downtown, and there is the long term plan to push is to about 17,500, so that could help the SSS angle. But I’m not so sure how much the ownership group there would be down with it.
Hello fellow SBI readers and posters!
Firstly let me say that it is really exciting that Seattle and Philly are coming on board with teams and they have managed to sell lots of season ticket deposits already!!
I can reassure you that there is a lot of work being done behind the scences to get both Vancouver and Montreal as the next two named franchises.
One very big reason for this is…(and i stress big) is with Vancouver and Montreal coming on board it provides a National TV AD Revenue that can blanket the country(Canada) from coast to coast. With that windfall of ad revenue, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will provide a big surge in PROFITS for the league! Just look at what National Advertising Revenue does for the League in the United States in terms of dollars..
The financial foundation that having both Vancouver and Montreal in the MLS will provide is unmatched by the other applicants. Portland, Miami, St Louis, NYC2 will all be looked at as possible slots for numbers 19 and 20.
The cities of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto are all working with Major Advertisers, TV Networks, MLS and SUM(Soccer United Marketing) in making this a reality.
The league has to think about TV revenues/ratings so that rules out all the Canadians (ESPN isn’t paying for Canadian eyeballs!). Logically, then, the choices should be Miami and Atlanta. To my mind, though, Miami can’t support a soccer franchise (tried and failed) even with Barca support. So I’d give the second franchise to Portland — great soccer town and the closest thing to the “Toronto model” in the US. If St. Louis/Las Vegas want soccer so badly they can steal a team from Columbus/KC !
Just my .02 worth…
1. New York
2. Montreal
3. Ottawa
4. Next best proposal (maybe Miami)
I think the league is still too young to focus on national footprint over local success. With local and team specific revenue still the major driver of financial success those need to be the criteria for picking an expansion franchise. Given that Montreal seems like a no brainer, with an easily expandable stadium, a rabid fan base and a natural rival in TFC they seem to be the easiest pick in this bunch. Some will argue that the MLS was founded to strengthen the U.S game but a stronger Canadian program will benefit us as well.
Using the same criteria I think the second choice is either Portland or Vancouver. Both have strong fan bases and a built in rival in Seattle which would make that team stronger as well. Neither has a stadium in place but both have well founded stadium plans that involve a central location served by mass transit.
Ulrich,
WTF are you talking about? Do you realize that MLS isn’t the first league with teams from two countries? And you know that MLS is the FIFA recognized first division for the US and Canada. FIFA knows about this and they sanctioned it, so saying its against FIFA rules just doesn’t fly.
Other leagues with teams from other countries include England Football League, A-League (Australia), and Ligue 1 (France).
I like the ownership angle of Arthur Blank, think he can get a stadium set up (maybe somewhere out in gwinnett (suburb, 30-40 minutes northeast of the city, and this is area is basically all metro anyway) by where the Braves are putting their AAA team next year.
But fan support worries me, and that’s why I don’t think they’ll win a team.
I just think that if MLS bypasses St. Louis AGAIN, a team that has had all of its stuff together for a while now, it sets a very bad precedent. Going to a city (Atlanta) solely because it is a big market does not mean automatic success by any means. See: New York and Boston.
i think Montreal should have it. It would create an instant “super classico” sponsored by Honda plus their SSS is already in place (just needs a tiny bit of seat expansion)
Atlanta could work if it is done the right way. They have a growing hispanic population plus MLS needs exposure in that market
Justin O, that’s just my opinion on Ottawa. I hate it as a candidate. It boils down to this. It won’t be two Canadian cities getting bids and there is NO way Ottaway beats out Montreal, which it is close to.
At this point it looks like St. Louis, Portland and Montreal are the people’s choices and I think any of them would be great, but I also happen to love the possibilities of a Barcelona-backed team in Miami as well as a second New York team. Hell, I also like Atlanta, which happens to be the biggest market for SBI readers among non-MLS cities/areas. There are soccer fans down there. That’s six markets that could push MLS to 22 teams. As for Vancouver, Ottawa and Las Vegas? Eh, not so much.
Count me as against ATL & Miami. I just don’t have the confidence that they can draw people. I’m looking at this as purely a fan so #1 in my mind is fan support followed by SSS (vice versa depending on the day).
I’m of the mindset that a strong TV audience will come from strong fan support at the stadium. Watching games on TV from frisco, KC, NE, NY, and Chivas with low attendance doesnt get me into a game nearly as much as watching other teams with strong fan support.
If someone scores a goal in Miami, and no one is there to see it, is it really a goal?
And for a counter point, having people passionately hate a Barcelona FC Miami franchise might be good for Miami (although, I’m still against it). But if you really hate a team and are always against them, then you are more likely to watch the game than if you are indifferent to the team.
Adam M- i am hoping in the long run the MLS wont have to rely on DP’s…. big names will go where the money is in the long run
I never can get over the comments from some who think that buying into this league and then building a stadium and this and that is so easy? If you have big company’s (FC Barcelona, Microsoft) that want to buy into this league and make a financial commitment then by all means we should be letting them in!!!! Lets worry about all the small details 20 years from now when this league is actually established…its been around 13 years and is just now gaining a foothold in this country.
Tom P,
I feel like Portland is very close to having its stadium turned into a true SSS for opening day, and St. Louis has a stadium ready to be built as soon as it gets the go-ahead. With St. Louis, the only problem is getting people to cross the river into Illinois and stop watching the Cardinals, but St. Louis is in many ways like Salt Lake. There is a huge soccer following there that can be converted into dedicated fans.
I’m an American in the south, so logically Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis should be my favorite options based on geography alone.
However, I’m so impressed by Toronto’s fans, that I’m for two more Canadian franchises. From what I’ve seen, Toronto has the best fans in all of MLS. They are extremely good for the league. I don’t know if this can be replicated in Montreal, Vancouver, or Ottawa, but personally I hope that at least one of these cities gets a team (screw FIFA).
I’m thoroughly opposed to NY2, and I’d love for Portland to get a team because of the Timbers fans. I’m skeptical of Miami like many others are (for the same reasons and because the way that the Fusion died.) I’m also interested in MLS giving Las Vegas their first pro sports team. There are many good options, and it will be exciting to see how this turns out.
As Faux Fur said, having a Barca branded team will just polarize fans. It’s not like there is some overwhelming amount of Barca fans in the U.S. to begin with. If Chivas didn’t work, I don’t think Barca will either.
It should come down to 2 things and 2 things only:
1. 100% assurance that a soccer specific stadium will be in place on opening day.
2. Proven track record of fan support of local soccer product.
All the other stuff that people may want to factor in is just sexy fluff. We are still selling 2nd tier soccer for many years to come at the end of the day and we must choose markets who realize and embrace that going into deal.
Based on that Montreal is the only of the 7 candidates who completely meets both of the above criteria.
Anyone disagree?
I don’t know how viable/popular an Atlanta franchise would be, but if Arthur Blank thinks it could work, I’m on board. As for our chances, well, the man gets what he wants. Plus, it would be awesome.
I agree with Chros, having other teams in Canada is not a big deal. Eventually there is going to be 24 teams in this league with divisons and 2 conferences…and no there will never be promotion/relegation so get over it. I think right now the 2 choices should be Miami and Vancouver, with St. Louis a close second. I just don’t see how that team can succeed when they don’t have any wealthy owner to back them up. Also Portland has no stadium and Ottawa is just not a good choice.
count me against the barca/miami deal. not that it doesn’t sound attractive, it does. but this precedence of big clubs buying into mls is short-sighted. at it’s base level you have a big company where, if a club in miami (or future superclub+mls team) folds, it’s no skin of their backs. it also has the potential for a really disconnected ownership. will barcausa run when they can’t run things like they do in spain?
i don’t know. this sounds really fun and flashy but seems like it does has the ptoential for some serious issues. why is barca interested in this other than the money? why aren’t they considering building a stadium right off the bat- they have the dough? a stadium would show some kind of investment on their part.
i don’t know, once the excitement of having a european superclub interested in the mls washes away, i think there are some serious questions here.
mls doesn’t need the barca brand. it will survive without it.
Ives,
MLS couldn’t possibly OK a “Barcelona USA” style branding could they?? I don’t like the idea of a Miami team as it is, but that type of branding will always alienate more people than it attracts. They instantly remove fans of Real Madrid or any other La Liga team from their potential fanbase. Who’s to say the Argentinians in the area would get involved with a Barcelona sister-club? Or anyone with loyalties to any other international club for that matter?
The Don has to be smart enough to avoid another Chivas move, right?!
Personally, I would be very surprised if it wasn’t some combination of St. Louis, Portland, Montreal. None of the other bids stack up to those — unless something new comes out.
Atlanta seems like the logical choice to me, as well. Most of the cities in the southeast have trouble with fan support, but Atlanta is in some ways the “capitol of the south.” Like, the Braves are essentially the team for Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and South Carolina.
At least one of the expansion teams will be canadian — bank on it.
Everyone notes TFC’s success… it also means that TFC has the ability to influence the direction of the next expansion.
They want at least another Canadian side, if not 2, to be able to increase the visibility of soccer in Canada. Having Vancouver and Montreal in would give them a great boost in getting greater TV rights (something Garber discussed in Toronto during the All-Star game). Being alone in Canada doesn’t further the potential of TFC.
For my own selfish reasaons my hope is that Atlanta gets a franchise. It’s the largest market/region that is untapped. The only issue is if there could be enough fan support. I could easily see attendance numbers be as bad as Kansas City if they do not start out in a SSS.
The good thing is that Arthur Blank would be a savy owner.
there needs to be an mls franchise in the south and atlanta is the perfect place for one.
Ulrich,
Are you arguing that TFC has not been good for the league? TFC has given a whole new dimension to the league and a cornerstone that other expansion teams have to live up to now. Look at Seattle and Philly, there is so much hype for both teams because of the standard that TFC set.
And not to belabor the point, but Cardiff City and Swansea are both Welsh teams that play in the English FA. Cardiff nearly won England’s FA Cup last year. It’s not that big of a deal.
I agree Ottawa is not exactly the ideal market on the surface, but “no way” Ottawa should be considered over Atlanta or Miami, without even reading the fine print on the three cities’ proposals?
Adding another team to New York doesn’t make sense right now. The United States is bigger than the east and west coast. St. Louis and Chicago already have fierce rivalries in other sports that are sure to translate to MLS.
For Miami, I don’t like any deal unless there is a soccer specific stadium already in the works. Some of these expansion teams already have the go-ahead as long as they get the team. Philly was like that, so is St. Louis. It doesn’t matter how much money Barca has because so much is going to come down to acquiring the right location, I’m sure they’ll try to beg for public funding; there’s a lot more that goes into getting a SSS than simply a rich owner.
As a TFC supporter I would love Vancouver and Montreal.
But for the good of the game in North America (MLS/USL1) I belive the two choices should be NY2 and Miami. All the rest should join or stay USL1!
The idea of adding another Canadian team to MLS is a bit of a joke. FIFA mandates that separate countries have separate leagues; inclusion of TFC was an ad hoc suspension of the rules by FIFA to help MLS grow. It doesn’t make sense with future expansion since it is very obvious there are additional MLS markets that can field teams, and if there are more Canadian markets that are viable options, then Canada should begin to look at the option of creating their own league (TFC, the A-league Canadian Teams, & any future expansion teams that want into MLS).
Future MLS expansion should only be for US teams (this isn’t being jingoistic – just abiding by FIFA regulations).
It’s just hard because ideally you would have St. Louis, Portland, Montreal, Vancouver and at least one team in the southeast, but under the MLS structure there are going to be at least a few very promising soccer markets that will never get a team.
I’ve never heard it mentioned except on SBI comments, but moving Chivas to either Las Vegas or San Diego makes the most sense to me. Also, it’s so hard to follow the stadium updates in KC, whether it is being build right now or not, but as somebody who just spent four years living in Missouri I know that putting a SSS in the KC suburbs isn’t going to make the Wizards any more appealing. Kansas City is a Chiefs town, and the population just isn’t set up to be a major soccer supporter.
New York and Miami should get the spots. Other cities can make good cases, but a second New York team (in Queens) is just too important to the long-term growth of the league, particularly given that New York is likely to attract top-quality DP talent that other cities cannot. The same can be said for Miami. MLS cannot lightly disregard a partnership with Barca, a relationship that surely will resolve past problems in that city.
I’m not sold on the idea of another Canadian team right now given the large untapped (and not tapped enough) markets in the U.S. I’m also wary of adding more sides in the Pacific Northwest until Seattle has a few years under its belt. As for Vegas, I think the economic problems the country is going through now are a bad omen for a city that so heavily depends on a good economy just to get by.
With Arthur Blank leading the way, I am liking Atlanta’s chances. A lot.
I understand that Barca’s branding will bring in a number of fans. However, how are they going to do in the middle of summer, in the midst of 4 hurricanes, day game?
If they had an indoor stadium, I could see them doing well. I just dont see them doing well for the league until then.
sticking with Portland and STL…. i know STL isnt as nice as Miami, but perhaps Barca should’ve just backed them financially… they already have a stellar youth development program…. system is already in full swing, just need the $$$
Ives, do you think the Miami expansion, headed by Barca head Joan Laporta is a shoo in for a team? I mean can MLS really afford to pass on the Barcelona brand. Also, im not sure Miami is a place for pro sports. Every sports team in that city seems to have a lot of people dressed as empty seats at events. What is it with the culture down there? Is it just people rather go to the Delano or on South Beach. If so, cant fault them for that, but it seems if Barcelona would be better served to hit a location who fan support doesnt chage with the seasons. I could see Barcelona building their franchise as NY’s second team into a much more successful business than in S. Florida. Any thoughts?